Ha! You were so angry about the Pro offerings because Apple was focusing so much on consumers. Now you're angry about the consumer offerings.
But I agree. Some things are not making that much sense right now.
Isn't ECC memory important? If it isn't is it just a big scam?
Great question. I have seen tons of defending the new quad based on ECC, but nobody has been able to explain how specifically it makes a difference to the person sitting there running the apps.
Ha! You were so angry about the Pro offerings because Apple was focusing so much on consumers. Now you're angry about the consumer offerings.
But I agree. Some things are not making that much sense right now.
Isn't ECC memory important? If it isn't is it just a big scam?
Ha ha ha. I know. Apple has me all in a bunch. I do mostly audio on the side. Cd samples for Sony sonic foundryband ultimate soundbanks. I get more powernfrom my 2.4 glossy MacBook pro FireWire 800 external running target leopard FireWire 400 for pro audio than a dual g5. Almost double the FPU meaning a lot of plug INS. I was saying though. Since they miles FireWire on laptop macbook and knowing mb sell more than desktop. Maybe mini will run motion fcp, if so, a pleasant surprise. The 1st - 3rs ten MacBook didn't play games but ran pro apps untilmapple killed it with x1300 or x300. Of course latest has no FireWire so am hopefuln that you might be able to run pro apps. Wouldnmake a great backup machine too. Daisy chained to ext. Hdrives. Typing=iPhone.
You may have a point about trolls Abster2core, but you must appreciate this update looks very different on opposite sides of the Atlantic. It's significant how many US customers are unhappy with it, the price drop notwithstanding. It could be argued that this is a departure from the long established Apple model of maintaining price points while upgrading the tech, whereas this is pretty much maintaining the tech while dropping the price. From where I'm sitting that doesn't look like such a bad deal, because over here all we got really was a whopping price rise. Yes I am aware of currency fluctuatons, but with this update, when the pound is low to the dollar, Apple have passed on a full equivalence, yet eighteen months ago, when the currency situation was reversed we only ever got a partial equivalence. Or to put it simply, with a high pound we only got partial benefit, with the low pound we've got the full impact. This isn't playing fair, and just like with MS's Vista multi-version debacle - Home crap; just about works; with knobs on: whatever - people ain't buying it, either literally or figuratively. Somehow, Apple have managed to alienate a significant proportion of their (fiercely loyal) customer base, while simultaneously slamming the door on new customers. For example, I have a friend who does not have a computer (yes are there still some!) and he is now in the market for one. It has taken me months to prise him away from "But I can get a nice little Dell for £350" with all the added value, virus-free arguments I could summon, and had got him to the point where he was ready to bite. 'Just hang on a bit' I advised him, 'an update is overdue...' Well the update has come - result? One lost sale right there.
You would have to drag me screaming in chains into Vistaland, but my long overdue G4 iMac update, which this was going to be, has now been deferred until such time as Apple stops taking the piss out of their UK customers. Two lost sales just in my immediate orbit - and you can be sure that extrapolates into significant numbers nationwide. I said it in these forums two days ago - one nailed on certainty is that Apple's desktop sales in the UK are going to plummet this year, and it will be as a direct result of the worst decision Apple has made in my long time love affair with the company. Let's hope this is just an aberration, perhaps caused by SJ's unfortunate health issues, and that by the summer they get back to being a company that maintains the very high standards it has established over many years.
With all this complaining you would think that Apple claimed this would be the mother of all updates!!
I don't know what people were thinking but Apple promised nothing and no special event was held to indicate that this will be a major. Only few rumors websites and analysts made that claim.
Personally, by reading AI and following the news I did not expect a major update to Mac desktops. It just didn't make sense especially in these now with PC sales declining and the economy taking hits on a daily bases. The only consistent rumor was the graphics upgrade and that was obvious. What I think is significant in this update is the iMac price cut (in the US) which I think will increase sales. At least now we can cash out on the high Dollar rate.
I think Apple had two choices, either to upgrade the processor and keep the price the same or keep the processor the same and lower the price. Even Apple can't completely dodge this economy,
Great question. I have seen tons of defending the new quad based on ECC, but nobody has been able to explain how specifically it makes a difference to the person sitting there running the apps.
ECC memory, as you know, prevents the random errors caused by outside problems such as cosmic rays. Now, we've had this discussion before (not with you), where a couple of people laughed at that idea. But it's a bigger problem all the time as circuits get smaller. I provided several links about it, and those people vanished.
