Right, pro choice does not mean you want people to have abortions. It means you support the right to the choice.
As an aside.
The millions of dollars Bush has spent on abstinence education. The results have been an increase in unwanted teen pregnancy and an increase in teen abortions. You never fix a problem from with holding proper education that empowers people.
Can you imagine how many abortions there'd be if zinfella got his way and made masturbation illegal.
Can you imagine how many abortions there'd be if zinfella got his way and made masturbation illegal.
Wasn't masturbation punishable by death? On a similar note, wasn't raping a women was fine, but the women who was victimized was stoned to death if she every admitted to the act?
I think ZInfella stated that he has 8 kids, this more than likely points to his religion being Catholicism which feels contraception a mortal sin.
From the standpoint that one's belief in a particular religion is based heavily on the beliefs on your caregivers, it makes sense to not believe in contraception in order to out populate other religions, but these archaic view points set long before the age of enlightenment, that are still being followed blindly today, without question, shows just how desperate and fearful so many are to believe that they have not wasted their life believing in something that is complete BS, even if it means constantly lying to themselves and their loved ones in a vein attempt to save face.
On a similar note, wasn't raping a women was fine, but the women who was victimized was stoned to death if she every admitted to the act?
I absolutely picture Zinfella as one of the stoners. And not the Cheech and Ching type of stoner, either.
But seriously... that story was heartbreaking. Fuck all religious fundamentalism. Fuck it all. If Atheism means we won't have scary bullshit like this, then by all means, give us atheism.
I absolutely picture Zinfella as one of the stoners. And not the Cheech and Ching type of stoner, either.
But seriously... that story was heartbreaking. Fuck all religious fundamentalism. Fuck it all. If Atheism means we won't have scary bullshit like this, then by all means, give us atheism.
I didn't mean to imply that Zinfella is okay with rape or stoning of women. Save for homosexual women, I doubt that he would agree with that as I have faith that even he isn't that medieval in his religious convictions. Though I do have a feeling that may agree with Palin's stance that women should pay for their own rape kits.
As for atheism, I lean more to agnosticism. I feel the entirety of the universe to complex for our mortal brains to comprehend so we should focus on the how we can make ourselves and this world better before we start ruling our lives and justifying horrible actions because ancient made up stories about beings with magic powers and grandiose promises tells us to.
Ya know what ironic about all of this? Most of you guys are Obama supporters. Obama caused a lot of black people to vote that ordinarily don't bother. Well, all of those extra black voters go to the polls in California, and vote for Obama. But, it doesn't end there, because while most of them are liberal, they have strong family values. That causes them to vote for prop 8, and the final tally was blacks vote 70% t0 30% in favor of prop 8.
Ya know what ironic about all of this? Most of you guys are Obama supporters. Obama caused a lot of black people to vote that ordinarily don't bother. Well, all of those extra black voters go to the polls in California, and vote for Obama. But, it doesn't end there, because while most of them are liberal, they have strong family values. That causes them to vote for prop 8, and the final tally was blacks vote 70% t0 30% in favor of prop 8.
Be careful what you wish for. ROFL
Obviously when you have an African-American running for president you are going to have more African-American voters come to the polls, but Barack was able to get 45% of all white voters, which is excessively high for a Democrat. For comparison, Clinton only had 39% of all white voters.
As for the family values, it has nothing to do with that. It was about religious values that African-Americans voted yes on Prop 8. While religious values do carry over into one's family values, family values are not effect, not cause for the closed minded decisions. Just as, I assume, you probably would have voted against interracial marriage in your younger days. If you live another decade or two you will see this same sex marriage or the abolition of marriage from the state as a whole will occur. It's inevitable, and history has shown that you bigotry can only delay human liberties, not stop them.
It is very sad that society has come to this level of moral confusion and degradation. Marriage is a religious institution and covenant made between man and woman before God for the purpose of procreation and family.
Sexual intercourse can only happen between a man and woman's organs, other forms of "sex" outside of that are sodomy and masturbation. These other forms are pathetic, demeaning and disrespectful to your body and anyone else's involved.
With a clear conscience and in your better judgment you would realize these practices can in NO WAY be respectful or loving. They are lust based forms of domination and abuse. The fact that lust masquerades as love shows how confused so many are.
