The catholic church has forbidden women from becoming priests for centuries and I'll be shocked if that ever changes. You really think people can get religions to change by suing them?
You are right that as a religion they are not forced, but the Catholic church has made women priests (or something like it but under a different term) despite Pop John Paul's 1994 statement saying that women could not be ordain as such. But the reasoning has nothing to do with equality, but with the Catholic church being short on staff.
Want proof? All societies of the past have been destroyed solely due to the lowering of the mores of that society. Every single one.r:
I thought that the Roman Empire became unable to sustain itself because of the devaluation of currency to pay the army and widespread slavery that cut off the flow of currency.
Such hatred for others, who wish you no harm. It makes no logical sense.
I believe a number of people here feel very threatened by something or other, and as everybody knows the best form of defense is attack. Of course, the people who are under attack in this context are not themselves actually attacking anybody which leads one to wonder exactly what the people now doing the attacking in order to defend themselves feel that they are defending themselves against. Could it be fear of the unknown in itself or might it be that they do not know what will happen to them if they got to know the unknown and the unknown no longer became so fearsome. What would that say about them? Well, chill... nobody's gonna think you are gay if you are not. And if you are, aren't you glad you found out?
I don't understand the need for gay people to get married. The only reason that gays want it is because heterosexuals have it. I think we should just get rid of marriage altogether from the state and federal level. Everyone files their income tax as an individual, and gets their own health insurance as an individual. You want to get married? Fine, go do it in your favorite place of worship or whatever. There would be no benefit to being married as far as our government goes. Go marry a goat for all anyone cares.
I agree completely that marriage should be defined separately in religion and not in law, so that religions can have their own practices and the law just deal with practical issues like insurance etc. They should remove the term 'marriage' from the law to make that clear.
I also agree that we should all be individuals and define our rights individually, eg: I can just tick a set of checkboxes: hospital visitation, insurance, inheritance, etc.
Dear God, please don't debate the merits of Gay Marriage on this website. Write a letter to the editor but seriously folks, this debate is futile. The question here is whether a company should use its money, in a time of uncertainty to champion moral or ethical or whatever you classify gay marriage as an issue. It sends a strong message, to be sure, but is it the right message to be sending at this time? Wouldn't that money be better spent feeding the poor of this country than establishing an even stronger rapport with the gay community?
That sounds biologically reasonable. There is also a scientific argument that while it's not normal, as in "the norm", it's a very natural part of being a complex, sexual dimorphic species. If a person can be born with both sexual organs, in other words a simultaneous* hermaphrodite, why can't a person be born with the physical organs of one sex but with the phycological sexual orientation of another? The Lord works in mysterious ways. Of course, you'll find many who think that hermaphrodites don't exist despite clear evidence throughout nature and that homosexuality is a choice, despite the assurance that thy never had to choose if they are asked.
PS: The movie Religious is quite funny. Bill Maher talks to a guy in Winter Park, Florida who runs a company that teaches people to not be gay. Both him and his wife used to be gay, so he must know what he is talking about.
* As opposed to sequential hermaphrodites, like what was talked about in Jurassic Park.
Great posts Solipsism. Agreed, Religelous is quite funny. Maher is the man..
Presumably, those who support Prop 8 to protect traditional marriages are just trying to protect themselves from the state breaking up their families and forcing them to have homosexual sex.
I will regretfully not be buying products from Apple for a year and perhaps longer.
I will also not be purchasing Apple stock.
Gay marriage is not just a civil rights issue it is also a moral issue. I object to my government blessing as acceptable what I view as immoral and against biological nature.
I have no objections to civil unions provided they are available to anyone who wants to establish a domestic partnership irregardless of sexual relations or not.
The thousands of dollars that I have spent on Apple products over the years won't make much of a difference but it will make me feel better and perhaps others will magnify the impact.
If Apple wants to vote with their dollars, I will vote with mine.
GOOD. One ignorant person less for apple. I don't think Apple will miss you. Boycott all you want. What, you gonna stop using Google too. Then you should throw a stone at one of their satellites?