It's not important for most people. But Servers and most workstations do use ECC memory because their work is often more critical.
It might not matter if a bit or two in a photo goes astray, but on a transaction database it could be a disaster. The same thing for scientific research. That's why you don't find consumer machines being used in those areas.
Apple's point has been that CPU growth is slowing down. The GPU is becoming much more important, not only for graphics, but for other tasks as well. That's why Apple embarked on OpenCL and Grand Central.
I think users are going to notice a significant difference for the majority of tasks especially after Snow Leopard is released.
By the way, integrated graphics using the Nvidia 9400 should no longer be looked down upon as crap. It's now competitive with low to mid-tier discrete graphics cards.
The 9400M is great in the MacBook. Definitely something to shout about. But for it to drive a 1680x1050 20" and a 1900x1200 24" on a *desktop* which features include *gaming* and increased, as you mention, dependence on GPU for better user experience... I mean, that's stretching it. After about a year going from Radeon 2600 256mb dedicated VRAM to a 9400 integrated... and looking 2 to 3 years ahead... I think its asking way too much of the 9400M and demonstrates "hacky" thinking on Apple management's part.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core
For some funny reason, this is just like most first posts that are hitting Appleinsider and Macworld as well.
Crap on Apple, its staff, Jobs, Mac,s without hesitation. Threatening to buy pcs, which in itself questions the bloggers true identity; once a Mac, you never go back.
Alway wants this, wants that, cheaper, cheaper, and are sickeningly disappointed.
Just perusing through the last few articles, out of the 24 new posters, there were 15 trashers, 3 were neutral and 6 were positive. Most interesting: a significant number of newbies are from the UK and just seemed they couldn't wait to spew crap.
More intriguing, they seem to be using the same words or phrases, like, "I have respected Apple for having a vision of innovation?" But again, most have never had a Mac.
Bottom line: I think that a lot of the trolls are not a lot. Just one or two AH's that multi-registered.
Well, I don't know how many are in my situation, I use a Mac but also used to use a PC for gaming. In my situation, and there may be people like me, instead of getting a better Mac now I am just thinking of hanging on to my 3 year old one, and getting a high-value advanced-component PC on the side.
I can't go back to my main machine not being a Mac, of course. But my thinking is now more in terms of contingency if my main Mac craps out (AppleCare 3 year runs out in May) ~ what Mac would I get? Maybe the white 9400M MacBook 'coz there's some great value there or maybe a refurb MacBook Alu. Nothing more. Possibly something less, the absolute base Mac Mini. My budget/ income/ aspirations aside, I am cleary influenced by the latest updates to "hold off, wait and see, hold the fort", while all these stimulus packages around the world start injecting grease back into the wheels of the global economy...
Trolls aside, perhaps there are quite a number in my position, perhaps.
If anything, the Mac Pro suffered the worst from these updates, demotion from 8 to quad, demotion to 8 gigs of ram, and a big price boost...
Ironically, the quad Mac Pro is the xMac everyone wanted. Just at twice the size and twice the price. Basically it is a Mac version of sexy Core i7 (though not marketed as Core i7, just Nehalem...) ~ for the premium consumer markets...?
Computer growth in 2008 was 17.8%, 2009 computer growth is projected at 8.2%. Notebooks are expected to account for 63% of computer sales in 2009, desktops are expected to be way down.
Looking at these projections and looking at Apple's actions. Apple has had a major update with its notebooks which have achieved strong sales. From these projections its not likely Apple would sell a significant number of desktops even if it had a major update. Strategically it would be better for Apple to have a major desktop update when the economy rebounds and money is flowing again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008
It depends. There are risks both ways. Less compelling products could mean fewer sales... As in, fewer sales than you expect to have even in a soft market. Which results in lower revenues so you play it even "more" safe with a simpler update the next time, and so on.
I suggest "defeatist" thinking is not helpful, companies should think about how to deliver high-perceived-value-and-high-value products produced at lower or similar cost. Companies should think about market segments they could enter to compensate for issues. Companies should look at existing markets and think about cross-sell and up-sell opportunities.
Strategically it would be better for Apple to have a major desktop update when the economy rebounds and money is flowing again.
Right. The economy will rebound in 8 months right? If you've been following the news, the global economy is whacked right now and no one seems to know what is going to happen 4 months from now. So, Apple should just keep selling Core 2 Duos at $1300+ until this recession is over in 1, 2, 3 years. Rip off their fans and people who don't know any better during tough economic times. Great company.