Love requires respect, sodomy is abuse as it is clear which area of our body was designed for sex and procreation. You can lie to yourself and deny it to continue your lusts and abuse, but deep down in your conscience you know it is wrong and abusive conduct. The trouble is so many, and most on forums such as these dedicated to OCD obsession over things, have lost all touch with their conscience, morality and better judgment.
I am glad this attempt to subvert the meaning of marriage is being challenged and several states have accepted the proposal to clearly define it in the way the founding Father and the Bible does, between one man and one woman.
Sodomy should not be associated with Marriage. Marriage is intended for sexual intercourse leading to children, family and a structured and respectful society.
The fact some married couples defile their bed with sodomy just shows how degenerate they have become and does not make it right or excusable.
It is very clear what the role of our sex organs are for and the only natural and morally respectful and right sexual function for them is intercourse, which can only happen between male and female organs. every other form is simulated abuse of areas not designed for the organs.
This is not a human rights issue. All people are born with equal rights, seeking to make sodomy a form of "marriage" is wrong as it is counter what marriage is about. Marriage is a holy ceremony and tradition between the male and female for the production of new life and family.
Nor do those who are defending marriages sanctity and purpose hate, fear or want to destroy those who call themselves gay. Nor would they condone any abuse or murder of those humans who practice perversion without care.
God will judge all our souls, and abuse has its consequences, whether its sexual abuse or physical violence, God does not want this. We should repent, for the sake of our soul and eternal destiny, of those deeds which violate and abuse ourself and others.
The modern day abuse and witch hunts are increasingly turning against those who defend sanctity, decency, morality and right conduct.
Obviously when you have an African-American running for president you are going to have more African-American voters come to the polls, but Barack was able to get 45% of all white voters, which is excessively high for a Democrat. For comparison, Clinton only had 39% of all white voters.
As for the family values, it has nothing to do with that. It was about religious values that African-Americans voted yes on Prop 8. While religious values do carry over into one's family values, family values are not effect, not cause for the closed minded decisions. Just as, I assume, you probably would have voted against interracial marriage in your younger days. If you live another decade or two you will see this same sex marriage or the abolition of marriage from the state as a whole will occur. It's inevitable, and history has shown that you bigotry can only delay human liberties, not stop them.
Anyone that doesn't agree with you is a bigot. And you talk about tolerance.
Anyone that doesn't agree with you is a bigot. And you talk about tolerance.
I have stated previously that I don't expect you to change your views. I just want to realize that any short term victory you may have will be short lived.
Bigots have tried to stop the slaves from being freed.. and yet now we have a black president. Bigots tried to prevents women from voting... and yet we almost had a female VP.
Bigots tried to prevent interracial marriages... and yet we have a president who is a result of such a union.
I disagree with your hatred toward non-white males, but I have no problem with your ability to express your views. "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"? ~Evelyn Beatrice Hall
You want everyone to see a gay marriage as the same as a heterosexual marriage, and that ain't happen'in Bro! If you can't see the difference, then you're blind. This gay movement to fool everyone into thinking that there's no difference is very detrimental to the fabric of society.
It's got nothing to do with hate, jerk! We already have civil unions which give gay couples the same rights. Nobody is having a fit over that, it's when you want to re-define an institution nearly as old as mankind to suit your own purposes that causes the ire of the majority. The people of California in particular didn't like having gay marriage stuffed down their throat by activist judges after having previously voted against it. You're in the minority, most people do not want what you want. You lost.
It's f'ing over, get used to it!
Civil unions are being banned for gays- isn't that a fit?
GoldenLight: If you are not writing these insane screeds from a psychiatric care facility, please get some help very soon, because you are a danger to yourself and society.
webraider: if you couldn't have expressed that totally incoherent deranged babble any better yourself, you need to check into the skull ranch as well.
zinfella: I have already made it clear that you are the biggest fucking idiot I have ever encountered--you know absolutely nothing and yet you think you're a fount of knowledge. If I didn't know better, I'd think you were Sarah Palin! (And lay off the obnoxious smilies; it makes you look like an even greater goober than we know you are.)
Twenty years ago it would have been inconceivable.
Can we extrapolate into the future?
C.
