all said tongue in cheek because straight debating with you was getting boring...
so please at least have one smile as you read this
if not shut down your vista toughbook and go for a walk
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea
I'm very happy with the new MB. However, since I want a new desktop I'm waiting to see how the mini gets rev'd. If it's not so hot I'll just get the new MB. 2 USB is just fine for me. I'll get a new camcorder if need be. USB3 is not required.
your so happy with the MB that your not getting one
and dammit now you've just ruined all your arguments because you're flip flopping
USB3 is the best, USB3 is the future, USB3 is so much better than FW, ESata is so much better than FW...
USB2 is all that I require
oh sorry forgot - the MB specs revolve around what u require
HOLD ON WORLD THE MACBOOK SPECS REVOLVE AROUND WHAT VINEA REQUIRES !!
there i think everyone from here to africa heard that... including mr jobs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea
But hey, it's easier to call folks that don't agree with you names than actually defend your position.
Right, that's the ONLY argument that cuts any mustard. How about the MB is a consumer laptop and the consumer market doesn't need FW? That most of the screaming has been from pros who don't want to pony up for a MBP.
i'm afraid i'm going to have to stop u right there Vinea and ask for certified statistics to back up the use of the word "most".
oh dear, you really don't understand do you... oh that's right because you use the word "most folks" (previous posts) and "consumer market" (without statistical backing or UN certified definitions) you don't have to understand - you simply get to win ALL the arguments. damnit i hate this game
so are you the kind of person that would congratulate apple if they took off all the connections??? how about a wifi / BT only macbook for Vinea. Jobs? Anyone?
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea
Strawman.
In any case, the likely reason is because the MB IS too good at this point. FW and the expresscard slot are the only real differentiators between the MBP and MB. That is more than a $5 loss to Apple if even MORE cannibalization occurs. Which it will in fairly large number as is because the new MB is an awesome machine in comparison to the old one.
if you had used the word "awesomest" i might have believed you.
ok that's a good idea - in fact it's the most intelligent way to build machines. if you can in fact build an "almost macbook pro" for the price of a macbook then you should do something stupid to it to criple it, to move it back in technology, just so people have to get the macbook pro... (i could add 'in order to feel like they've actually upgraded')
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea
But hey, it's more fun to claim that Apple/Jobs is SO evil he wants to cheat you out of a $5 connector and technological bliss than understanding that they gave you a brilliant new machine and simply do not want to GUT their revenues. Apple ASPs will trend quite a downwards anyway I think.
quite right old chap - a $5 connector would GUT their revenues. well done. yes well done.
oh right... yes because now that my arm is twisted i'm rushing out to buy a MBP because of lack of FW.
shoot! why didn't i think of that superbly sound argument?
yes i most certainly said jobs was evil... not.
ahhh whatever it used to be fun but now it's getting pathetic
but before you go can you just explain "Strawman" pls that's really got me intrigued.
hmm must be a cultural reference.... i'm sure it's funny
hang on a tick and i'll wiki it - back in a sec.
oh and a name would be like "Mr Disagree" - which is not what i called you but i did say that you seem to like to disagree -but you don't agree with me on that one do you.
Well that whole podcasting thing is kinda important to the MB demographic, and Apple makes this GarageBand app that has a lot of audio doohickeys to connect. I'm also assuming that iMovie caters to the MB demographic as well.
I understand that many of the accessories for these purposes are now USB as well, but if I wanted the lowest common denominator user experience, would I have bought a Mac in the first place?
Extremely well said.
Something else interesting... the new MacBooks are available at Amazon, and are ALREADY selling with a $50 rebate, even though they're brand-new.
Is this SOP at Amazon for Macs? Or, is it possible that the new MBs aren't selling quite as well as Apple had hoped?
I'd wait. Nikon isn't going leave the 5D MkII unanswered for long unless you think it can be a firmware fix.
Nice video though.
The thought in the industry is that Nikon knew Canon was doing video in the 5D mkII, and rushed out the D90 modification to have SOMETHING.
I don't see them matching the mkII for a while. They are thought to be coming out with a higher rez top of line model before too long. But then, Canon is expected to replace their 1Ds mkIII shortly too.
Should be interesting. I'm looking to replace my 5D with the mkII soon, and my daughters 40D with the 50D.
Of course it matters when performance is monitored. Musicians run firewire because even a %7 hit means you cannot run as many tracks or power is gone for some effects.
For burst data that doesn't require realtime or guaranteed delivery USB is fine but I find it absurd that people have "chosen" USB. With Intel creating USB and shoveling it into every computer there never really was a choice.
Performance is irrelevent. I've said this earlier. When we had slow busses, slow cpu's, and one core, it mattered a great deal.
Now, none of that matters. Even the lowliest computer flies when compared to those old machines.
