So is it safe to assume you open a new window for every single website in Safari?
Is it really that unusual to not use tabs? Other than OmniWeb and IE8 on Windows 7, I've always found it more difficult to manage a whole bunch of tabs than a whole bunch of windows.
I don't like the Tabs on Top. It's ugly, cluttered, and makes the ergonomics slightly worse... a lose, lose, lose situation.
By ergonomics I mean that now you have to "reach" further with the mouse pointer to get up to the tab bar than you do in Safari 3. If they would make the keyboard shortcuts for "next tab" and "previous tab" something reasonable the ergonomics might be forgivable. (In Safari 3 switching tabs requires not only hitting 3 keys at once --- command, shift and left- or right-bracket, but also doing so with your right hand that's presumably on the mouse, or at least looking down and repositioning your left hand to the right side of the keyboard -- talk about an inelegant solution.)
Yup... I gotta agree with you for the most part. To add to your argument: Double Clicking on the Tab Bar in S3 was easy no matter where your mouse cursor was on the screen... now you must travel up to the upper right corner to create a new tab or use shortcut keys. Also, by amalgamating Tabs with the Title Bar it seems you can no longer just double click the Title Bar to collapse the window. Also, having the Tabs in the old/lower position gives the user a more direct connection to the "active tab" and the page being displayed... something that is lost having Tabs located across the top of S4B. Finally (this applies to both S3 & S4B), for right handed users, it seems to me that the Close Tab x is located on the wrong side of the Tab. In FireFox, the Close Tab x icon is on the right side (literally and figuratively) so that you do not have to travel across the tab to close a page... being right handed (as most people are) the mouse cursor is generally located on the right side of the screen by user default. Perhaps this should be customizable in preferences to accommodate left and right handed users. While I understand the thought process behind combining features... sometimes you get a compromise as both Tabs and the Title Bar are both less functional from previous versions of the app.
But this is the first public beta, so perhaps there will be refinement. And there is lots to praise in the newest version of Safari... S4B sure is snappy! And the new Top Sites feature seems to be a useful concept Apple borrowed from the Firefox FastDial plug-in.
I've been dedicated to Firefox for a long time, but as of yesterday I've dropped it.
Perhaps I'm jumping the gun a bit or maybe by dint of my generation I'm willing to adopt something faster than the average Joe, but Safari is now my default and I see no reason to go back.
I love the use of space and "tabs on top" functionality, and hopefully the full release will allow toolbar customization options. Otherwise, as soon as all of the options in the preferences menu go live I'll be fully stoked - it's driving me crazy that the "open a link in a new tab, not a new window" functionality isn't working yet.
What do you mean? The option has always worked for me as stated.
It has never worked. I click a link and it opens a new window instead of a new tab. OSX and windows. I can middle click the link and force it in a new tab but it's not the same.
It has never worked. I click a link and it opens a new window instead of a new tab. OSX and windows. I can middle click the link and force it in a new tab but it's not the same.
If you are referring to one-window mode, there is a hidden preference that you need to set:
1) The feature has indeed been in Opera for a while, so?
His point was AI incorrectly claimed
"Rather than only bumping up the size of text and destroying the layout of the page, as web browsers have historically offered to do, Safari 4 allows...
Firefox also can both magnify the whole as well as just textsize.
His other point was that who cares if this actually is a product of system level resolution independence, when simply scaling entire window contents is not that hard on either the programmer or the hardware. Works in Windows Safari 4 just fine. I mean, I've got a 300MHz PentiumII on XP that scales media player instantaneously.
Although I agree it's about time that they make this available in the preferences.
On OS X. I don't think that is available for the Windows version.
That is why i was asking him. I wasn't sure what aspect he was having an issue with. The one in Safari Preferences under the General tab does state quite clearly, "This applies to links from Mail, iChat, etc." I can see how the 'etc.' may lead one to think that it's for all links, but it means links to your web browser from a 3rd-party app.
Considering that Apple took the idea from Google, I'd say you are correct. I'd also think that FF will include it as an option. Probably one that isn't on by default, at first. IE will have it in about 5 years.
Considering that Apple took the idea from Google, I'd say you are correct. I'd also think that FF will include it as an option. Probably one that isn't on by default, at first. IE will have it in about 5 years.
Consider it payback for Google Chrome stealing Private Browsing (icognito)
Considering that Apple took the idea from Google, I'd say you are correct. I'd also think that FF will include it as an option. Probably one that isn't on by default, at first. IE will have it in about 5 years.
Sorry, Google took the idea from Opera. And neither Chrome, nor Opera have the tabs truly on top as Safari 4 does.
I don't recall seeing tabs on top in opera but i'll take your word for it. Chrome seems to have started this as far as I can see. Either way I don't like it. It just puts the tabs out of the way. It looks worse in Safari than it does in Chrome.
