A.) I don't care how many customers or employees this affects, Apple still has no business supporting social issues. It is a democratic vote by the people, and everyone else needs to shut their face. The PEOPLE will decide how they want to be governed. Majority rules in a democratic situation. Deal with it. In fact, I think it will hurt Apple more, as MORE people object to the idea overall. Homosexual marriage has historically been voted down time and time again, though single legislating judges feel it is their right to over rule the PEOPLE.
B.) MARRIAGE IS NOT A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT! I challenge any one of you to find it in the Constitution. You will not/cannot find it. So therefore, the 14th Amendment DOES NOT protect MARRIAGE (homosexual or otherwise) for it's citizens.
A) Problem is, it's not that simple. 2/3 of all "yes for Prop 8" funds came from outside of CA, specifically mormons in UT and AZ. They don't have any business pushing their agenda in CA which is decidedly more liberal than their states.
Equality is a god-given right, even according to religious freaks.
That damned right wing Harper! But seriously, when you say "this Gay thing is wrong", what exactly do you mean? What is this 'thing' and what is it that is so wrong?
I honestly can't believe the ignorance and bigotry ON AN APPLE FORUM!
I also think you need to revise your study.
Evolution by its definition produces "non standard" that would be, in this instance, those unlikely to reproduce, its one of the basic BASIC principals.
---
Blinkered BLINKERED unthinking people posting here..
and from a group of people who hold up the value to think different..
Don't you think you are stretching it a bit, simply to prove his very valid point (whether his conclusion of Darwinism was right or not) wrong?
Here in Arizona, we have a constitutional amendment on the ballot that simply defines marriage as being between one man and one woman. It will pass, and I will vote for it. I hope it also passes in California.
That I got the heck out of Arizona!
(Just kidding...it was mostly cause of that idiot Sheriff Joe!!!)
The catholic church has forbidden women from becoming priests for centuries and I'll be shocked if that ever changes. You really think people can get religions to change by suing them?
I think it is pointless and silly for Apple to be making a stance on these issues. Especially being that in California same sex couples receive virtually the same legal protections as married couples; namely rights of property, tax rights, retirement program rights, employment rights, and other legal benefits. I am completely in favor of all these benefits and hope to see them adopted nationwide.
But here are a few points to explain why I am voting YES on Prop 8. My position is the same as both presidential candidates and their running mates (as were clearly stated in recent VP debate) in maintaining the traditional definition of "marriage" as being between one man and one woman.
I would also be more than happy to provide additional citations for any of these claims.
What do those opposing Proposition 8 want?
1. Those opposing Proposition 8 want same sex marriage taught in school, starting with kindergarten, as being exactly the same as marriage between a man and a woman. They want this teaching campaign ? that sexual preference does not matter ? to begin even before children develop their sexual identities, which will be confusing and destabilizing to our children.
2. Those opposing Proposition 8 would like that campaign to occur at taxpayer expense, as all textbooks in California will be required to be changed to describe marriage as genderless.
3. Those opposing Proposition 8 insist that this propaganda campaign must occur without parental consent or notice.
4. Those opposing Proposition 8 want same sex couples to be able to force their right to adopt a young baby even when it will compete with and replace a family with a mother and father, although having a mother and a father is always in the best interest of every baby.
5. Those opposing Proposition 8 seek to close down adoption clinics and religious welfare agencies of those who oppose same sex marriage (just as has happened already in Massachusetts), as they place the right to same sex marriage on a collision course with the right to free speech and freedom of religion of those with whom they disagree, when those clinics are a crucial help to the people of this State.
6. Those opposing Proposition 8 do not want people in a same sex union to be properly questioned when they try to adopt young adults of their same sex ? for example, two married men seeking to adopt a 12-year old boy. In short, same sex couples do not want to be treated any differently than a couple consisting of a man and woman ? even in circumstances where there are differences and questions should be asked.
These are just a few points. You are free to disagree. By definition, tolerance means tolerating differences. I am not forcing you to agree with me, but I ask that this discussion continue in a respectful way.
Funny you should bring up that argument. Darwinian evolution would tell us that homosexuality should have passed out of the gene pool as soon as it developed, because only creatures that were better at breeding (and staying alive long enough to do so) would pass on their genes to subsequent generations. Homosexuality shouldn't exist if Darwinian evolution is true.
Or maybe homosexuality isn't genetic....?
According to a group of Italian researchers, the genes that make men gay evolved because they actually make their female relatives more fertile.
The team discovered that the mothers, aunts and sisters of gay men tend to have more children than those women related to straight men.
