Have you even used a 360 in the last year? I don't really care for the platform, but to deny that it has a store or products sounds pretty ignorant to me.
I wish I knew, it doesn't seem to be the money pit that it was, though write-down because of the RROD issue must have really hurt.
Well Jeff, you assume that all people live in USA where is the only place where everything is available, just compared it to iTunes or the new born App Store that is available in way more countries with the full array of products.
When you compare Xbox store to Apple's is kind of ridiculous.
In my country I was one of the first to buy an xbox, same happened with the 360. Lame I can't buy anything from the store as it happens with some other 6 to 8 millions xbox users around Latin America.
All the stuff I bought from that store was in one of my trips to USA, at least I can travel there, thank god I don't live there anymore.
waaah, waaah, Apple. Just give it up already. Open up your damn operating system so people can install it on their machines without getting gouged on the prices.
When you compare component to component on an equal quality to quality scale... when you consider the full fit-n-finish of the end product... or even when you don't and just compare components - the Macs are a value equal to and sometimes better then the likes of Dell.
This has been confirmed by such notable entities as Tom's Hardware.... and I dare say... if you dare mention that Dell sells $500 notebooks while Apple's are $1000 - then just know that we will stand here and laugh at your ignorance.
I sit here before my brand new Mac Book Pro and relish that it is built so much better then any PC that I have in possession or have used in the past. I deplore the cheapness of construction and the corners that are cut to make them. I bought my wife the white (prev-gen) MacBook and even that blows away the quality bar of any Dell, Toshiba or HP that I have owned.
So educate yourself and stop sounding like an absolute idiot. And if you want to get into a scuffle on the matter I would be more then happy to take this to a relevant thread.
By the way... I have code that lives in Windows (xp) - i have worked EXTENSIVELY in the windows world.. and I can bring things to light about manufactures and the windows world that will question any argument.. so do please push me.
Sorry... in bad mood today... had to take it out somewhere.
MS doesn't want OS X to be forced licensed, perhaps even more than Apple. MS is already losing plenty of marketshare on the OS and web browser front, if Psystar were to get their way (which they won't) all this would do would make OS X a premium and desirable OS that would be quite popular on Dell, Sony, etc. even if it was sold at a premium since Apple only sells a single version of the OS which is inline with Windows Vista Ultimate ̈Über-Düber version. Only the PC HW vendors would gain as it would allow them to pull back some of the switchers to their Windows and Linux based systems.
The word is that they are making money on each unit, but I'm sure there are still billions they need to make back before they are in the black for their gaming division.
I think just the same about MS not wanting OS X licensed to x86 platform. But the fact that MS is worried so much cause Apple success its not new. They lost some battles long time ago. Maybe they felt secure with their monopoly and big and endless contracts with Dell, HP, and others. Internet Explorer sucks, failed to buy Yahoo, Google became a Giant.
At the end is their problem to be not competitive at all, people get sick of them, their products and they way they do business.
The only ones that can't see why is MS, thats why Zune and Vista failed.
Are those rats I see scurrying to the upper levels? Must be the Psystar ship sinking!
I am just aching to find out who the John Does are. There is no way some top corporate shop like Microsoft or Dell would be that dumb to risk serious PR damage by contributing to break the law. It just isn't their style.
Probably just a group of folks that thought they had a shot and rolled the wrong dice.
Are those rats I see scurrying to the upper levels? Must be the Psystar ship sinking!
I am just aching to find out who the John Does are. There is no way some top corporate shop like Microsoft or Dell would be that dumb to risk serious PR damage by contributing to break the law. It just isn't their style.
Probably just a group of folks that thought they had a shot and rolled the wrong dice.
P
Most likely some Chinese or Taiwanese backing here.
But the most eyebrow-raising element remains the 18th paragraph, which explicitly states that Apple believes ten unknown people or companies -- each nicknamed "John Doe" -- have contributed on some level to the numerous violations named in the amended suit.
"On information and belief, persons other than Psystar are involved in Psystar?s unlawful and improper activities described in this Amended Complaint," the new section reads. "The true names or capacities, whether individual, corporate, or otherwise, of these persons are unknown to Apple. Apple will seek leave to amend this complaint to show the unknown John Doe Defendants? true names and capacities when they are ascertained."
I predicted this eight months ago and have continually stated this.
