Which in 2010 will be a non issue for the data rates you want with USB3. Because the sustained rates will be far above either USB2 or FW400 burst rates and it won't be even a 7% hit for the rates you're talking about.
The clock says its 2008. 2 Years can loose a lot of users for Apple. When 2010 arrives I don't want the Mac community to consist of A bunch of quazi-cultists and fad switchers with the music and movie people having gone to windows. I know you disagree because you always go by what comes out of Jobs' mouth.
I'm looking over my new MacBook and I have taken the full bottom cover off. I don't see how Apple could put FW400 on this thing. There just isn't any room. The mic and headphone jacks could be a littel closer together, but the other ports are about as close as you would want them. Maybe they could force them to fit if the move the power adapter back a little.
It make me wonder if the reduction of FW400 was more of an engineering trimming, than a marketing one.Perhaps if the put the headphone jack on the other side of the Kenington lock slot, but that is less than ideal. Or make the width longer to accommodate the port, but that is less than ideal. The other side has the optical drive going from one end to the bay down opening.
My ideal setup is to remove the optical drive and replace it with EC/34, FW800 and two more USB, but I"m in a minority about the usefulness of the optical drive at the moment.
I'm looking over my new MacBook and I have taken the full bottom cover off. I don't see how Apple could put FW400 on this thing. There just isn't any room.
If a retrofit would be difficult, and if the number of old-timers wanting Firewire is low, the most practical partial-solution would be to offer the Firewire dependent a substantial discount on a 15" MacBrick Pro. Apple's gross margin's of about 33% would allow them to still make a nice profit even after offering a $400 or $500 (say) discount.
It would be tedious to the user and the Apple Store to gather and examine, respectively, the evidence that a MacBook owner is dependent on Firewire peripherals or makes heavy use of DTM. And it wouldn't satisfy persons who don't want a larger, heavier, and pricier gadget--period. And there would be a few cheaters. But it would re-establish Apple's trustworthiness--and avoid a PR disaster-in-the-making.
PS: There are probably people at Apple thinking along these lines already. It is a messy and imperfect solution, but there is no other, apparently. (If only it had been offered when the MacBricks were unveiled--then the company would have looked good, not bad.)
The clock says its 2008. 2 Years can loose a lot of users for Apple. When 2010 arrives I don't want the Mac community to consist of A bunch of quazi-cultists and fad switchers with the music and movie people having gone to windows. I know you disagree because you always go by what comes out of Jobs' mouth.
And I know you think that everything Apple does is wrong because you're a hater. But somehow you stick around anyway.
I don't like losing FW but in the grand scheme of things the new MB is awesome and given that it appears not to physically fit I'd rather keep 2 USB + ethernet vs any other combo.
Most folks won't care that the FW is gone. They WILL notice that WoW doesn't suck on the new MBs...and given that the MB is mostly targeted at students that's a much bigger deal. But hey, for you Apple can do no right.
PROTIP: When you start seeing conspiracies in the motives of people you disagree with, it's time to log off the internet and go outside for a while.
PROTIP No.2: Look up definition of "conspiracy".
Conspiracy (kən-spîr'ə-sē) conspiracy is an agreement between two or more persons to commit an illegal act or to achieve a legal objective through illegal means.
And where exactly did I say that anything illegal was going on? Hmmm.
I sent feedback in to Apple and will make my message clear with my wallet.
No Firewire on new MacBooks means no sale to this user (or anyone else in my family). Losing a quick sale maybe something Apple is willing to accept with their decision. The MacBook instantly came off some family christmas lists and that money won't be making its way to Cupertino in any shape or form this year.
We already have a MBP at home and don't need another one. A MacBook would have been nice, though.
So they lost a quick sale which they might get back on the next product refresh if Firewire comes back. If it doesn't come back then a Hackintosh may be the solution. That would be worse for Apple as instead of seeing this buyer stall a purchase they would effectively lose it forever.
