You say it yourself, a long list of complaints about the removal of FW (not just 400 but altogether) from the MacBook. No one has mentioned the removal of 400 from the Pro simply because it was replaced with 800 on this model. Do you not think that this in itself is symptomatic of a possible error on Apple's behalf? One only needs to look at the popularity of this thread and others like it on other boards to see what an emotive subject it has turned out to be.
Have you recently been to PCWorld? One only has to turn the machine(s) around or look a little closer to see the FireWire / iLink socket even though little or no mention of it is given on the sales blurb (either in-store or on-line).
1) So what if cheap PCs have FW400. Cheap PCs has floppy drives, serial, parallel, VGA ports, etc. long after they were relevant. If you look for FW peripheals at PC World you see how relevant it is. Every HDD will also have USB, and I couldn't find any camcorders that had FW.
2) FW400 wasn't replaced with FW800 in the MBP. It was removed, just like on the MB. The sole FW800 port carried over from last case design.
From everything I've heard, the new MacBook is selling like hotcakes. There was plenty of pent up demand from people who were waiting far into the education cycle and from PC switchers.
I have no doubt that Apple will announce at MWSF that the new machines are a hit. Where they have lost is in sales to their core users, and a serious distraction from the uniqueness of the MacBook's architecture (focusing on what's lost instead of what's new.)
It's nice for folks to claim they are the core users to the exception of all other "core" users that have supported Macs for a long time. I guess any pro not using firewire simply isn't a pro.
Quote:
They've also virtually killed any real street cred they had for Mac-only tech. After the dismal failure of the ADC connector a few years back and now possibly Firewire, Apple is demonstrating that they are wizards at software, but don't have the stomach to really push hardware standards of their own.
Because some battles are worth fighting and others are not. I doubt Apple is lacking hardware street cred these days anyway. Tilting at windmills does not improve one's reputation.
Quote:
Look at how defiantly Sony has promoted Memory Stick. Apple ditched their own interface on the iPod and has now purposely sidelined it in favour of an outside technology that won't even be out in the market for a year.
Yes, but it didn't turn out all that great for Fuji though.
Sony is a different sort of company than Apple. The iPod using USB was a move that allowed Apple to cut costs while being able to support the dominant OS on the market. Which was not and is not OSX.
Mel this doesn't seem to be a response worthy of a 'global moderator' \
most people choose their words careful and actually mean them
if "might" means "all" to you then you obviously read the forums in a different way to most
(and please don't resort to a 'you're new here' response)
on this thread we're all just trying to get to the bottom of why apple removed firewire
for which no one has been able to give (or get) a definitive answer - but many have good ideas
some don't give a hoot about firewire (ok that's fine for them)
some simply want to justify their recent alu MB purchase
some just don't like hearing that apple may have made a poor decision
some think that there's no current alternative to FW (and don't want to see it go)
& other's are more impacted and therefore more passionate about it
from my perspective it's all good - it's been a very informative and on the whole
an intelligent thread
PS i choose my italics carefully too
Actually, you don't choose your words that carefully, while you may think you do.
You are also not very careful in reading other's words, though you think you do there as well.
And please don't give me that moderator silliness please. When they gave me this, I mentioned that very thing. As long as I'm not monitoring a thread, but participating, I can speak with my own voice, which means that if you say things that that are nonsense, as you have, I can point that out the way I choose, as I have always done.
I've always felt that those who distort what is said should be told so in their face, so they won't be so smug about it.
That's the case here.
When you're more careful in your replies, I won't find it necessary to point out your errors.
According to Jobs, they don't do market research, or at least not too much.
Can I please have a link to something that can support that claim?
Quote:
It doesn't matter where the error was, what matters is that they tried a small machine, but it didn't sell well, so they discontinued it.
I think it would matter to shareholders if Apple is putting machines onto the market with little or no market research to justify the R&D + marketing + support etc.
Quote:
The flower power and dalmation color schemes were like Dell offering their models in many colors. Apple had run out if ideas for the old iMacs, and until their new models came out, which were possibly delayed, they offered these rather odd "updates".
I think Apple spent something like eighteen months perfecting injection moulded plastic technology before releasing those iMacs. They definitely had the idea way before the models were released. And the suggestion that Apple could even theoretically run out of ideas must cause Jobsy many a sleepless night. Of course if ideas really were to dry up he could always pull that ace out from his sleeve and put firewire back on the MacBook. The brightest idea of all!
