Are you kidding? Windows Explorer is my least favorite feature about Windows. It seems a little better in Windows 7, but not much. I guess, like everything, it is a matter of opinion.
I almost dare not to dream, but maybe 2009 will be the year when mind-blowing features like cut and paste will find be introduced to the Finder.
This Win7 dock-ish feature actually looks to be an improvement over the previous taskbar. I will probably end up pirating Win7 Ultimate, unless somebody near me actually shells out $$$ for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erunno
I almost dare not to dream, but maybe 2009 will be the year when mind-blowing features like cut and paste will find be introduced to the Finder.
I really hope that was sarcasm. That's been in the finder for years.
By the way, the Mac Finder is horrible. That's definitely been the worst thing about switching to Mac, in my opinion. Can we please get something better? Windows Explorer is far better in my view.
I actually agree with you.
Finder has gotten better and I don't actually use finder that often, but WE is better especially if you're moving documents around.
As always, Mac OS X and Windows assert themselves (in that order) as the best GUI operating systems, superior in most ways to Linux and the various Unixes. I run OpenSolaris at home, with a GNOME configuration that looks a lot like Ubuntu's.
There are not one, but two "taskbars" (panels), instead of one.
KDE 4.2 also supports this inefficient use of space.
Still, despite its flaws, I like the Dock, and I'm glad Microsoft is finally using its design principles. I wish GNOME and KDE would do the same.
You can very easily rearrange the Gnome panels. I move everything from the top to the bottom (replacing the system menus with the single integrated start-menu-thing) and get rid of the top panel. It is too Windows like in that layout, but at least multiple desktops keep things manageable in terms of window lists on the taskbar. I also install the "Dust" theme from ubuntu-artwork.org to make it look less like someone threw some mud and used the results as a user interface.
I agree that Windows 7 looks like it has finally got the taskbar right. I think it will need some tweaks of course, but it's leapt forward to be competitive, finally. Flip3D is still a pointless waste of time of course.
Of course it's very Mac inspired, and yeah, it's a Start button connected to a NextStep dock in actuality, but it looks good and seems to work well.
I'm really surprised to hear that so many people prefer the Finder to Windows Explorer. Maybe I'm wrong, but how on earth do you move a file to a deeply nested folder in the Finder? The way I've been doing it is dragging it over the top level folder (usually Documents), wait for that folder to open in the next column while still holding down the mouse button, drag the file over the next folder, wait for that to open, etc. etc. I just hate it. Any enlightenment as to an easier way would be greatly appreciated.
I really liked the folder list on the left in Windows Explorer (I'm talking about the XP version). You can quickly drill down to the folder you want on the left, then drag your file to it. Done.
I'm not claiming to be a Mac genius, as a relatively new user, but then again, if there's some functionality so well hidden that I haven't discovered it in a year, I consider that to be a problem as well.
This Win7 dock-ish feature actually looks to be an improvement over the previous taskbar. I will probably end up pirating Win7 Ultimate, unless somebody near me actually shells out $$$ for it.
I really hope that was sarcasm. That's been in the finder for years.
He's talking about documents. Cutting a document from one folder and pasting it into another.
I'm really surprised to hear that so many people prefer the Finder to Windows Explorer. Maybe I'm wrong, but how on earth do you move a file to a deeply nested folder in the Finder? The way I've been doing it is dragging it over the top level folder (usually Documents), wait for that folder to open in the next column while still holding down the mouse button, drag the file over the next folder, wait for that to open, etc. etc. I just hate it. Any enlightenment as to an easier way would be greatly appreciated.
I really liked the folder list on the left in Windows Explorer (I'm talking about the XP version). You can quickly drill down to the folder you want on the left, the drag your file to it. Done.
I'm not claiming to be a Mac genius, as a relatively new user, but then again, if there's some functionality so well hidden that I haven't discovered it in a year, I consider that to be a problem as well.
I'll have to try doing it that way. As I understand it, there's no real "cut" and paste for files, so you'd have to copy and paste, and then delete the original. Seems kind of inelegant, but probably better than what I've been doing.
What? Okay so we agree that Finder is horrible. It's being horrible since the beginning of time. And we can only hope Apple fix it in the Snow Leopard.
