Wow, £240 a year, stop being such a tight-ass miser. You'd have been expected to pay £1000+ for that kind of service a year ago, what on earth is your problem.
Thank you for that balanced and courteous judgement, based on your in-depth knowledge of my personal circumstances, financial situation and phone usage requirements.
Most people in my peer group don't think the iPhone is worth the overall outlay. Its not a 'great' device. Its average at lots of things. Most people IMO want 'better' devices.
and for those moaning about the monthly plans and saying its all down to O2 or AT&T remember Apple effectively sets the price. They clearly wanted to sell it at $199 which meant a big fat subsidy which the carriers can only get back through the plans. If Apple had set the price at $399 then monthly plans could come down by $10 or so.
remember the TOTAL outlay is down purely to Apple.
My wife and I would both have an iPhone if AT&T weren't so damn expensive. I just can't justify it. We have tmobile and to switch we'd get less minutes and still pay more for the plan after adding txts. Then you still have to pay for the datapart. How txt is not included In the data plan is stupid. AT&T is basically robbing you in plain site. AT&T costs is the sole reason i don't have one! Then to be locks into that for two years! INSANE!
Same here. My girlfriend and I would have bought iPhones the day the 3G was released if it wasn't for the overpriced plan from AT&T. The iPhone itself is reasonably priced, considering what it is and all it's features. I'd love to dump my crappy Sony Ericsson phone and Palm TX. The iPhone is still woefully short on memory as far as using it for music goes.
Now we have a Family Plan from T-Mobile. Switching to AT&T, which in itself isn't a big deal, would more than double what we pay per month. We would gladly get make the switch if we could get a plan WITHOUT data charges. Neither of us does texting, so we don't care about that either.
We live in Manhattan and can find free Wi-Fi nearly everywhere, so why pay for data? I know quite a few people who feel the same.
AT&T really needs to make their iPhone plans more customizable and modular. I'm not really interested in jail breaking an iPhone either.
Hey AT&T, why not put the CUSTOMER first? What a concept
Same here. My girlfriend and I would have bought iPhones the day the 3G was released if it wasn't for the overpriced plan from AT&T. The iPhone itself is reasonably priced, considering what it is and all it's features. I'd love to dump my crappy Sony Ericsson phone and Palm TX. The iPhone is still woefully short on memory as far as using it for music goes.
Now we have a Family Plan from T-Mobile. Switching to AT&T, which in itself isn't a big deal, would more than double what we pay per month. We would gladly get make the switch if we could get a plan WITHOUT data charges. Neither of us does texting, so we don't care about that either.
We live in Manhattan and can find free Wi-Fi nearly everywhere, so why pay for data? I know quite a few people who feel the same.
AT&T really needs to make their iPhone plans more customizable and modular. I'm not really interested in jail breaking an iPhone either.
Hey AT&T, why not put the CUSTOMER first? What a concept
Apple sells the phone in to AT&T at a much greater cost than the RRP.
AT&T needs to recoup the subsidy....... from the consumer.
so if Apple were to:
1/ Raise the RRP
or
2/ Lower the wholesale handset price
then AT&T would have more flexibility with the price plans.
Of course Apple wants the
a/ Good publicity a $199 RRP gives them.
and
b/ the inflated profits of the wholesale price.
If you think AT&T is deliberately annoying all its customers then you are delusional.
Then why are AT&T's pricing for other smart phone plans the same? Why is Verizon's pricing for smart phone plans the same, or more?
People keep referring to their grandfathered in rates at T-Mobile, or basic phone plans from smaller carriers, as if that were the generally accepted metric for what an iPhone plan "ought" to cost, but that's ridiculous.
If there's a problem with what the handset manufacturers charge the carriers leading to inflated rates, then it is clearly endemic to the industry, and not an Apple thing by any stretch of the imagination.
Do I wish that data plans were cheaper? Sure. Do I wish basic phone plans were cheaper? You bet. Does the cost of operating an iPhone seem wildly out of line with industry norms? It absolutely does not, and anyone claiming that has got some other ax to grind.
$199 is certainly a fair price for the IPhone. The problem is the AT&T data charge. If AT&T made the data charge optional I would by an IPhone in an instant.
Ditto ! ! !