All of a sudden it is Groklaw who comes up with this? I had been suggesting via commentary for months that Apple ought to find some way to get to who Psystar's backers are. At the time most waived me off as a conspiracy nut. Boo yah. Looks like I might have been right all along.
The minute Apple opens up Mac OS X, they've given up everything that makes them a unique computing experience. Microsoft creates a product, and it's just software. Apple creates a product and builds a stellar experience. I like that. How else do you make a competitive edge? How else do you try to make the best product so people want to buy your machines over the others? And can you imagine how much mental abuse those developers go through! :P Let them bask in the glory of their work. They've EARNED it.
And Psystar did nothing to EARN those sales. They didn't create a magnificent OS that makes their computers desireable. No, instead they hacked it up to run on their machine, stealing Apple's competitive edge and IP.
Oh well, I wouldn't be dumb enough to buy their clunky, loud boxes anyway. I have a beautiful iMac that takes up less space, is silent, and beautiful. (I got what I paid for)
It's not surprising to see there would be people backing Psystar. There will always be people backing these types of company to earn lots of money by undercutting a worldwide organization.
I'm still partly on Psystar's side though, not because of lower profit margins and not because of the restrictions in OS X. Psystar just know what options are on offer from Intel and are building good value desktops with those chips where Apple just refuse to use them and always opt for much more expensive components.
Instead of taking Psystar down, all they need is to make a competitive machine and Psystar will die all on its own.
Their Open Pro is:
Core 2 Quad 2.8GHz
4GB Ram
512MB 8600GT
$1399
By contrast, the quad 2.8GHz Mac Pro is
Xeon quad 2.8GHz
2GB Ram
256MB Radeon HD 2600XT
$2299
It's not that it's overpriced, it's just expensive parts. The processor in the Mac Pro I believe is the 2.80GHz 1600MHz fsb 45nm E5462 at $797.
The one in the Psystar is the 2.83GHz 1333MHz 45nm Q550 at $316.
Processor choice alone drops the price by $481. This could bring a quad desktop down to $1818. Then you can use cheaper types of Ram and you'd probably hit the $1699 mark.
The Psystar is still $300 cheaper but for that amount extra, a lot more people would pay the premium for a better quality machine. Bordering on $1000 more is just asking a bit much, especially when the benchmarks show them to be pretty close.
Psystar are simply giving people the choices they want whereas Apple say, these are our choices we don't care what you want.
If any of these individuals can be traced they should watch their backs as if Apple's lawyers can get hold of them they will soon be worrying about losing their homes etc.
Like others have said before all Psystar will achieve is awakening the wrath of apple which will ultimately do nothing more that hurt the X86 scene. Looks like they were right.
Psystar are simply giving people the choices they want whereas Apple say, these are our choices we don't care what you want.
Hmmm...
So then you support company 'B' for stealing the IP of company 'A', markets and sells the product using the stolen IP from company 'A' simply because of the argument that company 'A' does not make what the community wants so therefore company 'B' is justified in filling that niche while company 'A' does all the work and receives nothing?
Nice argument.
And don't even tell me that Apple does get their revenue from Psystar buying the $129 retail license UPGRADE!
waaah, waaah, Apple. Just give it up already. Open up your damn operating system so people can install it on their machines without getting gouged on the prices.
Let's see, Vista = 199.95-319.95
Leopard= 129.95 - that's it ...top of the line 129.95.
The "persons or companies" stuff is just boilerplate.
It's way more likely that these ten "John Doe's" are individuals, and very very likely that what they are talking about here is the individual hobbyists in the OSX86 community that cracked open the protection in the first place.
You can't make an argument that Psystar circumvented the copy protection without showing how they did it, where the code comes from, etc. And once you discover the "hobbyists" in question, you have to treat them the same as Psystar under the law.
It's likely that Psystar has screwed up the lives of a lot of innocent people who are now going to be charged in court.
Hobbyists can't afford millions of dollars in legal fees.
So then you support company 'B' for stealing the IP of company 'A', markets and sells the product using the stolen IP from company 'A' simply because of the argument that company 'A' does not make what the community wants so therefore company 'B' is justified in filling that niche while company 'A' does all the work and receives nothing?
Nice argument.
And don't even tell me that Apple does get their revenue from Psystar buying the $129 retail license UPGRADE!