Oh please! Speak for yourself. He's a big boy. We all use the word "might" when we really want to simply say "all" but want an out in case we're wrong. Don't pretend you don't do it also.
It may be true that that sometimes occurs but who are we to decide for other people if that is really happening at any given time?
Can I please have a link to something that can support that claim?
"We do no market research. We don't hire consultants. The only consultants I've ever hired in my 10 years is one firm to analyze Gateway's retail strategy so I would not make some of the same mistakes they made [when launching Apple's retail stores]. But we never hire consultants, per se. We just want to make great products.
"When we created the iTunes Music Store, we did that because we thought it would be great to be able to buy music electronically, not because we had plans to redefine the music industry. I mean, it just seemed like writing on the wall, that eventually all music would be distributed electronically. That seemed obvious because why have the cost? The music industry has huge returns. Why have all this [overhead] when you can just send electrons around easily?"
I think it would matter to shareholders if Apple is putting machines onto the market with little or no market research to justify the R&D + marketing + support etc.
It is obvious that Apple does some kind of market research but not the focus group kind you get from consultants.
That they have duds isn't surprising. It's that they have so few duds since Jobs returned with the corresponding home runs that's interesting and above average. That's why Jobs is so important to Apple.
But hey, you can choose to disbelieve what Jobs says about Apple strategy if you like.
I think it would matter to shareholders if Apple is putting machines onto the market with little or no market research to justify the R&D + marketing + support etc.
The justification is the sales numbers, and profits. Market research means nothing if it results in a wash, as much of it does.
Quote:
I think Apple spent something like eighteen months perfecting injection moulded plastic technology before releasing those iMacs. They definitely had the idea way before the models were released. And the suggestion that Apple could even theoretically run out of ideas must cause Jobsy many a sleepless night. Of course if ideas really were to dry up he could always pull that ace out from his sleeve and put firewire back on the MacBook. The brightest idea of all!
What does the imprinting, on, or in, the plastic have to do with the basic injection molding, which was a very well known technology when Apple started using it?
As I've provided you with the link you asked for, you can show us a link telling of the 18 month research project Apple had in perfecting the injection molding. Not a link showing how they decided on, and perfected the design, but one showing how they perfected the process which was inadequate to manufacture Apple's product. I wasn't aware that plastic injection molding wasn't "perfected" until Apple got into the game.
"We do no market research. We don't hire consultants. The only consultants I've ever hired in my 10 years is one firm to analyze Gateway's retail strategy so I would not make some of the same mistakes they made [when launching Apple's retail stores]. But we never hire consultants, per se. We just want to make great products.
"When we created the iTunes Music Store, we did that because we thought it would be great to be able to buy music electronically, not because we had plans to redefine the music industry. I mean, it just seemed like writing on the wall, that eventually all music would be distributed electronically. That seemed obvious because why have the cost? The music industry has huge returns. Why have all this [overhead] when you can just send electrons around easily?"
It is obvious that Apple does some kind of market research but not the focus group kind you get from consultants.
That they have duds isn't surprising. It's that they have so few duds since Jobs returned with the corresponding home runs that's interesting and above average. That's why Jobs is so important to Apple.
But hey, you can choose to disbelieve what Jobs says about Apple strategy if you like.
Arggh! You got back to the thread before I did, even with the same link!
Yes. Thanks both. I think you'll find it's the only link to that information. I believe it's also true to say that Jobs is bragging when he makes his claims. 'Distorting' is the word that comes to mind.
Quote:
"We don't do market research"
Quote:
"We don't hire consultants per se"
That second line makes things a lot clearer. Let's turn the RDF off for a second. I think he's referring to external market research. We don't do it 'per se'. Why did he say that if they've only hired one consultant in ten years? What is more interesting is that there is obviously a lot of market research that goes into Apple Retail Store locations. How would he explain that one?
I think we should take his comments for what they are: Complete nonsense.
It is similar to Clinton saying "I did not have sex with that woman".
Apple does lot's of market research. Heaps and heaps. You will find evidence of it in almost every Jobs presentation, Ives interview etc.
As I've provided you with the link you asked for, you can show us a link telling of the 18 month research project Apple had in perfecting the injection molding.