Is this so moral? Then we should protest against divorce, one-parent adoption and importing kids from another countries.
Therein lies the problem....the arguments are of human origin. Seek the arguments that are God's arguments. I'd love to go more into that, but I have the feeling that wouldn't go over well with this crowd... (and could get banned or locked, because we live in an intolerant society...)
Being of human origin myself, I don't find falling back on God compelling. Seems like a cosmic cop-out to me. The fact that I don't believe in God notwithstanding. As far as being banned is concerned, I believe the Christian majority has a well documented record at being the leaders in that field. Anyway, nice disputing with you. It is clear we'll never see eye-to-eye on matters of faith.
Explain why?! It's not a matter of affecting one on a personal level, but it will eventually as the society reaches lower and lower levels. If you don't care that the mores of the society go to shit then by all means let's all support this.
Want proof? All societies of the past have been destroyed solely due to the lowering of the mores of that society. Every single one.
It's unethical for two members of the same sex to engage in sexual intercourse let alone marriage.
I HATE unethical behavior. Those damned elephants, rats, caribou, dogs, raccoons, cats, chickens, emus... oh shit, this is going to take all night. Just go look for yourself http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...exual_behavior
I'm not going to debate the issue of gay marriage here on these boards because it's pointless. Both sides are set in their ways and feel that they're right and/or morally superior. So, have at it, guys and gals.
instead, I will offer a couple of links here, then do something more productive. I will continue to donate money to No on Prop 8, and work the phone banks to call undecided voters in order to counter the lies--yes, LIES--that the Yes on Prop 8 folks are pushing in their ads.
Don't believe me? That's fine. Here's a little video that exposes the five lies that the pro-8 crowd is selling you, and the truth behind the claims: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-pSye9W7FY
I applaud Apple for their role in stopping discriminatory legislation, which is motivated by fear tactics. It's the worst kind of politics, no matter what issue you're dealing with. I'll be working the phones for several nights next week, and I recommend this kind of participation for all of you who feel as I do. It's important to humanize this issue and make voters think about how their decision will directly impact real people who work and live among them.
Your government REVELS in it, but where were the Christians then?
Wicked comment!
Now the question is, do I approve or disapprove? Do I think you are wicked or not. You have already said you are not gay, but you can still be wicked!)
GOOD. One ignorant person less for apple. I don't think Apple will miss you. Boycott all you want. What, you gonna stop using Google too. Then you should throw a stone at one of their satellites?
Is this so moral? Then we should protest against divorce, one-parent adoption and importing kids from another countries.
Agree, but can we start at the top of the list? WAR
It's unethical for two members of the same sex to engage in sexual intercourse let alone marriage.
I say it's unethical to deny people the same rights you have to a full, happy life simply because you don't care for their natural race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, height, weight, gender, cranium phrenology or any other aspect of their person that is biologically originated.
I HATE unethical behavior. Those damned elephants, rats, caribou, dogs, raccoons, cats, chickens, emus... oh shit, this is going to take all night. Just go look for yourself http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...exual_behavior
Last time I checked I was a sentient being not an animal. But hey, you are free to be whatever you want to be.
I don't understand the need for gay people to get married. The only reason that gays want it is because heterosexuals have it. I think we should just get rid of marriage altogether from the state and federal level. Everyone files their income tax as an individual, and gets their own health insurance as an individual. You want to get married? Fine, go do it in your favorite place of worship or whatever. There would be no benefit to being married as far as our government goes. Go marry a goat for all anyone cares.
It's simple. Government has no business whatsoever being involved in the issue of marriage as a religious ceremony, but since they are it's discriminatory.
Gov't needs to get out of the "marriage business". I consider it a legal contract, the whole church involvement thing is just thousands of years of hocus-pocus sprinkled on top.
Comments
If this prop ever get passed, the american spirit will be a little more dead.