(not to put words in Marvin's mouth but) I think his point is that large IP and licensing issues aside, Psystar is targeting a market niche that Apple leaves unserved; and, that Apple servicing that niche alone will squash Psystar.
waaah, waaah, Apple. Just give it up already. Open up your damn operating system so people can install it on their machines without getting gouged on the prices.
Don't be such an idiot. You talk about price gouging, but have you seen Microsoft's license fees? Do you want Apple to raise the cost of OS X if they can no longer cover the development costs with hardware sales? Of course, that likely doesn't bother you as you'd probably just pirate the software anyway.
When you compare component to component on an equal quality to quality scale... when you consider the full fit-n-finish of the end product... or even when you don't and just compare components - the Macs are a value equal to and sometimes better then the likes of Dell.
This has been confirmed by such notable entities as Tom's Hardware.... and I dare say... if you dare mention that Dell sells $500 notebooks while Apple's are $1000 - then just know that we will stand here and laugh at your ignorance.
I sit here before my brand new Mac Book Pro and relish that it is built so much better then any PC that I have in possession or have used in the past. I deplore the cheapness of construction and the corners that are cut to make them. I bought my wife the white (prev-gen) MacBook and even that blows away the quality bar of any Dell, Toshiba or HP that I have owned.
So educate yourself and stop sounding like an absolute idiot. And if you want to get into a scuffle on the matter I would be more then happy to take this to a relevant thread.
By the way... I have code that lives in Windows (xp) - i have worked EXTENSIVELY in the windows world.. and I can bring things to light about manufactures and the windows world that will question any argument.. so do please push me.
Sorry... in bad mood today... had to take it out somewhere.
if you think that apple make fault free products (hardware or software) then you clearly haven't
spent too long around these forums, or owned too much apple product in the past.
these days Apple releases just as much dodgy hardware as the rest of the bunch
don't believe me? have a look at apple defects wiki - the list is very long for both the MB and MBP
plus it wouldn't be the first time apple has done something illegal regarding locking people into their corporate money grabbing ideas...
remember the original iphone launch?
remember what the courts in a number of countries (notably EU ones) made apple do? (because of legal issues no less)
they now must sell the iphone without being locked to a contract in those countries
this is the inverse (software locked to hardware)... but it's the same principle
I wish Psystar my best here, but this is unfortunately where DMCA stifles competition and innovation. What was really intended to protect copyrighted content from illegally being copied is now being used to lock software to specific hardware and lock legitimate software out of other hardware. The founding fathers are rolling in their graves. This is corporate lobbyists in DC at their "finest". Unfortunately, fixing the DMCA is non-existent on the list of campaign issues for elected officials and the electorate is, for the most part, fat, dumb and happy with their gadgets.
I'd also love to hear from some of the open source people who laid the groundwork of OS X as to their opinion of Apple building on their work and then locking it out of other hardware.
I actually own a copy of Leopard. Nowhere on or inside the package does it say "upgrade". There is no law preventing Apple from selling upgrade vs. non-upgrade priced copies of their OS. It is definitely not the purpose of DMCA to protect Apple from a flawed sales model. Also, there is no law forcing Apple to write device drivers. There is no law forcing Apple to offer support to unsupported platforms (Apple does also nicely list the system requirements).
Apple, or any other company, does not have the right to stifle any user or programmer from writing code, even if the code goes against copyright agreement. What one does in their home is their personal right. There always has been software that allowed Apple software to run on Intel boxes, yes even for OS 8 and 9, I saw one of those companies at the MWExpo in NY.
The problem is when one turns it into a business. For example, you are allowed to download Hackintosh and use it, but you can't use Hackintosh to start a business because now you'll be stepping on Apple's toes. Another example, you are allowed to unlock or jailbreak your iPhone, you might loose your warranty by doing so but you are allowed to do it. You are allowed to write software that allows the iPhone software to be installed on other phones, but your not allowed to make a business out of it.
That is why Apple cannot legally send a Cease and Desist to the programmers of Hackintosh or iPhone jailbreaking software, it's legal as long as it's a hobby. Hackintosh can even put up a stand in the SF MWExpo, and Apple cannot do a thing about it, legally that is.
Back to Psystar. They are definitely jerks, trying to take a free ride on Apple's success.
just take a look at what happened when Mattel brought suit against the people that make the "Bratz" dolls.. They have been ordered to cease and dessist and turn over all Bratz Merchandise to Mattel.... This case is pretty cut and dry.