But layout and functionality wise, it's waaaayyyy better the Windows Explorer. As a matter of fact, I find WE more and more annoying from 2000 to XP then to Vista, it gets slower increamentally, definately more crush prone, crazy shotcuts & most visited everywhere. I was so frustrated by Vista's Windows Explorer, finally decided to start to use the vastly visually unpleasing Total Commander instead. It took a while to get use to, but 2 days later I never intentionally opened a WE window ever since.
What exactly are we looking at for the finder for change? I think the modifications for my needs would be simple. Give me a two pane view and perhaps a shelf of some sort for easy cut n paste.
I certainly think there are better tools for "finding" files.
I switched to Mac about a year ago and don't want to switch back, but I have to agree that the Win7 taskbar looks better than the Mac OS X dock. I don't like how the OS X dock minimizes each window to its own icon. ...
Minimising windows on OS-X is really just a bit of a dodge or sop to Windows users that was added almost as an afterthought IMO. It kind of violates the UI guidelines actually and would be better off just being removed.
The way I remember the rationale at the time was that users were too stupid to "hide" their windows and applications (a much more elegant and useful solution), and seemed to fail to discover that they could even do that, so the minimisation thing was copied from windows.
Because Apple doesn't use the flawed MDI approach, minimisation on a Mac means document by document and window by window, so the task bar quickly get's cluttered up with windows if you use it a lot. Minimisation also kind of violates the logic of the dock in that the dock doesn't deal with documents, only applications and prior to Leopard, minimisation was the only exception to that AFAIK.
IMO they would have been wiser to stick to the guideline, leave the dock strictly for finding/launching applications and get rid of window minimisation altogether. This would have the side effect of eliminating the need for the "traffic lights" and leave window management to the application instead of the OS. Simple.
You do know about the Expose application key right - it only shows the windows for the current application.
To each, their own I guess. I can't stand that Windows lists all the folders first, and then the files. Their hierachical view is very cumbersome too.
Interesting, I didn't know that about Expose. What is that key? I know on my Macbook the Expose key is F3.
I also would like to ad my voice to prefer Windows Explorer to Finder. You are either looking for a Folder or a File, not both at the same time. I hate that if in Documents if I have a folder called Resumes that I have to scroll down to the R files to find it. It just makes sense that if you want to go deeper, those options should be grouped together. If I want a File I will scroll past the folders and find it.
OS X offers many ways to organize and view. I notice most people just aren't familiar with the features or are just flat out against using them as if to say, "I don't want your kind of help."
I think it's the learning curve, actually. As a recent switcher (1 year ago) I can honestly say that I just started using Spaces & Expose' within the past month or so. I just didn't see the big deal. Of course, I was still knee deep in "unlearning" bad habits gained from 15 years of Windows. Just an aside... I'm no programmer, but I have built a number of PCs from scratch, and I have a home network that most small-to-medium business owners would KILL for, so I'm not lost in front of a computer. On the Mac, "simple" things became frustrating. "Okay, I made a burn folder and put stuff in it... now how do I BURN it??" Menus, right clicks, etc etc. Took about 5 minutes to notice the subtle elegance of a "Burn" button RIGHT IN THE BURN FOLDER! Insanity. Who does that?!
I'm digressing a little, but the point is that even 1 year in (and cover to cover with David Pogue's Mac OS X: The Missing Manual) I am just barely starting to leave my newb-ness behind, as far as using a Mac as a Mac, and not as a bass ackwards Windows machine.
Interesting, I didn't know that about Expose. What is that key? I know on my Macbook the Expose key is F3.
I also would like to ad my voice to prefer Windows Explorer to Finder. You are either looking for a Folder or a File, not both at the same time. I hate that if in Documents if I have a folder called Resumes that I have to scroll down to the R files to find it. It just makes sense that if you want to go deeper, those options should be grouped together. If I want a File I will scroll past the folders and find it.
Kylie, right click in the finder window, and "Arrange By>Kind" That should do the trick for you, putting folders first, and files below them.
Must be early responders so far as most mac users, especially those who are POST INTEL and Post PPC, are those that demand faster products, know about overclocking, registry edit, are more likely to build a hack and use BBEdit to edit the .plist and .kext files, et-cetera, and most will know Apple
Then of course there is the truth that FINDER was created by Windows and they never got it out for XP, it
was then released first by Apple, then Microsoft finally got it with it's current VISTA release.