I can't at the moment. I said 'I think' as I'm speaking from memory but I can tell you where I think I heard those comments. From Jobs himself at the keynote where he revealed those models.
What does the imprinting, on, or in, the plastic have to do with the basic injection molding, which was a very well known technology when Apple started using it?
Quote:
Steve Jobs:
"The first one is called Flower Power. Let's take a look at it."
The new iMac wheeled forward on its pedestal. "This amazing pattern, said Jobs, "is actually molded right in the plastic. It's not an applied decal."
After a quick search I only came up with that snippet. I'll try to track down the keynote. I'm talking about the technique of injection moulding as carried out by Apple. Here's a later reference to injection moulding (for Cube), again from SJ.
Yes. Thanks both. I think you'll find it's the only link to that information. I believe it's also true to say that Jobs is bragging when he makes his claims. 'Distorting' is the word that comes to mind.
That second line makes things a lot clearer. Let's turn the RDF off for a second. I think he's referring to external market research. We don't do it 'per se'. Why did he say that if they've only hired one consultant in ten years? What is more interesting is that there is obviously a lot of market research that goes into Apple Retail Store locations. How would he explain that one?
I think we should take his comments for what they are: Complete nonsense.
It is similar to Clinton saying "I did not have sex with that woman".
Apple does lot's of market research. Heaps and heaps. You will find evidence of it in almost every Jobs presentation, Ives interview etc.
There's a bit of distortion of your own going on here.
I guess you can say whatever you want to. There's no point in supporting our information with facts, because you won't want to believe them anyway.
After a quick search I only came up with that snippet. I'll try to track down the keynote. I'm talking about the technique of injection moulding as carried out by Apple. Here's a later reference to injection moulding (for Cube), again from SJ.
I read that three times to make sure I didn't miss anything.
It said NOTHING about the manufacture of the cases other than the patterns weren't stamped on, but in the plastic.
That's no development. That's multiple injection technique. It's been used in plastic for decades.
So you won't believe the words of Jobs himself about market research, and come up with a highly tortured explanation that totally distorts his words, but you use a statement by him that says nothing about that you've said, as partial proof of your statement?
Too bad, but it does look as though USB 3 will likely be pushed back to 2010, as some have (hopefully it seemed) guessed.
As I've now said numerous times, I think Apple jumped the gun here, but they are ahead of the trend that will follow more severely, and that has actually started.
But, I do agree with Joel's statements about FW. Or rather, his statements agree with mine.
There are a small number of posters who continue to act like little school girls by primarily posting about each other instead of the subject. Can it stop as it's messing up this thread big time?
I read that three times to make sure I didn't miss anything.
It said NOTHING about the manufacture of the cases other than the patterns weren't stamped on, but in the plastic.
That's no development. That's multiple injection technique. It's been used in plastic for decades.
So you won't believe the words of Jobs himself about market research, and come up with a highly tortured explanation that totally distorts his words, but you use a statement by him that says nothing about that you've said, as partial proof of your statement?
See anything wrong there?
I gave you a reference to where I think Jobs himself mentioned the eighteen months developing the techniques. The only bit I haven't located so far is an actual copy of the keynote address where he introduced those macs (MacWorld Tokyo 2001). When I locate a copy (and I said I was looking for one) I'll extract the necessary quotes. In the meantime I provided some links to what Jobs himself had to say at that same conference. From the links provided it seems that the technique used was new. NOT injection moulding as a technology but the way Apple used it. This was further defined in the other link that states that Apple had to design new injection moulding tools to achieve the results it wanted.
I made it very clear that I am speaking from memory. That's how I remember it from 2001.
Can you provide any links to the type of injection moulding that Apple used prior to it being used by Apple? The reason I ask is, if you can provide such a link, why on earth did SJ even bother to give the issue any keynote space at all? Could it be that the technique was new?
On the other issue I find my comments on Market Research to be far from tortured. I posed a question. Why did he throw 'per se' into the picture if Apple doesn't use MR?
Comments
You say it yourself, a long list of complaints about the removal of FW (not just 400 but altogether) from the MacBook. No one has mentioned the removal of 400 from the Pro simply because it was replaced with 800 on this model. Do you not think that this in itself is symptomatic of a possible error on Apple's behalf? One only needs to look at the popularity of this thread and others like it on other boards to see what an emotive subject it has turned out to be.
