Thank you for your perspective. I talked with the Apple store rep that helped me spec the machine. He does the same kind of work I do so his perspective on the contrast of systems was valuable to me. Given the cost savings ($1000) I went with the 2.26 processor confident it will outperform the one I had on order. I will be doing a ton of Photoshop, Flash, AfterEffects Final Cut, InDesign, etc. and some 3D sculpting/character development but not likely fully rendered modeling. I up my graphics card to 4870 and will be up my ram to 8G after it arrives. Everything else is a plus and I saved $700 on my original order. This should be a better foundation than the one I first ordered.
Thanks again!
OWC charges $149.95 for four 2 GB sticks of RAM, and will give you some cash back from your older Ram.
You can also drool, I mean look, at the 32 GB package price.
It can take a year to come up with a really new lineup. These updates were likely planned 6 months ago as well. I don't think Apple, or most other companies can simply scrap their plans. You can do that with software, but with hardware, it's much more expensive.
Um, they could have simply lowered their margins out of the stratosphere..
You have to actually think about why the Brits are always bitching??
Because they lost the Empire? I don't know why Brits are constantly bitching - they have grown their standard of living faster than the US ever since Thatcher kicked their ass in gear - it was two thirds of the US standard of living then, and it is higher than the US now.
Maybe it is all the low speed limits, congestion charges, and bad food. I've never been, everything I know about the UK comes from Top Gear.
Um, they could have simply lowered their margins out of the stratosphere..
And just HOW are their margins in the stratosphere?
Their gross margins are about 33-34%. That's good, but no where stratospheric. Their profits are between 10 -12%. Again. good, but not nearly a lot.
Dell is dying. Their margins are now hovering around 17%. That's terrible! Their profits are about 6-7%. That's not as bad, but not good at all. Both numbers have been dropping.
From the other thread, he thinks that margins are near 100%, his math is suspect.
Which thread?
100%? That's even better than MS's 72%, which is one of the highest, though they are primarily a software house. Even so, they lose a couple of billion every year on hardware, games etc. Still, their profits are "in the Stratosphere".
$17 billion profit in 2008 on about $60 billion in sales! And that's after all their losses and interest payments.
Because they lost the Empire? I don't know why Brits are constantly bitching - they have grown their standard of living faster than the US ever since Thatcher kicked their ass in gear - it was two thirds of the US standard of living then, and it is higher than the US now.
Maybe it is all the low speed limits, congestion charges, and bad food. I've never been, everything I know about the UK comes from Top Gear.
Sometimes its a delicate question, but here it is to all.....
I just bought the "old" Mac Pro (dual 2.8 processors, 2 gigs of 800 ram, 320 HD and the gt8800 graphics card). Literally got it last week. Mac will take it back no probs. I ordered the 2.26 dual Xeon Nehalem, 6 gigs of the 1066 ram, and the nvidia 120 card. Basically a 200 dollar out of pocket to get the new one.
The Precision T3400 is a Core2Duo machine. Why do you care that it is less expensive than a Xeon machine? If Apple made a machine like the T3400, it would also be cheaper than the Mac Pro.
The consumer Core 2 Quads and the 3300-series Xeons are the same chips. With the memory controller being on the x38/48 North bridge, it didn't matter if you used the Core 2 or Xeon 3300 branding as there was no difference in capability. With the Nehalem chips, the memory controller the Core i7 chips have ECC support disabled. To use ECC memory you have to use the Xeon 3500 branded chips instead of the Core i7 chips, but there is no cost difference expect for ECC memory. Apple made a machine exactly like the T3400, they're just charging $2499 for it. Xeon and core are branding, nothing more.
Sometimes its a delicate question, but here it is to all.....
I just bought the "old" Mac Pro (dual 2.8 processors, 2 gigs of 800 ram, 320 HD and the gt8800 graphics card). Literally got it last week. Mac will take it back no probs. I ordered the 2.26 dual Xeon Nehalem, 6 gigs of the 1066 ram, and the nvidia 120 card. Basically a 200 dollar out of pocket to get the new one.
Good move?
2.8 old processors and 2.26 new ones?
Ram is a no brainer
Graphic card?
If you can afford it, you should go for the better 4870, unless graphics simply isn't important, and the processing bump you will get when 10.6 comes out isn't of interest. You could always buy that card later, for $349, and run the 120 in another slot if you need it.
Otherwise, I think it's a good move, though not all programs will benefit.
And just HOW are their margins in the stratosphere?
Their gross margins are about 33-34%. That's good, but no where stratospheric. Their profits are between 10 -12%. Again. good, but not nearly a lot.
Dell is dying. Their margins are now hovering around 17%. That's terrible! Their profits are about 6-7%. That's not as bad, but not good at all. Both numbers have been dropping.
Is that where you want Apple to be?
