PS. The reason I post some of my opinions is it drives me nuts to see so many people walking blind.
Example, I posted that Apple Stores, BOH had virus protect software and took some screen shots to prove it and know one believed me until they saw the images. Months later a story comes out about Virus and the mac.
I post that Jobs is ill (reason for the bow out at MWorld 09 and then go on to say we'll see new iMacs before June and that this was planned and executed right before Mac World), now they are in the works and the SEC is investigating Jobs.
If people stopped making phony claims such as MSFT stole (insert hear) or that Apple could do no WRONG (remove Fire wire from Macbook and think it was a design issue), I mean really people, I probably wouldn't spend so much time posting this stuff and would be talking more about future hardware, software, wants and needs, fixes for Logic, FCP, et-cetera.
I don't mean to offend though.
For any PAST transgressions, I apologize. I love Apple and their products, I really do, I just wish they would hurry and give us all the products we need e.g., I've been asking for an Apple TV that has DVR for years, now they are doing it. Nonetheless, I really do apologize for going off on tangents and spewing things that have offended anyone. Again, my apologies.
[QUOTE=MacOldTimer;1373489]And you are as biased for Apple as he is for Microsoft so please don't pull the same BS.
And for a guy that made his money stealing it from so many companies and people he sure is a generous man that has saved millions of lives using billions of his own dollars.
You're right Gates is an ass.[/QUOTE)
I am nowhere near as biased as he is, I simply can't stand you and your adoration for what amounts to the single biggest purveyor of crap on the earth: Dell. You claim mounds of bogus crap about Apple while treating Dell like some kind of g-d like creature, when the reality is that even most PC buyers hate the company (which is why it's tanking so hard right now). And please save your Bill Gates is a charitable man crap. His money was made on the backs of others fair and simple. It doesn't matter what he does with it after that point. You act like a crime lord who donates to his local church is somehow an okay guy under that logic.
Besides, most of what he does in the U.S. especially is give away Windows computers to schools contingent on their agreement to pay for various Microsoft services (such as servers). Again, donating to charity doesn't forgive a life of ethical violations and using your charity for company evangelism is in and of itself an ethical violation.
And why do you comment here anymore anyway? You hate Apple and seem to derive nothing but annoyance from your convos here.
I don't like how the OS X dock minimizes each window to its own icon. I really like how you can mouse over a taskbar icon in Win7 and see all the open windows for that application, while also making the other applications transparent. Assuming it runs smoothly and quickly, that seems a lot more functional than Expose. Expose organizes the windows on the screen in haphazard fashion, and the window thumbnails are too similar for me to be able to quickly jump to what I want. Win7, on the other hand, ties the window thumbnails to the application icon, so you always know exactly what you're looking at. Very smart, I hope 10.6 adopts some of these ideas.
By the way, the Mac Finder is horrible. That's definitely been the worst thing about switching to Mac, in my opinion. Can we please get something better? Windows Explorer is far better in my view.
Sounds to me like you are still a victim of Windows work flow habits. That's all it is. Why would you need to minimize any window in a Mac? This is a habit from Windows. You close a window in Windows and the App quits. You then find yourself waiting for the app to re-start again when you open a another file for that app. Not so on the Mac. Remember that. When you are done with a window, close it. Make it a habit and Expose will start working perfectly when you need to use it.
As far as the Mac Finder being worst then Windows Explorer. Here again, it just a training pattern you have from using Windows. The Mac finder is way more customizable and much more efficient than Windows Explorer.
Retrain yourself to use the work flow of the Mac and you will find yourself shaking your head at Windows even more.
Please go elsewhere with your vile, no one here is claiming Apple came up with everything it does. The difference is that Apple typically either buys the company doing what it wants to integrate or it licenses the technology. Microsoft on the other hand copies the idea outright just enough to not legally violate copyright/patent laws and acts as if it invented the idea. Steve Jobs has mentioned many companies during keynotes that he derived ideas from (even Microsoft once). The entire conversation here is about how ridiculous it is that Microsoft claimed for years that a dock was an inefficient and unworkable solution and now it's adopting it in full.
Unchecked and uncritiqued fandom (or should we call it blind faith religion?) seems to be at play here. Why would you claim that stating a fact and proving it is "vile"? Is it because it doesn't fit the official AppleInsider dogmas?
I believe he merely stated, that Apple stole many of the ideas for OS X UI from looking glass after many cheerful shouts about how Microsoft steals everything from Apple. Even Coverflow for iPods comes from there. Did Apple pay for it or did they just "borrow" the ideas?