Comments
Have you even used a 360 in the last year? I don't really care for the platform, but to deny that it has a store or products sounds pretty ignorant to me.
I wish I knew, it doesn't seem to be the money pit that it was, though write-down because of the RROD issue must have really hurt.
Well Jeff, you assume that all people live in USA where is the only place where everything is available, just compared it to iTunes or the new born App Store that is available in way more countries with the full array of products.
When you compare Xbox store to Apple's is kind of ridiculous.
In my country I was one of the first to buy an xbox, same happened with the 360. Lame I can't buy anything from the store as it happens with some other 6 to 8 millions xbox users around Latin America.
All the stuff I bought from that store was in one of my trips to USA, at least I can travel there, thank god I don't live there anymore.
Happier over here
waaah, waaah, Apple. Just give it up already. Open up your damn operating system so people can install it on their machines without getting gouged on the prices.
When you compare component to component on an equal quality to quality scale... when you consider the full fit-n-finish of the end product... or even when you don't and just compare components - the Macs are a value equal to and sometimes better then the likes of Dell.
This has been confirmed by such notable entities as Tom's Hardware.... and I dare say... if you dare mention that Dell sells $500 notebooks while Apple's are $1000 - then just know that we will stand here and laugh at your ignorance.
I sit here before my brand new Mac Book Pro and relish that it is built so much better then any PC that I have in possession or have used in the past. I deplore the cheapness of construction and the corners that are cut to make them. I bought my wife the white (prev-gen) MacBook and even that blows away the quality bar of any Dell, Toshiba or HP that I have owned.
So educate yourself and stop sounding like an absolute idiot. And if you want to get into a scuffle on the matter I would be more then happy to take this to a relevant thread.
By the way... I have code that lives in Windows (xp) - i have worked EXTENSIVELY in the windows world.. and I can bring things to light about manufactures and the windows world that will question any argument.. so do please push me.
Sorry... in bad mood today... had to take it out somewhere.
MS doesn't want OS X to be forced licensed, perhaps even more than Apple. MS is already losing plenty of marketshare on the OS and web browser front, if Psystar were to get their way (which they won't) all this would do would make OS X a premium and desirable OS that would be quite popular on Dell, Sony, etc. even if it was sold at a premium since Apple only sells a single version of the OS which is inline with Windows Vista Ultimate ̈Über-Düber version. Only the PC HW vendors would gain as it would allow them to pull back some of the switchers to their Windows and Linux based systems.
The word is that they are making money on each unit, but I'm sure there are still billions they need to make back before they are in the black for their gaming division.
I think just the same about MS not wanting OS X licensed to x86 platform. But the fact that MS is worried so much cause Apple success its not new. They lost some battles long time ago. Maybe they felt secure with their monopoly and big and endless contracts with Dell, HP, and others. Internet Explorer sucks, failed to buy Yahoo, Google became a Giant.
At the end is their problem to be not competitive at all, people get sick of them, their products and they way they do business.
The only ones that can't see why is MS, thats why Zune and Vista failed.
I am just aching to find out who the John Does are. There is no way some top corporate shop like Microsoft or Dell would be that dumb to risk serious PR damage by contributing to break the law. It just isn't their style.
Probably just a group of folks that thought they had a shot and rolled the wrong dice.
P
Are those rats I see scurrying to the upper levels? Must be the Psystar ship sinking!
I am just aching to find out who the John Does are. There is no way some top corporate shop like Microsoft or Dell would be that dumb to risk serious PR damage by contributing to break the law. It just isn't their style.
Probably just a group of folks that thought they had a shot and rolled the wrong dice.
P
Most likely some Chinese or Taiwanese backing here.
But the most eyebrow-raising element remains the 18th paragraph, which explicitly states that Apple believes ten unknown people or companies -- each nicknamed "John Doe" -- have contributed on some level to the numerous violations named in the amended suit.
"On information and belief, persons other than Psystar are involved in Psystar?s unlawful and improper activities described in this Amended Complaint," the new section reads. "The true names or capacities, whether individual, corporate, or otherwise, of these persons are unknown to Apple. Apple will seek leave to amend this complaint to show the unknown John Doe Defendants? true names and capacities when they are ascertained."