The only cost difference between a xeon 3500 machine and a Core i7 machine is the ECC memory and its not all that much.
Dell will sell you a Studio XPS in the same configuration as the quad MacPro at exactly half the price. The cheese grater case has been used in machines as low as $1299. There is no way to explain the $2499 price tag other than drastically increased margins.
The only cost difference between a xeon 3500 machine and a Core i7 machine is the ECC memory and its not all that much.
Dell will sell you a Studio XPS in the same configuration as the quad MacPro at exactly half the price. The cheese grater case has been used in machines as low as $1299. There is no way to explain the $2499 price tag other than drastically increased margins.
Oh please, stop it already. You're comparing consumer machines with industrial machines.
I know you're not happy about Apple not having a consumer machine in that price range, but these are not the same machines.
If you can afford it, you should go for the better 4870, unless graphics simply isn't important, and the processing bump you will get when 10.6 comes out isn't of interest. You could always buy that card later, for $349, and run the 120 in another slot if you need it.
Otherwise, I think it's a good move, though not all programs will benefit.
I'm with you on not all programs will benefit, but my biggest reason was that it at least has "more" current tech. It supported the 1066 ram as opposed to the 800 ram, and I just havent been able to get much info on the processors and how head to head the old 2.8 I have compares to the 2.26 overall in performance.
There is no way to explain the $2499 price tag other than drastically increased margins.
One's inability to currently understand something does not mean that there is no way to explain it. You keep stating that these chips are EXACTLY the same in price and construction, except for ECC, but you have shown us no proof that these Nehalem Xeons, which aren't even officially out yet, are the same. The last I read, the prices for the chips were going up dramatically.
I just love when the "mindlessly conform or leave the platform" card is used. You people who use Apple solely for the privilege of being associated with the name have no respect for the effort required in a reverse switch. The Dell can't run my programs or use my files because it is not running OSX.
Comments
Thank you for your perspective. I talked with the Apple store rep that helped me spec the machine. He does the same kind of work I do so his perspective on the contrast of systems was valuable to me. Given the cost savings ($1000) I went with the 2.26 processor confident it will outperform the one I had on order. I will be doing a ton of Photoshop, Flash, AfterEffects Final Cut, InDesign, etc. and some 3D sculpting/character development but not likely fully rendered modeling. I up my graphics card to 4870 and will be up my ram to 8G after it arrives. Everything else is a plus and I saved $700 on my original order. This should be a better foundation than the one I first ordered.
Thanks again!
OWC charges $149.95 for four 2 GB sticks of RAM, and will give you some cash back from your older Ram.
You can also drool, I mean look, at the 32 GB package price.
http://eshop.macsales.com/MyOWC/Upgr...=Show+Upgrades
Have no idea why. It's not as if Apple was cheap over here in the first place.
You have to actually think about why the Brits are always bitching??
It can take a year to come up with a really new lineup. These updates were likely planned 6 months ago as well. I don't think Apple, or most other companies can simply scrap their plans. You can do that with software, but with hardware, it's much more expensive.
Um, they could have simply lowered their margins out of the stratosphere..
You have to actually think about why the Brits are always bitching??
Because they lost the Empire? I don't know why Brits are constantly bitching - they have grown their standard of living faster than the US ever since Thatcher kicked their ass in gear - it was two thirds of the US standard of living then, and it is higher than the US now.
Maybe it is all the low speed limits, congestion charges, and bad food. I've never been, everything I know about the UK comes from Top Gear.
Um, they could have simply lowered their margins out of the stratosphere..
And just HOW are their margins in the stratosphere?
Their gross margins are about 33-34%. That's good, but no where stratospheric. Their profits are between 10 -12%. Again. good, but not nearly a lot.
Dell is dying. Their margins are now hovering around 17%. That's terrible! Their profits are about 6-7%. That's not as bad, but not good at all. Both numbers have been dropping.
Is that where you want Apple to be?
And just HOW are their margins in the stratosphere?
From the other thread, he thinks that margins are near 100%, his math is suspect.
From the other thread, he thinks that margins are near 100%, his math is suspect.
Which thread?
100%? That's even better than MS's 72%, which is one of the highest, though they are primarily a software house. Even so, they lose a couple of billion every year on hardware, games etc. Still, their profits are "in the Stratosphere".
$17 billion profit in 2008 on about $60 billion in sales! And that's after all their losses and interest payments.
Whew!
Which thread?
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=95922
post 24 -- oops, sorry, different guy - my bad.
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=95922
post 24 -- oops, sorry, different guy - my bad.
I responded there.
Because they lost the Empire? I don't know why Brits are constantly bitching - they have grown their standard of living faster than the US ever since Thatcher kicked their ass in gear - it was two thirds of the US standard of living then, and it is higher than the US now.