Have you recently been to PCWorld? One only has to turn the machine(s) around or look a little closer to see the FireWire / iLink socket even though little or no mention of it is given on the sales blurb (either in-store or on-line).
1) So what if cheap PCs have FW400. Cheap PCs has floppy drives, serial, parallel, VGA ports, etc. long after they were relevant. If you look for FW peripheals at PC World you see how relevant it is. Every HDD will also have USB, and I couldn't find any camcorders that had FW.
2) FW400 wasn't replaced with FW800 in the MBP. It was removed, just like on the MB. The sole FW800 port carried over from last case design.
From everything I've heard, the new MacBook is selling like hotcakes. There was plenty of pent up demand from people who were waiting far into the education cycle and from PC switchers.
I have no doubt that Apple will announce at MWSF that the new machines are a hit. Where they have lost is in sales to their core users, and a serious distraction from the uniqueness of the MacBook's architecture (focusing on what's lost instead of what's new.)
It's nice for folks to claim they are the core users to the exception of all other "core" users that have supported Macs for a long time. I guess any pro not using firewire simply isn't a pro.
They've also virtually killed any real street cred they had for Mac-only tech. After the dismal failure of the ADC connector a few years back and now possibly Firewire, Apple is demonstrating that they are wizards at software, but don't have the stomach to really push hardware standards of their own.
Because some battles are worth fighting and others are not. I doubt Apple is lacking hardware street cred these days anyway. Tilting at windmills does not improve one's reputation.
Look at how defiantly Sony has promoted Memory Stick. Apple ditched their own interface on the iPod and has now purposely sidelined it in favour of an outside technology that won't even be out in the market for a year.
Yes, but it didn't turn out all that great for Fuji though.
Sony is a different sort of company than Apple. The iPod using USB was a move that allowed Apple to cut costs while being able to support the dominant OS on the market. Which was not and is not OSX.
Mel this doesn't seem to be a response worthy of a 'global moderator'
most people choose their words careful and actually mean them
if "might" means "all" to you then you obviously read the forums in a different way to most
(and please don't resort to a 'you're new here' response)
on this thread we're all just trying to get to the bottom of why apple removed firewire
for which no one has been able to give (or get) a definitive answer - but many have good ideas
some don't give a hoot about firewire (ok that's fine for them)
some simply want to justify their recent alu MB purchase
some just don't like hearing that apple may have made a poor decision
some think that there's no current alternative to FW (and don't want to see it go)
& other's are more impacted and therefore more passionate about it
from my perspective it's all good - it's been a very informative and on the whole
an intelligent thread
PS i choose my italics carefully too
Actually, you don't choose your words that carefully, while you may think you do.
You are also not very careful in reading other's words, though you think you do there as well.
And please don't give me that moderator silliness please. When they gave me this, I mentioned that very thing. As long as I'm not monitoring a thread, but participating, I can speak with my own voice, which means that if you say things that that are nonsense, as you have, I can point that out the way I choose, as I have always done.
I've always felt that those who distort what is said should be told so in their face, so they won't be so smug about it.
That's the case here.
When you're more careful in your replies, I won't find it necessary to point out your errors.
What does "my way of admitting" mean?
It means what it means.
According to Jobs, they don't do market research, or at least not too much.
Can I please have a link to something that can support that claim?
It doesn't matter where the error was, what matters is that they tried a small machine, but it didn't sell well, so they discontinued it.
I think it would matter to shareholders if Apple is putting machines onto the market with little or no market research to justify the R&D + marketing + support etc.
The flower power and dalmation color schemes were like Dell offering their models in many colors. Apple had run out if ideas for the old iMacs, and until their new models came out, which were possibly delayed, they offered these rather odd "updates".
I think Apple spent something like eighteen months perfecting injection moulded plastic technology before releasing those iMacs. They definitely had the idea way before the models were released. And the suggestion that Apple could even theoretically run out of ideas must cause Jobsy many a sleepless night. Of course if ideas really were to dry up he could always pull that ace out from his sleeve and put firewire back on the MacBook. The brightest idea of all!
Oh please! Speak for yourself. He's a big boy. We all use the word "might" when we really want to simply say "all" but want an out in case we're wrong. Don't pretend you don't do it also.