Actually no, not at all because you have to look at the %'s of those who firmly hold to their religious beliefs over the past 20+ years. When you come to realize that it was BO's recruitment of the Hispanic vote that mostly likely caused this Prop to pass you'll see that since (statistically speaking) Hispanics are having children at a much higher rate than any other nationality and combined with the fact that Hispanics are, again statistically speaking, more likely to adhere to Catholic tradition it leads you to the realization that extrapolating based on just a few data points will give you nothing but erroneous results.
Also, on a side note, I've NEVER seen a state gov't (San Fran Mayor and State courts to be exact) marginalize the majority quite like CA has. It really undermines the basis of democracy. Maybe someday it will be repealed (but not nearly as soon as sol' believes) but that doesn't mean you have to undermine the entire basis of gov't to make it happen. Right or wrong I think we should all agree that undermining the will of the majority is corrupt and has no place in a Democracy.
A constitution is constructed to protect minorities, not the majority.
As I said above, the entire concept of human rights is to protect the minority from oppression by the majority.
Please educate yourself.
Yes, it was. And all the things that aren't in there were left to the will of the majority... Hate the premise of democracy all you want, I don't personally care. The fact of the matter is that none of the civil rights advances have come without the majority agreeing with it (look it up). Even Roe v Wade was supported by the majority of Americans (assuming you can trust the polls).
As for the racial %'s - is that an official gov't doc or is that just an exit poll?
EDIT: Also, compared to whites Latinos are more socially conservative (at least on this one) and their % of the population in CA is going to do nothing but grow whereas the % of blacks is projected to stay roughly the same (maybe drop a little) and whites will continue to drop. I'd like to see a data point that plots religious affiliation against yes/no for prop 8 (if they even have that data). Younger people, statistically speaking, tend to be more socially liberal than their older counter parts.
Comments
Right, pro choice does not mean you want people to have abortions. It means you support the right to the choice.
As an aside.
The millions of dollars Bush has spent on abstinence education. The results have been an increase in unwanted teen pregnancy and an increase in teen abortions. You never fix a problem from with holding proper education that empowers people.
Can you imagine how many abortions there'd be if zinfella got his way and made masturbation illegal.
Can you imagine how many abortions there'd be if zinfella got his way and made masturbation illegal.
Wasn't masturbation punishable by death? On a similar note, wasn't raping a women was fine, but the women who was victimized was stoned to death if she every admitted to the act?
I think ZInfella stated that he has 8 kids, this more than likely points to his religion being Catholicism which feels contraception a mortal sin.
From the standpoint that one's belief in a particular religion is based heavily on the beliefs on your caregivers, it makes sense to not believe in contraception in order to out populate other religions, but these archaic view points set long before the age of enlightenment, that are still being followed blindly today, without question, shows just how desperate and fearful so many are to believe that they have not wasted their life believing in something that is complete BS, even if it means constantly lying to themselves and their loved ones in a vein attempt to save face.
On a similar note, wasn't raping a women was fine, but the women who was victimized was stoned to death if she every admitted to the act?
I absolutely picture Zinfella as one of the stoners. And not the Cheech and Ching type of stoner, either.
But seriously... that story was heartbreaking. Fuck all religious fundamentalism. Fuck it all. If Atheism means we won't have scary bullshit like this, then by all means, give us atheism.
I absolutely picture Zinfella as one of the stoners. And not the Cheech and Ching type of stoner, either.
But seriously... that story was heartbreaking. Fuck all religious fundamentalism. Fuck it all. If Atheism means we won't have scary bullshit like this, then by all means, give us atheism.
I didn't mean to imply that Zinfella is okay with rape or stoning of women. Save for homosexual women, I doubt that he would agree with that as I have faith that even he isn't that medieval in his religious convictions. Though I do have a feeling that may agree with Palin's stance that women should pay for their own rape kits.
As for atheism, I lean more to agnosticism. I feel the entirety of the universe to complex for our mortal brains to comprehend so we should focus on the how we can make ourselves and this world better before we start ruling our lives and justifying horrible actions because ancient made up stories about beings with magic powers and grandiose promises tells us to.
Be careful what you wish for. ROFL
Ya know what ironic about all of this? Most of you guys are Obama supporters. Obama caused a lot of black people to vote that ordinarily don't bother. Well, all of those extra black voters go to the polls in California, and vote for Obama. But, it doesn't end there, because while most of them are liberal, they have strong family values. That causes them to vote for prop 8, and the final tally was blacks vote 70% t0 30% in favor of prop 8.
