I find it ironic that Apple was the first company that took that approach by using one port on your iPod and iPhone to charge it, connect to video and audio out, and punch of other stuff without carrying around punch of cables.
Quote:
Originally Posted by clymans
No, they didn't. They started using a firewire connection. I have an original 10GB iPod that doesn't have a dock connector on it. It was the first model that was marketed as being PC compatible out of the box. I don't know my Apple history that well, but I believe the dock connector was introduced shortly after Apple decided to sell PC compatible iPods because most PCs/laptops at the time didn't have firewire. I bought a SB Live! or some such card with a firewire port on it specifically for this purpose.
Without the move to USB compatible cables, I don't think the iPod would be the massive success it is today. I don't think most consumers would go buy a card just to hook up an iPod like I did.
Just goes to show that sometimes Apple does bend to the market and not the other way around. If they thought firewire was such a bang up idea, they could have made the dock connector go to a firewire port instead of USB.
He said 30-pin connector not USB or Firewire. He is talking about the end that plugin to your iPod not computer.
The only other beef I have is having to have my iPod Touch tethered to iTunes (which, can barely handle the load of music I have.. while every other program I use runs peppy, iTunes crawls at a snails pace). It would be much easier if you could dock, and then just copy music to it like a drive (like most other MP3 players). That, would be simplistic. Not having to use a bloated mandatory software package.
Media Monkey is pretty good at managing my library. I use it and iTunes together to handle my synching needs.
He said 30-pin connector not USB or Firewire. He is talking about the end that plugin to your iPod not computer.
It was firewire on BOTH ends. It came with a cable with standard firewire ports on both ends and an adapter to attach to a mini-firewire port on a computer.
Actually, Apple aren't excluded from the benefits of this, even though they'll never give up the dock connector (for perfectly good reasons).
What nobody's reporting is that the universal charger standard says that the charger has a USB type A plug on it, as well as the handset having a Micro-USB connector, just like the Apple adapter.
So you'll be able to use the Apple charger to charge a Nokia and the Nokia charger to charge an Apple but you'll just need a different cable.
It was firewire on BOTH ends. It came with a cable with standard firewire ports on both ends and an adapter to attach to a mini-firewire port on a computer.
Or Apple or someone else can come up with an adapter.
Wouldn't they have to include it with the purchase of new iPhones? If so, I wonder if Apple wouldn't decide to have a universal port instead, for aesthetic reasons?
European Union is expected to make compatibility with a standard charger mandatory in few years. This makes perfect sense for customers, makers and the environment. This is also notably something a free market could never achieve.
As much as I am an anti-capitalist myself and European as well, and as much as I love it when something points out the severe limitations of the "capitalism cures all" meme ...
The more I think about this I don't think it's a good idea. Specifically in a fast moving industry like computer design, to force everyone to use the same connector when the decision on what connector that is has to be made by a giant slow-moving bureaucracy seems destined for problems. Why should a company have to compromise on good design and make a product bulkier and perhaps even less energy efficient merely to comply with a rule?
Here's hoping that rather than making this mandatory, that it is part of a "strong suggestion" or better yet a small collection of mandatory options instead of merely one choice. For companies like Apple that combine charging and syncing in one port, this is a net loss design wise and actually makes the product less desirable, less efficient etc.
Standardisation is good, and rules are good, but if there is no provision for allowing a variation that actually works better or smarter, then that's a "broken" system.
Wouldn't they have to include it with the purchase of new iPhones? If so, I wonder if Apple wouldn't decide to have a universal port instead, for aesthetic reasons?
The beauty of Apple current dock connector is that it provide more than just charging. I don't know if it will be possible to have universal port that does the same thing. It might be easier and cheaper to give away a $1 adapter for EU buyers than redesign the whole thing with possibly 2 ports and cables for charging and syncing.
The more I think about this I don't think it's a good idea. Specifically in a fast moving industry like computer design, to force everyone to use the same connector when the decision on what connector that is has to be made by a giant slow-moving bureaucracy seems destined for problems. Why should a company have to compromise on good design and make a product bulkier and perhaps even less energy efficient merely to comply with a rule?
GSM was mandated in Europe in a similar way and it proved to be a bold and visionary move. The EU is known for its crazy rules and regulations but it's generally managed to the cellular market very well.
Why? The iPhone's is easily the smallest and most convenient AC charger available in the industry. The body of it is roughly a 1" cube and it's universal 100-240V. If you can't manage to fit one of these in your pocket/purse/briefcase/underwear you're in bigger trouble than any industry standard is going to help with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE
The beauty of Apple current dock connector is that it provide more than just charging. I don't know if it will be possible to have universal port that does the same thing. It might be easier and cheaper to give away a $1 adapter for EU buyers than redesign the whole thing with possibly 2 ports and cables for charging and syncing.
While in all fairness, and while the dock does do several things, it is still an additional cable and sometimes an additional block too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL
GSM was mandated in Europe in a similar way and it proved to be a bold and visionary move. The EU is known for its crazy rules and regulations but it's generally managed to the cellular market very well.