I believe his post was not vile (at least the reference to Looking Glass). Merely a good point and wakeup to those who (rightly so) blame Microsoft for lack of innovation and a tendency to copy and repackage but at the same time claim (incorrectly so) that Apple only innovates and if it doesn't, it buys the rights (did they do so for Looking Glass, Xerox Palo Alto etc.?).
Even the last announcement about Apple creating a new battery technology with the new Macbooks went down without so much as a cough here. Li-Poly batteries have been used in mobile phones for ages and is not an Apple innovation.
All I'm hoping to find here is insights to technology (and Apple is bringing new stuff or new applications of stuff), but the unchecked fandom and hatered of everything against the dogmas of this site is really limiting the possibilities of discussion and sharing of ideas. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogma. Fandom is fine, but badmouthing people for stating and proving fact in my opinion IS vile.
By the way, the Mac Finder is horrible. That's definitely been the worst thing about switching to Mac, in my opinion. Can we please get something better? Windows Explorer is far better in my view.
Windows Explorer is overly complex, inconsistent and downright hideous. Pure Microsoft!
I think dealing with the Finder is just a matter of switching mindsets.
For Instance: Try activating the Path Bar (in the View menu). And adding the Path button to the ToolBar. These things really help knowing where the hell you are in the folder hierarchy! I find very few people activate them, or even know of their existence!
I think that Apple itself, in their striving to keep the interface as simple as possible has done absolutely NOTHING to let users know about extremely useful and powerful features that are hidden. I see their reasoning, Keep It SImple, but find that they've gone too far and need a way for users looking to work more efficiently an easy intro into what Apple seems to consider "advanced" features. There are only so many things that one is likely to stumble across!
I use file and folder labeling quite a bit. I WISH that the labeling were somehow reflected in open Finder windows, like tinting the Title Bar then label color or something. OS 9 colorized the Title Bar icon, I believe.
I believe he merely stated, that Apple stole many of the ideas for OS X UI from looking glass after many cheerful shouts about how Microsoft steals everything from Apple. Even Coverflow for iPods comes from there. Did Apple pay for it or did they just "borrow" the ideas?
Yes Apple bought it. No, not from Sun. Read the Wiki entry, it's all there.
And yes, this paticular implement is patented.
Claiming that Apple “stole” the idea from Sun without checking out your fact makes you fall into the exact group of people you just dissed, only in an anti-apple manner.
As always, Mac OS X and Windows assert themselves (in that order) as the best GUI operating systems, superior in most ways to Linux and the various Unixes. I run OpenSolaris at home, with a GNOME configuration that looks a lot like Ubuntu's.
There are not one, but two "taskbars" (panels), instead of one.
KDE 4.2 also supports this inefficient use of space.
The Dock (which Microsoft has used for inspiration for its new taskbar), for some of its flaws, combines the following functionality:
A) Application launcher.
Application switcher.
C) Application-specific notifier (ex, Firefox is trying to install an update, so it bounces up and down).
Microsoft hasn't implemented the Mac-style menu bar at the top, and have chosen instead to hide the window-specific menu bar whenever it can.
Still, despite its flaws, I like the Dock, and I'm glad Microsoft is finally using its design principles. I wish GNOME and KDE would do the same.
I would like to point out that the taskbars are totally reconfigurable. You can get rid of one if you like. You can reorganize where anything is. You can get rid of both taskbars completely and use a Dock (which can look like OS X or W7, or something else altogether). There are many more possibilities out there for you in Linux in terms of a simple taskbar/dock than there are with Windows or Mac.
Although, like Windows, there is still no Window Specific Menu bar. I'm curious if anyone has worked or is working on that feature? (Though for me, that was often confusing when I had multiple windows open, but everyone works differently)
"Having said that, some features, such as the Dock?s zooming magnification effect, are far more fun than they are useful, resulting in many users turning it off after the novelty subsides."
Sorry, but this statement is patently false. The reason for the zoom in the Dock is 2-fold. The primary reason is ergonomic. The human hand does not travel horizontally in a straight line, rather, it arcs. The Dock magnification mimics this and is more ergonomically correct. The second reason - the minor one, actually - is that the Dock "comes to you" as you approach it, thus minimizing cursor travel.
Unchecked and uncritiqued fandom (or should we call it blind faith religion?) seems to be at play here. Why would you claim that stating a fact and proving it is "vile"? Is it because it doesn't fit the official AppleInsider dogmas?