Consider it payback for Google Chrome stealing Private Browsing (icognito)
Quote:
Originally Posted by wobegon
Sorry, Google took the idea from Opera. And neither Chrome, nor Opera have the tabs truly on top as Safari 4 does.
I'm guessing that the others, sans IE, will place their tabs truly on top in the next major version.
Out of curiosity, where did certain features start. For instance, I first now of the included Google search bar from Firefox. And I first recall seeing the URL listing of history and bookmarks in Firefox 3. But those may not be the first inception. Does anyone recall where other common features first got their public debut? Like the tabs (in general), links bar, suggestive search, the multi-site splash page?
Tabs are already unnecessary to begin with. They don't scale well beyond a certain number of tabs. They offer hardly any visuals to someone that would want to switch to a web page quickly.
Tabs are a very handy way of queueing things. Any Google search of mine is followed by cmd-clicking promising looking results to open them in new tabs in the background.
Yeah, I really don't like that either. Usually, I had to access the button to *stop* a refresh, in which case (at least on my installation), it was a small "X" button to the immediate left of the address window. Now there is a small "+" button in the same place, that can't be moved and makes the bookmark. I keep hitting the + instead of the X. It's just way too visually similar.
cmd . stops the loading of pages (and acts as a cancel/esc in a lot of applications)
I don't recall seeing tabs on top in opera but i'll take your word for it. Chrome seems to have started this as far as I can see. Either way I don't like it. It just puts the tabs out of the way. It looks worse in Safari than it does in Chrome.
There are definitely images of Opera with the tabs above the URL, just like in Chrome, but most images still have its menu bar above it, though not all. The reason why Google is probably getting credit (besides how little known Opera is) is that Opera didn't integrate it visually like Chrome did to make it truly look like paper file folders. The colour and feel of the menu bar integrates with the free space next to the tabs. From my preliminary search, Wobegon is correct in that Safari is the first to actually integrate the window bar with tabs.
Comments
So is it safe to assume you open a new window for every single website in Safari?
Is it really that unusual to not use tabs? Other than OmniWeb and IE8 on Windows 7, I've always found it more difficult to manage a whole bunch of tabs than a whole bunch of windows.
I don't like the Tabs on Top. It's ugly, cluttered, and makes the ergonomics slightly worse... a lose, lose, lose situation.
By ergonomics I mean that now you have to "reach" further with the mouse pointer to get up to the tab bar than you do in Safari 3. If they would make the keyboard shortcuts for "next tab" and "previous tab" something reasonable the ergonomics might be forgivable. (In Safari 3 switching tabs requires not only hitting 3 keys at once --- command, shift and left- or right-bracket, but also doing so with your right hand that's presumably on the mouse, or at least looking down and repositioning your left hand to the right side of the keyboard -- talk about an inelegant solution.)
Yup... I gotta agree with you for the most part. To add to your argument: Double Clicking on the Tab Bar in S3 was easy no matter where your mouse cursor was on the screen... now you must travel up to the upper right corner to create a new tab or use shortcut keys. Also, by amalgamating Tabs with the Title Bar it seems you can no longer just double click the Title Bar to collapse the window. Also, having the Tabs in the old/lower position gives the user a more direct connection to the "active tab" and the page being displayed... something that is lost having Tabs located across the top of S4B. Finally (this applies to both S3 & S4B), for right handed users, it seems to me that the Close Tab x is located on the wrong side of the Tab. In FireFox, the Close Tab x icon is on the right side (literally and figuratively) so that you do not have to travel across the tab to close a page... being right handed (as most people are) the mouse cursor is generally located on the right side of the screen by user default. Perhaps this should be customizable in preferences to accommodate left and right handed users. While I understand the thought process behind combining features... sometimes you get a compromise as both Tabs and the Title Bar are both less functional from previous versions of the app.
But this is the first public beta, so perhaps there will be refinement. And there is lots to praise in the newest version of Safari... S4B sure is snappy! And the new Top Sites feature seems to be a useful concept Apple borrowed from the Firefox FastDial plug-in.
Perhaps I'm jumping the gun a bit or maybe by dint of my generation I'm willing to adopt something faster than the average Joe, but Safari is now my default and I see no reason to go back.
I love the use of space and "tabs on top" functionality, and hopefully the full release will allow toolbar customization options. Otherwise, as soon as all of the options in the preferences menu go live I'll be fully stoked - it's driving me crazy that the "open a link in a new tab, not a new window" functionality isn't working yet.
All in all, never seen a better browser. Awesome.
But the default action of opening a link in a new window is driving me crazy. My default action in FF is to open links in a new tab...
Love the zippiness of S4
Easily changed in the prefs....
And it still won't open tabs in the existing window. Why does safari continue to have this option if it doesn't work?
