Windows 7 vs. Mac OS X Snow Leopard: competitive origins

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  • Reply 21 of 116
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post


    Snow Leopard will make older Macs run faster and smoother...this is a great way of rewarding loyal Mac users.



    I still demand to see that with my own eyes. Not everyone has a 2.4 GHz - 4GB RAM computer, and Leopard has become quite a slow beast on my 2 GHz - 1GB RAM laptop.



    In general, however, 129 USD for a bunch of under the hood changes might be too high for most users.

    A young girl recently asked me how she could get the Photo Booth extras her friend had. Turns out it's because she's on Tiger and the other one is on Leopard. I told her that if she wanted that and other improvements, she'd have to convince her parents to get Leopard. She's starting to use her computer, so I have no doubt that QuickLook and other Leopard features (refined Spotlight, …) would soon come in handy.

    But does Apple have a way to convince that girl that she wants Snow Leopard?
  • Reply 22 of 116
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Daniel0418 View Post


    Well first of all I don't know how this is sad for you. If you like what you have then keep it. And how, long before the final release of either product are you saying, "while snow leopard will be a faster, more secure, and more advanced operating system in every way". You obviously don't know anything. There are so many factors to count in especially when it comes to speed. A previous poster said windows 7 beta was faster, I am sure other posters have had similar or opposite experiences depending on their machine and other things. So why don't we wait until the release to say which is better and for now you can say "snow leopard seems more inticing to me".



    Well, I see you have taken my rather mild criticisms of Widows 7 very personally, which is always a mistake.



    To be pedantic, how does my paraphrasing of the difference between the two OS's (even if it's an inaccurate stance as you imply), indicate that I "don't know anything?" How could I even write my name if this was true?



    As for the specific criticism, the poster here that said they thought Windows 7 "might even be faster" is the first I have heard from any user or reviewer that this is the case. The general consensus is that Snow Leopard, like Leopard before it, will be more stable than Windows, faster than Windows, and more secure than Windows although as you say, we don't know for sure at this stage.



    I may have been overly exuberant in my general assessment, but if you intend to remain so incredibly sensitive to any kind of criticism of Windows 7, perhaps here isn't the best place to post your thoughts.
  • Reply 23 of 116
    sxt1sxt1 Posts: 11member
    In Snow Leopard the Grand Central (API's) should give a better performance for multicore CPU or architectures. I just hope that this will not only benefit those with a Mac Pro running 4 or 8 cores!

    Could it be that those with 'just' a Core 2 Duo (MacMini, iMac, MacBook (Pro)) won't see any impressive (<5%) speed ups ??? I'm just wondering because many apps do profit from a dual core setup, like Photoshop, FCP, games etc.



    Anyone know more about this ?
  • Reply 24 of 116
    nagrommenagromme Posts: 2,834member
    Vista was Microsoft's 10.1. (Other than NOT being a clean break with the core legacy OS, which OS X did achieve.)



    Windows 7 is Microsoft's Jaguar. (Finally ready for a larger audience--we hope.)



    Snow Leopard is 4 versions later... Apple's Windows Windows 11! Say, 3 years per Windows cycle, that puts us around the year 2020
  • Reply 25 of 116
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by codymr View Post


    "Vista ended up a colossal failure due to the way it was sold by Microsoft"?



    Really? I know it took a long time to get to consumers and some people are irritated because it does not run as advertised on their machines and it's hard to discount the security problems Windows has... but my feeling is that Vista is like just about every other Microsoft product... they make the Chevy of the computer world - Apple makes the BMW.



    I think a more accurate way to say it is: "Vista was less well received due to the way it was sold by Microsoft".



    My friends who are on the PC platform all love Vista... and I suspect it was very profitable for Microsoft even with its troubled roll out... "a colossal failure" it was not. although it ain't OSX by any measure.



    the fact that 80% of windows users still use XP and the fact they ADVERTISE you can REVERT back to XP after buying Vista does, in my opinion, make it a failure. A colossal one even.



    It doesn't mean its a useless OS. My dad uses it and I get by just fine on it. But in the computer world where everything moves so quickly, to release something and advertise a move BACKWARD is pretty much a failure.
  • Reply 26 of 116
    nagrommenagromme Posts: 2,834member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SXT1 View Post


    In Snow Leopard the Grand Central (API's) should give a better performance for multicore CPU or architectures. I just hope that this will not only benefit those with a Mac Pro running 4 or 8 cores!

    Could it be that those with 'just' a Core 2 Duo (MacMini, iMac, MacBook (Pro)) won't see any impressive (<5%) speed ups ??? I'm just wondering because many apps do profit from a dual core setup, like Photoshop, FCP, games etc.



    Anyone know more about this ?



    I think all Intel users (with 2 cores at least) will see some worthwhile speed increases... but I think MOST increases will come AFTER developers release new versions of their apps that take true advantage of Snow Leopard. Even an 8 core Mac Pro may not see much immediate speed benefit. (But you never know, OS X does keep getting faster with each release.)
  • Reply 27 of 116
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,268member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PACraddock View Post


    I still demand to see that with my own eyes. Not everyone has a 2.4 GHz - 4GB RAM computer, and Leopard has become quite a slow beast on my 2 GHz - 1GB RAM laptop.