Maybe it is all the low speed limits, congestion charges, and bad food. I've never been, everything I know about the UK comes from Top Gear.
That last line cracks me up.
I just bought the "old" Mac Pro (dual 2.8 processors, 2 gigs of 800 ram, 320 HD and the gt8800 graphics card). Literally got it last week. Mac will take it back no probs. I ordered the 2.26 dual Xeon Nehalem, 6 gigs of the 1066 ram, and the nvidia 120 card. Basically a 200 dollar out of pocket to get the new one.
Good move?
2.8 old processors and 2.26 new ones?
Ram is a no brainer
Graphic card?
The Precision T3400 is a Core2Duo machine. Why do you care that it is less expensive than a Xeon machine? If Apple made a machine like the T3400, it would also be cheaper than the Mac Pro.
The consumer Core 2 Quads and the 3300-series Xeons are the same chips. With the memory controller being on the x38/48 North bridge, it didn't matter if you used the Core 2 or Xeon 3300 branding as there was no difference in capability. With the Nehalem chips, the memory controller the Core i7 chips have ECC support disabled. To use ECC memory you have to use the Xeon 3500 branded chips instead of the Core i7 chips, but there is no cost difference expect for ECC memory. Apple made a machine exactly like the T3400, they're just charging $2499 for it. Xeon and core are branding, nothing more.
2.8 old processors and 2.26 new ones?
Ram is a no brainer
Graphic card?
IMHO it is a wash. The processor is about the same speed, memory is faster, and the graphics card is slower. Why don't you bump it up to the ATI card?
Apple made a machine exactly like the T3400, they're just charging $2499 for it. Xeon and core are branding, nothing more.
Then buy the Dell and be happy.
Sometimes its a delicate question, but here it is to all.....
I just bought the "old" Mac Pro (dual 2.8 processors, 2 gigs of 800 ram, 320 HD and the gt8800 graphics card). Literally got it last week. Mac will take it back no probs. I ordered the 2.26 dual Xeon Nehalem, 6 gigs of the 1066 ram, and the nvidia 120 card. Basically a 200 dollar out of pocket to get the new one.
Good move?
2.8 old processors and 2.26 new ones?
Ram is a no brainer
Graphic card?
If you can afford it, you should go for the better 4870, unless graphics simply isn't important, and the processing bump you will get when 10.6 comes out isn't of interest. You could always buy that card later, for $349, and run the 120 in another slot if you need it.
Otherwise, I think it's a good move, though not all programs will benefit.
And just HOW are their margins in the stratosphere?
Their gross margins are about 33-34%. That's good, but no where stratospheric. Their profits are between 10 -12%. Again. good, but not nearly a lot.
Dell is dying. Their margins are now hovering around 17%. That's terrible! Their profits are about 6-7%. That's not as bad, but not good at all. Both numbers have been dropping.
Is that where you want Apple to be?
The only cost difference between a xeon 3500 machine and a Core i7 machine is the ECC memory and its not all that much.
Dell will sell you a Studio XPS in the same configuration as the quad MacPro at exactly half the price. The cheese grater case has been used in machines as low as $1299. There is no way to explain the $2499 price tag other than drastically increased margins.
The only cost difference between a xeon 3500 machine and a Core i7 machine is the ECC memory and its not all that much.
Dell will sell you a Studio XPS in the same configuration as the quad MacPro at exactly half the price. The cheese grater case has been used in machines as low as $1299. There is no way to explain the $2499 price tag other than drastically increased margins.
Oh please, stop it already. You're comparing consumer machines with industrial machines.
I know you're not happy about Apple not having a consumer machine in that price range, but these are not the same machines.
Get over it!
If you can afford it, you should go for the better 4870, unless graphics simply isn't important, and the processing bump you will get when 10.6 comes out isn't of interest. You could always buy that card later, for $349, and run the 120 in another slot if you need it.
Otherwise, I think it's a good move, though not all programs will benefit.
I'm with you on not all programs will benefit, but my biggest reason was that it at least has "more" current tech. It supported the 1066 ram as opposed to the 800 ram, and I just havent been able to get much info on the processors and how head to head the old 2.8 I have compares to the 2.26 overall in performance.
There is no way to explain the $2499 price tag other than drastically increased margins.
One's inability to currently understand something does not mean that there is no way to explain it. You keep stating that these chips are EXACTLY the same in price and construction, except for ECC, but you have shown us no proof that these Nehalem Xeons, which aren't even officially out yet, are the same. The last I read, the prices for the chips were going up dramatically.
Then buy the Dell and be happy.
I just love when the "mindlessly conform or leave the platform" card is used. You people who use Apple solely for the privilege of being associated with the name have no respect for the effort required in a reverse switch. The Dell can't run my programs or use my files because it is not running OSX.