I'm only posting here to make my message to Apple clear and so that it never gets swept under the carpet (feedback, while essential is only seen by Apple). It's just one voice. However, depending on the amount of people taking similar action, this might turn out to be more than just a blip on Apple's sales projections. Couple that with the new higher price in a market that is (or soon will be) depressed due to the economic climate and just maybe they will rethink the whole situation.
They lost points with me for being so underhand about the whole thing, to the point of not even showing the MacBook port lineup at the special event. That's just so nasty. Why hide the facts? This was the presentation of the new line!
They took the decision, they should at least stand up and a give some reasons for it and let their loyal users know where there are going with regards to Firewire in general. What is there to gain in leaving users speculating? That special event was the prime moment.
My personal opinion is that Firewire is now a legacy technology on the Mac but they didn't have the mettle to make it official, knowing there would be negative reaction. That means no FW3200.
Given that many people have firewire equipment because of Apple's slowness to support USB2.0 (why did it take so long?) I think they have a moral duty to support this technology fully (across the product line) until such a time when Firewire has some kind of real successor. They have 25 billion dollars in cash, a minute fraction of which could serve such a purpose.
Once again Apple has proved itself to be in a class of its own on a subject it knows only too well: Shooting itself in the foot!
All this negative reaction could have been avoided with a little bit more thought.
They lost points with me for being so underhand about the whole thing, to the point of not even showing the MacBook port lineup at the special event. That's just so nasty. Why hide the facts? This was the presentation of the new line!
They showed the port holes, but why does that matter. They didn't show the back of the lid but the illuminated Apple logo is still there. If they didn't have images on their website showing the port side, a Tech Specs page with full disclosure or allowed you to handle the new MBs in the store before buying them, then you'd have a valid reason to complain.
Quote:
They took the decision, they should at least stand up and a give some reasons for it and let their loyal users know where there are going with regards to Firewire in general. What is there to gain in leaving users speculating? That special event was the prime moment.
What are you speculating? It's gone and it'll probably never come back. If you want reasons just think back to how Apple has been slowly pulling it's iDevices away from FW and onto USB2.0 over the last 5 years. Then check out the pics below. The biggest issue I have with the new MB is not the loss of FW400, but the loss of the 3rd-port. If it were 3 USB then Apple would be obsolescing FW400 for its sake, but check out the images below, there isn't any room for that additional port unless Apple moved some things around. Other PC OEMs wouldn't have a problem with having ports spread out in unusual places, but this is Apple we are talking about. They could also have made the device longer from front to back to accommodate another port, but that is a lot of extra materials for a port that is only used by a small portion of Mac users. It looks like it was just the unfortunate result of being the most popular kid and no more seats left at the lunch table.
My personal opinion is that Firewire is now a legacy technology on the Mac but they didn't have the mettle to make it official, knowing there would be negative reaction. That means no FW3200.
You jump from the lack of FW400 on the MB is a greivous mistake that will force your entire family to build your own Macs to claiming that the entire FW standard is "legacy"?
Quote:
Given that many people have firewire equipment because of Apple's slowness to support USB2.0 (why did it take so long?)
Apple has been supporting USB2.0 on their notebooks for over 5 years.
[quote]I think they have a moral duty to support this technology fully (across the product line) until such a time when Firewire has some kind of real successor.['/quote]
Conspiracy (kən-spîr'ə-sē) conspiracy is an agreement between two or more persons to commit an illegal act or to achieve a legal objective through illegal means.
And where exactly did I say that anything illegal was going on? Hmmm.
What, you want me to keep talking? I said what I felt like saying. You're the one accusing others of having "agendas" and "working for"...who, I wonder? Wait, I don't wonder.
I'm going to go find another thread to read before I stray even further off-topic.
And I know you think that everything Apple does is wrong because you're a hater. But somehow you stick around anyway.
I don't like losing FW but in the grand scheme of things the new MB is awesome and given that it appears not to physically fit I'd rather keep 2 USB + ethernet vs any other combo.
Most folks won't care that the FW is gone. They WILL notice that WoW doesn't suck on the new MBs...and given that the MB is mostly targeted at students that's a much bigger deal. But hey, for you Apple can do no right.