What do you mean? The option has always worked for me as stated.
What do you mean? The option has always worked for me as stated.
It has never worked. I click a link and it opens a new window instead of a new tab. OSX and windows. I can middle click the link and force it in a new tab but it's not the same.
It has never worked. I click a link and it opens a new window instead of a new tab. OSX and windows. I can middle click the link and force it in a new tab but it's not the same.
If you are referring to one-window mode, there is a hidden preference that you need to set:
defaults write com.apple.Safari TargetedClicksCreateTabs -bool true
Although I agree it's about time that they make this available in the preferences.
1) The feature has indeed been in Opera for a while, so?
His point was AI incorrectly claimedFirefox also can both magnify the whole as well as just textsize.
His other point was that who cares if this actually is a product of system level resolution independence, when simply scaling entire window contents is not that hard on either the programmer or the hardware. Works in Windows Safari 4 just fine. I mean, I've got a 300MHz PentiumII on XP that scales media player instantaneously.
If you are referring to one-window mode, there is a hidden preference that you need to set:
defaults write com.apple.Safari TargetedClicksCreateTabs -bool true
Although I agree it's about time that they make this available in the preferences.
Thank you.
How do I do that in windows?
If you are referring to one-window mode, there is a hidden preference that you need to set:
defaults write com.apple.Safari TargetedClicksCreateTabs -bool true
Although I agree it's about time that they make this available in the preferences.
On OS X. I don't think that is available for the Windows version.
That is why i was asking him. I wasn't sure what aspect he was having an issue with. The one in Safari Preferences under the General tab does state quite clearly, "This applies to links from Mail, iChat, etc." I can see how the 'etc.' may lead one to think that it's for all links, but it means links to your web browser from a 3rd-party app.
The page looks like a file folder now. Step back a little and take a gander. The one tab is bright and below it is the whole page.
It's very intuitive. It'll definitely catch on.
It's very intuitive. It'll definitely catch on.
Considering that Apple took the idea from Google, I'd say you are correct. I'd also think that FF will include it as an option. Probably one that isn't on by default, at first. IE will have it in about 5 years.
Considering that Apple took the idea from Google, I'd say you are correct. I'd also think that FF will include it as an option. Probably one that isn't on by default, at first. IE will have it in about 5 years.
Consider it payback for Google Chrome stealing Private Browsing (icognito)
Considering that Apple took the idea from Google, I'd say you are correct. I'd also think that FF will include it as an option. Probably one that isn't on by default, at first. IE will have it in about 5 years.
Sorry, Google took the idea from Opera. And neither Chrome, nor Opera have the tabs truly on top as Safari 4 does.
Consider it payback for Google Chrome stealing Private Browsing (icognito)
Sorry, Google took the idea from Opera. And neither Chrome, nor Opera have the tabs truly on top as Safari 4 does.
I'm guessing that the others, sans IE, will place their tabs truly on top in the next major version.
Out of curiosity, where did certain features start. For instance, I first now of the included Google search bar from Firefox. And I first recall seeing the URL listing of history and bookmarks in Firefox 3. But those may not be the first inception. Does anyone recall where other common features first got their public debut? Like the tabs (in general), links bar, suggestive search, the multi-site splash page?
Tabs are already unnecessary to begin with. They don't scale well beyond a certain number of tabs. They offer hardly any visuals to someone that would want to switch to a web page quickly.
Tabs are a very handy way of queueing things. Any Google search of mine is followed by cmd-clicking promising looking results to open them in new tabs in the background.
All this tabs on top complaining about mousing distance is lame.
ctrl+tab & ctrl+shift+tab switches between tabs. use it and stop whining.
Ever had 20+ tabs open? Crtl-tabbing through them is not the most efficient way.
Yeah, I really don't like that either. Usually, I had to access the button to *stop* a refresh, in which case (at least on my installation), it was a small "X" button to the immediate left of the address window. Now there is a small "+" button in the same place, that can't be moved and makes the bookmark. I keep hitting the + instead of the X. It's just way too visually similar.
cmd . stops the loading of pages (and acts as a cancel/esc in a lot of applications)
I don't recall seeing tabs on top in opera but i'll take your word for it. Chrome seems to have started this as far as I can see. Either way I don't like it. It just puts the tabs out of the way. It looks worse in Safari than it does in Chrome.
There are definitely images of Opera with the tabs above the URL, just like in Chrome, but most images still have its menu bar above it, though not all. The reason why Google is probably getting credit (besides how little known Opera is) is that Opera didn't integrate it visually like Chrome did to make it truly look like paper file folders. The colour and feel of the menu bar integrates with the free space next to the tabs. From my preliminary search, Wobegon is correct in that Safari is the first to actually integrate the window bar with tabs.