I would love an iphone too, and that is the big limitation. $30 every month for something I do not at all need.
As far as I can see from the limited information I've been able to find so far, you *have* to top up with a minimum of £10 every month (so, £120 per year minimum), and after the first year you have to top of a further £10 each month to get data services too (which are free for the first year). So, that's £240 per year after the first year. That's a complete and utter joke.
This isn't correct. The Carphone Warehouse employee I bought my Pay As You Go iphone from (they have cheaper insurance) said this was the case but I specifically asked O2 and they said clearly that the data access provided on the iphone is free for the first year and not dependent in any way on the topup amount. The small print says this too. Web and data access is free for 12 months and they notify you by text when this period ends. Nowhere is there written a message that says subject to a minimum £10 topup.
The biggest condition for free data for the first 12 months is that you must use the SIM in an original iphone. If O2 detects the SIM used in another device, they will suspend data access after notifying you. This must have something to do with the Apple/O2 exclusivity.
Beyond that 12 months, it couldn't be dependent on the topups as you are explicitly paying for data access.
Based on this, assuming you spend £50 worth of topups a year, you can get something like 20 texts and 20 minutes of call time a month and you are only paying 2/3 the cost of the lowest contract. Plus you have no contract so you can switch to something else at any time.
Us too. My wife and I would also have the iPhone if not for the fact that it would add about $50 per month in service fees. I actually use data very little and the data plan + $20 for text is just hard to justify with our usage.
You currently use the data plan very little. Prior to getting the iPhone I used the data plan $0. Now I use it quite a bit because it's actually useful as opposed to painful.
Then why are AT&T's pricing for other smart phone plans the same? Why is Verizon's pricing for smart phone plans the same, or more?
People keep referring to their grandfathered in rates at T-Mobile, or basic phone plans from smaller carriers, as if that were the generally accepted metric for what an iPhone plan "ought" to cost, but that's ridiculous.
If there's a problem with what the handset manufacturers charge the carriers leading to inflated rates, then it is clearly endemic to the industry, and not an Apple thing by any stretch of the imagination.
Do I wish that data plans were cheaper? Sure. Do I wish basic phone plans were cheaper? You bet. Does the cost of operating an iPhone seem wildly out of line with industry norms? It absolutely does not, and anyone claiming that has got some other ax to grind.
Don't confuse the issue with facts.
Besides, getting the iPhone without the dataplan is kinda like getting a Blackberry without email...
Ditto for the same reasons in Canada. Rogers, our only provider has extreme high usage plans. I don't have a problem with the phone, it's the carrier. I'll gladly pay the price for the phone. I know many others that would do the same. Just lower the darn rates!
This is a very simple issue. The iPhone 3G plans are simply much to expensive for a large portion of potential iPhone buyers, especially in a recession. The iPhone 3G should have NEVER required a mandatory $30/mo data plan in addition to the minimum $40/mo voice and the extra costs for text messages. Though cheaper than the equivalent on Verizon, it still costs you a minimum of $75-80 a month! Until this changes and AT&T makes this more affordable, they can give the damn thing away for free and still not see a major increase in sales!
Besides, getting the iPhone without the dataplan is kinda like getting a Blackberry without email...
Except for the fact that the iPhone has WiFi, and many people are blanketed in Wifi all day. I think one thing AT&T could do is offer a limited 1GB data plan for say $10 in addition to the $30 5GB option. This would open the phone up to a lot more people...
Why anyone would want to buy this phone without a data connection is beyond me. Thats the whole point of the phone, to be always connected. WiFi is NOT always connected. I'm sure when you go to a store it has WiFi available for everyone for free. Thats pure BS! So basically you want an iPhone just to say you have an iPhone. Without a data plan you won't be able to use half its feature unless you're at home or just happen to be where there's WiFi. Its not everywhere to everyone. If you don't want a data plan with this phone then you don't really want the phone. You'll see how disappointing the phone is without data plan real quick if you could in fact get one. Imagine trying to use the GPS, turn by turn maps while driving without a data plan. Imagine trying to get an important email while in the car without a data plan. I could go on and on about these points and bottom line, it ain't gonna happen! Not without a data plan. Basically you'd have a phone with an iPod. Apple can't make everything for everyone and some people just can't realize that. Maybe what AT&T should do is either lower the price of the data plan, or have multiple data plans available. I would never use more than 1 GB per month on mine for example and I think a lot of people would fit into the same boat. For others, well make a 5GB plan and/or an unlimited GB plan to go with it.