Yeah I hate them so much that I've bought their products for a decade and a half.
I don't like losing FW but in the grand scheme of things the new MB is awesome and ... Most folks won't care that the FW is gone.
Other Apple-supportive posters (whose quotes I'm too lazy to hunt for) have gone much further along this line and claimed that Apple's critics are sentimentalists who can't acknowledge the superiority of Apple's cold-eyed focus on the bottom line and its commendable refusal to placate a bunch of whiners. That opinion strikes me as being "crackpot realism." I.e., it looks only at the immediate and measurable effects of this feature-omission. There are four large downside intangibles:
1. Psystar has been given powerful ammo with which to argue that Apple's OS shouldn't be restricted to users of Apple's hardware. It can argue that Apple's monopoly on the hardware on which its OS can run allows it to abuse its market power by capriciously deleting features it has led its users to rely on and invest in, and that it would be good public policy to allow orphaned users to buy hardware that retains Apple-deleted features. (This argument will gain strength if Psystar can obtain ads, or statements by Apple employees, endorsing Firewire as a reason for buying a Mac.) The government forced IBM to unbundle its software from its hardware, so there's a precedent--although Apple has nowhere near IBM's market power. Nevertheless, one never knows what a court may do. In the big picture, this was an unwise move.
2. Linux partisans and Windows-loyalists have been given powerful ammo to support their points about the need for open platforms that can't be jerked around from on high, and the existence of an "Apple tax," respectively. These arguments will be employed if the Mac ever starts to gain traction in the enterprise.
3. Hackintoshers have been given a certain amount of moral justification for their activities--at a minimum, porting the OS to a laptop with a matte screen and FW. Naturally, they will try to stretch this to encompass everything they are doing.
4. Apple has weakened the attachment of its fan-base (and even created some former-customer enemies who are skilled at media manipulation and image-tarnishing). Several recent business books (I've read the reviews, but have forgotten the titles) claim that building a fan-base that identifies with the brand is a powerful way to create long-time success for a business. Apple was cited as the company that has best executed this strategy. Most of Apple's sales come as a result of recommendations from its fan base. Now, there will be fewer of these, and some of the ones that remain will not be as enthusiastic.
Of course, Apple may escape any serious damage from downsides 2-4. Certainly, there will be only anecdotal evidence if their effects are substantial. But, even if the loss of sales is small, the cost of retaining Firewire would have been less. (Assuming FW could have been fitted in if the product's innards had been laid out from the beginning to accommodate the port.) As for downside 1, Apple will likely win in the courts--its case is strong. But handing its opponent a weapon was risky.
Please re-read my post and decide if most of your comments are really related to what I wrote. I'll gladly reply to all your comments if you stand by what you have written but I think that you'll see that your comments aren't commenting on what I wrote but rather on what you think I wrote.
Most folks won't care that the FW is gone. They WILL notice that WoW doesn't suck on the new MBs...and given that the MB is mostly targeted at students that's a much bigger deal. But hey, for you Apple can do no right.
What are you basing your 'most folks' claim on and how are you defining the term (would over 50% be 'most folks')?
I learnt very early on that the Mac and Apple are two completely different beasts. I may love the mac in general terms but Apple is a completely different kettle of fish.
What does Apple's silence on the MacBook Firewire issue tell you? You only have to take a look around you on the internet to see that lot's of people are in uproar over this situation.
When faced with fire you have two clear options: Extinguish it or let it burn itself out. It appears that Apple has chosen the latter. Only time will tell the damage that has been done.
With 25 Billion dollars in the bank in cash one has to ask the question: Why?
There was absolutely no pressing requirement to eliminate the port.
If you look at the benchmarks for the new MacBooks compared with the MacBook Pros, with the exception of games (helped by the discrete video card in the MBP) and screen size, there's little to choose between the two.
Apple's reasoning for dropping firewire in the MB is clear. Sales of MBs with firewire would cut into sales of MBPs, so they dropped it. It's a cynical attempt to maximize profits at the expense of choice for users. If you want firewire, it will cost you $500. If you want a smaller format computer with firewire, tough. If you don't have the $500, tough.
