While I don't know for fact, I would bet the 20" iMac is the best selling iMac.
Sure but what I mean is that due to the lower priced desktop chips, the 24" would be at the same price as the 20". They did this with the 17" version at one point, although they used a cheaper panel in the 20" that replaced it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
Well hopefully Apple won't degenerate into the highly questionable benchmarking that was common when the G's where being marketed. OpenCL is great and all but the last thing we need is some sort of garbage bench mark being promoted b Apple the way they did some of the G5 benchmarks. Generally what they did was to concentrate of the good things that maybe didn't have universal usage by Apple hardware buyers.
Yeah, I wouldn't like to see them doing that again but I'd be content to see an improvement in even specific cases. It's another selling point really.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider
I would prefer they return to the mac quadrant. Eliminate the imac and mini. Those 2 compete for sales.
My concern there is that the Macbook used to be the ibook:
ibook, powerbook, iMac, PowerMac. The Mini was added on as a new product.
Sure but what I mean is that due to the lower priced desktop chips, the 24" would be at the same price as the 20". They did this with the 17" version at one point, although they used a cheaper panel in the 20" that replaced it.
.
I suspect, as another poster here has suggested(mjtiex?) that the imac will get LED backlit displays and that will soak up some of cost savings of a cheaper cpu.
My concern there is that the Macbook used to be the ibook:
ibook, powerbook, iMac, PowerMac. The Mini was added on as a new product.
True.
I would, along with others probably, rather a mac mini (renamed simply "mac) than an iMac.
The new monitor suggests integration-ability that could make it an imac if you so choose, and add the flexibility of upgrading and/or using a different monitor/multiple monitors etc.
If the mac mini were redesigned to somehow fit into the monitor seamlessly etc., seems like the iMac could be a useless product (and morph into the iLCDTV?)
I would prefer they return to the mac quadrant. Eliminate the imac and mini. Those 2 compete for sales.
As mentioned in another thread I think they should split the iMac line in 2:
a high-end mobile worksation (i.e. 19" or 20" laptop) and
a desktop without screen, the fabled xMac, but with a case based on the current Mac Pro.
So the new product matrix should be:
MacBook
MacBook Pro
MacBook Extreme
Mac
Mac Pro
Mac Extreme
'MacBook Extreme' is a replacement for the current 20" iMac with built-to-order ranges from very basic (and cheap) to fully high-end with quad-core, SLI etc.
'Mac' is the former Mac mini, now the new basic Mac model.
'Mac Pro' is the 'x Mac' a smaller version of the current Mac Pro design.
'Mac Extreme' is the successor to the current Mac Pro.
The term "fanboy" is a cheap tactic used to cover a weak and flawed argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur
Are you ten years old or just plain stupid? Do you post for no other reason than to insult AI members?
The word 'fanboys' has been used by many members. Are they all hysterical? Are you going to ignore them all no matter what their opinion is?
I see nothing positive in your post, but only a negative diatribe. You say, "In your experience." You must not have much. Either grow up or stay out of this forum.
There are some good thoughts about a re-aligning of Apple's hardware products. I think it is something that will come and already has to a limited extent. Here are my thoughts on what the new alignment would look like:
Macbook - basic consumer laptop
Macbook Pro - advanced laptop for consumers and professionals
Macbook Air- specialty laptop for a limited market
Mac - basic consumer desktop computer (today's iMac)
Mac Pro - advanced desktop computer (xMac) with limited hard drive/video expandability
Mac mini - specialty desktop for a limited market
xStation - Professional workstation/workgroup (Small-biz) server
Hell NO! SJ and Apple just don't give a rap about the 'faithful'. They'd rather play mind games with us. They expect us to be loyal to Apple, but that's a one way street. Isn't that apparent from all the crap they've foisted on us? When has Apple EVER had it's users in mind? They are up in their ivory tower with NO regard to users who keep them in business. Do I sound bitter? You bet your a__ I am.
Do any of you fanboys think my opinion is wrong? Do you think Apple actually cares about us?
Doesn't the support cut off of G4's tell you what Apple thinks of users?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell
The G4 is 10 years old now, how long do you expect them to continue to support it?