Too bad they weren't crazy enough to test whether it interferes with other equipment, like that distinctive sound I get when around some phones and audio equipment.
It would be much easier if you could dock, and then just copy music to it like a drive (like most other MP3 players).
I agree! Why let software handle the hard work. I want my next iPod/iPhone to have front panel switches and lights so I can manually set the bits in memory.
I know the design wouldn't be as clean, but there's probably the option to have both the micro-usb and the dock connector. If you look at the bottom of the current iPhone, the mic and the speaker could potentially be moved to the same side of the dock connector and have the micro usb on the other side. Or if that'll cause interference, put it elsewhere. The connection is really small, though it'll cost Apple money to implement both.
I, like others, wonder if how many of the things a dock connector can do can also be done by a micro usb. I'll bet it's not many, or at least I doubt it's as simple for third party manufacturers.
GSM was mandated in Europe in a similar way and it proved to be a bold and visionary move. The EU is known for its crazy rules and regulations but it's generally managed to the cellular market very well.
Still, it all depends on the exact implementation.
Personally I *don't* think that the EU makes "crazy" rules. The USA could learn a lot from the EU in my opinion. This particular rule, in this particular industry, I am not so sure of. Cellular infrastructure changes very slowly, mobile computer product design is on a yearly or sub-yearly cycle.
Perhaps by the time they get around to mandating it, inductive charging will be a reality in the iPhone which would make the whole thing a moot point as it's only the connection to the actual device that Apple would be non-compliant on right now and that would be eliminated.
I know the design wouldn't be as clean, but there's probably the option to have both the micro-usb and the dock connector. If you look at the bottom of the current iPhone, the mic and the speaker could potentially be moved to the same side of the dock connector and have the micro usb on the other side. Or if that'll cause interference, put it elsewhere. The connection is really small, though it'll cost Apple money to implement both.
I, like others, wonder if how many of the things a dock connector can do can also be done by a micro usb. I'll bet it's not many, or at least I doubt it's as simple for third party manufacturers.
Still, how dumb is it that in Apple's case they would be forced to make a bulkier, less-efficient device than what they currently have? Mandated standards make sense in most cases, but if there is no provision for a better design than the standard, or if companies that already have a better design have to dumb down the device just to tick off a check box, it seems like the mandate is counter-productive in those cases.
Comments
No, they didn't. They started using a firewire connection. I have an original 10GB iPod that doesn't have a dock connector on it. It was the first model that was marketed as being PC compatible out of the box. I don't know my Apple history that well, but I believe the dock connector was introduced shortly after Apple decided to sell PC compatible iPods because most PCs/laptops at the time didn't have firewire. I bought a SB Live! or some such card with a firewire port on it specifically for this purpose.
Without the move to USB compatible cables, I don't think the iPod would be the massive success it is today. I don't think most consumers would go buy a card just to hook up an iPod like I did.
Just goes to show that sometimes Apple does bend to the market and not the other way around. If they thought firewire was such a bang up idea, they could have made the dock connector go to a firewire port instead of USB.
He said 30-pin connector not USB or Firewire. He is talking about the end that plugin to your iPod not computer.
The only other beef I have is having to have my iPod Touch tethered to iTunes (which, can barely handle the load of music I have.. while every other program I use runs peppy, iTunes crawls at a snails pace). It would be much easier if you could dock, and then just copy music to it like a drive (like most other MP3 players). That, would be simplistic. Not having to use a bloated mandatory software package.
Media Monkey is pretty good at managing my library. I use it and iTunes together to handle my synching needs.
He said 30-pin connector not USB or Firewire. He is talking about the end that plugin to your iPod not computer.
It was firewire on BOTH ends. It came with a cable with standard firewire ports on both ends and an adapter to attach to a mini-firewire port on a computer.
What nobody's reporting is that the universal charger standard says that the charger has a USB type A plug on it, as well as the handset having a Micro-USB connector, just like the Apple adapter.
So you'll be able to use the Apple charger to charge a Nokia and the Nokia charger to charge an Apple but you'll just need a different cable.
So either Apple will conform to the standard or exit the EU cell phone market (though there might be some chance of getting a waiver).
Or Apple or someone else can come up with an adapter.
It was firewire on BOTH ends. It came with a cable with standard firewire ports on both ends and an adapter to attach to a mini-firewire port on a computer.
You're correct. My bad
Or Apple or someone else can come up with an adapter.
Wouldn't they have to include it with the purchase of new iPhones? If so, I wonder if Apple wouldn't decide to have a universal port instead, for aesthetic reasons?
European Union is expected to make compatibility with a standard charger mandatory in few years. This makes perfect sense for customers, makers and the environment. This is also notably something a free market could never achieve.
As much as I am an anti-capitalist myself and European as well, and as much as I love it when something points out the severe limitations of the "capitalism cures all" meme ...