Me? I'll keep using by old PowerBook until Apple makes a computer in the size I want, with the features I want, at a price I want.
What are you basing your 'most folks' claim on and how are you defining the term (would over 50% be 'most folks')?
I learnt very early on that the Mac and Apple are two completely different beasts. I may love the mac in general terms but Apple is a completely different kettle of fish.
What does Apple's silence on the MacBook Firewire issue tell you? You only have to take a look around you on the internet to see that lot's of people are in uproar over this situation.
When faced with fire you have two clear options: Extinguish it or let it burn itself out. It appears that Apple has chosen the latter. Only time will tell the damage that has been done.
With 25 Billion dollars in the bank in cash one has to ask the question: Why?
There was absolutely no pressing requirement to eliminate the port.
0.05 inches, that's the pressing requirement. Design is the only concern of Apple inc.
1. Psystar has been given powerful ammo with which to argue that Apple's OS shouldn't be restricted to users of Apple's hardware.
Only for freetards and pirates. Seriously, if you don't like paying for Apple gear, don't. Run ubuntu and enjoy.
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2. Linux partisans and Windows-loyalists have been given powerful ammo to support their points about the need for open platforms that can't be jerked around from on high, and the existence of an "Apple tax," respectively. These arguments will be employed if the Mac ever starts to gain traction in the enterprise.
Which is why Apple is the best desktop Unix evar...while the year of Linux on the desktop keeps receeding.
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3. Hackintoshers have been given a certain amount of moral justification for their activities--at a minimum, porting the OS to a laptop with a matte screen and FW. Naturally, they will try to stretch this to encompass everything they are doing.
There's no "moral" justification and Apple doesn't much care anyway that some of us geeks like playing with OSX on other devices.
Quote:
4. Apple has weakened the attachment of its fan-base
Given the fan base is larger than ever this seems laughable. What was that you said about crackpot realism?
What are you basing your 'most folks' claim on and how are you defining the term (would over 50% be 'most folks')?
Yes, 50% would be "most folks" and it's based on the fact that half of the purchasers of new macs* are switchers and FW isn't all that big on the Windows side AND the fact that a large target demographic for the Macbook are students. Between the two I'd say the LARGE majority of folks don't really care.
If they DID care, FW would still be there. So who cares? Some pros and some geeks care.
Quote:
What does Apple's silence on the MacBook Firewire issue tell you? You only have to take a look around you on the internet to see that lot's of people are in uproar over this situation.
If internet uproar was a clear indication of computing desires we'd all be running Linux.
0.05 inches, that's the pressing requirement. Design is the only concern of Apple inc.
The reduction on the MB is actually 0.13", from 1.08 to 0.95". It's the MBP that went from 1.00" to 0.95", a 0.05" difference.
But that height has nothing to do with the loss of FW400. If you look at the right sides of the new and old MB you'll see that the Kensington Lock hole is farther back on the new machine. It also lined up with the level that opens the battery/HDD compartment. If a Kensington Lock is in place, then the latch is also locked in place preventing someone from opening the compartment. That is engineering.
However, this does mean that their is less room between the back edge and the lock hole. The other side also has just enough space for the optical drive slot. I don't see how Apple could add FW400 (or another USB port, for that matter) without doing something dramatically foolish with the current configuration, or enlarging the width from front to back. I think this is why it was removed without making the FW400 into a FW800. Both the MB and MBP lost a port. You're right that design is important, but this is engineering and to Apple it seems it was weakest link.
If you look at the benchmarks for the new MacBooks compared with the MacBook Pros, with the exception of games (helped by the discrete video card in the MBP) and screen size, there's little to choose between the two.
Apple's reasoning for dropping firewire in the MB is clear. Sales of MBs with firewire would cut into sales of MBPs, so they dropped it. It's a cynical attempt to maximize profits at the expense of choice for users. If you want firewire, it will cost you $500. If you want a smaller format computer with firewire, tough. If you don't have the $500, tough.
Me? I'll keep using by old PowerBook until Apple makes a computer in the size I want, with the features I want, at a price I want.