Apple has never been sentimental for legacy technology. At some point you have to let go of old and antiquated technology, to then support optimized and lightweight technology. This is exactly the same as when Apple switched from OS 9 to OS X.
I probably could have been more explicit. I am NOT in favor of long term legacy either. However, if you had read the rest of my post, you would have seen the frustration I feel. I bought my G4, a DESK TOP computer, not 10 years ago, but about 6 years ago. I paid around $1500 for it, and it has served me well. But it's getting long in the tooth, and I would like to replace it - not patch it if (when) it begins to falter. Apple doesn't give me that option. A Mac Pro is complete overkill for me. An iMac all-in-one is not an option as I don't want a Mac equipped with laptop parts and a monitor that I can't replace without replacing the entire machine. The Mini has not been upgraded, and Apple has not seen fit to field a real honest-to-goodness desktop - xMac, Mac, or whatever you want to call it. So, as my G4 ages, I am left with NO choices or options. Apple is neither giving me a desktop to replace it nor will they support the one I have. I've been (ahem) patiently waiting for a replacement, but what happens when the G4 dies and there is NO replacement NOR a fix?
Where is the optimized and lightweight technology that you mentioned? If you're not it in my shoes, you have no right to criticize my situation.
BTW, I wasn't trying to be glib with the word 'fanboy'. I have read it so often in this forum that I thought it was okay to use. My apologies to anyone that word offends.
WHAT WISHFUL THINKING? Most people will agree with you! It's just common bloody sense! The only thing I would say is that Apple can still use the Nvidia integrated GPU/chipset with Quadcore in the iMacs. Save costs by using a common chipset across almost all their Macs. You could, for example, have a 9400M-chipset-iMac with Quadcore and fast 4000-series dedicated Radeon graphics. The Nvidia 9400 chipset is good for the iMac as well because it is DDR3 RAM, potential for Hybrid SLI if the dedicated graphics are a 9600 or 9800 Nvidia...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krassy
my thoughts are more like:
mac mini - nvidia (desktop version of the MacBooks)
iMac - something "bigger" with quad (real desktop)
No, forget about loyalty, etc. It comes down to simple choice now, and what we find valuable, particularly in this economy. I got about USD $1,000 in savings now. At this stage, the only thing looking to show value, Mac wise, is the White MacBook 9400M graphics. Being thirty and living with my parents (hey, it's Asia, that's my excuse) healthcare and rental is kinda covered. As long as I am paying my own way, that's what matters and that I can hold down a job/ some sort of a working life...
Anyways, back to what I was saying.
We'll see if the iMac and Mac Mini brings something to the table, value-wise. Otherwise $500 can buy a decent PC gaming rig, and the other $500 can go to a current Mac Mini if my current MacBook dies on me. 19" screens are cheap so I can leave one at work, one at home, and just carry the Mac Mini to and fro if needed.
Sequitur, let the past go. Apple is a grown-up company now. We owe nothing to them except what we offer to other Mac users in kindness and camaraderie. Apple owes nothing to us except what they promise in terms of quality and service for *actual* (not what we desire) products.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur View Post
Hell NO! SJ and Apple just don't give a rap about the 'faithful'. They'd rather play mind games with us. They expect us to be loyal to Apple, but that's a one way street. Isn't that apparent from all the crap they've foisted on us? When has Apple EVER had it's users in mind? They are up in their ivory tower with NO regard to users who keep them in business. Do I sound bitter? You bet your a__ I am.
Do any of you fanboys think my opinion is wrong? Do you think Apple actually cares about us?
Are you ten years old or just plain stupid? Do you post for no other reason than to insult AI members?
The word 'fanboys' has been used by many members. Are they all hysterical? Are you going to ignore them all no matter what their opinion is?
I see nothing positive in your post, but only a negative diatribe. You say, "In your experience." You must not have much. Either grow up or stay out of this forum.
I'm fine with "FANBOYS" if we can call the other side "SLAMBOTS" (not referring to anyone in particular, just suggesting some common terms with which we wage a fair war...
The compromise would be a 22" LED backlit iMac then, as the main desktop Mac line.
Lower end with 9400M integrated graphics* and DualCore, Higher end is 9400M with 9600M GT and QuadCore.