As time goes on, it will matter even less, if that's even needed.
Before too long, perhaps another year, we will be using four core cpu's in laptops as well.
Cpu utilization is just not an issue. Stop trying to make it one.
Or at least you hope they aren't selling well. I doubt many are looking at their first two weeks of sales as their long term trend.
Apple should certainly hope the first two weeks are phenomenal for MacBook sales. In their analyst conference call they indicated they thought portable sales had slowed prior to the 14th, due to expectations of upgrades. Lots of people were waiting.
But Amazon always offers rebates. I wouldn't read anything into that. MacConnection offers rebates too.
Cpu utilization is just not an issue. Stop trying to make it one.
CPU utilisation so IS an issue - heat !!!!!!
(although if it was only a 7% increase i'd agree - but it's locking people into host controller config then there's no way to add to an existing machine by buying external processors for audio / vid apps)
oh i keep forgetting - audio / vid means i should go buy a pro \
Those are not normal computer ports. They link several power lines together. I don't know of any computer that allows that. I also don't know of any audio or video equipment that allows that either, other that a couple of industrial models.
(although if it was only a 7% increase i'd agree - but it's locking people into host controller config then there's no way to add to an existing machine by buying external processors for audio / vid apps)
oh i keep forgetting - audio / vid means i should go buy a pro \
No it's not. 7% of 200% is still almost nothing - 3.5%. 200% being both cores.
And exactly what uses do you have that host/controller would prevent?
this is a godsend for macbook / mac mini / even macbook pro use
because it add processing power for plug ins that would otherwise
completely overload my cpu
and that's on a simple mix (2 guitar, 1-2 vox, bass, 6x drum tracks) where you have at least one plug in per track... so you can see why host controlled is impossible for larger orchestra mixes etc and will definietly cause an increase in CPU power req't and thus heat...
my mac pro eats it up and asks for more (love the 8 cores)
it's an application i can see being useful for video effects too
although i don't know too much about that area (yet)
given that this small external box costs around $500, runs off bus power and prevents you having to upgrade to either a macbook pro or mac pro - it's totally worth it
oh yeah - that's right, apple wants me to buy a pro \
Those are not normal computer ports. They link several power lines together. I don't know of any computer that allows that. I also don't know of any audio or video equipment that allows that either, other that a couple of industrial models.
this is a godsend for macbook / mac mini / even macbook pro use
because it add processing power for plug ins that would otherwise
completely overload my cpu
and that's on a simple mix (2 guitar, 1-2 vox, bass, 6x drum tracks) where you have at least one plug in per track... so you can see why host controlled is impossible for larger orchestra mixes etc and will definietly cause an increase in CPU power req't and thus heat...
my mac pro eats it up and asks for more (love the 8 cores)
it's an application i can see being useful for video effects too
although i don't know too much about that area (yet)
given that this small external box costs around $500, runs off bus power and prevents you having to upgrade to either a macbook pro or mac pro - it's totally worth it
oh yeah - that's right, apple wants me to buy a pro \
I've seen the unit, and just went to their site. I don't see anything special about this that would REQUIRE FW. USB 2 might be a bit slow, but it's not a technical burden in the sense of competing technologies. Similar devices dowork over USB 2.
But as I've said earlier, I do think Apple dropped FW too early. This maker, and others, will convert their products to USB 3 once it's out, and when the handwriting on the wall now, is rewritten in bold, capital letters.
Comments
so please at least have one smile as you read this
if not shut down your vista toughbook and go for a walk
I'm very happy with the new MB. However, since I want a new desktop I'm waiting to see how the mini gets rev'd. If it's not so hot I'll just get the new MB. 2 USB is just fine for me. I'll get a new camcorder if need be. USB3 is not required.
your so happy with the MB that your not getting one
and dammit now you've just ruined all your arguments because you're flip flopping
USB3 is the best, USB3 is the future, USB3 is so much better than FW, ESata is so much better than FW...
USB2 is all that I require
oh sorry forgot - the MB specs revolve around what u require
HOLD ON WORLD THE MACBOOK SPECS REVOLVE AROUND WHAT VINEA REQUIRES !!
there i think everyone from here to africa heard that... including mr jobs.
But hey, it's easier to call folks that don't agree with you names than actually defend your position.
Right, that's the ONLY argument that cuts any mustard. How about the MB is a consumer laptop and the consumer market doesn't need FW? That most of the screaming has been from pros who don't want to pony up for a MBP.
i'm afraid i'm going to have to stop u right there Vinea and ask for certified statistics to back up the use of the word "most".
oh dear, you really don't understand do you... oh that's right because you use the word "most folks" (previous posts) and "consumer market" (without statistical backing or UN certified definitions) you don't have to understand - you simply get to win ALL the arguments. damnit i hate this game
so are you the kind of person that would congratulate apple if they took off all the connections??? how about a wifi / BT only macbook for Vinea. Jobs? Anyone?