100% agree with you. Its all about greed. Obviously, the number of MBP's were suffering because of the MB's. This just a tactic to sell more MBP's.
Comments
Which in 2010 will be a non issue for the data rates you want with USB3. Because the sustained rates will be far above either USB2 or FW400 burst rates and it won't be even a 7% hit for the rates you're talking about.
The clock says its 2008. 2 Years can loose a lot of users for Apple. When 2010 arrives I don't want the Mac community to consist of A bunch of quazi-cultists and fad switchers with the music and movie people having gone to windows. I know you disagree because you always go by what comes out of Jobs' mouth.
It make me wonder if the reduction of FW400 was more of an engineering trimming, than a marketing one.Perhaps if the put the headphone jack on the other side of the Kenington lock slot, but that is less than ideal. Or make the width longer to accommodate the port, but that is less than ideal. The other side has the optical drive going from one end to the bay down opening.
My ideal setup is to remove the optical drive and replace it with EC/34, FW800 and two more USB, but I"m in a minority about the usefulness of the optical drive at the moment.
I'm looking over my new MacBook and I have taken the full bottom cover off. I don't see how Apple could put FW400 on this thing. There just isn't any room.
If a retrofit would be difficult, and if the number of old-timers wanting Firewire is low, the most practical partial-solution would be to offer the Firewire dependent a substantial discount on a 15" MacBrick Pro. Apple's gross margin's of about 33% would allow them to still make a nice profit even after offering a $400 or $500 (say) discount.
It would be tedious to the user and the Apple Store to gather and examine, respectively, the evidence that a MacBook owner is dependent on Firewire peripherals or makes heavy use of DTM. And it wouldn't satisfy persons who don't want a larger, heavier, and pricier gadget--period. And there would be a few cheaters. But it would re-establish Apple's trustworthiness--and avoid a PR disaster-in-the-making.
PS: There are probably people at Apple thinking along these lines already. It is a messy and imperfect solution, but there is no other, apparently. (If only it had been offered when the MacBricks were unveiled--then the company would have looked good, not bad.)
The clock says its 2008. 2 Years can loose a lot of users for Apple. When 2010 arrives I don't want the Mac community to consist of A bunch of quazi-cultists and fad switchers with the music and movie people having gone to windows. I know you disagree because you always go by what comes out of Jobs' mouth.
And I know you think that everything Apple does is wrong because you're a hater. But somehow you stick around anyway.
I don't like losing FW but in the grand scheme of things the new MB is awesome and given that it appears not to physically fit I'd rather keep 2 USB + ethernet vs any other combo.
Most folks won't care that the FW is gone. They WILL notice that WoW doesn't suck on the new MBs...and given that the MB is mostly targeted at students that's a much bigger deal. But hey, for you Apple can do no right.
PROTIP: When you start seeing conspiracies in the motives of people you disagree with, it's time to log off the internet and go outside for a while.
PROTIP No.2: Look up definition of "conspiracy".
Conspiracy (kən-spîr'ə-sē) conspiracy is an agreement between two or more persons to commit an illegal act or to achieve a legal objective through illegal means.
And where exactly did I say that anything illegal was going on? Hmmm.
tumbleweed
As odd as it may sound, from time to time, forum members do have lives such that they don't respond within eight hours.
No Firewire on new MacBooks means no sale to this user (or anyone else in my family). Losing a quick sale maybe something Apple is willing to accept with their decision. The MacBook instantly came off some family christmas lists and that money won't be making its way to Cupertino in any shape or form this year.
We already have a MBP at home and don't need another one. A MacBook would have been nice, though.
So they lost a quick sale which they might get back on the next product refresh if Firewire comes back. If it doesn't come back then a Hackintosh may be the solution. That would be worse for Apple as instead of seeing this buyer stall a purchase they would effectively lose it forever.
I'm only posting here to make my message to Apple clear and so that it never gets swept under the carpet (feedback, while essential is only seen by Apple). It's just one voice. However, depending on the amount of people taking similar action, this might turn out to be more than just a blip on Apple's sales projections. Couple that with the new higher price in a market that is (or soon will be) depressed due to the economic climate and just maybe they will rethink the whole situation.