For 20 plus years I have been a Mac user and I am too familiar with the short comings of the MS OS and too accustom to the advantages of Mac to change. Although I have rooted for Mac all these years, this is one time I hope Apple looses and looses badly. There are some things that are wrong and no mater how much they me be justified, they are still wrong. This Gay thing is wrong.
When MS stole the Mac OS we all knew it, no matter what they claimed. It was stealing and wrong. Well things are starting to turn around after many years. I have lived long enough to tell those who will listen wrong does not win in the end. IT never has and it never will. I do not have to prove that history proves it far better than I ever could. It may take time but right always wins.
Respectfully submitted, knowing others will not agree.
You're right. When are religious folks going to realize that "the church" has always and regularly been at least a century behind human social development. The Renaissance must have been a traumatic time for these narrow minded folks who are constrained by whatever the received interpretation of scripture was in their time. All that humanism and pluralism, the devil's work, all of it. First Galileo, then witches, race mixing and other "unnatural" human behavior . . . You guys always assume that you are right and the rest of us have to pass laws to enshrine your personal beliefs. You base this on what the mysterious guy in the next room who nobody sees tells you. Keep your church out of our government and I'll try very hard to keep government out of your church.
I honestly can't believe the ignorance and bigotry ON AN APPLE FORUM!
I also think you need to revise your study.
Evolution by its definition produces "non standard" that would be, in this instance, those unlikely to reproduce, its one of the basic BASIC principals.
---
Blinkered BLINKERED unthinking people posting here..
and from a group of people who hold up the value to think different..
Quote:
Originally Posted by nowayout11
A) Problem is, it's not that simple. 2/3 of all "yes for Prop 8" funds came from outside of CA, specifically mormons in UT and AZ. They don't have any business pushing their agenda in CA which is decidedly more liberal than their states.
Equality is a god-given right, even according to religious freaks.
Again, one cannot change this argument from a constitutional to a non-constitutional (and back again) when its convenient. Either it is or its not, and IT IS NOT. So therefore, states can and will do anything with a 'right' they want to according to the people. The CONSTITUTION is the only thing that is PROTECTED in terms of individuality and rights. Funds can come from anywhere for any advertising, but VOTES come from residents. The residents aka the people voted and will vote again.
And what does religious fanatics have to do with anything in this argument? This is about legal rights, and parents rights is it not?
Sorry I'm not religious. But I do recognize that things are either right or wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H
Still waiting for the reasoning as to what's so bad about other people being gay. Are you afraid they might make you gay too?
Its so bad, bacause its wrong. Just like pedophilia is wrong. Just like stabbing random old ladies is wrong. Just like touching your sister is wrong. Its just plain wrong.
Why would I be scared they would make me gay? That is the stupidest thing I ever heard. Would I be scared of becoming a pedophile if pedophilia was legalized or becoming a crackhead if crack was legalized? Seriously thats the stupidest shi I ever heard and makes negative 2 ounces of sense.
Since the authors of the Bible did not know Jesus, did not live in the same country or in the same time, we can only understand Christianity by the way Jesus lived his life, and that he felt the need to preach differently from the religion of the time.
Jesus's lived his life by the values of:
PACIFISM
FORGIVENESS
GENEROSITY
Will the real fundamentalist Christians please stand up? I can't hear you!
I would also be more than happy to provide additional citations for any of these claims.
Let's see them then. Many people in this thread have already tried to tell you that 1.) is bollocks but you appear to have ignored it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by srs
having a mother and a father is always in the best interest of every baby.
Evidence please
Quote:
Originally Posted by srs
6. Those opposing Proposition 8 do not want people in a same sex union to be properly questioned when they try to adopt young adults of their same sex ? for example, two married men seeking to adopt a 12-year old boy. In short, same sex couples do not want to be treated any differently than a couple consisting of a man and woman ? even in circumstances where there are differences and questions should be asked.
Yeah, because we all know all gays are paedophiles
Having a father and mother is best, according to the the 1989 U.N. Convention on the Rights of the Child. Also, this was concluded by France more recently, see the Summary of the French Parliamentary Commission Report on the Family And the Rights of Children (French National Assembly, Paris, January 26, 2006).
David Blankenhorn, a liberal democrat, discusses this further.
Comments
Wow this really sucks for Apple.
Can't believe they would back such a morally reprehensible act.
Now we know Steve doesn't have cancer, he most likely has AIDS.
Die. Steve. Die.
I seriously cannot believe people as stupid as you exist in the 21st century. Assuming that post was serious.
I seriously cannot believe people as stupid as you exist in the 21st century.
And I can't believe society has declined so much over the last 100 years, that something like this would even make it to a ballot.