It may be true that that sometimes occurs but who are we to decide for other people if that is really happening at any given time?
Can I please have a link to something that can support that claim?
"We do no market research. We don't hire consultants. The only consultants I've ever hired in my 10 years is one firm to analyze Gateway's retail strategy so I would not make some of the same mistakes they made [when launching Apple's retail stores]. But we never hire consultants, per se. We just want to make great products.
"When we created the iTunes Music Store, we did that because we thought it would be great to be able to buy music electronically, not because we had plans to redefine the music industry. I mean, it just seemed like writing on the wall, that eventually all music would be distributed electronically. That seemed obvious because why have the cost? The music industry has huge returns. Why have all this [overhead] when you can just send electrons around easily?"
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/...fortune/3.html
I think it would matter to shareholders if Apple is putting machines onto the market with little or no market research to justify the R&D + marketing + support etc.
It is obvious that Apple does some kind of market research but not the focus group kind you get from consultants.
That they have duds isn't surprising. It's that they have so few duds since Jobs returned with the corresponding home runs that's interesting and above average. That's why Jobs is so important to Apple.
But hey, you can choose to disbelieve what Jobs says about Apple strategy if you like.
It means what it means.
In other words?nothing.
Can I please have a link to something that can support that claim?
Sure, there are plenty. Here's one:
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/...fortune/3.html
I think it would matter to shareholders if Apple is putting machines onto the market with little or no market research to justify the R&D + marketing + support etc.
The justification is the sales numbers, and profits. Market research means nothing if it results in a wash, as much of it does.
I think Apple spent something like eighteen months perfecting injection moulded plastic technology before releasing those iMacs. They definitely had the idea way before the models were released. And the suggestion that Apple could even theoretically run out of ideas must cause Jobsy many a sleepless night. Of course if ideas really were to dry up he could always pull that ace out from his sleeve and put firewire back on the MacBook. The brightest idea of all!
What does the imprinting, on, or in, the plastic have to do with the basic injection molding, which was a very well known technology when Apple started using it?
As I've provided you with the link you asked for, you can show us a link telling of the 18 month research project Apple had in perfecting the injection molding. Not a link showing how they decided on, and perfected the design, but one showing how they perfected the process which was inadequate to manufacture Apple's product. I wasn't aware that plastic injection molding wasn't "perfected" until Apple got into the game.
It may be true that that sometimes occurs but who are we to decide for other people if that is really happening at any given time?
That was the point to my reply.
"We do no market research. We don't hire consultants. The only consultants I've ever hired in my 10 years is one firm to analyze Gateway's retail strategy so I would not make some of the same mistakes they made [when launching Apple's retail stores]. But we never hire consultants, per se. We just want to make great products.
"When we created the iTunes Music Store, we did that because we thought it would be great to be able to buy music electronically, not because we had plans to redefine the music industry. I mean, it just seemed like writing on the wall, that eventually all music would be distributed electronically. That seemed obvious because why have the cost? The music industry has huge returns. Why have all this [overhead] when you can just send electrons around easily?"
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/...fortune/3.html
It is obvious that Apple does some kind of market research but not the focus group kind you get from consultants.
That they have duds isn't surprising. It's that they have so few duds since Jobs returned with the corresponding home runs that's interesting and above average. That's why Jobs is so important to Apple.
But hey, you can choose to disbelieve what Jobs says about Apple strategy if you like.
Arggh! You got back to the thread before I did, even with the same link!
"We don't do market research"
"We don't hire consultants per se"
That second line makes things a lot clearer. Let's turn the RDF off for a second. I think he's referring to external market research. We don't do it 'per se'. Why did he say that if they've only hired one consultant in ten years? What is more interesting is that there is obviously a lot of market research that goes into Apple Retail Store locations. How would he explain that one?
I think we should take his comments for what they are: Complete nonsense.
It is similar to Clinton saying "I did not have sex with that woman".
Apple does lot's of market research. Heaps and heaps. You will find evidence of it in almost every Jobs presentation, Ives interview etc.
As I've provided you with the link you asked for, you can show us a link telling of the 18 month research project Apple had in perfecting the injection molding.
