Can you provide specific links to confirm this? I for one, am disgusted by Apple's constant obsession with making proprietary display connectors for which only they sell adapters. Sort of like Microsoft's "embrace, extend" policy towards open internet standards.
Steve said at the presentation that mini DP is an industry standard.
Apple created mini DVI and micro DVI to fit the thin notebook cases. Their was no other viable alternative. I'm sure Apple wanted VESA to adopt them as standards.
Ease of access doesn't matter. Why should Apple make things easier to access? Who in the world needs to take out a laptop hard drive or battery?
Making the hard drive easier to access would make the case weaker, so Apple would have to make the laptop thicker.
There will be no video iPod. Nobody wants to watch video on an iPod.
Apple will not make cell phones.
Apple will never switch to Intel processors.
A lot of people depend on the ability to take out the battery, usually to replace it with a spare on long trips. It's one of the main complaints about the Macbook Air. People also want an easy way to replace the hard drive. PC users always love to brag about being able to upgrade PC hardware with out pulling out a bunch of screws. Repair shops go crazy when they have to take a computer apart just to replace a failed drive. And probably most importantly, in 2 or 3 years, SSDs are going to be a cheap way to really boost performance, more so than simply adding RAM. An easily replaceable hard drive matters a whole lot, and it's evident from the latest updates that it doesn't make the case weaker and force more thickness. Hopefully the iMac gets its guts shuffled around during the next refresh, and if Apple ever gets around to updating the Mac mini, make it easier to open the damn thing. Using plastic tabs they way they did is just plain ridiculous.
Also, what's with the Apple will nevers? I thought those only worked on nay-sayers?
No Hybrid SLI. Apple is using only the power-saving features.
Screw hybrid SLI, I would rather see the 'real' GPU used for video & the integrated GPU be available, at the same time, for OpenCL number-crunching goodness...
Well look around. The entire notebook market is moving to smaller or thinner. Why use a bigger port if a smaller one will do the same job. Apple won't be the only one using the mini ports.
First Apple defenders praise Apple for "thinking different", not "following the crowd", and not belonging to the "herd". Now you defend Apple for doing exactly what you praised them for not doing. So basically, Apple can do no wrong no matter what. Is that it?
A lot of people depend on the ability to take out the battery, usually to replace it with a spare on long trips. It's one of the main complaints about the Macbook Air. People also want an easy way to replace the hard drive. PC users always love to brag about being able to upgrade PC hardware with out pulling out a bunch of screws. Repair shops go crazy when they have to take a computer apart just to replace a failed drive. And probably most importantly, in 2 or 3 years, SSDs are going to be a cheap way to really boost performance, more so than simply adding RAM. An easily replaceable hard drive matters a whole lot, and it's evident from the latest updates that it doesn't make the case weaker and force more thickness. Hopefully the iMac gets its guts shuffled around during the next refresh, and if Apple ever gets around to updating the Mac mini, make it easier to open the damn thing. Using plastic tabs they way they did is just plain ridiculous.
Also, what's with the Apple will nevers? I thought those only worked on nay-sayers?
By "nay-sayers", do you mean those Apple zealots who kept arguing against ease of access in Macs? The same people who dismiss ease of access just because they don't to have take things apart? The same people who argued that making Mac laptops easier to access would require "more internal bracing" which would require thicker laptops? How many times have people asked for easier to access Mac laptops? How many times have professional technicians and IT staff complained about Apple making it almost impossible to support their users, only to be dismissed by those Mac zealots? Where are those zealots now? Shouldn't they be complaining to Apple for making the new MacBook Pro easier to access? Despite those zealots arguing that ease of access means weaker and thicker cases, Apple says the new MacBook Pro is stiffer and thinner. So where are the zealots now? Did Apple just make them look like a bunch of idiots?
There will be no video iPods. Nobody wants to watch video on iPods.
First Apple defenders praise Apple for "thinking different", not "following the crowd", and not belonging to the "herd". Now you defend Apple for doing exactly what you praised them for not doing. So basically, Apple can do no wrong no matter what. Is that it?
I would say here needs to be a healthy balance between the two.
Sometimes its better for Apple to go its own way. That differentiates it from other computer manufacturers and allows them to sell their products. OS X as a proprietary operating system and working with chip manufacturers such as Intel and Nvidia to develop chips Apple needs to improve Mac performance is a good example of this.
Their are times when Apple joins with everyone in using open standards or industry approved standards that benefit the computer industry as a whole. Unix, webkit, AJAX, h.264, and AAC are good examples of that.
First Apple defenders praise Apple for "thinking different", not "following the crowd", and not belonging to the "herd". Now you defend Apple for doing exactly what you praised them for not doing. So basically, Apple can do no wrong no matter what. Is that it?