A.) I don't care how many customers or employees this affects, Apple still has no business supporting social issues. It is a democratic vote by the people, and everyone else needs to shut their face. The PEOPLE will decide how they want to be governed. Majority rules in a democratic situation. Deal with it. In fact, I think it will hurt Apple more, as MORE people object to the idea overall. Homosexual marriage has historically been voted down time and time again, though single legislating judges feel it is their right to over rule the PEOPLE.
B.) MARRIAGE IS NOT A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT! I challenge any one of you to find it in the Constitution. You will not/cannot find it. So therefore, the 14th Amendment DOES NOT protect MARRIAGE (homosexual or otherwise) for it's citizens.
A) Problem is, it's not that simple. 2/3 of all "yes for Prop 8" funds came from outside of CA, specifically mormons in UT and AZ. They don't have any business pushing their agenda in CA which is decidedly more liberal than their states.
It may take time but right always wins.
That damned right wing Harper! But seriously, when you say "this Gay thing is wrong", what exactly do you mean? What is this 'thing' and what is it that is so wrong?
Wow this really sucks for Apple.
Can't believe they would back such a morally reprehensible act.
Now we know Steve doesn't have cancer, he most likely has AIDS.
Die. Steve. Die.
Its your Hell, you burn in it.
I honestly can't believe the ignorance and bigotry ON AN APPLE FORUM!
I also think you need to revise your study.
Evolution by its definition produces "non standard" that would be, in this instance, those unlikely to reproduce, its one of the basic BASIC principals.
---
Blinkered BLINKERED unthinking people posting here..
and from a group of people who hold up the value to think different..
Don't you think you are stretching it a bit, simply to prove his very valid point (whether his conclusion of Darwinism was right or not) wrong?
I guarantee this thread disappears sooner than the DVD vs. Blu-Ray thread.
hallowed be its name
Here in Arizona, we have a constitutional amendment on the ballot that simply defines marriage as being between one man and one woman. It will pass, and I will vote for it. I hope it also passes in California.
That I got the heck out of Arizona!
(Just kidding...it was mostly cause of that idiot Sheriff Joe!!!)
And I can't believe society has declined so much over the last 100 years, that something like this would even make it to a ballot.
Still waiting for the reasoning as to what's so bad about other people being gay. Are you afraid they might make you gay too?
Are you high?
The catholic church has forbidden women from becoming priests for centuries and I'll be shocked if that ever changes. You really think people can get religions to change by suing them?
I think it is pointless and silly for Apple to be making a stance on these issues. Especially being that in California same sex couples receive virtually the same legal protections as married couples; namely rights of property, tax rights, retirement program rights, employment rights, and other legal benefits. I am completely in favor of all these benefits and hope to see them adopted nationwide.
But here are a few points to explain why I am voting YES on Prop 8. My position is the same as both presidential candidates and their running mates (as were clearly stated in recent VP debate) in maintaining the traditional definition of "marriage" as being between one man and one woman.
I would also be more than happy to provide additional citations for any of these claims.
What do those opposing Proposition 8 want?
1. Those opposing Proposition 8 want same sex marriage taught in school, starting with kindergarten, as being exactly the same as marriage between a man and a woman. They want this teaching campaign ? that sexual preference does not matter ? to begin even before children develop their sexual identities, which will be confusing and destabilizing to our children.
2. Those opposing Proposition 8 would like that campaign to occur at taxpayer expense, as all textbooks in California will be required to be changed to describe marriage as genderless.
3. Those opposing Proposition 8 insist that this propaganda campaign must occur without parental consent or notice.
4. Those opposing Proposition 8 want same sex couples to be able to force their right to adopt a young baby even when it will compete with and replace a family with a mother and father, although having a mother and a father is always in the best interest of every baby.
5. Those opposing Proposition 8 seek to close down adoption clinics and religious welfare agencies of those who oppose same sex marriage (just as has happened already in Massachusetts), as they place the right to same sex marriage on a collision course with the right to free speech and freedom of religion of those with whom they disagree, when those clinics are a crucial help to the people of this State.
6. Those opposing Proposition 8 do not want people in a same sex union to be properly questioned when they try to adopt young adults of their same sex ? for example, two married men seeking to adopt a 12-year old boy. In short, same sex couples do not want to be treated any differently than a couple consisting of a man and woman ? even in circumstances where there are differences and questions should be asked.
These are just a few points. You are free to disagree. By definition, tolerance means tolerating differences. I am not forcing you to agree with me, but I ask that this discussion continue in a respectful way.