I believe he merely stated, that Apple stole many of the ideas for OS X UI from looking glass after many cheerful shouts about how Microsoft steals everything from Apple. Even Coverflow for iPods comes from there. Did Apple pay for it or did they just "borrow" the ideas?
I believe his post was not vile (at least the reference to Looking Glass). Merely a good point and wakeup to those who (rightly so) blame Microsoft for lack of innovation and a tendency to copy and repackage but at the same time claim (incorrectly so) that Apple only innovates and if it doesn't, it buys the rights (did they do so for Looking Glass, Xerox Palo Alto etc.?).
Even the last announcement about Apple creating a new battery technology with the new Macbooks went down without so much as a cough here. Li-Poly batteries have been used in mobile phones for ages and is not an Apple innovation.
All I'm hoping to find here is insights to technology (and Apple is bringing new stuff or new applications of stuff), but the unchecked fandom and hatered of everything against the dogmas of this site is really limiting the possibilities of discussion and sharing of ideas. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogma. Fandom is fine, but badmouthing people for stating and proving fact in my opinion IS vile.
Regs, Jarkko
Yes, Apple did license the technology from the Palo Alto. It licensed the right to some of the elements of that GUI because at the time Xerox thought doing that would make it more money than enforcing its rights to keep it to itself. There was also an exchange of stock with Xerox, for that matter. Apple, took took that GUI into entirely different places than Xerox did and a huge number of PARC employees moved to Apple as a result. Given none of us have any idea what the original PARC system looked like, its really hard to say just how much was changed. However, since we have seen the OS Apple released after that and then Windows 1.0 which was released after working with Apple, it's pretty obvious what happened. And he did not prove anything as fact, he offered a link to Sun's site, which does little more than explain what Project Looking Glass is. I Googled more information than that site provided. I might add, though, Sun was also invited to PARC and no agreement was ever made, but look what it came up with.
Cover flow was purchased from Andrew Coulter Enright in 2006, it was not just lifted from Project Looking Glass. And Looking Glass was doing a 3D, not a 2D effect. So, again Apple bought the rights to what it wanted to implement. Might they have seen Looking Glass and wanted to implement something similar to it? Sure, but that doesn't mean they lifted the idea outright as you seem to believe. There are far more similarities to Looking Glass in Linux distros than there are in OS X. And on a side note, given the presentation on Sun's website, is it not comical that Sun itself has adopted very few of Looking Glass's elements?
The reason his comments are vile is because he comes here, by his own admission, to piss people off. And since his facts are nowhere near as thought out as you seem to believe, he, consequently, has offered nothing to the debate. And you aren't doing any better: no one claimed that Apple invented the new battery technology they showed off. All Apple claimed it invented was the processor they use to regulate its output.
I very much stand by my comment: Apple innovates and licenses, Microsoft steals. Plain and simple. Apple uses open source technology, Microsoft has yet to realize that anything other than proprietary technology/formats exist. I don't worship Apple or any other company, the simple fact is that I can see Microsoft for the fraud that it is.
He has made this looking glass claim before, he was told that this was wrong. The basic UI concepts of OS X come from NEXTStep which was released in 1989.
OS X was introduced in 2000, while Sun's Looking Glass was introduced in 2003.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jahonen
I believe he merely stated, that Apple stole many of the ideas for OS X UI from looking glass after many cheerful shouts about how Microsoft steals everything from Apple. Even Coverflow for iPods comes from there. Did Apple pay for it or did they just "borrow" the ideas?
I believe his post was not vile (at least the reference to Looking Glass). Merely a good point and wakeup to those who (rightly so) blame Microsoft for lack of innovation and a tendency to copy and repackage but at the same time claim (incorrectly so) that Apple only innovates and if it doesn't, it buys the rights (did they do so for Looking Glass, Xerox Palo Alto etc.?).
You are not being offensive the ultimate problem is that you use outright wrong information as facts, and make flawed conclusions from wrong information.
The other problem is that it can be difficult to understand you posts. If English isn't your native language this is understandable, but all the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiimamac
PS. The reason I post some of my opinions is it drives me nuts to see so many people walking blind.
For any PAST transgressions, I apologize. I love Apple and their products, I really do, I just wish they would hurry and give us all the products we need e.g., I've been asking for an Apple TV that has DVR for years, now they are doing it. Nonetheless, I really do apologize for going off on tangents and spewing things that have offended anyone. Again, my apologies.