And T-Mobile isn't all that either. Sure, they may be cheaper but their coverage isn't any better than AT&T, and worse in a lot of areas. You'll never see a Verizon based iPhone as Apple would have to make a completely different iPhone as AT&T uses a completely different wireless technology than Verizon does and they aren't backwards compatible. I myself would love to see a Verizon based iPhone as I believe they have the best coverage in the US hands down with a vast spread of 3G (including in my area out in the sticks). Problem with Verzion is, they want control over their phones and it will be a cold day in hell before Apple gives any control of any of its products to someone else. I love Verizon's service, but their phones suck big time.
Katy Huberty and many others making estimates about iPhone sales, are doing it the way they traditionally have. They ask people which phone they will buy, what they are willing to spend, etc. And they base their estimates on the reports of these surveys.
These surveys, and the estimates in general, are making a huge mistake, in my opinion.
The iPhone is not "just a phone". It is essentially a hand-held device with the speed and power of a desktop computer. My (humble) prediction is that the iPhone will establish a market for software applications for hand-held devices as Windows did for the PC. With time people will buy an iPhone not because it is a phone, but because they want the music/ear-training program that works on the iPhone. Or a particular game that runs on the iPhone. Or the medical software that runs on the iPhone.
True, many such applications are available for other devices. But the App Store means people can buy applications quickly and easily. And, as a general rule, since they have been checked by Apple, they will work. (I said "generally". It would be unrealistic to expect that Apple can determine flaws in all 3rd party apps).
And for developers? All they have to do is WRITE the software. They don't have to maintain a web site and download the application etc. That all goes THROUGH the Apps store, for a very fair 1/3 of revenue.
Yes, because the economy is in a downswing it will take 2-3 years for the i-Phone to truly establish itself. But once it does, no one will catch it.
In summary, the iPhone is not just a phone. It is THE hand-held computing platform of the early 21st Century.
(Disclaimer- yes, I am an Apple stockholder. And I will soon purchase an iPhone. Bec, I am frustrated when I pay serious money for a medical textbook on my Palm Treo- which freezes 6 to 10 times a day-and the medical book I bought will not install on the Palm).
Comments
Wow, £240 a year, stop being such a tight-ass miser. You'd have been expected to pay £1000+ for that kind of service a year ago, what on earth is your problem.
Thank you for that balanced and courteous judgement, based on your in-depth knowledge of my personal circumstances, financial situation and phone usage requirements.
Moron.
Most people in my peer group don't think the iPhone is worth the overall outlay. Its not a 'great' device. Its average at lots of things. Most people IMO want 'better' devices.
and for those moaning about the monthly plans and saying its all down to O2 or AT&T remember Apple effectively sets the price. They clearly wanted to sell it at $199 which meant a big fat subsidy which the carriers can only get back through the plans. If Apple had set the price at $399 then monthly plans could come down by $10 or so.
remember the TOTAL outlay is down purely to Apple.
Give me a proper phone (Nokia,BB) any day.
I do find great value and use in the iPod Touch. It replaces a laptop 95% of the time, and I didn't mind paying $199 for it.
Keeping my basic cell phone, thank you.
My wife and I would both have an iPhone if AT&T weren't so damn expensive. I just can't justify it. We have tmobile and to switch we'd get less minutes and still pay more for the plan after adding txts. Then you still have to pay for the datapart. How txt is not included In the data plan is stupid. AT&T is basically robbing you in plain site. AT&T costs is the sole reason i don't have one! Then to be locks into that for two years! INSANE!
Same here. My girlfriend and I would have bought iPhones the day the 3G was released if it wasn't for the overpriced plan from AT&T. The iPhone itself is reasonably priced, considering what it is and all it's features. I'd love to dump my crappy Sony Ericsson phone and Palm TX. The iPhone is still woefully short on memory as far as using it for music goes.