Of course, if you want to see 3d and glass effects and things like spaces, expose, look at Sun Micro systems "looking glass project" This BLOWS away any OS and is almost 10 years old.....click BELOW, select "WATCH PRESENTATION" and go in about 1:53 minutes.
PS. LOOKING GLASS was/is LEAPS and BOUNDS ahead of OS X - (at the time, many ideas from Sun made it to Leopard),
so ask yourself WHO copied who.
HECK, the DOCK on LOOKING GLASS is a DIRECT COPY from APPLE TO OS X Leopard .
Go in 5:10 to see how Apple got the idea of QUICK LOOK - (No wonder my cousin who wrote 3 books so far for Java doesn't partically like Apple -
I just re-watched the video - and when I first watched it YEARS ago, Apple had not come out with the QUICK LOOK - hmmmmm, interesting.
Project
LOOKING GLASS - go in about 1:53 minutes and you will see how Apple LEOPARD copied Sun - years ago.
I find it hillarious how Mac Zealots say MSFT copied Apple when it simply isn't true, plus anything that MSFT has vs Apple you can add another zero, example, Jobs woth (e.g.) 3 billion, Gates 30 billion, market share Apple 9%, MSFT 90%.
Personally, I think the more similar they are the better - as I use both and would rather have command C copy on both, or have interchangeable widgets. Also, in theory, since Apple machines (Asus motherboards), and Intel CPU's, Micron memory, run Microsoft OS, if I were Microsoft I would challenge Apple and create machines that could RUN OS X and make them go to court. Basically all the parts are NON APPLE with the exception of EFI vs BIOS but since BIOS is somehow emulated on the MAC to run WINDOWS, as Microsoft, I would make the argument that it's only fair to emulate EFI, all Microsoft would have to do (besides purchase Apple, which they could, even though they would end up in court), is purchase the patent to the Bios.
I also think that Microsoft could purchase Red Hat, or Ubutu (Linux) and release an 2nd OS and you would see developers jump all over it - for arguments sake, I'll say it again, I would much rather have two OS's close rather than a departure as it makes things easier to do. However, when one looks at Looking glass, just one point of view from 2003, it's easy to see that Apple copied Sun for many of their ideas, yet Fan boyz think its Apples idea.
...how on earth do you move a file to a deeply nested folder in the Finder? The way I've been doing it is dragging it over the top level folder (usually Documents), wait for that folder to open in the next column while still holding down the mouse button, drag the file over the next folder, wait for that to open, etc. etc.... Any enlightenment as to an easier way would be greatly appreciated.
Open the folder you want and just put your stuff in. If you want to use that folder a lot then create an alias of that folder and put it somewhere convenient and drag and drop.
Or: Drag the folder's icon to the left bit - forgot what it's called - of any open folder window and it will appear there in all open folder windows and you can drag and drop from anywhere or any folder onto it.
Or: Drag the folder's icon to the dock and do the same.
When you're done just drag them back out and they're gone. Keeps your workspace tidy.
If you really love burrowing down into folders speed it up by hitting the spacebar to open a folder immediately or change the timing of springing open in the system prefs.
What exactly are we looking at for the finder for change? I think the modifications for my needs would be simple. Give me a two pane view and perhaps a shelf of some sort for easy cut n paste.
I certainly think there are better tools for "finding" files.
Yeah I meant to expand on that in an earlier post, but once you get used to spotlight you'll find that you just don't open finder all that often.
By the way, the Mac Finder is horrible. That's definitely been the worst thing about switching to Mac, in my opinion. Can we please get something better? Windows Explorer is far better in my view.
There's still the 3rd party application Path Finder [1] which only costs a modest amount relative to the amount of features it provides. And it also features cut and paste, so it can't be rocket science if a company consisting of one developer can do something which Apple failed now for years. The Windows Explorer is actually developing nicely and borrows the best features from other file managers. I have to give it to the Linux community though: File managers like Dolphin 4 beat pretty all rivals on other platforms.
Adding to my former statement, I wish Apple would copy Windows Explorer's least destructive paste of folders if the folder in question already exists.