By "nay-sayers", do you mean those Apple zealots who kept arguing against ease of access in Macs? The same people who dismiss ease of access just because they don't to have take things apart? The same people who argued that making Mac laptops easier to access would require "more internal bracing" which would require thicker laptops? How many times have people asked for easier to access Mac laptops? How many times have professional technicians and IT staff complained about Apple making it almost impossible to support their users, only to be dismissed by those Mac zealots? Where are those zealots now? Shouldn't they be complaining to Apple for making the new MacBook Pro easier to access? Despite those zealots arguing that ease of access means weaker and thicker cases, Apple says the new MacBook Pro is stiffer and thinner. So where are the zealots now? Did Apple just make them look like a bunch of idiots?
There will be no video iPods. Nobody wants to watch video on iPods.
Many are using a notebook plugged into an LCD projector to give presentations.
An LCD projector which is predominantly used for computer-based presentations is equivalent to a computer monitor in the context of the original discussion (i.e. what type of video output connector should Apple laptops have?).
Something I still haven't worked out: with DisplayPort and an appropriate connector, will I be able to hook a new MB/P into an HDMI TV and get sound through it? It's a significant annoyance with the old mini-DVI that I can't.
Something I still haven't worked out: with DisplayPort and an appropriate connector, will I be able to hook a new MB/P into an HDMI TV and get sound through it? It's a significant annoyance with the old mini-DVI that I can't.
Yes.
Another win DisplayPort has over DVI is that it carries audio.
The new 24" display has built-in speakers and the audio is routed over the DisplayPort cable.
Something else I haven't seen mentioned is that DisplayPort has the potential to allow daisy-chained monitors.
So the MacBook loses one daisy-chainable interface, FireWire, and gains another that has the potential to be daisy-chained in the future. I'm not sure if support for that would be entirely up to software, though.
I'd now REALLY like to see a Mac Mini with a DisplayPort connector and finally the ability to support more than one monitor. I'll settle for a Mac Mini with two display connectors (maybe DVI-I *and* DisplayPort) that can be used at the same time, though.
Another win DisplayPort has over DVI is that it carries audio.
The new 24" display has built-in speakers and the audio is routed over the DisplayPort cable.
Something else I haven't seen mentioned is that DisplayPort has the potential to allow daisy-chained monitors.
So the MacBook loses one daisy-chainable interface, FireWire, and gains another that has the potential to be daisy-chained in the future. I'm not sure if support for that would be entirely up to software, though.
I'd now REALLY like to see a Mac Mini with a DisplayPort connector and finally the ability to support more than one monitor. I'll settle for a Mac Mini with two display connectors (maybe DVI-I *and* DisplayPort) that can be used at the same time, though.
In theory it can be daisy chained, but Apple has not released a mini display port to display port adaptor.
In theory it can be daisy chained, but Apple has not released a mini display port to display port adaptor.
At the moment there are so few devices with DisplayPort that there's little reason for an adaptor between it and Mini DisplayPort.
Considering that Apple's new 24" display uses a Mini DisplayPort connector, I'd expect Apple to standardize on that size connector across its entire product line, including pro displays and Mac Pros. I wouldn't be surprised to see the video cards on the Mac Pros get one full size DisplayPort connector and one Mini DisplayPort connector, though. At that point they'd release a DisplayPort to Mini DisplayPort adpater so you could hook up two Apple displays that used Mini DisplayPort.
If full size DisplayPort connectors get common enough Apple will surely release Mini DisplayPort to DisplayPort cables. If Mini DisplayPort becomes officially part of the 2.1 spec and many other manufacturers decide to adopt it then Apple may leave it up to third parties to make Mini DisplayPort to DisplayPort cables, much like Apple doesn't make DVI to HDMI cables themselves.
Personally I don't see the size/type of connector being used as that big of a deal. It's a lot like how DVI has multiple variations even in its full-size connectors, and how Apple's MacBooks and iMacs (and previously iBooks and the 12" PowerBook) have used Mini DVI.
At this point Apple can finally standardize across their whole line with a single display connector, rather than a mixed bag that wasn't even aligned along consumer/pro lines (the Mac Mini has full-size DVI; the original MacBook Air had Micro DVI).
Where I work, we use LCD monitors in some rooms instead of projectors. Especially the smaller conference rooms or those with very, very high ceilings.
They work great for presentations with small groups. Right now, nearly every laptop we connect is done with VGA. Only a handful we connect with DVI and those are Mac laptops, though most of them are connected VGA as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roehlstation
Many are using a notebook plugged into an LCD projector to give presentations.
Comments
Can you provide specific links to confirm this? I for one, am disgusted by Apple's constant obsession with making proprietary display connectors for which only they sell adapters. Sort of like Microsoft's "embrace, extend" policy towards open internet standards.