Then, there is the 28" iMac for ... well ... 20% desktop computing, 80% iTunes Store watching. Also, 50% of these iMac buyers will be those doing "Pro/Prosumer work". Those absolutely not in favour of glossy will simply get an external 30" or smaller/bigger "Pro calibrated etc" monitor or a Mac Pro with 30" display. Remember the 23" Apple Cinema Display has been discontinued for several months now.
No more 24" then.
By March 2009 the demand for bigger and bigger screens is growing rapidly. There seems to be some sort of price/manufacturing/consumer-demand "sweetspot" at 22 inches, I feel, somehow. For customers looking for value, a big-ass 22" LED backlit 1680x1050 iMac at a roughly-$1000+ USD price point is rather impressive and can combat negativity on lack of being a Core i7, etc. etc.
So 22" and 28" iMacs announced by the middle of March.
Based on the above predictions, and the AppleTV survey, it would suggest by the middle of the year the AppleTV and MacMini will somehow be merged. [Convergence, if you will? Such a dirty word.] ... Which means only iMac update by end of March, no AppleTV or Mac Mini update until middle of the year.
*Edit: If it's a 22" 1680x1050 then Apple will have to play ball and put a 9600M GT in both of the two models (lower end gets 256MB VRAM, higher end gets 512MB VRAM). Or Radeons... The desktop 4870 and 4850 Radeons go toe-to-toe with Nvidias quite well. Some slimmed down versions but still dedicated GPUs at a good price may entice Apple even though the iMac would use the 9400 chipset.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
Sure but what I mean is that due to the lower priced desktop chips, the 24" would be at the same price as the 20". They did this with the 17" version at one point, although they used a cheaper panel in the 20" that replaced it.
Yeah, I wouldn't like to see them doing that again but I'd be content to see an improvement in even specific cases. It's another selling point really.
My concern there is that the Macbook used to be the ibook:
ibook, powerbook, iMac, PowerMac. The Mini was added on as a new product.
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac
I suspect, as another poster here has suggested(mjtiex?) that the imac will get LED backlit displays and that will soak up some of cost savings of a cheaper cpu.
Sure, but so was the Cube... in the fridge for quite some time now.
I know that's nearly an 8 year old press release but to me, it conveys that Apple will always have a powerful cube computer in the labs. Not the mini; the pr specifically talks about a "new class of computer delivering high performance in an eight-inch cube". The 8 inch part may change but I think the idea of a perfect cube shaped computer appeals to Apple's industrial design sensibilities.
I know that's nearly an 8 year old press release but to me, it conveys that Apple will always have a powerful cube computer in the labs. Not the mini; the pr specifically talks about a "new class of computer delivering high performance in an eight-inch cube". The 8 inch part may change but I think the idea of a perfect cube shaped computer appeals to Apple's industrial design sensibilities.
Cube is too "fat" by Apple's standards nowadays. Unless it was a hollowed-out Aluminium Unibody cube or something like that.
It is. It's a big fat beached whale that Apple forgot about. I'm not a Pro user but Pro users do complain about the Mac Pro. It tends to be not updated as frequently, no ability to use with 24" LED Cinema Display for whatever reason, the casing is beautiful but huge, graphics options are very limited, uses FB-DIMMs which are expensive and where ECC is really not needed.
Slim down the Mac Pro (within reason, don't cripple it), give it some decent UPDATED graphics options, give it Core i7 with DDR3 (is the "server" version of Core i7 *really needed*??) or Nehalem whatever etc. etc. 8 core Xeon is fantastic but time for a nice juicy update, Apple.
It is. It's a big fat beached whale that Apple forgot about. I'm not a Pro user but Pro users do complain about the Mac Pro. It tends to be not updated as frequently, no ability to use with 24" LED Cinema Display for whatever reason, the casing is beautiful but huge, graphics options are very limited, uses FB-DIMMs which are expensive and where ECC is really not needed.
Slim down the Mac Pro (within reason, don't cripple it), give it some decent UPDATED graphics options, give it Core i7 with DDR3 (is the "server" version of Core i7 *really needed*??) or Nehalem whatever etc. etc. 8 core Xeon is fantastic but time for a nice juicy update, Apple.