    In general, however, 129 USD for a bunch of under the hood changes might be too high for most users.

    A young girl recently asked me how she could get the Photo Booth extras her friend had. Turns out it's because she's on Tiger and the other one is on Leopard. I told her that if she wanted that and other improvements, she'd have to convince her parents to get Leopard. She's starting to use her computer, so I have no doubt that QuickLook and other Leopard features (refined Spotlight, ?) would soon come in handy.

    But does Apple have a way to convince that girl that she wants Snow Leopard?



    I highlighted your problem. I noticed a nice pickup bumping my mini from 1GB to 2GB



    I pray that SL isn't $129. Apple needs to get as many users that can run SL on it as possible. In fact



    [CENTER]just give it away for FREE[/CENTER]



    SL represents the crossover from aging and creaky OS X to the new hotness that takes us down a new path. Once we get critical mass in SL we all benefit from an optimized OS and developers will chase the largest group.
  • Reply 28 of 116
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by codymr View Post


    "Vista ended up a colossal failure due to the way it was sold by Microsoft"?



    Really? I know it took a long time to get to consumers and some people are irritated because it does not run as advertised on their machines and it's hard to discount the security problems Windows has... but my feeling is that Vista is like just about every other Microsoft product... they make the Chevy of the computer world - Apple makes the BMW.



    I think a more accurate way to say it is: "Vista was less well received due to the way it was sold by Microsoft".



    My friends who are on the PC platform all love Vista... and I suspect it was very profitable for Microsoft even with its troubled roll out... "a colossal failure" it was not. although it ain't OSX by any measure.



    Logically, if an OS comes out, performs poorly, sells very poorly, under-performs market expectations, and is replaced a year or two later by a 0.1 product that improves performance and largely replaces the UI, then yeah, "collosal failure" is apt.



    If Vista was so great, why is the UI on Windows 7 so different now?

    If Mac OS-X is so bad, why does Windows 7 copy even more of it?
  • Reply 29 of 116
    I tend to think that Win7 and Snow Leopard are more alike...



    Win7 is actually Win 6.1: a refinement of Vista with emphasis on speed and stability.



    Snow Leopard is a refinement of Leopard with emphasis on performance.



    I personally think Win7 will be a greater improvement over Vista than SLeopard will be over Leopard... (duh?)



    I use (and am very pleased with) XP. In order to play GTA IV, I either had to install XP SP 3 (a trojan, no thanks) or Vista SP 1. I opted for the latter and am underwhelmed. Win7 is very exciting to me and I hope it turns out well. Good versions of Windows spurs good versions of OS X.



    I wish Apple would embrace serious gaming and I wouldn't have to deal with Windows at all. =P



    -Clive
  • Reply 30 of 116
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,268member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post


    ISnow Leopard is a refinement of Leopard with emphasis on performance.



    I personally think Win7 will be a greater improvement over Vista than SLeopard will be over Leopard... (duh?)



    -Clive





    I respectfully disagree and here is why.



    Snow Leopard isn't sexy for a consumer because they need a new UI or app to appreciate the differences. I don't expect some people to get excited about Snow Leopard when they couldn't even see the value of Leopard.



    Snow Leopard represents a new path. While we tend to gloss over GrandCentral it is such an important technology many haven't fully absorbed the impact it will make along with kernel improvements.



    Snow Leopard ushers in a new era in which compute resources are managed effectively and dynamically. GrandCentral is the cop that will smartly leverage the GPU, CPU, and another other compute resource without the developer hand holding the process.



    Windows 7 is nice but has Microsoft expanded on the fundamentals of task and data management at such a low level in the OS? Apple has.



    SL is the starters pistol going off for the next generation of Apple OS. Everything changes from now on.
  • Reply 31 of 116
    I wouldn't mind if Apple let the people who bought Leopard use their software coupon to upgrade to 10.6 for $79.



    I would buy that in a heartbeat for my MacBook. I have been having some pretty bad problems with DMG's not working or software updates getting corrupt and Safari crashing like mad. But here's the kicker.... Leopard on my PM G5 runs like a frickin' marathon psycho. I've reinstalled 10.5 on the PM G5 once, only because I like to do a complete wipe of my graphics system once a year to keep it fresh. I am on my 4th wipe of the MacBook in the same time frame and it doesn't get the hard use that the PM G5 gets.
  • Reply 32 of 116
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post


    Well, I see you have taken my rather mild criticisms of Widows 7 very personally, which is always a mistake.



    To be pedantic, how does my paraphrasing of the difference between the two OS's (even if it's an inaccurate stance as you imply), indicate that I "don't know anything?" How could I even write my name if this was true?



    As for the specific criticism, the poster here that said they thought Windows 7 "might even be faster" is the first I have heard from any user or reviewer that this is the case. The general consensus is that Snow Leopard, like Leopard before it, will be more stable than Windows, faster than Windows, and more secure than Windows although as you say, we don't know for sure at this stage.