Well will see the outcome when the smoke clears. Their isn't much purpose in having faster machines when no one is buying them. Lost revenue and laid off works force don't care about Core i7.
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder
Yep, and penryn is pretty old technology. Now there are consumer PCs shipping with quad core i7 that will leave even the newest fastest iMac in the dust.
Question Who the hell buys desktop computers with integrated graphics and laptop processors that are over a year old?
Answer:
Answer is that over 50% of computers sold have Intel integrated GMA, which Intel does not update very often. Millions of computers are sold with old technology.
What economists are sure of is the fact that 2009 will be terrible. Its expected and hoped that the economy will begin to recover around late 2009 into early 2010. The recovery will take some time to get things back to full speed. No the recession is not expected to last 2 or 3 years.
It would not be the best move for Apple to launch new desktops right in the middle of the worst part of the recession. When desktops are expected to have the worst sales they've had in 10 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by poxonyou
Right. The economy will rebound in 8 months right? If you've been following the news, the global economy is whacked right now and no one seems to know what is going to happen 4 months from now. So, Apple should just keep selling Core 2 Duos at $1300+ until this recession is over in 1, 2, 3 years. Rip off their fans and people who don't know any better during tough economic times. Great company.
For some funny reason, this is just like most first posts that are hitting Appleinsider and Macworld as well.
Crap on Apple, its staff, Jobs, Mac,s without hesitation. Threatening to buy pcs, which in itself questions the bloggers true identity; once a Mac, you never go back.
Alway wants this, wants that, cheaper, cheaper, and are sickeningly disappointed.
Just perusing through the last few articles, out of the 24 new posters, there were 15 trashers, 3 were neutral and 6 were positive. Most interesting: a significant number of newbies are from the UK and just seemed they couldn't wait to spew crap.
More intriguing, they seem to be using the same words or phrases, like, "I have respected Apple for having a vision of innovation…" But again, most have never had a Mac.
Bottom line: I think that a lot of the trolls are not a lot. Just one or two AH's that multi-registered.
For the record : I luv my 3 year old 20" white iMac and would not trade it up for any of these new ones for anything in the world. Why do you have such a problem with that? I'm not the only one. And I've owned and used Macs for over 10 years.
I simply stated I will probaby buy a MacMiini and save $1,000 now- is that threatening to buy a PC?. Is that such a crime against Apple?
Do you even own an iMac?
And again you call people names (trolls) just because they don't like what's being offered?? WTF??
Comments
Ha! You were so angry about the Pro offerings because Apple was focusing so much on consumers. Now you're angry about the consumer offerings.
But I agree. Some things are not making that much sense right now.
Isn't ECC memory important? If it isn't is it just a big scam?
Great question. I have seen tons of defending the new quad based on ECC, but nobody has been able to explain how specifically it makes a difference to the person sitting there running the apps.
Question:Who the hell buys a computer based solely on clock speed?
Answer: Idiots
Question:Who the hell relies on benchmarks based solely on clock speed?
Answer: Idiots
Question Who the hell buys desktop computers with integrated graphics and laptop processors that are over a year old?
Answer:
Ha! You were so angry about the Pro offerings because Apple was focusing so much on consumers. Now you're angry about the consumer offerings.
But I agree. Some things are not making that much sense right now.
Isn't ECC memory important? If it isn't is it just a big scam?
Ha ha ha. I know. Apple has me all in a bunch. I do mostly audio on the side. Cd samples for Sony sonic foundryband ultimate soundbanks. I get more powernfrom my 2.4 glossy MacBook pro FireWire 800 external running target leopard FireWire 400 for pro audio than a dual g5. Almost double the FPU meaning a lot of plug INS. I was saying though. Since they miles FireWire on laptop macbook and knowing mb sell more than desktop. Maybe mini will run motion fcp, if so, a pleasant surprise. The 1st - 3rs ten MacBook didn't play games but ran pro apps untilmapple killed it with x1300 or x300. Of course latest has no FireWire so am hopefuln that you might be able to run pro apps. Wouldnmake a great backup machine too. Daisy chained to ext. Hdrives. Typing=iPhone.
