10.2.2 out in three weeks.

Posted:
in macOS edited January 2014
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 55
    sc_marktsc_markt Posts: 1,393member
    [quote]Originally posted by Addison:

    <strong>Here is the link.



    <a href="http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,634711,00.asp"; target="_blank">http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,634711,00.asp</a></strong><hr></blockquote>;



    Intersting: The article said a jouraling file systems is part of this version.
  • Reply 2 of 55
    frawgzfrawgz Posts: 547member
    And it's what Dominic Giampaolo has been working on all this time.. I wonder what, if anything, that means about OS X and metadata?
  • Reply 3 of 55
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Probably nothing.



    Journaling and metadata aren't tied together, particularly when you have a nice layered file system stack like OS X's Virtual File System.



    Note that this runs *on top of* HFS+. They just created a journaling file filter.



    'Just', I say, tongue firmly in cheek. Kudos to the Fruit Guys.
  • Reply 4 of 55
    applenutapplenut Posts: 5,768member
    the performance hit doesn't sound so cool <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
  • Reply 5 of 55
    mrmistermrmister Posts: 1,095member
    In fact, the performance hit sounds like, "I'll wait until 10.3 or I have a PPC970 to even turn this on."
  • Reply 6 of 55
    henriokhenriok Posts: 537member
    Elvis lives!



    I can confirm that journaling is in the 6F-betas that are seedet to developers.



    Run 'diskutil' and see for yourselves.
  • Reply 7 of 55
    airslufairsluf Posts: 1,861member
  • Reply 8 of 55
    frawgzfrawgz Posts: 547member
    [quote]Originally posted by Kickaha:

    <strong>Probably nothing.



    Journaling and metadata aren't tied together, particularly when you have a nice layered file system stack like OS X's Virtual File System.



    Note that this runs *on top of* HFS+. They just created a journaling file filter.



    'Just', I say, tongue firmly in cheek. Kudos to the Fruit Guys.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Right. My point being that if "just created" is tongue in cheek, then clearly it was a big task, no? Does that preclude the possibility of Dominic having been working on metadata simultaneously, or did that take a backseat to journaling work?
  • Reply 9 of 55
    engpjpengpjp Posts: 124member
    [quote]Originally posted by Kickaha:

    <strong>Probably nothing.



    Journaling and metadata aren't tied together...</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Ever since Rhapsody was promised (as the successor to OS 7.5 then), Apple has been working on adding journaling AND metadata to their filing structure. In Apple's mind, the two have always been tied together - and the reason why Labels hasn't been available in OSX hitherto, as you yourself pointed out.



    Now it's going to be a totally different ballgame, and the virtualization of data structures can finally be released: linking data according to the individual user's associations, doing common-language search, using sound or pictures as tags and search criteria, etc



    Not only will this add enterprise-strength security and stability to OSX, it will give user-intuitivity to the present-day way of computing: finding and experiencing data. Scoring in two very different ballgames with one swat!



    Apple is finally getting ahead of MS, in the area it has lost the most: operating system usability. But why does it come so quickly? why not keep it until the next MAJOR release? Interesting....



    engpjp
  • Reply 10 of 55
    jaredjared Posts: 639member
    [quote]Originally posted by engpjp:

    <strong>



    Apple is finally getting ahead of MS, in the area it has lost the most: operating system usability. But why does it come so quickly? why not keep it until the next MAJOR release? Interesting....



    engpjp</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Well you have to turn it on via CLI, I would guess that it will be easier to turn on in 10.3, not to mention more fine tuned... WWDC 2003 should be good...
  • Reply 11 of 55
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    [quote]Originally posted by applenut:

    <strong>the performance hit doesn't sound so cool <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>



    Funny, I and others, say on /., have read that as a 10-15% performance hit on *disk access*, not on overall system performance. Huge difference.
  • Reply 12 of 55
    My guess is that they are releasing it now in a minor release because they've been shipping Xserves for a while now and people have been pointing to this as a significant missing feature.



    As for the performance hit... 10-15% hit, that's all?! Wow! Stellar acheivement! Kudos to the X-B guy and Apple team who worked the magic.
  • Reply 13 of 55
    kedakeda Posts: 722member
    From this discussion, I get an idea of what a journaled fs is, but could someone explain it to me? Why is it good? How will it help w/ searches?
  • Reply 14 of 55
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    [quote]Originally posted by Keda:

    <strong>From this discussion, I get an idea of what a journaled fs is, but could someone explain it to me? Why is it good?</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Journaled filesystems keep track of what changes are about to be made to files, and what changes *have* been made to files.



    This gets you robustness (less file corruption - in fact, darned near impossible at the filesystem level), speed (no more waiting for fsck to check your entire system at startup if anything went wrong), and in many implementations, a history (roll back changes to a file to a previous version).



    The best explanation I've seen was on Slashdot, which I'll paraphrase here:



    Imagine a library, and each night a librarian goes around with a stack of books and puts them back on the shelves. At the end of this task, she writes down in the log all the books she put back.



    Now, one night, in the middle of this task, she has a heart attack.



    How is the replacement librarian supposed to find all the books that were put back? They'd have to check each and every book in the library against the 'checked in and put back' list, and all those not on the list would be the ones that the dead librarian had done that night.



    Now imagine instead that the first librarian carries a notepad around with her, with a list of the books to be put back that night, and as she puts each one back, she marks it off the list.



    Now, when she keels over, the replacement just has to look at the notepad.



    That's a journaled filesystem. It keeps detailed track of changes to files before and after they occur.



    Filesystem corruption is extremely difficult to have happen, and if it does, it's easy and quick to fix. You can literally pull the power cord in the middle of a large file write with a journaled filesystem, and when the power comes back on, it will continue the write, and you'll be on your way.



    [quote]<strong>How will it help w/ searches?</strong><hr></blockquote>



    It won't. It has NOTHING to do with file metadata, regardless of what some folks are saying.
  • Reply 15 of 55
    kedakeda Posts: 722member
    Thanks, good explanation. Where would we be with out analogies?
  • Reply 16 of 55
    defiantdefiant Posts: 4,876member
    thanks kickaha !
  • Reply 17 of 55
    moogsmoogs Posts: 4,296member
    ThinkSecret has more information on 10.2.2 that was posted today. Basic info on which parts of the OS are being updated, when to expect it, build number, etc.
  • Reply 18 of 55
    engpjpengpjp Posts: 124member
    Again.... while journaling and metadata have no connection technically, they are inextricably linked in Apple's work on extending HFS+.



    I don't have sufficient expertise, however, to judge whether it is a good move for Apple to hang on to the HFS+ format as basis for the future plans (there are those that call HFS+ "antiquated" and "inefficient"), and I have no information as to whether the programmers have managed to structure "Elvis" etc so that they will be able to slide a new FS "underneath" it at a later date...



    engpjp
  • Reply 19 of 55
    outsideroutsider Posts: 6,008member
    What are they going to call it? HFSJ ? HJFS?
  • Reply 20 of 55
    moogsmoogs Posts: 4,296member
    No, no. They'll call it "EFS"



    Elvis Filing System



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