What year did the OS X dock come out? What year did Windows 95 come out? When was quicklaunch and a dock/taskbar added? Why does MAC even have a desktop... resembling that of windows... with a screen saver... and a desktop backround.... hmmmmmmmm hmm hm hmm.. lol some mac users are feeling a little scared about now. All the hype about windows 7 is causing panic... puting out articles for an attempt at a cheap shot lol. Good luck with that. More computers have Vista than OS X and people hate vista... lol People love windows 7 and just wait till its launch when all computers have it... offices switch to it because of how efficient it is and even every net book will have it... uh oh apple fan boys what now?
What year did the OS X dock come out? What year did Windows 95 come out? When was quicklaunch and a dock/taskbar added? Why does MAC even have a desktop... resembling that of windows... with a screen saver... and a desktop backround.... hmmmmmmmm hmm hm hmm.. lol some mac users are feeling a little scared about now. All the hype about windows 7 is causing panic... puting out articles for an attempt at a cheap shot lol. Good luck with that. More computers have Vista than OS X and people hate vista... lol People love windows 7 and just wait till its launch when all computers have it... offices switch to it because of how efficient it is and even every net book will have it... uh oh apple fan boys what now?
Do you have anything intelligent to contribute or do you just enjoy making idiotic forum posts?
The reason his comments are vile is because he comes here, by his own admission, to piss people off. And since his facts are nowhere near as thought out as you seem to believe, he, consequently, has offered nothing to the debate. And you aren't doing any better: no one claimed that Apple invented the new battery technology they showed off. All Apple claimed it invented was the processor they use to regulate its output.
I very much stand by my comment: Apple innovates and licenses, Microsoft steals. Plain and simple. Apple uses open source technology, Microsoft has yet to realize that anything other than proprietary technology/formats exist. I don't worship Apple or any other company, the simple fact is that I can see Microsoft for the fraud that it is.
I stand corrected on the Palo Alto example even though most if the references on the net still do say that there are several controversies still about how much Apple copied form PARC (for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_GUI). However this is the kind of discussion I'm looking for in general. Multiple sides are brought out and dissenting views are not immediately "squashed".
It cannot be assumed that a person has read every single post on the site before one can comment. I reacted to the immediate calling of someone "vile" when they were introducing dissenting views to existing dogmas. My apologies for not reading all of his posts on the site and researching his "tendencies".
But my main point was about allowing viewpoints that do not support the existing dogmas. I do believe my point was already proven a, when I was promptly called an anti-Apple zealot for daring to point this out. Maybe I used the wrong tactics (not a thorough research on the examples), but at least it did prove my main point.
Personally I usually vote for innovation and choice. Thus I prefer to champion linux and Apple for the change in the industry they are forcing to occur. But it's a benefit to all if opposing thoughts are encouraged instead of being immediately extinguished. In this particular case I didn't know the background of the post and poster I defended (should I have?). And yes, I took too much at face value.
I do applaud Apples innovation especially in user interfaces and usability. No question about it.
I was wondering the same thing, but my only guess is that because Apple has done nothing of merit lately, besides a couple SW packages, and a (delayed) 17" laptop, there is nothing to else write about.
As far as the Dock vs. the Win7 taskbar, I don't see any real similarities. The Dock is just a container with icons, but it doesn't do anything like application previews (unless you minimize the app), whereas the Win7 taskbar is like a combination of the Quick Launch bar and the taskbar found in previous versions of Windows, but with a much improved application preview, compared to Vista.
Over on the right of the new ultrabar - That golf flag is immediately recognizable as a... tee time alert, and the... um... monitor with the devil's spear on the left margin means... oh yeah, meeting in Ballmer's office in 30.
You are not being offensive the ultimate problem is that you use outright wrong information as facts, and make flawed conclusions from wrong information.
The other problem is that it can be difficult to understand you posts. If English isn't your native language this is understandable, but all the same.
Thanks. I tend to go off on tangents.
As another pointed out, I was simply pointing out that its ironic that Apple users can point the finger and say that Microsoft "stole" something from Apple but if you look at Project Looking Glass, you can see that ideas such as the 3D task bar and Quick look came from there.
Additionally, I have worked with computers for years and remember when Apple used to spew out BENCHMARKS that were simply NOT true - and its PC counter parts were much faster, especially in the area's of FPU, rendering, soft symths, plug-ins. It wasn't until they switched to Intel that they finally caught up.