They lost points with me for being so underhand about the whole thing, to the point of not even showing the MacBook port lineup at the special event. That's just so nasty. Why hide the facts? This was the presentation of the new line!
They took the decision, they should at least stand up and a give some reasons for it and let their loyal users know where there are going with regards to Firewire in general. What is there to gain in leaving users speculating? That special event was the prime moment.
My personal opinion is that Firewire is now a legacy technology on the Mac but they didn't have the mettle to make it official, knowing there would be negative reaction. That means no FW3200.
Given that many people have firewire equipment because of Apple's slowness to support USB2.0 (why did it take so long?) I think they have a moral duty to support this technology fully (across the product line) until such a time when Firewire has some kind of real successor. They have 25 billion dollars in cash, a minute fraction of which could serve such a purpose.
Once again Apple has proved itself to be in a class of its own on a subject it knows only too well: Shooting itself in the foot!
All this negative reaction could have been avoided with a little bit more thought.
They lost points with me for being so underhand about the whole thing, to the point of not even showing the MacBook port lineup at the special event. That's just so nasty. Why hide the facts? This was the presentation of the new line!
They showed the port holes, but why does that matter. They didn't show the back of the lid but the illuminated Apple logo is still there. If they didn't have images on their website showing the port side, a Tech Specs page with full disclosure or allowed you to handle the new MBs in the store before buying them, then you'd have a valid reason to complain.
They took the decision, they should at least stand up and a give some reasons for it and let their loyal users know where there are going with regards to Firewire in general. What is there to gain in leaving users speculating? That special event was the prime moment.
What are you speculating? It's gone and it'll probably never come back. If you want reasons just think back to how Apple has been slowly pulling it's iDevices away from FW and onto USB2.0 over the last 5 years. Then check out the pics below. The biggest issue I have with the new MB is not the loss of FW400, but the loss of the 3rd-port. If it were 3 USB then Apple would be obsolescing FW400 for its sake, but check out the images below, there isn't any room for that additional port unless Apple moved some things around. Other PC OEMs wouldn't have a problem with having ports spread out in unusual places, but this is Apple we are talking about. They could also have made the device longer from front to back to accommodate another port, but that is a lot of extra materials for a port that is only used by a small portion of Mac users. It looks like it was just the unfortunate result of being the most popular kid and no more seats left at the lunch table.
My personal opinion is that Firewire is now a legacy technology on the Mac but they didn't have the mettle to make it official, knowing there would be negative reaction. That means no FW3200.
You jump from the lack of FW400 on the MB is a greivous mistake that will force your entire family to build your own Macs to claiming that the entire FW standard is "legacy"?
Given that many people have firewire equipment because of Apple's slowness to support USB2.0 (why did it take so long?)
Apple has been supporting USB2.0 on their notebooks for over 5 years.
[quote]I think they have a moral duty to support this technology fully (across the product line) until such a time when Firewire has some kind of real successor.['/quote]
Moral duty? Are you being series?
PROTIP No.2: Look up definition of "conspiracy".
Conspiracy (kən-spîr'ə-sē) conspiracy is an agreement between two or more persons to commit an illegal act or to achieve a legal objective through illegal means.
And where exactly did I say that anything illegal was going on? Hmmm.
What, you want me to keep talking? I said what I felt like saying. You're the one accusing others of having "agendas" and "working for"...who, I wonder? Wait, I don't wonder.
I'm going to go find another thread to read before I stray even further off-topic.
And I know you think that everything Apple does is wrong because you're a hater. But somehow you stick around anyway.
I don't like losing FW but in the grand scheme of things the new MB is awesome and given that it appears not to physically fit I'd rather keep 2 USB + ethernet vs any other combo.
Most folks won't care that the FW is gone. They WILL notice that WoW doesn't suck on the new MBs...and given that the MB is mostly targeted at students that's a much bigger deal. But hey, for you Apple can do no right.