Be careful what you wish for. ROFL
Obviously when you have an African-American running for president you are going to have more African-American voters come to the polls, but Barack was able to get 45% of all white voters, which is excessively high for a Democrat. For comparison, Clinton only had 39% of all white voters.
As for the family values, it has nothing to do with that. It was about religious values that African-Americans voted yes on Prop 8. While religious values do carry over into one's family values, family values are not effect, not cause for the closed minded decisions. Just as, I assume, you probably would have voted against interracial marriage in your younger days. If you live another decade or two you will see this same sex marriage or the abolition of marriage from the state as a whole will occur. It's inevitable, and history has shown that you bigotry can only delay human liberties, not stop them.
It is very sad that society has come to this level of moral confusion and degradation. Marriage is a religious institution and covenant made between man and woman before God for the purpose of procreation and family.
Sexual intercourse can only happen between a man and woman's organs, other forms of "sex" outside of that are sodomy and masturbation. These other forms are pathetic, demeaning and disrespectful to your body and anyone else's involved.
With a clear conscience and in your better judgment you would realize these practices can in NO WAY be respectful or loving. They are lust based forms of domination and abuse. The fact that lust masquerades as love shows how confused so many are.
Love requires respect, sodomy is abuse as it is clear which area of our body was designed for sex and procreation. You can lie to yourself and deny it to continue your lusts and abuse, but deep down in your conscience you know it is wrong and abusive conduct. The trouble is so many, and most on forums such as these dedicated to OCD obsession over things, have lost all touch with their conscience, morality and better judgment.
I am glad this attempt to subvert the meaning of marriage is being challenged and several states have accepted the proposal to clearly define it in the way the founding Father and the Bible does, between one man and one woman.
Sodomy should not be associated with Marriage. Marriage is intended for sexual intercourse leading to children, family and a structured and respectful society.
The fact some married couples defile their bed with sodomy just shows how degenerate they have become and does not make it right or excusable.
It is very clear what the role of our sex organs are for and the only natural and morally respectful and right sexual function for them is intercourse, which can only happen between male and female organs. every other form is simulated abuse of areas not designed for the organs.
This is not a human rights issue. All people are born with equal rights, seeking to make sodomy a form of "marriage" is wrong as it is counter what marriage is about. Marriage is a holy ceremony and tradition between the male and female for the production of new life and family.
Nor do those who are defending marriages sanctity and purpose hate, fear or want to destroy those who call themselves gay. Nor would they condone any abuse or murder of those humans who practice perversion without care.
God will judge all our souls, and abuse has its consequences, whether its sexual abuse or physical violence, God does not want this. We should repent, for the sake of our soul and eternal destiny, of those deeds which violate and abuse ourself and others.
The modern day abuse and witch hunts are increasingly turning against those who defend sanctity, decency, morality and right conduct.
I couldn't have said it better myself!
Obviously when you have an African-American running for president you are going to have more African-American voters come to the polls, but Barack was able to get 45% of all white voters, which is excessively high for a Democrat. For comparison, Clinton only had 39% of all white voters.
As for the family values, it has nothing to do with that. It was about religious values that African-Americans voted yes on Prop 8. While religious values do carry over into one's family values, family values are not effect, not cause for the closed minded decisions. Just as, I assume, you probably would have voted against interracial marriage in your younger days. If you live another decade or two you will see this same sex marriage or the abolition of marriage from the state as a whole will occur. It's inevitable, and history has shown that you bigotry can only delay human liberties, not stop them.
Anyone that doesn't agree with you is a bigot. And you talk about tolerance.
Anyone that doesn't agree with you is a bigot. And you talk about tolerance.
I have stated previously that I don't expect you to change your views. I just want to realize that any short term victory you may have will be short lived.
Bigots have tried to stop the slaves from being freed.. and yet now we have a black president. Bigots tried to prevents women from voting... and yet we almost had a female VP.
Bigots tried to prevent interracial marriages... and yet we have a president who is a result of such a union.
I disagree with your hatred toward non-white males, but I have no problem with your ability to express your views. "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"? ~Evelyn Beatrice Hall
You want everyone to see a gay marriage as the same as a heterosexual marriage, and that ain't happen'in Bro! If you can't see the difference, then you're blind. This gay movement to fool everyone into thinking that there's no difference is very detrimental to the fabric of society.