You would have to drag me screaming in chains into Vistaland, but my long overdue G4 iMac update, which this was going to be, has now been deferred until such time as Apple stops taking the piss out of their UK customers. Two lost sales just in my immediate orbit - and you can be sure that extrapolates into significant numbers nationwide. I said it in these forums two days ago - one nailed on certainty is that Apple's desktop sales in the UK are going to plummet this year, and it will be as a direct result of the worst decision Apple has made in my long time love affair with the company. Let's hope this is just an aberration, perhaps caused by SJ's unfortunate health issues, and that by the summer they get back to being a company that maintains the very high standards it has established over many years.
Question Who the hell buys desktop computers with integrated graphics and laptop processors that are over a year old?
Answer:
Nice one.
I don't know what people were thinking but Apple promised nothing and no special event was held to indicate that this will be a major. Only few rumors websites and analysts made that claim.
Personally, by reading AI and following the news I did not expect a major update to Mac desktops. It just didn't make sense especially in these now with PC sales declining and the economy taking hits on a daily bases. The only consistent rumor was the graphics upgrade and that was obvious. What I think is significant in this update is the iMac price cut (in the US) which I think will increase sales. At least now we can cash out on the high Dollar rate.
I think Apple had two choices, either to upgrade the processor and keep the price the same or keep the processor the same and lower the price. Even Apple can't completely dodge this economy,
Great question. I have seen tons of defending the new quad based on ECC, but nobody has been able to explain how specifically it makes a difference to the person sitting there running the apps.
ECC memory, as you know, prevents the random errors caused by outside problems such as cosmic rays. Now, we've had this discussion before (not with you), where a couple of people laughed at that idea. But it's a bigger problem all the time as circuits get smaller. I provided several links about it, and those people vanished.
It's not important for most people. But Servers and most workstations do use ECC memory because their work is often more critical.
It might not matter if a bit or two in a photo goes astray, but on a transaction database it could be a disaster. The same thing for scientific research. That's why you don't find consumer machines being used in those areas.
Apple's point has been that CPU growth is slowing down. The GPU is becoming much more important, not only for graphics, but for other tasks as well. That's why Apple embarked on OpenCL and Grand Central.
I think users are going to notice a significant difference for the majority of tasks especially after Snow Leopard is released.
By the way, integrated graphics using the Nvidia 9400 should no longer be looked down upon as crap. It's now competitive with low to mid-tier discrete graphics cards.
The 9400M is great in the MacBook. Definitely something to shout about. But for it to drive a 1680x1050 20" and a 1900x1200 24" on a *desktop* which features include *gaming* and increased, as you mention, dependence on GPU for better user experience... I mean, that's stretching it. After about a year going from Radeon 2600 256mb dedicated VRAM to a 9400 integrated... and looking 2 to 3 years ahead... I think its asking way too much of the 9400M and demonstrates "hacky" thinking on Apple management's part.
For some funny reason, this is just like most first posts that are hitting Appleinsider and Macworld as well.
Crap on Apple, its staff, Jobs, Mac,s without hesitation. Threatening to buy pcs, which in itself questions the bloggers true identity; once a Mac, you never go back.
Alway wants this, wants that, cheaper, cheaper, and are sickeningly disappointed.
Just perusing through the last few articles, out of the 24 new posters, there were 15 trashers, 3 were neutral and 6 were positive. Most interesting: a significant number of newbies are from the UK and just seemed they couldn't wait to spew crap.
More intriguing, they seem to be using the same words or phrases, like, "I have respected Apple for having a vision of innovation?" But again, most have never had a Mac.
Bottom line: I think that a lot of the trolls are not a lot. Just one or two AH's that multi-registered.
Well, I don't know how many are in my situation, I use a Mac but also used to use a PC for gaming. In my situation, and there may be people like me, instead of getting a better Mac now I am just thinking of hanging on to my 3 year old one, and getting a high-value advanced-component PC on the side.
I can't go back to my main machine not being a Mac, of course. But my thinking is now more in terms of contingency if my main Mac craps out (AppleCare 3 year runs out in May) ~ what Mac would I get? Maybe the white 9400M MacBook 'coz there's some great value there or maybe a refurb MacBook Alu. Nothing more. Possibly something less, the absolute base Mac Mini. My budget/ income/ aspirations aside, I am cleary influenced by the latest updates to "hold off, wait and see, hold the fort", while all these stimulus packages around the world start injecting grease back into the wheels of the global economy...
Trolls aside, perhaps there are quite a number in my position, perhaps.