Steve said at the presentation that mini DP is an industry standard.
Apple created mini DVI and micro DVI to fit the thin notebook cases. Their was no other viable alternative. I'm sure Apple wanted VESA to adopt them as standards.
Ease of access doesn't matter. Why should Apple make things easier to access? Who in the world needs to take out a laptop hard drive or battery?
Making the hard drive easier to access would make the case weaker, so Apple would have to make the laptop thicker.
There will be no video iPod. Nobody wants to watch video on an iPod.
Apple will not make cell phones.
Apple will never switch to Intel processors.
A lot of people depend on the ability to take out the battery, usually to replace it with a spare on long trips. It's one of the main complaints about the Macbook Air. People also want an easy way to replace the hard drive. PC users always love to brag about being able to upgrade PC hardware with out pulling out a bunch of screws. Repair shops go crazy when they have to take a computer apart just to replace a failed drive. And probably most importantly, in 2 or 3 years, SSDs are going to be a cheap way to really boost performance, more so than simply adding RAM. An easily replaceable hard drive matters a whole lot, and it's evident from the latest updates that it doesn't make the case weaker and force more thickness. Hopefully the iMac gets its guts shuffled around during the next refresh, and if Apple ever gets around to updating the Mac mini, make it easier to open the damn thing. Using plastic tabs they way they did is just plain ridiculous.
Also, what's with the Apple will nevers? I thought those only worked on nay-sayers?
No Hybrid SLI. Apple is using only the power-saving features.
Screw hybrid SLI, I would rather see the 'real' GPU used for video & the integrated GPU be available, at the same time, for OpenCL number-crunching goodness...
Well look around. The entire notebook market is moving to smaller or thinner. Why use a bigger port if a smaller one will do the same job. Apple won't be the only one using the mini ports.
First Apple defenders praise Apple for "thinking different", not "following the crowd", and not belonging to the "herd". Now you defend Apple for doing exactly what you praised them for not doing. So basically, Apple can do no wrong no matter what. Is that it?
A lot of people depend on the ability to take out the battery, usually to replace it with a spare on long trips. It's one of the main complaints about the Macbook Air. People also want an easy way to replace the hard drive. PC users always love to brag about being able to upgrade PC hardware with out pulling out a bunch of screws. Repair shops go crazy when they have to take a computer apart just to replace a failed drive. And probably most importantly, in 2 or 3 years, SSDs are going to be a cheap way to really boost performance, more so than simply adding RAM. An easily replaceable hard drive matters a whole lot, and it's evident from the latest updates that it doesn't make the case weaker and force more thickness. Hopefully the iMac gets its guts shuffled around during the next refresh, and if Apple ever gets around to updating the Mac mini, make it easier to open the damn thing. Using plastic tabs they way they did is just plain ridiculous.
Also, what's with the Apple will nevers? I thought those only worked on nay-sayers?
By "nay-sayers", do you mean those Apple zealots who kept arguing against ease of access in Macs? The same people who dismiss ease of access just because they don't to have take things apart? The same people who argued that making Mac laptops easier to access would require "more internal bracing" which would require thicker laptops? How many times have people asked for easier to access Mac laptops? How many times have professional technicians and IT staff complained about Apple making it almost impossible to support their users, only to be dismissed by those Mac zealots? Where are those zealots now? Shouldn't they be complaining to Apple for making the new MacBook Pro easier to access? Despite those zealots arguing that ease of access means weaker and thicker cases, Apple says the new MacBook Pro is stiffer and thinner. So where are the zealots now? Did Apple just make them look like a bunch of idiots?
There will be no video iPods. Nobody wants to watch video on iPods.
Apple will not make cell phones.
Apple will never switch to Intel processors.
First Apple defenders praise Apple for "thinking different", not "following the crowd", and not belonging to the "herd". Now you defend Apple for doing exactly what you praised them for not doing. So basically, Apple can do no wrong no matter what. Is that it?
I would say here needs to be a healthy balance between the two.
Sometimes its better for Apple to go its own way. That differentiates it from other computer manufacturers and allows them to sell their products. OS X as a proprietary operating system and working with chip manufacturers such as Intel and Nvidia to develop chips Apple needs to improve Mac performance is a good example of this.
Their are times when Apple joins with everyone in using open standards or industry approved standards that benefit the computer industry as a whole. Unix, webkit, AJAX, h.264, and AAC are good examples of that.
So that people can't use normal third party DisplayPort to HDMI/DVI adapters, and Apple can make money selling their own.
Hoping to see third party Mini DisplayPort to HDMI cables very soon!