The catholic church has forbidden women from becoming priests for centuries and I'll be shocked if that ever changes. You really think people can get religions to change by suing them?
You are right that as a religion they are not forced, but the Catholic church has made women priests (or something like it but under a different term) despite Pop John Paul's 1994 statement saying that women could not be ordain as such. But the reasoning has nothing to do with equality, but with the Catholic church being short on staff.
Want proof? All societies of the past have been destroyed solely due to the lowering of the mores of that society. Every single one.r:
I thought that the Roman Empire became unable to sustain itself because of the devaluation of currency to pay the army and widespread slavery that cut off the flow of currency.
Talk about service sector jobs.
Bad. Apple should stay out of it.
Its actually good. Apple and Google can show that they're not ignorant, like you.
Such hatred for others, who wish you no harm. It makes no logical sense.
I believe a number of people here feel very threatened by something or other, and as everybody knows the best form of defense is attack. Of course, the people who are under attack in this context are not themselves actually attacking anybody which leads one to wonder exactly what the people now doing the attacking in order to defend themselves feel that they are defending themselves against. Could it be fear of the unknown in itself or might it be that they do not know what will happen to them if they got to know the unknown and the unknown no longer became so fearsome. What would that say about them? Well, chill... nobody's gonna think you are gay if you are not. And if you are, aren't you glad you found out?
I don't understand the need for gay people to get married. The only reason that gays want it is because heterosexuals have it. I think we should just get rid of marriage altogether from the state and federal level. Everyone files their income tax as an individual, and gets their own health insurance as an individual. You want to get married? Fine, go do it in your favorite place of worship or whatever. There would be no benefit to being married as far as our government goes. Go marry a goat for all anyone cares.
I agree completely that marriage should be defined separately in religion and not in law, so that religions can have their own practices and the law just deal with practical issues like insurance etc. They should remove the term 'marriage' from the law to make that clear.
I also agree that we should all be individuals and define our rights individually, eg: I can just tick a set of checkboxes: hospital visitation, insurance, inheritance, etc.
Dear God, please don't debate the merits of Gay Marriage on this website. Write a letter to the editor but seriously folks, this debate is futile. The question here is whether a company should use its money, in a time of uncertainty to champion moral or ethical or whatever you classify gay marriage as an issue. It sends a strong message, to be sure, but is it the right message to be sending at this time? Wouldn't that money be better spent feeding the poor of this country than establishing an even stronger rapport with the gay community?
Someone I can agree with.
That sounds biologically reasonable. There is also a scientific argument that while it's not normal, as in "the norm", it's a very natural part of being a complex, sexual dimorphic species. If a person can be born with both sexual organs, in other words a simultaneous* hermaphrodite, why can't a person be born with the physical organs of one sex but with the phycological sexual orientation of another? The Lord works in mysterious ways. Of course, you'll find many who think that hermaphrodites don't exist despite clear evidence throughout nature and that homosexuality is a choice, despite the assurance that thy never had to choose if they are asked.
PS: The movie Religious is quite funny. Bill Maher talks to a guy in Winter Park, Florida who runs a company that teaches people to not be gay. Both him and his wife used to be gay, so he must know what he is talking about.
* As opposed to sequential hermaphrodites, like what was talked about in Jurassic Park.
Great posts Solipsism.
Right?
Extreme right?
I will regretfully not be buying products from Apple for a year and perhaps longer.
I will also not be purchasing Apple stock.
Gay marriage is not just a civil rights issue it is also a moral issue. I object to my government blessing as acceptable what I view as immoral and against biological nature.
I have no objections to civil unions provided they are available to anyone who wants to establish a domestic partnership irregardless of sexual relations or not.
The thousands of dollars that I have spent on Apple products over the years won't make much of a difference but it will make me feel better and perhaps others will magnify the impact.
If Apple wants to vote with their dollars, I will vote with mine.
GOOD. One ignorant person less for apple. I don't think Apple will miss you. Boycott all you want. What, you gonna stop using Google too. Then you should throw a stone at one of their satellites?