Funny you should bring up that argument. Darwinian evolution would tell us that homosexuality should have passed out of the gene pool as soon as it developed, because only creatures that were better at breeding (and staying alive long enough to do so) would pass on their genes to subsequent generations. Homosexuality shouldn't exist if Darwinian evolution is true.
Or maybe homosexuality isn't genetic....?
According to a group of Italian researchers, the genes that make men gay evolved because they actually make their female relatives more fertile.
The team discovered that the mothers, aunts and sisters of gay men tend to have more children than those women related to straight men.
Science disagrees
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2004/oc...ation.research
For 20 plus years I have been a Mac user and I am too familiar with the short comings of the MS OS and too accustom to the advantages of Mac to change. Although I have rooted for Mac all these years, this is one time I hope Apple looses and looses badly. There are some things that are wrong and no mater how much they me be justified, they are still wrong. This Gay thing is wrong.
When MS stole the Mac OS we all knew it, no matter what they claimed. It was stealing and wrong. Well things are starting to turn around after many years. I have lived long enough to tell those who will listen wrong does not win in the end. IT never has and it never will. I do not have to prove that history proves it far better than I ever could. It may take time but right always wins.
Respectfully submitted, knowing others will not agree.
You're right. When are religious folks going to realize that "the church" has always and regularly been at least a century behind human social development. The Renaissance must have been a traumatic time for these narrow minded folks who are constrained by whatever the received interpretation of scripture was in their time. All that humanism and pluralism, the devil's work, all of it. First Galileo, then witches, race mixing and other "unnatural" human behavior . . . You guys always assume that you are right and the rest of us have to pass laws to enshrine your personal beliefs. You base this on what the mysterious guy in the next room who nobody sees tells you. Keep your church out of our government and I'll try very hard to keep government out of your church.
And I can't believe society has declined so much over the last 100 years, that something like this would even make it to a ballot.
So then you're against prop 8?
I honestly can't believe the ignorance and bigotry ON AN APPLE FORUM!
I also think you need to revise your study.
Evolution by its definition produces "non standard" that would be, in this instance, those unlikely to reproduce, its one of the basic BASIC principals.
---
Blinkered BLINKERED unthinking people posting here..
and from a group of people who hold up the value to think different..
A) Problem is, it's not that simple. 2/3 of all "yes for Prop 8" funds came from outside of CA, specifically mormons in UT and AZ. They don't have any business pushing their agenda in CA which is decidedly more liberal than their states.
Again, one cannot change this argument from a constitutional to a non-constitutional (and back again) when its convenient. Either it is or its not, and IT IS NOT. So therefore, states can and will do anything with a 'right' they want to according to the people. The CONSTITUTION is the only thing that is PROTECTED in terms of individuality and rights. Funds can come from anywhere for any advertising, but VOTES come from residents. The residents aka the people voted and will vote again.
And what does religious fanatics have to do with anything in this argument? This is about legal rights, and parents rights is it not?
reading this story has lifted my opinion on Apple/jobs after the Firewire stupidity.
Go Apple.
I am SO glad I don't live in the politically festering quagmire that america has become, but if I did live in california I would be voting NO.
Society evolves. Deal with it.
Freedom.
whats that again?
Its your Hell, you burn in it.
Sorry I'm not religious. But I do recognize that things are either right or wrong.
Still waiting for the reasoning as to what's so bad about other people being gay. Are you afraid they might make you gay too?
Its so bad, bacause its wrong. Just like pedophilia is wrong. Just like stabbing random old ladies is wrong. Just like touching your sister is wrong. Its just plain wrong.
Why would I be scared they would make me gay? That is the stupidest thing I ever heard. Would I be scared of becoming a pedophile if pedophilia was legalized or becoming a crackhead if crack was legalized? Seriously thats the stupidest shi I ever heard and makes negative 2 ounces of sense.
Jesus's lived his life by the values of:
PACIFISM
FORGIVENESS
GENEROSITY
Will the real fundamentalist Christians please stand up? I can't hear you!
I would also be more than happy to provide additional citations for any of these claims.
Let's see them then. Many people in this thread have already tried to tell you that 1.) is bollocks but you appear to have ignored it.
having a mother and a father is always in the best interest of every baby.
Evidence please
6. Those opposing Proposition 8 do not want people in a same sex union to be properly questioned when they try to adopt young adults of their same sex ? for example, two married men seeking to adopt a 12-year old boy. In short, same sex couples do not want to be treated any differently than a couple consisting of a man and woman ? even in circumstances where there are differences and questions should be asked.
David Blankenhorn, a liberal democrat, discusses this further.
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...,2093869.story