They can make one for the other end of the cable with the standard size port connector. No biggie.
lol. Tell me about it. I've got storage boxes full of old adapters, cords, and other bygone accessories... gotta clean out those closets.
Need a big box of SCSI cables?
First Apple defenders praise Apple for "thinking different", not "following the crowd", and not belonging to the "herd". Now you defend Apple for doing exactly what you praised them for not doing. So basically, Apple can do no wrong no matter what. Is that it?
What's the purpose of your argument? The point?
By "nay-sayers", do you mean those Apple zealots who kept arguing against ease of access in Macs? The same people who dismiss ease of access just because they don't to have take things apart? The same people who argued that making Mac laptops easier to access would require "more internal bracing" which would require thicker laptops? How many times have people asked for easier to access Mac laptops? How many times have professional technicians and IT staff complained about Apple making it almost impossible to support their users, only to be dismissed by those Mac zealots? Where are those zealots now? Shouldn't they be complaining to Apple for making the new MacBook Pro easier to access? Despite those zealots arguing that ease of access means weaker and thicker cases, Apple says the new MacBook Pro is stiffer and thinner. So where are the zealots now? Did Apple just make them look like a bunch of idiots?
There will be no video iPods. Nobody wants to watch video on iPods.
Apple will not make cell phones.
Apple will never switch to Intel processors.
Why does this matter to you so much?
Many are using a notebook plugged into an LCD projector to give presentations.
An LCD projector which is predominantly used for computer-based presentations is equivalent to a computer monitor in the context of the original discussion (i.e. what type of video output connector should Apple laptops have?).
Something I still haven't worked out: with DisplayPort and an appropriate connector, will I be able to hook a new MB/P into an HDMI TV and get sound through it? It's a significant annoyance with the old mini-DVI that I can't.
Yes.
Another win DisplayPort has over DVI is that it carries audio.
The new 24" display has built-in speakers and the audio is routed over the DisplayPort cable.
Something else I haven't seen mentioned is that DisplayPort has the potential to allow daisy-chained monitors.
So the MacBook loses one daisy-chainable interface, FireWire, and gains another that has the potential to be daisy-chained in the future. I'm not sure if support for that would be entirely up to software, though.
I'd now REALLY like to see a Mac Mini with a DisplayPort connector and finally the ability to support more than one monitor. I'll settle for a Mac Mini with two display connectors (maybe DVI-I *and* DisplayPort) that can be used at the same time, though.
Yes.
Another win DisplayPort has over DVI is that it carries audio.
The new 24" display has built-in speakers and the audio is routed over the DisplayPort cable.
Something else I haven't seen mentioned is that DisplayPort has the potential to allow daisy-chained monitors.
So the MacBook loses one daisy-chainable interface, FireWire, and gains another that has the potential to be daisy-chained in the future. I'm not sure if support for that would be entirely up to software, though.
I'd now REALLY like to see a Mac Mini with a DisplayPort connector and finally the ability to support more than one monitor. I'll settle for a Mac Mini with two display connectors (maybe DVI-I *and* DisplayPort) that can be used at the same time, though.
In theory it can be daisy chained, but Apple has not released a mini display port to display port adaptor.
In theory it can be daisy chained, but Apple has not released a mini display port to display port adaptor.
At the moment there are so few devices with DisplayPort that there's little reason for an adaptor between it and Mini DisplayPort.
Considering that Apple's new 24" display uses a Mini DisplayPort connector, I'd expect Apple to standardize on that size connector across its entire product line, including pro displays and Mac Pros. I wouldn't be surprised to see the video cards on the Mac Pros get one full size DisplayPort connector and one Mini DisplayPort connector, though. At that point they'd release a DisplayPort to Mini DisplayPort adpater so you could hook up two Apple displays that used Mini DisplayPort.
If full size DisplayPort connectors get common enough Apple will surely release Mini DisplayPort to DisplayPort cables. If Mini DisplayPort becomes officially part of the 2.1 spec and many other manufacturers decide to adopt it then Apple may leave it up to third parties to make Mini DisplayPort to DisplayPort cables, much like Apple doesn't make DVI to HDMI cables themselves.
Personally I don't see the size/type of connector being used as that big of a deal. It's a lot like how DVI has multiple variations even in its full-size connectors, and how Apple's MacBooks and iMacs (and previously iBooks and the 12" PowerBook) have used Mini DVI.
At this point Apple can finally standardize across their whole line with a single display connector, rather than a mixed bag that wasn't even aligned along consumer/pro lines (the Mac Mini has full-size DVI; the original MacBook Air had Micro DVI).
They work great for presentations with small groups. Right now, nearly every laptop we connect is done with VGA. Only a handful we connect with DVI and those are Mac laptops, though most of them are connected VGA as well.
Many are using a notebook plugged into an LCD projector to give presentations.