I predicted this eight months ago and have continually stated this.
http://www.idrankthekoolaid.com/?p=586
and
http://news.worldofapple.com/archive...-psystar-suit/
All of a sudden it is Groklaw who comes up with this? I had been suggesting via commentary for months that Apple ought to find some way to get to who Psystar's backers are. At the time most waived me off as a conspiracy nut. Boo yah. Looks like I might have been right all along.
And Psystar did nothing to EARN those sales. They didn't create a magnificent OS that makes their computers desireable. No, instead they hacked it up to run on their machine, stealing Apple's competitive edge and IP.
Oh well, I wouldn't be dumb enough to buy their clunky, loud boxes anyway. I have a beautiful iMac that takes up less space, is silent, and beautiful. (I got what I paid for)
Cheers! Go Apple!
It's not surprising to see there would be people backing Psystar. There will always be people backing these types of company to earn lots of money by undercutting a worldwide organization.
I'm still partly on Psystar's side though, not because of lower profit margins and not because of the restrictions in OS X. Psystar just know what options are on offer from Intel and are building good value desktops with those chips where Apple just refuse to use them and always opt for much more expensive components.
Instead of taking Psystar down, all they need is to make a competitive machine and Psystar will die all on its own.
Their Open Pro is:
Core 2 Quad 2.8GHz
4GB Ram
512MB 8600GT
$1399
By contrast, the quad 2.8GHz Mac Pro is
Xeon quad 2.8GHz
2GB Ram
256MB Radeon HD 2600XT
$2299
It's not that it's overpriced, it's just expensive parts. The processor in the Mac Pro I believe is the 2.80GHz 1600MHz fsb 45nm E5462 at $797.
The one in the Psystar is the 2.83GHz 1333MHz 45nm Q550 at $316.
Processor choice alone drops the price by $481. This could bring a quad desktop down to $1818. Then you can use cheaper types of Ram and you'd probably hit the $1699 mark.
The Psystar is still $300 cheaper but for that amount extra, a lot more people would pay the premium for a better quality machine. Bordering on $1000 more is just asking a bit much, especially when the benchmarks show them to be pretty close.
Psystar are simply giving people the choices they want whereas Apple say, these are our choices we don't care what you want.
I can picture the majority of the posters here now. Sitting in copper mesh cages wearing tin foil hats. LMAO
Seen any UFO's recently? All the conspiracy theorists here should piss off.
We all know the 10 individuals that are directly responsible for the ability of psystar to operate.
They are the individuals in the OSX86 scene who cracked the protection schemes and provided the ability to install OSX on bog standard X86 machines.
Just check through the forum archives at http://www.osx86project.org/
If any of these individuals can be traced they should watch their backs as if Apple's lawyers can get hold of them they will soon be worrying about losing their homes etc.
Like others have said before all Psystar will achieve is awakening the wrath of apple which will ultimately do nothing more that hurt the X86 scene. Looks like they were right.
Psystar are simply giving people the choices they want whereas Apple say, these are our choices we don't care what you want.
Hmmm...
So then you support company 'B' for stealing the IP of company 'A', markets and sells the product using the stolen IP from company 'A' simply because of the argument that company 'A' does not make what the community wants so therefore company 'B' is justified in filling that niche while company 'A' does all the work and receives nothing?
Nice argument.
And don't even tell me that Apple does get their revenue from Psystar buying the $129 retail license UPGRADE!
waaah, waaah, Apple. Just give it up already. Open up your damn operating system so people can install it on their machines without getting gouged on the prices.
Let's see, Vista = 199.95-319.95
Leopard= 129.95 - that's it ...top of the line 129.95.
So who exactly is getting gouged here.:
wow:
The "persons or companies" stuff is just boilerplate.
It's way more likely that these ten "John Doe's" are individuals, and very very likely that what they are talking about here is the individual hobbyists in the OSX86 community that cracked open the protection in the first place.
You can't make an argument that Psystar circumvented the copy protection without showing how they did it, where the code comes from, etc. And once you discover the "hobbyists" in question, you have to treat them the same as Psystar under the law.
It's likely that Psystar has screwed up the lives of a lot of innocent people who are now going to be charged in court.
Hobbyists can't afford millions of dollars in legal fees.
Hobbyists can't afford millions of dollars in legal fees.
How do you know? All it takes is for one of them to be filthy rich. Which isn't isn't that unlikely - there are a lot of rich people out there ...
Hmmm...