I can't at the moment. I said 'I think' as I'm speaking from memory but I can tell you where I think I heard those comments. From Jobs himself at the keynote where he revealed those models.
What does the imprinting, on, or in, the plastic have to do with the basic injection molding, which was a very well known technology when Apple started using it?
Steve Jobs:
"The first one is called Flower Power. Let's take a look at it."
The new iMac wheeled forward on its pedestal. "This amazing pattern, said Jobs, "is actually molded right in the plastic. It's not an applied decal."
LINK
After a quick search I only came up with that snippet. I'll try to track down the keynote. I'm talking about the technique of injection moulding as carried out by Apple. Here's a later reference to injection moulding (for Cube), again from SJ.
Yes. Thanks both. I think you'll find it's the only link to that information. I believe it's also true to say that Jobs is bragging when he makes his claims. 'Distorting' is the word that comes to mind.
That second line makes things a lot clearer. Let's turn the RDF off for a second. I think he's referring to external market research. We don't do it 'per se'. Why did he say that if they've only hired one consultant in ten years? What is more interesting is that there is obviously a lot of market research that goes into Apple Retail Store locations. How would he explain that one?
I think we should take his comments for what they are: Complete nonsense.
It is similar to Clinton saying "I did not have sex with that woman".
Apple does lot's of market research. Heaps and heaps. You will find evidence of it in almost every Jobs presentation, Ives interview etc.
There's a bit of distortion of your own going on here.
I guess you can say whatever you want to. There's no point in supporting our information with facts, because you won't want to believe them anyway.
LINK
After a quick search I only came up with that snippet. I'll try to track down the keynote. I'm talking about the technique of injection moulding as carried out by Apple. Here's a later reference to injection moulding (for Cube), again from SJ.
I read that three times to make sure I didn't miss anything.
It said NOTHING about the manufacture of the cases other than the patterns weren't stamped on, but in the plastic.
That's no development. That's multiple injection technique. It's been used in plastic for decades.
So you won't believe the words of Jobs himself about market research, and come up with a highly tortured explanation that totally distorts his words, but you use a statement by him that says nothing about that you've said, as partial proof of your statement?
See anything wrong there?
Too bad, but it does look as though USB 3 will likely be pushed back to 2010, as some have (hopefully it seemed) guessed.
As I've now said numerous times, I think Apple jumped the gun here, but they are ahead of the trend that will follow more severely, and that has actually started.
But, I do agree with Joel's statements about FW. Or rather, his statements agree with mine.
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...s-in-2010.html
Apparently, we're all right to some extent. It's should (hopefully) to be in computers in late 2009, but consumer devices will arrive in 2010.
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/0,1...9554846,00.htm
Microsoft's view on FW
and this is a good summary of the situation
by Oxford semiconductor
note the CPU load of USB vs FW
and that FW800 has the bandwidth to "meet current maximum hard drive performance"
(ie USB3 or ESata won't get you any further - not to say that they're not faster per se)
I read that three times to make sure I didn't miss anything.
It said NOTHING about the manufacture of the cases other than the patterns weren't stamped on, but in the plastic.
That's no development. That's multiple injection technique. It's been used in plastic for decades.
So you won't believe the words of Jobs himself about market research, and come up with a highly tortured explanation that totally distorts his words, but you use a statement by him that says nothing about that you've said, as partial proof of your statement?
See anything wrong there?
I gave you a reference to where I think Jobs himself mentioned the eighteen months developing the techniques. The only bit I haven't located so far is an actual copy of the keynote address where he introduced those macs (MacWorld Tokyo 2001). When I locate a copy (and I said I was looking for one) I'll extract the necessary quotes. In the meantime I provided some links to what Jobs himself had to say at that same conference. From the links provided it seems that the technique used was new. NOT injection moulding as a technology but the way Apple used it. This was further defined in the other link that states that Apple had to design new injection moulding tools to achieve the results it wanted.
I made it very clear that I am speaking from memory. That's how I remember it from 2001.
Can you provide any links to the type of injection moulding that Apple used prior to it being used by Apple? The reason I ask is, if you can provide such a link, why on earth did SJ even bother to give the issue any keynote space at all? Could it be that the technique was new?
On the other issue I find my comments on Market Research to be far from tortured. I posed a question. Why did he throw 'per se' into the picture if Apple doesn't use MR?
My explanation is very clear.