Then of course there is the argument that Apple's marketing structure is targeted in such a way that if you need a product, they price their products in such a way that each small increment gives you just a little more (what you need) until suddenly, you're at $1999, purchasing a macbook pro. They still lack a mid range (non iMac) machine. For this, I am glad that OSX 86 exists - as you can build a hack for $600. Use the XEFI and you don't have to edit Kext/plist files.
Most of the arguments though are becoming moot anyway - - as Apple is moving toward a "Best Buy" mentality, especially if they release televisions that are all in one computer/DVR devices.
Comments
Example, I posted that Apple Stores, BOH had virus protect software and took some screen shots to prove it and know one believed me until they saw the images. Months later a story comes out about Virus and the mac.
I post that Jobs is ill (reason for the bow out at MWorld 09 and then go on to say we'll see new iMacs before June and that this was planned and executed right before Mac World), now they are in the works and the SEC is investigating Jobs.
If people stopped making phony claims such as MSFT stole (insert hear) or that Apple could do no WRONG (remove Fire wire from Macbook and think it was a design issue), I mean really people, I probably wouldn't spend so much time posting this stuff and would be talking more about future hardware, software, wants and needs, fixes for Logic, FCP, et-cetera.
I don't mean to offend though.
For any PAST transgressions, I apologize. I love Apple and their products, I really do, I just wish they would hurry and give us all the products we need e.g., I've been asking for an Apple TV that has DVR for years, now they are doing it. Nonetheless, I really do apologize for going off on tangents and spewing things that have offended anyone. Again, my apologies.
And for a guy that made his money stealing it from so many companies and people he sure is a generous man that has saved millions of lives using billions of his own dollars.
You're right Gates is an ass.[/QUOTE)
I am nowhere near as biased as he is, I simply can't stand you and your adoration for what amounts to the single biggest purveyor of crap on the earth: Dell. You claim mounds of bogus crap about Apple while treating Dell like some kind of g-d like creature, when the reality is that even most PC buyers hate the company (which is why it's tanking so hard right now). And please save your Bill Gates is a charitable man crap. His money was made on the backs of others fair and simple. It doesn't matter what he does with it after that point. You act like a crime lord who donates to his local church is somehow an okay guy under that logic.
Besides, most of what he does in the U.S. especially is give away Windows computers to schools contingent on their agreement to pay for various Microsoft services (such as servers). Again, donating to charity doesn't forgive a life of ethical violations and using your charity for company evangelism is in and of itself an ethical violation.
And why do you comment here anymore anyway? You hate Apple and seem to derive nothing but annoyance from your convos here.
I don't like how the OS X dock minimizes each window to its own icon. I really like how you can mouse over a taskbar icon in Win7 and see all the open windows for that application, while also making the other applications transparent. Assuming it runs smoothly and quickly, that seems a lot more functional than Expose. Expose organizes the windows on the screen in haphazard fashion, and the window thumbnails are too similar for me to be able to quickly jump to what I want. Win7, on the other hand, ties the window thumbnails to the application icon, so you always know exactly what you're looking at. Very smart, I hope 10.6 adopts some of these ideas.
By the way, the Mac Finder is horrible. That's definitely been the worst thing about switching to Mac, in my opinion. Can we please get something better? Windows Explorer is far better in my view.
Sounds to me like you are still a victim of Windows work flow habits. That's all it is. Why would you need to minimize any window in a Mac? This is a habit from Windows. You close a window in Windows and the App quits. You then find yourself waiting for the app to re-start again when you open a another file for that app. Not so on the Mac. Remember that. When you are done with a window, close it. Make it a habit and Expose will start working perfectly when you need to use it.
As far as the Mac Finder being worst then Windows Explorer. Here again, it just a training pattern you have from using Windows. The Mac finder is way more customizable and much more efficient than Windows Explorer.
Retrain yourself to use the work flow of the Mac and you will find yourself shaking your head at Windows even more.
Please go elsewhere with your vile, no one here is claiming Apple came up with everything it does. The difference is that Apple typically either buys the company doing what it wants to integrate or it licenses the technology. Microsoft on the other hand copies the idea outright just enough to not legally violate copyright/patent laws and acts as if it invented the idea. Steve Jobs has mentioned many companies during keynotes that he derived ideas from (even Microsoft once). The entire conversation here is about how ridiculous it is that Microsoft claimed for years that a dock was an inefficient and unworkable solution and now it's adopting it in full.
Unchecked and uncritiqued fandom (or should we call it blind faith religion?) seems to be at play here. Why would you claim that stating a fact and proving it is "vile"? Is it because it doesn't fit the official AppleInsider dogmas?