So then you support company 'B' for stealing the IP of company 'A', markets and sells the product using the stolen IP from company 'A' simply because of the argument that company 'A' does not make what the community wants so therefore company 'B' is justified in filling that niche while company 'A' does all the work and receives nothing?
Nice argument.
And don't even tell me that Apple does get their revenue from Psystar buying the $129 retail license UPGRADE!
(not to put words in Marvin's mouth but) I think his point is that large IP and licensing issues aside, Psystar is targeting a market niche that Apple leaves unserved; and, that Apple servicing that niche alone will squash Psystar.
waaah, waaah, Apple. Just give it up already. Open up your damn operating system so people can install it on their machines without getting gouged on the prices.
Don't be such an idiot. You talk about price gouging, but have you seen Microsoft's license fees? Do you want Apple to raise the cost of OS X if they can no longer cover the development costs with hardware sales? Of course, that likely doesn't bother you as you'd probably just pirate the software anyway.
When you compare component to component on an equal quality to quality scale... when you consider the full fit-n-finish of the end product... or even when you don't and just compare components - the Macs are a value equal to and sometimes better then the likes of Dell.
This has been confirmed by such notable entities as Tom's Hardware.... and I dare say... if you dare mention that Dell sells $500 notebooks while Apple's are $1000 - then just know that we will stand here and laugh at your ignorance.
I sit here before my brand new Mac Book Pro and relish that it is built so much better then any PC that I have in possession or have used in the past. I deplore the cheapness of construction and the corners that are cut to make them. I bought my wife the white (prev-gen) MacBook and even that blows away the quality bar of any Dell, Toshiba or HP that I have owned.
So educate yourself and stop sounding like an absolute idiot. And if you want to get into a scuffle on the matter I would be more then happy to take this to a relevant thread.
By the way... I have code that lives in Windows (xp) - i have worked EXTENSIVELY in the windows world.. and I can bring things to light about manufactures and the windows world that will question any argument.. so do please push me.
Sorry... in bad mood today... had to take it out somewhere.
if you think that apple make fault free products (hardware or software) then you clearly haven't
spent too long around these forums, or owned too much apple product in the past.
these days Apple releases just as much dodgy hardware as the rest of the bunch
don't believe me? have a look at apple defects wiki - the list is very long for both the MB and MBP
plus it wouldn't be the first time apple has done something illegal regarding locking people into their corporate money grabbing ideas...
remember the original iphone launch?
remember what the courts in a number of countries (notably EU ones) made apple do? (because of legal issues no less)
they now must sell the iphone without being locked to a contract in those countries
this is the inverse (software locked to hardware)... but it's the same principle
plus who's to say this isn't an anti-trust case?
if microsoft can get charged and pay settlement to avoid conviction because they locked out suppliers of internet browsers
who's to say apple couldn't get the same treatment for locking out hardware suppliers
(market share will have something to do with this, but since marketshare is growing...)
I'd also love to hear from some of the open source people who laid the groundwork of OS X as to their opinion of Apple building on their work and then locking it out of other hardware.
I actually own a copy of Leopard. Nowhere on or inside the package does it say "upgrade". There is no law preventing Apple from selling upgrade vs. non-upgrade priced copies of their OS. It is definitely not the purpose of DMCA to protect Apple from a flawed sales model. Also, there is no law forcing Apple to write device drivers. There is no law forcing Apple to offer support to unsupported platforms (Apple does also nicely list the system requirements).
The problem is when one turns it into a business. For example, you are allowed to download Hackintosh and use it, but you can't use Hackintosh to start a business because now you'll be stepping on Apple's toes. Another example, you are allowed to unlock or jailbreak your iPhone, you might loose your warranty by doing so but you are allowed to do it. You are allowed to write software that allows the iPhone software to be installed on other phones, but your not allowed to make a business out of it.
That is why Apple cannot legally send a Cease and Desist to the programmers of Hackintosh or iPhone jailbreaking software, it's legal as long as it's a hobby. Hackintosh can even put up a stand in the SF MWExpo, and Apple cannot do a thing about it, legally that is.
Back to Psystar. They are definitely jerks, trying to take a free ride on Apple's success.
I don't know if the XBox is making any money, but I wouldn't call it a failure it is a good product with some good games.
And as long as you buy a new one next year to replace the one that will have died you can still play those games.
I tell people all the time to buy the store replacement plan for any XBox they buy.