In another post, I mentioned a rumor on my campus that the Mac Pro may merge with the iMac as an upgradeable, accessible hybrid. I suppose that means smaller than the Mac Pro but larger than the iMac. Has anyone here run across this rumor? If it does come to pass, it'll be another unfortunate all-in-one. Mixed emotions?!?!
Comments
That would be foolish IMO.
While I don't know for fact, I would bet the 20" iMac is the best selling iMac.
Sure but what I mean is that due to the lower priced desktop chips, the 24" would be at the same price as the 20". They did this with the 17" version at one point, although they used a cheaper panel in the 20" that replaced it.
Well hopefully Apple won't degenerate into the highly questionable benchmarking that was common when the G's where being marketed. OpenCL is great and all but the last thing we need is some sort of garbage bench mark being promoted b Apple the way they did some of the G5 benchmarks. Generally what they did was to concentrate of the good things that maybe didn't have universal usage by Apple hardware buyers.
Yeah, I wouldn't like to see them doing that again but I'd be content to see an improvement in even specific cases. It's another selling point really.
I would prefer they return to the mac quadrant. Eliminate the imac and mini. Those 2 compete for sales.
My concern there is that the Macbook used to be the ibook:
ibook, powerbook, iMac, PowerMac. The Mini was added on as a new product.
Sure but what I mean is that due to the lower priced desktop chips, the 24" would be at the same price as the 20". They did this with the 17" version at one point, although they used a cheaper panel in the 20" that replaced it.
.
I suspect, as another poster here has suggested(mjtiex?) that the imac will get LED backlit displays and that will soak up some of cost savings of a cheaper cpu.
My concern there is that the Macbook used to be the ibook:
ibook, powerbook, iMac, PowerMac. The Mini was added on as a new product.
True.
I would, along with others probably, rather a mac mini (renamed simply "mac) than an iMac.
The new monitor suggests integration-ability that could make it an imac if you so choose, and add the flexibility of upgrading and/or using a different monitor/multiple monitors etc.
If the mac mini were redesigned to somehow fit into the monitor seamlessly etc., seems like the iMac could be a useless product (and morph into the iLCDTV?)
I would prefer they return to the mac quadrant. Eliminate the imac and mini. Those 2 compete for sales.
As mentioned in another thread I think they should split the iMac line in 2:
a high-end mobile worksation (i.e. 19" or 20" laptop) and
a desktop without screen, the fabled xMac, but with a case based on the current Mac Pro.
So the new product matrix should be:
'MacBook Extreme' is a replacement for the current 20" iMac with built-to-order ranges from very basic (and cheap) to fully high-end with quad-core, SLI etc.
'Mac' is the former Mac mini, now the new basic Mac model.
'Mac Pro' is the 'x Mac' a smaller version of the current Mac Pro design.
'Mac Extreme' is the successor to the current Mac Pro.
Are you ten years old or just plain stupid? Do you post for no other reason than to insult AI members?
The word 'fanboys' has been used by many members. Are they all hysterical? Are you going to ignore them all no matter what their opinion is?
I see nothing positive in your post, but only a negative diatribe. You say, "In your experience." You must not have much. Either grow up or stay out of this forum.
Macbook - basic consumer laptop
Macbook Pro - advanced laptop for consumers and professionals
Macbook Air- specialty laptop for a limited market
Mac - basic consumer desktop computer (today's iMac)
Mac Pro - advanced desktop computer (xMac) with limited hard drive/video expandability
Mac mini - specialty desktop for a limited market
xStation - Professional workstation/workgroup (Small-biz) server
xServe - Professional server
Originally Posted by sequitur View Post
Hell NO! SJ and Apple just don't give a rap about the 'faithful'. They'd rather play mind games with us. They expect us to be loyal to Apple, but that's a one way street. Isn't that apparent from all the crap they've foisted on us? When has Apple EVER had it's users in mind? They are up in their ivory tower with NO regard to users who keep them in business. Do I sound bitter? You bet your a__ I am.
Do any of you fanboys think my opinion is wrong? Do you think Apple actually cares about us?
Doesn't the support cut off of G4's tell you what Apple thinks of users?