Comments
Are you kidding? Windows Explorer is my least favorite feature about Windows. It seems a little better in Windows 7, but not much. I guess, like everything, it is a matter of opinion.
I almost dare not to dream, but maybe 2009 will be the year when mind-blowing features like cut and paste will find be introduced to the Finder.
I almost dare not to dream, but maybe 2009 will be the year when mind-blowing features like cut and paste will find be introduced to the Finder.
I really hope that was sarcasm.
By the way, the Mac Finder is horrible. That's definitely been the worst thing about switching to Mac, in my opinion. Can we please get something better? Windows Explorer is far better in my view.
I actually agree with you.
Finder has gotten better and I don't actually use finder that often, but WE is better especially if you're moving documents around.
As always, Mac OS X and Windows assert themselves (in that order) as the best GUI operating systems, superior in most ways to Linux and the various Unixes. I run OpenSolaris at home, with a GNOME configuration that looks a lot like Ubuntu's.
There are not one, but two "taskbars" (panels), instead of one.
Here's a screenshot:
http://blogs.sun.com/amitsaha/resour...box/shot-2.png
It's a terribly inefficient use of space.
KDE 4.2 also supports this inefficient use of space.
Still, despite its flaws, I like the Dock, and I'm glad Microsoft is finally using its design principles. I wish GNOME and KDE would do the same.
You can very easily rearrange the Gnome panels. I move everything from the top to the bottom (replacing the system menus with the single integrated start-menu-thing) and get rid of the top panel. It is too Windows like in that layout, but at least multiple desktops keep things manageable in terms of window lists on the taskbar. I also install the "Dust" theme from ubuntu-artwork.org to make it look less like someone threw some mud and used the results as a user interface.
I agree that Windows 7 looks like it has finally got the taskbar right. I think it will need some tweaks of course, but it's leapt forward to be competitive, finally. Flip3D is still a pointless waste of time of course.
Of course it's very Mac inspired, and yeah, it's a Start button connected to a NextStep dock in actuality, but it looks good and seems to work well.
I really liked the folder list on the left in Windows Explorer (I'm talking about the XP version). You can quickly drill down to the folder you want on the left, then drag your file to it. Done.
I'm not claiming to be a Mac genius, as a relatively new user, but then again, if there's some functionality so well hidden that I haven't discovered it in a year, I consider that to be a problem as well.
This Win7 dock-ish feature actually looks to be an improvement over the previous taskbar. I will probably end up pirating Win7 Ultimate, unless somebody near me actually shells out $$$ for it.
I really hope that was sarcasm.
He's talking about documents. Cutting a document from one folder and pasting it into another.
I'm really surprised to hear that so many people prefer the Finder to Windows Explorer. Maybe I'm wrong, but how on earth do you move a file to a deeply nested folder in the Finder? The way I've been doing it is dragging it over the top level folder (usually Documents), wait for that folder to open in the next column while still holding down the mouse button, drag the file over the next folder, wait for that to open, etc. etc. I just hate it. Any enlightenment as to an easier way would be greatly appreciated.
I really liked the folder list on the left in Windows Explorer (I'm talking about the XP version). You can quickly drill down to the folder you want on the left, the drag your file to it. Done.
I'm not claiming to be a Mac genius, as a relatively new user, but then again, if there's some functionality so well hidden that I haven't discovered it in a year, I consider that to be a problem as well.
Try cut (copy) and paste.
Still not as graceful as WE.
Try cut (copy) and paste.
I'll have to try doing it that way. As I understand it, there's no real "cut" and paste for files, so you'd have to copy and paste, and then delete the original. Seems kind of inelegant, but probably better than what I've been doing.
What? Okay so we agree that Finder is horrible. It's being horrible since the beginning of time. And we can only hope Apple fix it in the Snow Leopard.
But layout and functionality wise, it's waaaayyyy better the Windows Explorer. As a matter of fact, I find WE more and more annoying from 2000 to XP then to Vista, it gets slower increamentally, definately more crush prone, crazy shotcuts & most visited everywhere. I was so frustrated by Vista's Windows Explorer, finally decided to start to use the vastly visually unpleasing Total Commander instead. It took a while to get use to, but 2 days later I never intentionally opened a WE window ever since.