    I may have been overly exuberant in my general assessment, but if you intend to remain so incredibly sensitive to any kind of criticism of Windows 7, perhaps here isn't the best place to post your thoughts.



    nope not sensitive to windows 7. Just thought it was funny. I didn't know you worked for apple and have used the out of beta version of leopard and winodws 7. I guess if anyone has any questions we should ask you? I am not defending or offending windows 7 or Leopard. I think both look good. I just think it is funny that a fellow apple employee like yourself is so excited to come in here and post your knowledge, or lack there of, here in this forum for us. Thanks!
  • Reply 33 of 116
    cameronjcameronj Posts: 2,357member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post


    I use (and am very pleased with) XP. In order to play GTA IV, I either had to install XP SP 3 (a trojan, no thanks) or Vista SP 1. I opted for the latter and am underwhelmed.



    -Clive



    What are your qualms about SP3? I've installed it on probably 100 machines now, and almost without failure it improves performance and stability.
  • Reply 34 of 116
    wobegonwobegon Posts: 764member
    Seems like a lot of people here are saying Windows 7 looks promising to them and that it will push Apple to make Snow Leopard even better.



    Well...where's Win7's award winning, iLife-class software suite, bundled apps like iChat, and TimeMachine backup system?



    Microsoft will be selling what Vista should have been at launch. That means it's competing against Leopard, which had hundreds more useful new features and relatively few bugs considering all its new code; it also ran faster on the same hardware.



    Snow Leopard will then more accurately be in a league of its own.
  • Reply 35 of 116
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wobegon View Post


    Seems like a lot of people here are saying Windows 7 looks promising to them and that it will push Apple to make Snow Leopard even better.



    Well...where's Win7's award winning, iLife-class software suite, bundled apps like iChat, and TimeMachine backup system?



    Microsoft will be selling what Vista should have been at launch. That means it's competing against Leopard, which had hundreds more useful new features and relatively few bugs considering all its new code; it also ran faster on the same hardware.



    Snow Leopard will then more accurately be in a league of its own.



    Who cares? I'm sure songsmith with eventually become built in. That's gonna be the best new addition for the future
  • Reply 36 of 116
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by elpasi View Post


    Who cares? I'm sure songsmith with eventually become built in. That's gonna be the best new addition for the future



    Oh yeah baby! I loves me the SongSmith!



    I've tortured my fellow designers here in our art department for the last 2 weeks with the promo videos from M$ for SongSmith.
  • Reply 37 of 116
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Maury Markowitz View Post


    If you're going to use graphics from the Wikipedia, like the Copeland one, you have to attribute it.

    How do I know the Copeland graphic is volunteer work? I made it!

    When someone just rips it off it's galling, especially if it's volunteer work.

    Maury



    I'd like to hear what AppleInsider/Prince McLean has to say here. This is serious if true, and I don't wish to support sites that do not give credit where credit is due.



    Regards.
  • Reply 38 of 116
    virgil-tb2virgil-tb2 Posts: 1,416member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Daniel0418 View Post


    Nope, not sensitive to Windows 7. I just thought it was funny. I didn't know (that) you worked for Apple and (had) used the out of beta version of (Snow) Leopard and Windows 7. I guess if anyone has any questions we should ask you? I am not defending or offending Windows 7 or (Snow) Leopard. I think both look good. I just think it is funny that a fellow Apple employee like yourself is so excited to come in here and post your knowledge, or lack there of, here in this forum for us. Thanks!



    Right. You are not sensitive to these issues and have nothing invested in Windows 7 but you keep posting this stuff that just reeks with smugness and anger. Somehow I have trouble believing you. Since you aren't actually making a point here other than the insults, it's a waste of time for anyone to read, let alone for me to reply to.



    In regards to what we were originally talking about, (do you even care about the original argument anymore or is it just the insults now?), you may think my remarks were overly general or unwarranted but at least they have some support. You have so far given nothing to support your counter-contention that Windows 7 might actually be faster than Snow Leopard, and driven the argument off-track into "funny insult land." Bravo!



    Since I like to restrict myself to only a couple of back and forths when no actual progress is being made in the argument, this will be my last post on the topic.



    PS - I felt compelled to correct the spelling and capitalisation mistakes in your post and had a go at some of your more atrocious grammar, but I haven't changed your word order or meaning.
  • Reply 39 of 116
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by L255J View Post


    I don't know about Snow Leopard...unless they actually include every single little feature they first said would come with Mac OS X.6, I probably won't buy it. However, I am interested to see how Quicktime X will turn out—whether it'll be less than atrocious (like Quicktime 7.5.5) to maybe, hopefully even comparable to VLC.



    VLC cannot be compared with Quicktime, only Quicktime Player.



    You can't build Final Cut or iMovie or the iWork suite on top of VLC.



    All these products use Quicktime.



    Quicktime = Multimedia Framework.
  • Reply 40 of 116
    wobegonwobegon Posts: 764member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by columbus View Post


    VLC cannot be compared with Quicktime, only Quicktime Player.



    You can't build Final Cut or iMovie or the iWork suite on top of VLC.



    All these products use Quicktime.



    Quicktime = Multimedia Framework.



    Well said. QuickTime, as I've heard it described, is like an operating system for video.
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