The G4 is 10 years old now, how long do you expect them to continue to support it?
Apple has never been sentimental for legacy technology. At some point you have to let go of old and antiquated technology, to then support optimized and lightweight technology. This is exactly the same as when Apple switched from OS 9 to OS X.
I probably could have been more explicit. I am NOT in favor of long term legacy either. However, if you had read the rest of my post, you would have seen the frustration I feel. I bought my G4, a DESK TOP computer, not 10 years ago, but about 6 years ago. I paid around $1500 for it, and it has served me well. But it's getting long in the tooth, and I would like to replace it - not patch it if (when) it begins to falter. Apple doesn't give me that option. A Mac Pro is complete overkill for me. An iMac all-in-one is not an option as I don't want a Mac equipped with laptop parts and a monitor that I can't replace without replacing the entire machine. The Mini has not been upgraded, and Apple has not seen fit to field a real honest-to-goodness desktop - xMac, Mac, or whatever you want to call it. So, as my G4 ages, I am left with NO choices or options. Apple is neither giving me a desktop to replace it nor will they support the one I have. I've been (ahem) patiently waiting for a replacement, but what happens when the G4 dies and there is NO replacement NOR a fix?
Where is the optimized and lightweight technology that you mentioned? If you're not it in my shoes, you have no right to criticize my situation.
BTW, I wasn't trying to be glib with the word 'fanboy'. I have read it so often in this forum that I thought it was okay to use. My apologies to anyone that word offends.
Interesting idea, what exactly is a "Mac"?
I would prefer they return to the mac quadrant. Eliminate the imac and mini. Those 2 compete for sales.
my thoughts are more like:
mac mini - nvidia (desktop version of the MacBooks)
iMac - something "bigger" with quad (real desktop)
but who knows, maybe that's just wishful thinking
Anyways, back to what I was saying.
We'll see if the iMac and Mac Mini brings something to the table, value-wise. Otherwise $500 can buy a decent PC gaming rig, and the other $500 can go to a current Mac Mini if my current MacBook dies on me. 19" screens are cheap so I can leave one at work, one at home, and just carry the Mac Mini to and fro if needed.
Sequitur, let the past go. Apple is a grown-up company now. We owe nothing to them except what we offer to other Mac users in kindness and camaraderie. Apple owes nothing to us except what they promise in terms of quality and service for *actual* (not what we desire) products.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur View Post
Hell NO! SJ and Apple just don't give a rap about the 'faithful'. They'd rather play mind games with us. They expect us to be loyal to Apple, but that's a one way street. Isn't that apparent from all the crap they've foisted on us? When has Apple EVER had it's users in mind? They are up in their ivory tower with NO regard to users who keep them in business. Do I sound bitter? You bet your a__ I am.
Do any of you fanboys think my opinion is wrong? Do you think Apple actually cares about us?
Are you ten years old or just plain stupid? Do you post for no other reason than to insult AI members?
The word 'fanboys' has been used by many members. Are they all hysterical? Are you going to ignore them all no matter what their opinion is?
I see nothing positive in your post, but only a negative diatribe. You say, "In your experience." You must not have much. Either grow up or stay out of this forum.
I'm fine with "FANBOYS" if we can call the other side "SLAMBOTS" (not referring to anyone in particular, just suggesting some common terms with which we wage a fair war...
Lower end with 9400M integrated graphics* and DualCore, Higher end is 9400M with 9600M GT and QuadCore.
Then, there is the 28" iMac for ... well ... 20% desktop computing, 80% iTunes Store watching. Also, 50% of these iMac buyers will be those doing "Pro/Prosumer work". Those absolutely not in favour of glossy will simply get an external 30" or smaller/bigger "Pro calibrated etc" monitor or a Mac Pro with 30" display. Remember the 23" Apple Cinema Display has been discontinued for several months now.
No more 24" then.
By March 2009 the demand for bigger and bigger screens is growing rapidly. There seems to be some sort of price/manufacturing/consumer-demand "sweetspot" at 22 inches, I feel, somehow. For customers looking for value, a big-ass 22" LED backlit 1680x1050 iMac at a roughly-$1000+ USD price point is rather impressive and can combat negativity on lack of being a Core i7, etc. etc.