The marketing for mini says the mini is more powerful, which is true, the graphics are much improved, and as the article says, pretty much untested.
Ha ha, anything that haven't been updated for that long will be more powerful!
If anything, the Mac Pro suffered the worst from these updates, demotion from 8 to quad, demotion to 8 gigs of ram, and a big price boost...
Ironically, the quad Mac Pro is the xMac everyone wanted. Just at twice the size and twice the price. Basically it is a Mac version of sexy Core i7 (though not marketed as Core i7, just Nehalem...) ~ for the premium consumer markets...?
Question Who the hell buys desktop computers with integrated graphics and laptop processors that are over a year old?
Answer:
People that have work to do and don't have time to whine about the latest and greatest in an online forum.
Or to put it another way, way more people than those that are concerned about such trivial things.
Question Who the hell buys desktop computers with integrated graphics and laptop processors that are over a year old?
Answer:
Millions
Looking at these projections and looking at Apple's actions. Apple has had a major update with its notebooks which have achieved strong sales. From these projections its not likely Apple would sell a significant number of desktops even if it had a major update. Strategically it would be better for Apple to have a major desktop update when the economy rebounds and money is flowing again.
It depends. There are risks both ways. Less compelling products could mean fewer sales... As in, fewer sales than you expect to have even in a soft market. Which results in lower revenues so you play it even "more" safe with a simpler update the next time, and so on.
I suggest "defeatist" thinking is not helpful, companies should think about how to deliver high-perceived-value-and-high-value products produced at lower or similar cost. Companies should think about market segments they could enter to compensate for issues. Companies should look at existing markets and think about cross-sell and up-sell opportunities.
Strategically it would be better for Apple to have a major desktop update when the economy rebounds and money is flowing again.
Right. The economy will rebound in 8 months right? If you've been following the news, the global economy is whacked right now and no one seems to know what is going to happen 4 months from now. So, Apple should just keep selling Core 2 Duos at $1300+ until this recession is over in 1, 2, 3 years. Rip off their fans and people who don't know any better during tough economic times. Great company.
Yep, and penryn is pretty old technology. Now there are consumer PCs shipping with quad core i7 that will leave even the newest fastest iMac in the dust.
Question Who the hell buys desktop computers with integrated graphics and laptop processors that are over a year old?
Answer:
Answer is that over 50% of computers sold have Intel integrated GMA, which Intel does not update very often. Millions of computers are sold with old technology.
It would not be the best move for Apple to launch new desktops right in the middle of the worst part of the recession. When desktops are expected to have the worst sales they've had in 10 years.
Right. The economy will rebound in 8 months right? If you've been following the news, the global economy is whacked right now and no one seems to know what is going to happen 4 months from now. So, Apple should just keep selling Core 2 Duos at $1300+ until this recession is over in 1, 2, 3 years. Rip off their fans and people who don't know any better during tough economic times. Great company.
I like the results in these charts.
Show's that my iMac 24" 3.06 GHz, from last June, is still KING of this heap.
Not quite - they didn't test the NEW 3.06 GHz iMac.
For some funny reason, this is just like most first posts that are hitting Appleinsider and Macworld as well.
Crap on Apple, its staff, Jobs, Mac,s without hesitation. Threatening to buy pcs, which in itself questions the bloggers true identity; once a Mac, you never go back.
Alway wants this, wants that, cheaper, cheaper, and are sickeningly disappointed.
Just perusing through the last few articles, out of the 24 new posters, there were 15 trashers, 3 were neutral and 6 were positive. Most interesting: a significant number of newbies are from the UK and just seemed they couldn't wait to spew crap.
More intriguing, they seem to be using the same words or phrases, like, "I have respected Apple for having a vision of innovation…" But again, most have never had a Mac.
Bottom line: I think that a lot of the trolls are not a lot. Just one or two AH's that multi-registered.
For the record : I luv my 3 year old 20" white iMac and would not trade it up for any of these new ones for anything in the world. Why do you have such a problem with that? I'm not the only one. And I've owned and used Macs for over 10 years.
I simply stated I will probaby buy a MacMiini and save $1,000 now- is that threatening to buy a PC?. Is that such a crime against Apple?
Do you even own an iMac?
And again you call people names (trolls) just because they don't like what's being offered?? WTF??
Not quite - they didn't test the NEW 3.06 GHz iMac.
Woah, you're right. I had the impression that there wasn't one, but it's behind the Apple "by now" link.