I believe he merely stated, that Apple stole many of the ideas for OS X UI from looking glass after many cheerful shouts about how Microsoft steals everything from Apple. Even Coverflow for iPods comes from there. Did Apple pay for it or did they just "borrow" the ideas?
I believe his post was not vile (at least the reference to Looking Glass). Merely a good point and wakeup to those who (rightly so) blame Microsoft for lack of innovation and a tendency to copy and repackage but at the same time claim (incorrectly so) that Apple only innovates and if it doesn't, it buys the rights (did they do so for Looking Glass, Xerox Palo Alto etc.?).
Even the last announcement about Apple creating a new battery technology with the new Macbooks went down without so much as a cough here. Li-Poly batteries have been used in mobile phones for ages and is not an Apple innovation.
All I'm hoping to find here is insights to technology (and Apple is bringing new stuff or new applications of stuff), but the unchecked fandom and hatered of everything against the dogmas of this site is really limiting the possibilities of discussion and sharing of ideas. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogma. Fandom is fine, but badmouthing people for stating and proving fact in my opinion IS vile.
Regs, Jarkko
By the way, the Mac Finder is horrible. That's definitely been the worst thing about switching to Mac, in my opinion. Can we please get something better? Windows Explorer is far better in my view.
Windows Explorer is overly complex, inconsistent and downright hideous. Pure Microsoft!
I think dealing with the Finder is just a matter of switching mindsets.
For Instance: Try activating the Path Bar (in the View menu). And adding the Path button to the ToolBar. These things really help knowing where the hell you are in the folder hierarchy! I find very few people activate them, or even know of their existence!
I think that Apple itself, in their striving to keep the interface as simple as possible has done absolutely NOTHING to let users know about extremely useful and powerful features that are hidden. I see their reasoning, Keep It SImple, but find that they've gone too far and need a way for users looking to work more efficiently an easy intro into what Apple seems to consider "advanced" features. There are only so many things that one is likely to stumble across!
I use file and folder labeling quite a bit. I WISH that the labeling were somehow reflected in open Finder windows, like tinting the Title Bar then label color or something. OS 9 colorized the Title Bar icon, I believe.
Try PathFinder as an alternative to the Finder.
That said, one suggestion caught my attention: open two Finder windows! Duh!
I first did that in 1985 on my Mac 512K!
I believe he merely stated, that Apple stole many of the ideas for OS X UI from looking glass after many cheerful shouts about how Microsoft steals everything from Apple. Even Coverflow for iPods comes from there. Did Apple pay for it or did they just "borrow" the ideas?
Yes Apple bought it. No, not from Sun. Read the Wiki entry, it's all there.
And yes, this paticular implement is patented.
Claiming that Apple “stole” the idea from Sun without checking out your fact makes you fall into the exact group of people you just dissed, only in an anti-apple manner.
As always, Mac OS X and Windows assert themselves (in that order) as the best GUI operating systems, superior in most ways to Linux and the various Unixes. I run OpenSolaris at home, with a GNOME configuration that looks a lot like Ubuntu's.
There are not one, but two "taskbars" (panels), instead of one.
Here's a screenshot:
http://blogs.sun.com/amitsaha/resour...box/shot-2.png
The top panel contains:
1) Launchers for Applications, Places, and System
2) Various quick launchers
3) Notification icons and various applets
4) Date and time
The bottom panel contains:
1) Show desktop
2) Running programs (pre-Windows 7 style)
3) Multiple desktops
4) Trash
It's a terribly inefficient use of space.
KDE 4.2 also supports this inefficient use of space.
The Dock (which Microsoft has used for inspiration for its new taskbar), for some of its flaws, combines the following functionality:
A) Application launcher.
C) Application-specific notifier (ex, Firefox is trying to install an update, so it bounces up and down).
Microsoft hasn't implemented the Mac-style menu bar at the top, and have chosen instead to hide the window-specific menu bar whenever it can.
Still, despite its flaws, I like the Dock, and I'm glad Microsoft is finally using its design principles. I wish GNOME and KDE would do the same.
I would like to point out that the taskbars are totally reconfigurable. You can get rid of one if you like. You can reorganize where anything is. You can get rid of both taskbars completely and use a Dock (which can look like OS X or W7, or something else altogether). There are many more possibilities out there for you in Linux in terms of a simple taskbar/dock than there are with Windows or Mac.