Now we have a Family Plan from T-Mobile. Switching to AT&T, which in itself isn't a big deal, would more than double what we pay per month. We would gladly get make the switch if we could get a plan WITHOUT data charges. Neither of us does texting, so we don't care about that either.
We live in Manhattan and can find free Wi-Fi nearly everywhere, so why pay for data? I know quite a few people who feel the same.
AT&T really needs to make their iPhone plans more customizable and modular. I'm not really interested in jail breaking an iPhone either.
Hey AT&T, why not put the CUSTOMER first? What a concept
Same here. My girlfriend and I would have bought iPhones the day the 3G was released if it wasn't for the overpriced plan from AT&T. The iPhone itself is reasonably priced, considering what it is and all it's features. I'd love to dump my crappy Sony Ericsson phone and Palm TX. The iPhone is still woefully short on memory as far as using it for music goes.
Now we have a Family Plan from T-Mobile. Switching to AT&T, which in itself isn't a big deal, would more than double what we pay per month. We would gladly get make the switch if we could get a plan WITHOUT data charges. Neither of us does texting, so we don't care about that either.
We live in Manhattan and can find free Wi-Fi nearly everywhere, so why pay for data? I know quite a few people who feel the same.
AT&T really needs to make their iPhone plans more customizable and modular. I'm not really interested in jail breaking an iPhone either.
Hey AT&T, why not put the CUSTOMER first? What a concept
stop blaming AT&T!!
Apple sets the price!!!
"Common Sense", where is Thomas Paine when you need him? It's certainly lacking with the outgoing and incoming governments.
http://www.ushistory.org/paine/commonsense/
The trouble with "Common Sense" is that it's not very common.
stop blaming AT&T!!
Apple sets the price!!!
For AT&T's service plans? I think not.
For AT&T's service plans? I think not.
do you not understand???
APple sets the RRP of the phone.
Apple sells the phone in to AT&T at a much greater cost than the RRP.
AT&T needs to recoup the subsidy....... from the consumer.
so if Apple were to:
1/ Raise the RRP
or
2/ Lower the wholesale handset price
then AT&T would have more flexibility with the price plans.
Of course Apple wants the
a/ Good publicity a $199 RRP gives them.
and
b/ the inflated profits of the wholesale price.
If you think AT&T is deliberately annoying all its customers then you are delusional.
do you not understand???
APple sets the RRP of the phone.
Apple sells the phone in to AT&T at a much greater cost than the RRP.
AT&T needs to recoup the subsidy....... from the consumer.
so if Apple were to:
1/ Raise the RRP
or
2/ Lower the wholesale handset price
then AT&T would have more flexibility with the price plans.
Of course Apple wants the
a/ Good publicity a $199 RRP gives them.
and
b/ the inflated profits of the wholesale price.
If you think AT&T is deliberately annoying all its customers then you are delusional.
Then why are AT&T's pricing for other smart phone plans the same? Why is Verizon's pricing for smart phone plans the same, or more?
People keep referring to their grandfathered in rates at T-Mobile, or basic phone plans from smaller carriers, as if that were the generally accepted metric for what an iPhone plan "ought" to cost, but that's ridiculous.
If there's a problem with what the handset manufacturers charge the carriers leading to inflated rates, then it is clearly endemic to the industry, and not an Apple thing by any stretch of the imagination.
Do I wish that data plans were cheaper? Sure. Do I wish basic phone plans were cheaper? You bet. Does the cost of operating an iPhone seem wildly out of line with industry norms? It absolutely does not, and anyone claiming that has got some other ax to grind.
$199 is certainly a fair price for the IPhone. The problem is the AT&T data charge. If AT&T made the data charge optional I would by an IPhone in an instant.
Ditto ! ! !
I would love an iphone too, and that is the big limitation. $30 every month for something I do not at all need.
As far as I can see from the limited information I've been able to find so far, you *have* to top up with a minimum of £10 every month (so, £120 per year minimum), and after the first year you have to top of a further £10 each month to get data services too (which are free for the first year). So, that's £240 per year after the first year. That's a complete and utter joke.
This isn't correct. The Carphone Warehouse employee I bought my Pay As You Go iphone from (they have cheaper insurance) said this was the case but I specifically asked O2 and they said clearly that the data access provided on the iphone is free for the first year and not dependent in any way on the topup amount. The small print says this too. Web and data access is free for 12 months and they notify you by text when this period ends. Nowhere is there written a message that says subject to a minimum £10 topup.