What exactly are we looking at for the finder for change? I think the modifications for my needs would be simple. Give me a two pane view and perhaps a shelf of some sort for easy cut n paste.
I certainly think there are better tools for "finding" files.
I switched to Mac about a year ago and don't want to switch back, but I have to agree that the Win7 taskbar looks better than the Mac OS X dock. I don't like how the OS X dock minimizes each window to its own icon. ...
Minimising windows on OS-X is really just a bit of a dodge or sop to Windows users that was added almost as an afterthought IMO. It kind of violates the UI guidelines actually and would be better off just being removed.
The way I remember the rationale at the time was that users were too stupid to "hide" their windows and applications (a much more elegant and useful solution), and seemed to fail to discover that they could even do that, so the minimisation thing was copied from windows.
Because Apple doesn't use the flawed MDI approach, minimisation on a Mac means document by document and window by window, so the task bar quickly get's cluttered up with windows if you use it a lot. Minimisation also kind of violates the logic of the dock in that the dock doesn't deal with documents, only applications and prior to Leopard, minimisation was the only exception to that AFAIK.
IMO they would have been wiser to stick to the guideline, leave the dock strictly for finding/launching applications and get rid of window minimisation altogether. This would have the side effect of eliminating the need for the "traffic lights" and leave window management to the application instead of the OS. Simple.
You do know about the Expose application key right - it only shows the windows for the current application.
To each, their own I guess. I can't stand that Windows lists all the folders first, and then the files. Their hierachical view is very cumbersome too.
Interesting, I didn't know that about Expose. What is that key? I know on my Macbook the Expose key is F3.
I also would like to ad my voice to prefer Windows Explorer to Finder. You are either looking for a Folder or a File, not both at the same time. I hate that if in Documents if I have a folder called Resumes that I have to scroll down to the R files to find it. It just makes sense that if you want to go deeper, those options should be grouped together. If I want a File I will scroll past the folders and find it.
50+ windows!?
OS X offers many ways to organize and view. I notice most people just aren't familiar with the features or are just flat out against using them as if to say, "I don't want your kind of help."
I think it's the learning curve, actually. As a recent switcher (1 year ago) I can honestly say that I just started using Spaces & Expose' within the past month or so. I just didn't see the big deal. Of course, I was still knee deep in "unlearning" bad habits gained from 15 years of Windows. Just an aside... I'm no programmer, but I have built a number of PCs from scratch, and I have a home network that most small-to-medium business owners would KILL for, so I'm not lost in front of a computer. On the Mac, "simple" things became frustrating. "Okay, I made a burn folder and put stuff in it... now how do I BURN it??" Menus, right clicks, etc etc. Took about 5 minutes to notice the subtle elegance of a "Burn" button RIGHT IN THE BURN FOLDER! Insanity. Who does that?!
I'm digressing a little, but the point is that even 1 year in (and cover to cover with David Pogue's Mac OS X: The Missing Manual) I am just barely starting to leave my newb-ness behind, as far as using a Mac as a Mac, and not as a bass ackwards Windows machine.
Interesting, I didn't know that about Expose. What is that key? I know on my Macbook the Expose key is F3.
I also would like to ad my voice to prefer Windows Explorer to Finder. You are either looking for a Folder or a File, not both at the same time. I hate that if in Documents if I have a folder called Resumes that I have to scroll down to the R files to find it. It just makes sense that if you want to go deeper, those options should be grouped together. If I want a File I will scroll past the folders and find it.
Kylie, right click in the finder window, and "Arrange By>Kind" That should do the trick for you, putting folders first, and files below them.
DID NOT INVENT FINDER, DOCK and more...
Google YZ Dock or Konfabulator
Then look here: for articles about Widgets.
http://wincustomize.com/articles.aspx?aid=318845&c=1
Then of course there is the truth that FINDER was created by Windows and they never got it out for XP, it
was then released first by Apple, then Microsoft finally got it with it's current VISTA release.
Of course, if you want to see 3d and glass effects and things like spaces, expose, look at Sun Micro systems "looking glass project" This BLOWS away any OS and is almost 10 years old.....click BELOW, select "WATCH PRESENTATION" and go in about 1:53 minutes.