It's got nothing to do with hate, jerk! We already have civil unions which give gay couples the same rights. Nobody is having a fit over that, it's when you want to re-define an institution nearly as old as mankind to suit your own purposes that causes the ire of the majority. The people of California in particular didn't like having gay marriage stuffed down their throat by activist judges after having previously voted against it. You're in the minority, most people do not want what you want. You lost.
It's f'ing over, get used to it!
Civil unions are being banned for gays- isn't that a fit?
webraider: if you couldn't have expressed that totally incoherent deranged babble any better yourself, you need to check into the skull ranch as well.
zinfella: I have already made it clear that you are the biggest fucking idiot I have ever encountered--you know absolutely nothing and yet you think you're a fount of knowledge. If I didn't know better, I'd think you were Sarah Palin! (And lay off the obnoxious smilies; it makes you look like an even greater goober than we know you are.)
Ten years ago it would have been 70%
Twenty years ago it would have been inconceivable.
Can we extrapolate into the future?
C.
Anyone that doesn't agree with you is a bigot. And you talk about tolerance.
My opinion is that blacks and women should have the right to vote.
Is it not true that anyone that doesn't agree with me is a bigot?
Prop 8 got 52% support.
Ten years ago it would have been 70%
Twenty years ago it would have been inconceivable.
Can we extrapolate into the future?
C.
Actually no, not at all because you have to look at the %'s of those who firmly hold to their religious beliefs over the past 20+ years. When you come to realize that it was BO's recruitment of the Hispanic vote that mostly likely caused this Prop to pass you'll see that since (statistically speaking) Hispanics are having children at a much higher rate than any other nationality and combined with the fact that Hispanics are, again statistically speaking, more likely to adhere to Catholic tradition it leads you to the realization that extrapolating based on just a few data points will give you nothing but erroneous results.
Also, on a side note, I've NEVER seen a state gov't (San Fran Mayor and State courts to be exact) marginalize the majority quite like CA has. It really undermines the basis of democracy. Maybe someday it will be repealed (but not nearly as soon as sol' believes) but that doesn't mean you have to undermine the entire basis of gov't to make it happen. Right or wrong I think we should all agree that undermining the will of the majority is corrupt and has no place in a Democracy.
When you come to realize that it was BO's recruitment of the Hispanic vote that mostly likely caused this Prop to fail...
First, I think you meant pass, not fail.
Second...
It warn't the Latinos.
Right or wrong I think we should all agree that undermining the will of the majority is corrupt and has no place in a Democracy.
You make it sound like undermining the rights of minorities is an inevitable consequence of Democracy in action.
C.
Right or wrong I think we should all agree that undermining the will of the majority is corrupt and has no place in a Democracy.
Um... wrong?
In fact, how could anyone be so wrong?
A constitution is constructed to protect minorities, not the majority.
As I said above, the entire concept of human rights is to protect the minority from oppression by the majority.
Please educate yourself.
Further to my post above, I think the following utterly blows the shit out of bigmc's premise...
image: ]http://homepage.mac.com/bentonton/latinos.png
Where did you get these stats. I'd like to see the age breakdown for the other groups.
Um... wrong?
In fact, how could anyone be so wrong?
A constitution is constructed to protect minorities, not the majority.
As I said above, the entire concept of human rights is to protect the minority from oppression by the majority.
Please educate yourself.
Yes, it was. And all the things that aren't in there were left to the will of the majority... Hate the premise of democracy all you want, I don't personally care. The fact of the matter is that none of the civil rights advances have come without the majority agreeing with it (look it up). Even Roe v Wade was supported by the majority of Americans (assuming you can trust the polls).
As for the racial %'s - is that an official gov't doc or is that just an exit poll?
EDIT: Also, compared to whites Latinos are more socially conservative (at least on this one) and their % of the population in CA is going to do nothing but grow whereas the % of blacks is projected to stay roughly the same (maybe drop a little) and whites will continue to drop. I'd like to see a data point that plots religious affiliation against yes/no for prop 8 (if they even have that data). Younger people, statistically speaking, tend to be more socially liberal than their older counter parts.