Yeah I hate them so much that I've bought their products for a decade and a half.
I don't like losing FW but in the grand scheme of things the new MB is awesome and ... Most folks won't care that the FW is gone.
Other Apple-supportive posters (whose quotes I'm too lazy to hunt for) have gone much further along this line and claimed that Apple's critics are sentimentalists who can't acknowledge the superiority of Apple's cold-eyed focus on the bottom line and its commendable refusal to placate a bunch of whiners. That opinion strikes me as being "crackpot realism." I.e., it looks only at the immediate and measurable effects of this feature-omission. There are four large downside intangibles:
1. Psystar has been given powerful ammo with which to argue that Apple's OS shouldn't be restricted to users of Apple's hardware. It can argue that Apple's monopoly on the hardware on which its OS can run allows it to abuse its market power by capriciously deleting features it has led its users to rely on and invest in, and that it would be good public policy to allow orphaned users to buy hardware that retains Apple-deleted features. (This argument will gain strength if Psystar can obtain ads, or statements by Apple employees, endorsing Firewire as a reason for buying a Mac.) The government forced IBM to unbundle its software from its hardware, so there's a precedent--although Apple has nowhere near IBM's market power. Nevertheless, one never knows what a court may do. In the big picture, this was an unwise move.
2. Linux partisans and Windows-loyalists have been given powerful ammo to support their points about the need for open platforms that can't be jerked around from on high, and the existence of an "Apple tax," respectively. These arguments will be employed if the Mac ever starts to gain traction in the enterprise.
3. Hackintoshers have been given a certain amount of moral justification for their activities--at a minimum, porting the OS to a laptop with a matte screen and FW. Naturally, they will try to stretch this to encompass everything they are doing.
4. Apple has weakened the attachment of its fan-base (and even created some former-customer enemies who are skilled at media manipulation and image-tarnishing). Several recent business books (I've read the reviews, but have forgotten the titles) claim that building a fan-base that identifies with the brand is a powerful way to create long-time success for a business. Apple was cited as the company that has best executed this strategy. Most of Apple's sales come as a result of recommendations from its fan base. Now, there will be fewer of these, and some of the ones that remain will not be as enthusiastic.
Of course, Apple may escape any serious damage from downsides 2-4. Certainly, there will be only anecdotal evidence if their effects are substantial. But, even if the loss of sales is small, the cost of retaining Firewire would have been less. (Assuming FW could have been fitted in if the product's innards had been laid out from the beginning to accommodate the port.) As for downside 1, Apple will likely win in the courts--its case is strong. But handing its opponent a weapon was risky.
Please re-read my post and decide if most of your comments are really related to what I wrote. I'll gladly reply to all your comments if you stand by what you have written but I think that you'll see that your comments aren't commenting on what I wrote but rather on what you think I wrote.
Most folks won't care that the FW is gone. They WILL notice that WoW doesn't suck on the new MBs...and given that the MB is mostly targeted at students that's a much bigger deal. But hey, for you Apple can do no right.
What are you basing your 'most folks' claim on and how are you defining the term (would over 50% be 'most folks')?
I learnt very early on that the Mac and Apple are two completely different beasts. I may love the mac in general terms but Apple is a completely different kettle of fish.
What does Apple's silence on the MacBook Firewire issue tell you? You only have to take a look around you on the internet to see that lot's of people are in uproar over this situation.
When faced with fire you have two clear options: Extinguish it or let it burn itself out. It appears that Apple has chosen the latter. Only time will tell the damage that has been done.
With 25 Billion dollars in the bank in cash one has to ask the question: Why?
There was absolutely no pressing requirement to eliminate the port.
Apple's reasoning for dropping firewire in the MB is clear. Sales of MBs with firewire would cut into sales of MBPs, so they dropped it. It's a cynical attempt to maximize profits at the expense of choice for users. If you want firewire, it will cost you $500. If you want a smaller format computer with firewire, tough. If you don't have the $500, tough.
Me? I'll keep using by old PowerBook until Apple makes a computer in the size I want, with the features I want, at a price I want.