The biggest condition for free data for the first 12 months is that you must use the SIM in an original iphone. If O2 detects the SIM used in another device, they will suspend data access after notifying you. This must have something to do with the Apple/O2 exclusivity.
Beyond that 12 months, it couldn't be dependent on the topups as you are explicitly paying for data access.
Based on this, assuming you spend £50 worth of topups a year, you can get something like 20 texts and 20 minutes of call time a month and you are only paying 2/3 the cost of the lowest contract. Plus you have no contract so you can switch to something else at any time.
Us too. My wife and I would also have the iPhone if not for the fact that it would add about $50 per month in service fees. I actually use data very little and the data plan + $20 for text is just hard to justify with our usage.
You currently use the data plan very little. Prior to getting the iPhone I used the data plan $0. Now I use it quite a bit because it's actually useful as opposed to painful.
Then why are AT&T's pricing for other smart phone plans the same? Why is Verizon's pricing for smart phone plans the same, or more?
People keep referring to their grandfathered in rates at T-Mobile, or basic phone plans from smaller carriers, as if that were the generally accepted metric for what an iPhone plan "ought" to cost, but that's ridiculous.
If there's a problem with what the handset manufacturers charge the carriers leading to inflated rates, then it is clearly endemic to the industry, and not an Apple thing by any stretch of the imagination.
Do I wish that data plans were cheaper? Sure. Do I wish basic phone plans were cheaper? You bet. Does the cost of operating an iPhone seem wildly out of line with industry norms? It absolutely does not, and anyone claiming that has got some other ax to grind.
Don't confuse the issue with facts.
Besides, getting the iPhone without the dataplan is kinda like getting a Blackberry without email...
Besides, getting the iPhone without the dataplan is kinda like getting a Blackberry without email...
Did you even bother to read any of the previous messages?
Besides, getting the iPhone without the dataplan is kinda like getting a Blackberry without email...
Except for the fact that the iPhone has WiFi, and many people are blanketed in Wifi all day. I think one thing AT&T could do is offer a limited 1GB data plan for say $10 in addition to the $30 5GB option. This would open the phone up to a lot more people...
And T-Mobile isn't all that either. Sure, they may be cheaper but their coverage isn't any better than AT&T, and worse in a lot of areas. You'll never see a Verizon based iPhone as Apple would have to make a completely different iPhone as AT&T uses a completely different wireless technology than Verizon does and they aren't backwards compatible. I myself would love to see a Verizon based iPhone as I believe they have the best coverage in the US hands down with a vast spread of 3G (including in my area out in the sticks). Problem with Verzion is, they want control over their phones and it will be a cold day in hell before Apple gives any control of any of its products to someone else. I love Verizon's service, but their phones suck big time.
These surveys, and the estimates in general, are making a huge mistake, in my opinion.
The iPhone is not "just a phone". It is essentially a hand-held device with the speed and power of a desktop computer. My (humble) prediction is that the iPhone will establish a market for software applications for hand-held devices as Windows did for the PC. With time people will buy an iPhone not because it is a phone, but because they want the music/ear-training program that works on the iPhone. Or a particular game that runs on the iPhone. Or the medical software that runs on the iPhone.
True, many such applications are available for other devices. But the App Store means people can buy applications quickly and easily. And, as a general rule, since they have been checked by Apple, they will work. (I said "generally". It would be unrealistic to expect that Apple can determine flaws in all 3rd party apps).
And for developers? All they have to do is WRITE the software. They don't have to maintain a web site and download the application etc. That all goes THROUGH the Apps store, for a very fair 1/3 of revenue.
Yes, because the economy is in a downswing it will take 2-3 years for the i-Phone to truly establish itself. But once it does, no one will catch it.
In summary, the iPhone is not just a phone. It is THE hand-held computing platform of the early 21st Century.
(Disclaimer- yes, I am an Apple stockholder. And I will soon purchase an iPhone. Bec, I am frustrated when I pay serious money for a medical textbook on my Palm Treo- which freezes 6 to 10 times a day-and the medical book I bought will not install on the Palm).