So 22" and 28" iMacs announced by the middle of March.
Based on the above predictions, and the AppleTV survey, it would suggest by the middle of the year the AppleTV and MacMini will somehow be merged. [Convergence, if you will? Such a dirty word.] ... Which means only iMac update by end of March, no AppleTV or Mac Mini update until middle of the year.
*Edit: If it's a 22" 1680x1050 then Apple will have to play ball and put a 9600M GT in both of the two models (lower end gets 256MB VRAM, higher end gets 512MB VRAM). Or Radeons... The desktop 4870 and 4850 Radeons go toe-to-toe with Nvidias quite well. Some slimmed down versions but still dedicated GPUs at a good price may entice Apple even though the iMac would use the 9400 chipset.
Sure but what I mean is that due to the lower priced desktop chips, the 24" would be at the same price as the 20". They did this with the 17" version at one point, although they used a cheaper panel in the 20" that replaced it.
Yeah, I wouldn't like to see them doing that again but I'd be content to see an improvement in even specific cases. It's another selling point really.
My concern there is that the Macbook used to be the ibook:
ibook, powerbook, iMac, PowerMac. The Mini was added on as a new product.
I suspect, as another poster here has suggested(mjtiex?) that the imac will get LED backlit displays and that will soak up some of cost savings of a cheaper cpu.
The Mini was added on as a new product.
Sure, but so was the Cube... in the fridge for quite some time now.
Sure, but so was the Cube... in the fridge for quite some time now.
I know that's nearly an 8 year old press release but to me, it conveys that Apple will always have a powerful cube computer in the labs. Not the mini; the pr specifically talks about a "new class of computer delivering high performance in an eight-inch cube". The 8 inch part may change but I think the idea of a perfect cube shaped computer appeals to Apple's industrial design sensibilities.
I know that's nearly an 8 year old press release but to me, it conveys that Apple will always have a powerful cube computer in the labs. Not the mini; the pr specifically talks about a "new class of computer delivering high performance in an eight-inch cube". The 8 inch part may change but I think the idea of a perfect cube shaped computer appeals to Apple's industrial design sensibilities.
Cube is too "fat" by Apple's standards nowadays. Unless it was a hollowed-out Aluminium Unibody cube or something like that.
Cube is too "fat" by Apple's standards nowadays. Unless it was a hollowed-out Aluminium Unibody cube or something like that.
Maybe, but then the Mac Pro is a behemoth.
Maybe, but then the Mac Pro is a behemoth.
It is. It's a big fat beached whale that Apple forgot about. I'm not a Pro user but Pro users do complain about the Mac Pro. It tends to be not updated as frequently, no ability to use with 24" LED Cinema Display for whatever reason, the casing is beautiful but huge, graphics options are very limited, uses FB-DIMMs which are expensive and where ECC is really not needed.
Slim down the Mac Pro (within reason, don't cripple it), give it some decent UPDATED graphics options, give it Core i7 with DDR3 (is the "server" version of Core i7 *really needed*??) or Nehalem whatever etc. etc. 8 core Xeon is fantastic but time for a nice juicy update, Apple.
It is. It's a big fat beached whale that Apple forgot about. I'm not a Pro user but Pro users do complain about the Mac Pro. It tends to be not updated as frequently, no ability to use with 24" LED Cinema Display for whatever reason, the casing is beautiful but huge, graphics options are very limited, uses FB-DIMMs which are expensive and where ECC is really not needed.
Slim down the Mac Pro (within reason, don't cripple it), give it some decent UPDATED graphics options, give it Core i7 with DDR3 (is the "server" version of Core i7 *really needed*??) or Nehalem whatever etc. etc. 8 core Xeon is fantastic but time for a nice juicy update, Apple.
In another post, I mentioned a rumor on my campus that the Mac Pro may merge with the iMac as an upgradeable, accessible hybrid. I suppose that means smaller than the Mac Pro but larger than the iMac. Has anyone here run across this rumor? If it does come to pass, it'll be another unfortunate all-in-one. Mixed emotions?!?!
...upgradeable, accessible...
Those two words are the problem. When it comes to Apple.