The more I think about this I don't think it's a good idea. Specifically in a fast moving industry like computer design, to force everyone to use the same connector when the decision on what connector that is has to be made by a giant slow-moving bureaucracy seems destined for problems. Why should a company have to compromise on good design and make a product bulkier and perhaps even less energy efficient merely to comply with a rule?
Here's hoping that rather than making this mandatory, that it is part of a "strong suggestion" or better yet a small collection of mandatory options instead of merely one choice. For companies like Apple that combine charging and syncing in one port, this is a net loss design wise and actually makes the product less desirable, less efficient etc.
Standardisation is good, and rules are good, but if there is no provision for allowing a variation that actually works better or smarter, then that's a "broken" system.
Wouldn't they have to include it with the purchase of new iPhones? If so, I wonder if Apple wouldn't decide to have a universal port instead, for aesthetic reasons?
The beauty of Apple current dock connector is that it provide more than just charging. I don't know if it will be possible to have universal port that does the same thing. It might be easier and cheaper to give away a $1 adapter for EU buyers than redesign the whole thing with possibly 2 ports and cables for charging and syncing.
The more I think about this I don't think it's a good idea. Specifically in a fast moving industry like computer design, to force everyone to use the same connector when the decision on what connector that is has to be made by a giant slow-moving bureaucracy seems destined for problems. Why should a company have to compromise on good design and make a product bulkier and perhaps even less energy efficient merely to comply with a rule?
GSM was mandated in Europe in a similar way and it proved to be a bold and visionary move. The EU is known for its crazy rules and regulations but it's generally managed to the cellular market very well.
Why? The iPhone's is easily the smallest and most convenient AC charger available in the industry. The body of it is roughly a 1" cube and it's universal 100-240V. If you can't manage to fit one of these in your pocket/purse/briefcase/underwear you're in bigger trouble than any industry standard is going to help with.
The beauty of Apple current dock connector is that it provide more than just charging. I don't know if it will be possible to have universal port that does the same thing. It might be easier and cheaper to give away a $1 adapter for EU buyers than redesign the whole thing with possibly 2 ports and cables for charging and syncing.
While in all fairness, and while the dock does do several things, it is still an additional cable and sometimes an additional block too.
GSM was mandated in Europe in a similar way and it proved to be a bold and visionary move. The EU is known for its crazy rules and regulations but it's generally managed to the cellular market very well.
Too bad they weren't crazy enough to test whether it interferes with other equipment, like that distinctive sound I get when around some phones and audio equipment.
I don't know why people are defending Apple's use of proprietary, expensive chords and converters.
So how much does a replacement cable cost? About $5-$10! Hardly expensive.
It would be much easier if you could dock, and then just copy music to it like a drive (like most other MP3 players).
I agree! Why let software handle the hard work. I want my next iPod/iPhone to have front panel switches and lights so I can manually set the bits in memory.
I, like others, wonder if how many of the things a dock connector can do can also be done by a micro usb. I'll bet it's not many, or at least I doubt it's as simple for third party manufacturers.
So how much does a replacement cable cost? About $5-$10! Hardly expensive.
If it's a licensed cable, Apple gets $4 per dock connector. I'm skeptical that a cable in your price range is licensed.
GSM was mandated in Europe in a similar way and it proved to be a bold and visionary move. The EU is known for its crazy rules and regulations but it's generally managed to the cellular market very well.
Still, it all depends on the exact implementation.
Personally I *don't* think that the EU makes "crazy" rules. The USA could learn a lot from the EU in my opinion. This particular rule, in this particular industry, I am not so sure of. Cellular infrastructure changes very slowly, mobile computer product design is on a yearly or sub-yearly cycle.
Perhaps by the time they get around to mandating it, inductive charging will be a reality in the iPhone which would make the whole thing a moot point as it's only the connection to the actual device that Apple would be non-compliant on right now and that would be eliminated.
I know the design wouldn't be as clean, but there's probably the option to have both the micro-usb and the dock connector. If you look at the bottom of the current iPhone, the mic and the speaker could potentially be moved to the same side of the dock connector and have the micro usb on the other side. Or if that'll cause interference, put it elsewhere. The connection is really small, though it'll cost Apple money to implement both.
I, like others, wonder if how many of the things a dock connector can do can also be done by a micro usb. I'll bet it's not many, or at least I doubt it's as simple for third party manufacturers.
Still, how dumb is it that in Apple's case they would be forced to make a bulkier, less-efficient device than what they currently have? Mandated standards make sense in most cases, but if there is no provision for a better design than the standard, or if companies that already have a better design have to dumb down the device just to tick off a check box, it seems like the mandate is counter-productive in those cases.
If it's a licensed cable, Apple gets $4 per dock connector. I'm skeptical that a cable in your price range is licensed.
Personally I don't care if it's licensed or not.
http://www.amazon.com/tag/iphone%20c..._tag_ptcn_istp