Although, like Windows, there is still no Window Specific Menu bar. I'm curious if anyone has worked or is working on that feature? (Though for me, that was often confusing when I had multiple windows open, but everyone works differently)
Sorry, but this statement is patently false. The reason for the zoom in the Dock is 2-fold. The primary reason is ergonomic. The human hand does not travel horizontally in a straight line, rather, it arcs. The Dock magnification mimics this and is more ergonomically correct. The second reason - the minor one, actually - is that the Dock "comes to you" as you approach it, thus minimizing cursor travel.
Unchecked and uncritiqued fandom (or should we call it blind faith religion?) seems to be at play here. Why would you claim that stating a fact and proving it is "vile"? Is it because it doesn't fit the official AppleInsider dogmas?
I believe he merely stated, that Apple stole many of the ideas for OS X UI from looking glass after many cheerful shouts about how Microsoft steals everything from Apple. Even Coverflow for iPods comes from there. Did Apple pay for it or did they just "borrow" the ideas?
I believe his post was not vile (at least the reference to Looking Glass). Merely a good point and wakeup to those who (rightly so) blame Microsoft for lack of innovation and a tendency to copy and repackage but at the same time claim (incorrectly so) that Apple only innovates and if it doesn't, it buys the rights (did they do so for Looking Glass, Xerox Palo Alto etc.?).
Even the last announcement about Apple creating a new battery technology with the new Macbooks went down without so much as a cough here. Li-Poly batteries have been used in mobile phones for ages and is not an Apple innovation.
All I'm hoping to find here is insights to technology (and Apple is bringing new stuff or new applications of stuff), but the unchecked fandom and hatered of everything against the dogmas of this site is really limiting the possibilities of discussion and sharing of ideas. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogma. Fandom is fine, but badmouthing people for stating and proving fact in my opinion IS vile.
Regs, Jarkko
Yes, Apple did license the technology from the Palo Alto. It licensed the right to some of the elements of that GUI because at the time Xerox thought doing that would make it more money than enforcing its rights to keep it to itself. There was also an exchange of stock with Xerox, for that matter. Apple, took took that GUI into entirely different places than Xerox did and a huge number of PARC employees moved to Apple as a result. Given none of us have any idea what the original PARC system looked like, its really hard to say just how much was changed. However, since we have seen the OS Apple released after that and then Windows 1.0 which was released after working with Apple, it's pretty obvious what happened. And he did not prove anything as fact, he offered a link to Sun's site, which does little more than explain what Project Looking Glass is. I Googled more information than that site provided. I might add, though, Sun was also invited to PARC and no agreement was ever made, but look what it came up with.
Cover flow was purchased from Andrew Coulter Enright in 2006, it was not just lifted from Project Looking Glass. And Looking Glass was doing a 3D, not a 2D effect. So, again Apple bought the rights to what it wanted to implement. Might they have seen Looking Glass and wanted to implement something similar to it? Sure, but that doesn't mean they lifted the idea outright as you seem to believe. There are far more similarities to Looking Glass in Linux distros than there are in OS X. And on a side note, given the presentation on Sun's website, is it not comical that Sun itself has adopted very few of Looking Glass's elements?
The reason his comments are vile is because he comes here, by his own admission, to piss people off. And since his facts are nowhere near as thought out as you seem to believe, he, consequently, has offered nothing to the debate. And you aren't doing any better: no one claimed that Apple invented the new battery technology they showed off. All Apple claimed it invented was the processor they use to regulate its output.
I very much stand by my comment: Apple innovates and licenses, Microsoft steals. Plain and simple. Apple uses open source technology, Microsoft has yet to realize that anything other than proprietary technology/formats exist. I don't worship Apple or any other company, the simple fact is that I can see Microsoft for the fraud that it is.
OS X was introduced in 2000, while Sun's Looking Glass was introduced in 2003.
I believe he merely stated, that Apple stole many of the ideas for OS X UI from looking glass after many cheerful shouts about how Microsoft steals everything from Apple. Even Coverflow for iPods comes from there. Did Apple pay for it or did they just "borrow" the ideas?
I believe his post was not vile (at least the reference to Looking Glass). Merely a good point and wakeup to those who (rightly so) blame Microsoft for lack of innovation and a tendency to copy and repackage but at the same time claim (incorrectly so) that Apple only innovates and if it doesn't, it buys the rights (did they do so for Looking Glass, Xerox Palo Alto etc.?).
The other problem is that it can be difficult to understand you posts. If English isn't your native language this is understandable, but all the same.
PS. The reason I post some of my opinions is it drives me nuts to see so many people walking blind.