Strawman.
In any case, the likely reason is because the MB IS too good at this point. FW and the expresscard slot are the only real differentiators between the MBP and MB. That is more than a $5 loss to Apple if even MORE cannibalization occurs. Which it will in fairly large number as is because the new MB is an awesome machine in comparison to the old one.
if you had used the word "awesomest" i might have believed you.
ok that's a good idea - in fact it's the most intelligent way to build machines. if you can in fact build an "almost macbook pro" for the price of a macbook then you should do something stupid to it to criple it, to move it back in technology, just so people have to get the macbook pro... (i could add 'in order to feel like they've actually upgraded')
But hey, it's more fun to claim that Apple/Jobs is SO evil he wants to cheat you out of a $5 connector and technological bliss than understanding that they gave you a brilliant new machine and simply do not want to GUT their revenues. Apple ASPs will trend quite a downwards anyway I think.
quite right old chap - a $5 connector would GUT their revenues. well done. yes well done.
oh right... yes because now that my arm is twisted i'm rushing out to buy a MBP because of lack of FW.
shoot! why didn't i think of that superbly sound argument?
yes i most certainly said jobs was evil... not.
ahhh whatever it used to be fun but now it's getting pathetic
but before you go can you just explain "Strawman" pls
hmm must be a cultural reference.... i'm sure it's funny
hang on a tick and i'll wiki it - back in a sec.
oh and a name would be like "Mr Disagree" - which is not what i called you but i did say that you seem to like to disagree -but you don't agree with me on that one do you.
post 1000
(please don't delete, please don't delete)
Well that whole podcasting thing is kinda important to the MB demographic, and Apple makes this GarageBand app that has a lot of audio doohickeys to connect. I'm also assuming that iMovie caters to the MB demographic as well.
I understand that many of the accessories for these purposes are now USB as well, but if I wanted the lowest common denominator user experience, would I have bought a Mac in the first place?
Extremely well said.
Something else interesting... the new MacBooks are available at Amazon, and are ALREADY selling with a $50 rebate, even though they're brand-new.
Is this SOP at Amazon for Macs? Or, is it possible that the new MBs aren't selling quite as well as Apple had hoped?
Get siggy with it.
...
how cool i win
post 1000
(please don't delete, please don't delete)
Nope. You're post #1001 presently, so you're hoping for one delete.
I had post #1000, but there were three deletes, so I lost it. Guess ppl were having their usual 'uncivil' AI debates. Sigh.
I'm sigalicious.
...
I'd wait. Nikon isn't going leave the 5D MkII unanswered for long unless you think it can be a firmware fix.
Nice video though.
The thought in the industry is that Nikon knew Canon was doing video in the 5D mkII, and rushed out the D90 modification to have SOMETHING.
I don't see them matching the mkII for a while. They are thought to be coming out with a higher rez top of line model before too long. But then, Canon is expected to replace their 1Ds mkIII shortly too.
Should be interesting. I'm looking to replace my 5D with the mkII soon, and my daughters 40D with the 50D.
Extremely well said.
Something else interesting... the new MacBooks are available at Amazon, and are ALREADY selling with a $50 rebate, even though they're brand-new.
Is this SOP at Amazon for Macs? Or, is it possible that the new MBs aren't selling quite as well as Apple had hoped?
Get siggy with it.
...
Or at least you hope they aren't selling well. I doubt many are looking at their first two weeks of sales as their long term trend.
yeah FW is 45 W (up to 30V and 1.5 A)
USB 3 is limited to 900mA (see here)and it really depends on the voltage
current USB = 5V max so if it's going to be backwards compatible...
FW is 12 volts. Where did you get the 30 volts from?
Yup, kinda like the iPhone, which has sacrificed a few things in the name of 'thin uber alles'.
Steve is obsessed by form over function... err, I mean, thin. He shoulda been a Paris fashion designer.
Steve (to models): Dahliiiiings, you MUST fit into a SIZE ZERO. This will NEVER do.
Love my sig.
...
I can't think of a thing the iPhone doesn't have. Then again, you don't create stuff on a handheld device.
Of course it matters when performance is monitored. Musicians run firewire because even a %7 hit means you cannot run as many tracks or power is gone for some effects.
For burst data that doesn't require realtime or guaranteed delivery USB is fine but I find it absurd that people have "chosen" USB. With Intel creating USB and shoveling it into every computer there never really was a choice.
Performance is irrelevent. I've said this earlier. When we had slow busses, slow cpu's, and one core, it mattered a great deal.
Now, none of that matters. Even the lowliest computer flies when compared to those old machines.
As time goes on, it will matter even less, if that's even needed.
Before too long, perhaps another year, we will be using four core cpu's in laptops as well.