What are you basing your 'most folks' claim on and how are you defining the term (would over 50% be 'most folks')?
I learnt very early on that the Mac and Apple are two completely different beasts. I may love the mac in general terms but Apple is a completely different kettle of fish.
What does Apple's silence on the MacBook Firewire issue tell you? You only have to take a look around you on the internet to see that lot's of people are in uproar over this situation.
When faced with fire you have two clear options: Extinguish it or let it burn itself out. It appears that Apple has chosen the latter. Only time will tell the damage that has been done.
With 25 Billion dollars in the bank in cash one has to ask the question: Why?
There was absolutely no pressing requirement to eliminate the port.
0.05 inches, that's the pressing requirement. Design is the only concern of Apple inc.
1. Psystar has been given powerful ammo with which to argue that Apple's OS shouldn't be restricted to users of Apple's hardware.
Only for freetards and pirates. Seriously, if you don't like paying for Apple gear, don't. Run ubuntu and enjoy.
2. Linux partisans and Windows-loyalists have been given powerful ammo to support their points about the need for open platforms that can't be jerked around from on high, and the existence of an "Apple tax," respectively. These arguments will be employed if the Mac ever starts to gain traction in the enterprise.
Which is why Apple is the best desktop Unix evar...while the year of Linux on the desktop keeps receeding.
3. Hackintoshers have been given a certain amount of moral justification for their activities--at a minimum, porting the OS to a laptop with a matte screen and FW. Naturally, they will try to stretch this to encompass everything they are doing.
There's no "moral" justification and Apple doesn't much care anyway that some of us geeks like playing with OSX on other devices.
4. Apple has weakened the attachment of its fan-base
Given the fan base is larger than ever this seems laughable. What was that you said about crackpot realism?
What are you basing your 'most folks' claim on and how are you defining the term (would over 50% be 'most folks')?
Yes, 50% would be "most folks" and it's based on the fact that half of the purchasers of new macs* are switchers and FW isn't all that big on the Windows side AND the fact that a large target demographic for the Macbook are students. Between the two I'd say the LARGE majority of folks don't really care.
If they DID care, FW would still be there. So who cares? Some pros and some geeks care.
What does Apple's silence on the MacBook Firewire issue tell you? You only have to take a look around you on the internet to see that lot's of people are in uproar over this situation.
If internet uproar was a clear indication of computing desires we'd all be running Linux.
* in apple stores
0.05 inches, that's the pressing requirement. Design is the only concern of Apple inc.
The reduction on the MB is actually 0.13", from 1.08 to 0.95". It's the MBP that went from 1.00" to 0.95", a 0.05" difference.
But that height has nothing to do with the loss of FW400. If you look at the right sides of the new and old MB you'll see that the Kensington Lock hole is farther back on the new machine. It also lined up with the level that opens the battery/HDD compartment. If a Kensington Lock is in place, then the latch is also locked in place preventing someone from opening the compartment. That is engineering.
However, this does mean that their is less room between the back edge and the lock hole. The other side also has just enough space for the optical drive slot. I don't see how Apple could add FW400 (or another USB port, for that matter) without doing something dramatically foolish with the current configuration, or enlarging the width from front to back. I think this is why it was removed without making the FW400 into a FW800. Both the MB and MBP lost a port. You're right that design is important, but this is engineering and to Apple it seems it was weakest link.
If you look at the benchmarks for the new MacBooks compared with the MacBook Pros, with the exception of games (helped by the discrete video card in the MBP) and screen size, there's little to choose between the two.
Apple's reasoning for dropping firewire in the MB is clear. Sales of MBs with firewire would cut into sales of MBPs, so they dropped it. It's a cynical attempt to maximize profits at the expense of choice for users. If you want firewire, it will cost you $500. If you want a smaller format computer with firewire, tough. If you don't have the $500, tough.
Me? I'll keep using by old PowerBook until Apple makes a computer in the size I want, with the features I want, at a price I want.
100% agree with you. Its all about greed. Obviously, the number of MBP's were suffering because of the MB's. This just a tactic to sell more MBP's.