For any PAST transgressions, I apologize. I love Apple and their products, I really do, I just wish they would hurry and give us all the products we need e.g., I've been asking for an Apple TV that has DVR for years, now they are doing it. Nonetheless, I really do apologize for going off on tangents and spewing things that have offended anyone. Again, my apologies.
What year did the OS X dock come out? What year did Windows 95 come out? When was quicklaunch and a dock/taskbar added? Why does MAC even have a desktop... resembling that of windows... with a screen saver... and a desktop backround.... hmmmmmmmm hmm hm hmm.. lol some mac users are feeling a little scared about now. All the hype about windows 7 is causing panic... puting out articles for an attempt at a cheap shot lol. Good luck with that. More computers have Vista than OS X and people hate vista... lol People love windows 7 and just wait till its launch when all computers have it... offices switch to it because of how efficient it is and even every net book will have it... uh oh apple fan boys what now?
Do you have anything intelligent to contribute or do you just enjoy making idiotic forum posts?
The reason his comments are vile is because he comes here, by his own admission, to piss people off. And since his facts are nowhere near as thought out as you seem to believe, he, consequently, has offered nothing to the debate. And you aren't doing any better: no one claimed that Apple invented the new battery technology they showed off. All Apple claimed it invented was the processor they use to regulate its output.
I very much stand by my comment: Apple innovates and licenses, Microsoft steals. Plain and simple. Apple uses open source technology, Microsoft has yet to realize that anything other than proprietary technology/formats exist. I don't worship Apple or any other company, the simple fact is that I can see Microsoft for the fraud that it is.
I stand corrected on the Palo Alto example even though most if the references on the net still do say that there are several controversies still about how much Apple copied form PARC (for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_GUI). However this is the kind of discussion I'm looking for in general. Multiple sides are brought out and dissenting views are not immediately "squashed".
It cannot be assumed that a person has read every single post on the site before one can comment. I reacted to the immediate calling of someone "vile" when they were introducing dissenting views to existing dogmas. My apologies for not reading all of his posts on the site and researching his "tendencies".
But my main point was about allowing viewpoints that do not support the existing dogmas. I do believe my point was already proven a, when I was promptly called an anti-Apple zealot for daring to point this out. Maybe I used the wrong tactics (not a thorough research on the examples), but at least it did prove my main point.
Personally I usually vote for innovation and choice. Thus I prefer to champion linux and Apple for the change in the industry they are forcing to occur. But it's a benefit to all if opposing thoughts are encouraged instead of being immediately extinguished. In this particular case I didn't know the background of the post and poster I defended (should I have?). And yes, I took too much at face value.
I do applaud Apples innovation especially in user interfaces and usability. No question about it.
Regs, Jarkko
What's with all the Windows "news" lately?
I was wondering the same thing, but my only guess is that because Apple has done nothing of merit lately, besides a couple SW packages, and a (delayed) 17" laptop, there is nothing to else write about.
As far as the Dock vs. the Win7 taskbar, I don't see any real similarities. The Dock is just a container with icons, but it doesn't do anything like application previews (unless you minimize the app), whereas the Win7 taskbar is like a combination of the Quick Launch bar and the taskbar found in previous versions of Windows, but with a much improved application preview, compared to Vista.
In either case, it's just a slow news day.
You are not being offensive the ultimate problem is that you use outright wrong information as facts, and make flawed conclusions from wrong information.
The other problem is that it can be difficult to understand you posts. If English isn't your native language this is understandable, but all the same.
Thanks. I tend to go off on tangents.
As another pointed out, I was simply pointing out that its ironic that Apple users can point the finger and say that Microsoft "stole" something from Apple but if you look at Project Looking Glass, you can see that ideas such as the 3D task bar and Quick look came from there.
Additionally, I have worked with computers for years and remember when Apple used to spew out BENCHMARKS that were simply NOT true - and its PC counter parts were much faster, especially in the area's of FPU, rendering, soft symths, plug-ins. It wasn't until they switched to Intel that they finally caught up.
Then of course there is the argument that Apple's marketing structure is targeted in such a way that if you need a product, they price their products in such a way that each small increment gives you just a little more (what you need) until suddenly, you're at $1999, purchasing a macbook pro. They still lack a mid range (non iMac) machine. For this, I am glad that OSX 86 exists - as you can build a hack for $600. Use the XEFI and you don't have to edit Kext/plist files.
Most of the arguments though are becoming moot anyway - - as Apple is moving toward a "Best Buy" mentality, especially if they release televisions that are all in one computer/DVR devices.
Peace