Is this so moral? Then we should protest against divorce, one-parent adoption and importing kids from another countries.
Therein lies the problem....the arguments are of human origin. Seek the arguments that are God's arguments. I'd love to go more into that, but I have the feeling that wouldn't go over well with this crowd...
Being of human origin myself, I don't find falling back on God compelling. Seems like a cosmic cop-out to me. The fact that I don't believe in God notwithstanding. As far as being banned is concerned, I believe the Christian majority has a well documented record at being the leaders in that field. Anyway, nice disputing with you. It is clear we'll never see eye-to-eye on matters of faith.
Explain why?! It's not a matter of affecting one on a personal level, but it will eventually as the society reaches lower and lower levels. If you don't care that the mores of the society go to shit then by all means let's all support this.
Want proof? All societies of the past have been destroyed solely due to the lowering of the mores of that society. Every single one.
It's unethical for two members of the same sex to engage in sexual intercourse let alone marriage.
I HATE unethical behavior. Those damned elephants, rats, caribou, dogs, raccoons, cats, chickens, emus... oh shit, this is going to take all night. Just go look for yourself http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...exual_behavior
I object to my government blessing as acceptable what I view as immoral and against biological nature.
Thou shalt not kill.
Your government REVELS in it, but where were the Christians then?
Thou shalt not kill.
Your government REVELS in it, but where were the Christians then?
oh snap.
instead, I will offer a couple of links here, then do something more productive. I will continue to donate money to No on Prop 8, and work the phone banks to call undecided voters in order to counter the lies--yes, LIES--that the Yes on Prop 8 folks are pushing in their ads.
Don't believe me? That's fine. Here's a little video that exposes the five lies that the pro-8 crowd is selling you, and the truth behind the claims: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-pSye9W7FY
Oh, and the Yes on 8 crowd are now resorting to blackmail-like tactics to gain support: http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/10/23/4145
I applaud Apple for their role in stopping discriminatory legislation, which is motivated by fear tactics. It's the worst kind of politics, no matter what issue you're dealing with. I'll be working the phones for several nights next week, and I recommend this kind of participation for all of you who feel as I do. It's important to humanize this issue and make voters think about how their decision will directly impact real people who work and live among them.
GTSC
Thou shalt not kill.
Your government REVELS in it, but where were the Christians then?
Wicked comment!
Now the question is, do I approve or disapprove? Do I think you are wicked or not. You have already said you are not gay, but you can still be wicked!)
GOOD. One ignorant person less for apple. I don't think Apple will miss you. Boycott all you want. What, you gonna stop using Google too. Then you should throw a stone at one of their satellites?
Is this so moral? Then we should protest against divorce, one-parent adoption and importing kids from another countries.
Agree, but can we start at the top of the list? WAR
It's unethical for two members of the same sex to engage in sexual intercourse let alone marriage.
I say it's unethical to deny people the same rights you have to a full, happy life simply because you don't care for their natural race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, height, weight, gender, cranium phrenology or any other aspect of their person that is biologically originated.
I HATE unethical behavior. Those damned elephants, rats, caribou, dogs, raccoons, cats, chickens, emus... oh shit, this is going to take all night. Just go look for yourself http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...exual_behavior
Last time I checked I was a sentient being not an animal. But hey, you are free to be whatever you want to be.
I don't understand the need for gay people to get married. The only reason that gays want it is because heterosexuals have it. I think we should just get rid of marriage altogether from the state and federal level. Everyone files their income tax as an individual, and gets their own health insurance as an individual. You want to get married? Fine, go do it in your favorite place of worship or whatever. There would be no benefit to being married as far as our government goes. Go marry a goat for all anyone cares.
It's simple. Government has no business whatsoever being involved in the issue of marriage as a religious ceremony, but since they are it's discriminatory.
Gov't needs to get out of the "marriage business". I consider it a legal contract, the whole church involvement thing is just thousands of years of hocus-pocus sprinkled on top.