PS. LOOKING GLASS was/is LEAPS and BOUNDS ahead of OS X - (at the time, many ideas from Sun made it to Leopard),
so ask yourself WHO copied who.
HECK, the DOCK on LOOKING GLASS is a DIRECT COPY from APPLE TO OS X Leopard .
Go in 5:10 to see how Apple got the idea of QUICK LOOK - (No wonder my cousin who wrote 3 books so far for Java doesn't partically like Apple -
I just re-watched the video - and when I first watched it YEARS ago, Apple had not come out with the QUICK LOOK - hmmmmm, interesting.
Project
LOOKING GLASS - go in about 1:53 minutes and you will see how Apple LEOPARD copied Sun - years ago.
http://www.sun.com/software/looking_glass/
I find it hillarious how Mac Zealots say MSFT copied Apple when it simply isn't true, plus anything that MSFT has vs Apple you can add another zero, example, Jobs woth (e.g.) 3 billion, Gates 30 billion, market share Apple 9%, MSFT 90%.
Personally, I think the more similar they are the better - as I use both and would rather have command C copy on both, or have interchangeable widgets. Also, in theory, since Apple machines (Asus motherboards), and Intel CPU's, Micron memory, run Microsoft OS, if I were Microsoft I would challenge Apple and create machines that could RUN OS X and make them go to court. Basically all the parts are NON APPLE with the exception of EFI vs BIOS but since BIOS is somehow emulated on the MAC to run WINDOWS, as Microsoft, I would make the argument that it's only fair to emulate EFI, all Microsoft would have to do (besides purchase Apple, which they could, even though they would end up in court), is purchase the patent to the Bios.
I also think that Microsoft could purchase Red Hat, or Ubutu (Linux) and release an 2nd OS and you would see developers jump all over it - for arguments sake, I'll say it again, I would much rather have two OS's close rather than a departure as it makes things easier to do. However, when one looks at Looking glass, just one point of view from 2003, it's easy to see that Apple copied Sun for many of their ideas, yet Fan boyz think its Apples idea.
Peace
...how on earth do you move a file to a deeply nested folder in the Finder? The way I've been doing it is dragging it over the top level folder (usually Documents), wait for that folder to open in the next column while still holding down the mouse button, drag the file over the next folder, wait for that to open, etc. etc.... Any enlightenment as to an easier way would be greatly appreciated.
Open the folder you want and just put your stuff in. If you want to use that folder a lot then create an alias of that folder and put it somewhere convenient and drag and drop.
Or: Drag the folder's icon to the left bit - forgot what it's called - of any open folder window and it will appear there in all open folder windows and you can drag and drop from anywhere or any folder onto it.
Or: Drag the folder's icon to the dock and do the same.
When you're done just drag them back out and they're gone. Keeps your workspace tidy.
If you really love burrowing down into folders speed it up by hitting the spacebar to open a folder immediately or change the timing of springing open in the system prefs.
Must be early responders so far as most mac users, ..
Why do you troll here so much? Most of this is unintelligible (and wrong) anyway.
What exactly are we looking at for the finder for change? I think the modifications for my needs would be simple. Give me a two pane view and perhaps a shelf of some sort for easy cut n paste.
I certainly think there are better tools for "finding" files.
Yeah I meant to expand on that in an earlier post, but once you get used to spotlight you'll find that you just don't open finder all that often.
At least I don't.
Yeah I meant to expand on that in an earlier post, but once you get used to spotlight you'll find that you just don't open finder all that often.
At least I don't.
True.
Why do you troll here so much? Most of this is unintelligible (and wrong) anyway.
Wow. You actually read his post!?
By the way, the Mac Finder is horrible. That's definitely been the worst thing about switching to Mac, in my opinion. Can we please get something better? Windows Explorer is far better in my view.
There's still the 3rd party application Path Finder [1] which only costs a modest amount relative to the amount of features it provides. And it also features cut and paste, so it can't be rocket science if a company consisting of one developer can do something which Apple failed now for years. The Windows Explorer is actually developing nicely and borrows the best features from other file managers. I have to give it to the Linux community though: File managers like Dolphin 4 beat pretty all rivals on other platforms.
Adding to my former statement, I wish Apple would copy Windows Explorer's least destructive paste of folders if the folder in question already exists.
[1] http://www.cocoatech.com/