Cpu utilization is just not an issue. Stop trying to make it one.
Or at least you hope they aren't selling well. I doubt many are looking at their first two weeks of sales as their long term trend.
Apple should certainly hope the first two weeks are phenomenal for MacBook sales. In their analyst conference call they indicated they thought portable sales had slowed prior to the 14th, due to expectations of upgrades. Lots of people were waiting.
But Amazon always offers rebates. I wouldn't read anything into that. MacConnection offers rebates too.
You hit the nail on the head, right there. This is exactly why there's no Firewire on the new MacBook.
The loss is even greater if a user decides to go with a competitor instead. This penny wise pound foolish way of thinking has never served Apple well.
FW is 12 volts. Where did you get the 30 volts from?
yeah the macbook pro has 12V @ 1.5A which Apple somehow limit to 14W
but the standard seems to allow an increase on that
check here
Cpu utilization is just not an issue. Stop trying to make it one.
CPU utilisation so IS an issue - heat !!!!!!
(although if it was only a 7% increase i'd agree - but it's locking people into host controller config then there's no way to add to an existing machine by buying external processors for audio / vid apps)
oh i keep forgetting - audio / vid means i should go buy a pro
Extremely well said.
Something else interesting... the new MacBooks are available at Amazon, and are ALREADY selling with a $50 rebate, even though they're brand-new.
Is this SOP at Amazon for Macs? Or, is it possible that the new MBs aren't selling quite as well as Apple had hoped?
Get siggy with it.
...
Amazon ALWAYS gives a $50 rebate, or more.
yeah the macbook pro has 12V @ 1.5A which Apple somehow limit to 14W
but the standard seems to allow an increase on that
check here
Those are not normal computer ports. They link several power lines together. I don't know of any computer that allows that. I also don't know of any audio or video equipment that allows that either, other that a couple of industrial models.
CPU utilisation so IS an issue - heat !!!!!!
(although if it was only a 7% increase i'd agree - but it's locking people into host controller config then there's no way to add to an existing machine by buying external processors for audio / vid apps)
oh i keep forgetting - audio / vid means i should go buy a pro
No it's not. 7% of 200% is still almost nothing - 3.5%. 200% being both cores.
And exactly what uses do you have that host/controller would prevent?
No it's not. 7% of 200% is still almost nothing - 3.5%. 200% being both cores.
And exactly what uses do you have that host/controller would prevent?
the one i'm using at the moment is the Focusrite Liquid Mix
this is a godsend for macbook / mac mini / even macbook pro use
because it add processing power for plug ins that would otherwise
completely overload my cpu
and that's on a simple mix (2 guitar, 1-2 vox, bass, 6x drum tracks) where you have at least one plug in per track... so you can see why host controlled is impossible for larger orchestra mixes etc and will definietly cause an increase in CPU power req't and thus heat...
my mac pro eats it up and asks for more (love the 8 cores)
it's an application i can see being useful for video effects too
although i don't know too much about that area (yet)
given that this small external box costs around $500, runs off bus power and prevents you having to upgrade to either a macbook pro or mac pro - it's totally worth it
oh yeah - that's right, apple wants me to buy a pro
Those are not normal computer ports. They link several power lines together. I don't know of any computer that allows that. I also don't know of any audio or video equipment that allows that either, other that a couple of industrial models.
gotta disagree with you there Mel
even the old G5 has 25V
but yes the notebooks are limited to 12V for power consumption reasons.
Or at least you hope they aren't selling well. I doubt many are looking at their first two weeks of sales as their long term trend.
Oh, don't be snippy Teno. Too early for that. *smoooooooooch*
Read my sig.
...
the one i'm using at the moment is the Focusrite Liquid Mix
this is a godsend for macbook / mac mini / even macbook pro use
because it add processing power for plug ins that would otherwise
completely overload my cpu
and that's on a simple mix (2 guitar, 1-2 vox, bass, 6x drum tracks) where you have at least one plug in per track... so you can see why host controlled is impossible for larger orchestra mixes etc and will definietly cause an increase in CPU power req't and thus heat...
my mac pro eats it up and asks for more (love the 8 cores)
it's an application i can see being useful for video effects too
although i don't know too much about that area (yet)
given that this small external box costs around $500, runs off bus power and prevents you having to upgrade to either a macbook pro or mac pro - it's totally worth it
oh yeah - that's right, apple wants me to buy a pro
I've seen the unit, and just went to their site. I don't see anything special about this that would REQUIRE FW. USB 2 might be a bit slow, but it's not a technical burden in the sense of competing technologies. Similar devices dowork over USB 2.
But as I've said earlier, I do think Apple dropped FW too early. This maker, and others, will convert their products to USB 3 once it's out, and when the handwriting on the wall now, is rewritten in bold, capital letters.