Apple picks at Psystar counterclaim as court info goes secret

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  • Reply 21 of 172
    nasseraenasserae Posts: 3,158member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh View Post


    NO



    Psystar is violating Apple's licensing terms which is a civil matter. Psystar is claiming either that Apple's licensing terms are not binding, or that their claim of copyright protection under DMCA is not applicable... can't quite tell which.



    I think the judge already dismissed the licensing term violation part. Psystar are now claiming that Apple is abusing the copyright law by limiting Mac OS installation to their own machines and they want Mac OS copyright to be invalidated based on that. If they succeed, which I think is impossible, then Apple cannot have control over the distribution on their Mac OS and Psystar (and anyone else) can do whatever they want with the software without Apple permission.
  • Reply 22 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Archipellago View Post


    go Pystar.... here's hoping.!



    With the recently announced, Nehelem Mac Pro's, Apple has just re-enforced the growing demand for a more economical, third party desktop hardware solution that can run OSX - Apple's EULA be damned.



    Charging $2499 for an entry level Mac Pro that has only a single socket 2.66GHz Nehalem Xeon processor (retailing for around $350), is the ultimate in hubris from Apple in these harsh economic times.

    The New 4-core, entry level 2.66GHz Mac Pro has about $1200-1400 in hardware cost total - a mark-up of anywhere from 80-100% by Apple. The same is true with the New 8-Core Mac Pro that is going for $3299.

    It sports (2), low level, 2.26 Xeon processors - that retail for around $350 each ($700 for both). The mark-up for these machines is well over 100%.

    At least my 2008, entry level, 8-core 2.8GHz Penryn Mac Pro had (2) $750 ($1500) chips when it was released at $2799 - a far better value in hardware cost.



    Apple, and all of you die hard Appleholics can scream bloody murder at pip-squeek upstarts like Psystar till you turn blue in the face. As long as Apple insists on increasing it's profit margins, and price gouging for generic (PC) hardware that is readily and affordably available on the open market, then the we are going to see more and more challengers to Apple's Hardware monopoly - both personally and publicly - regardless of Apple's pathologically litigious behavior.



    And don't give me that old " If you don't like what Apple is charging - then don't but it" crap. In reality - most of us are locked into OSX as an operating system - simply because of the fact that we have already invested thousands of $$$ in OSX compatible software throughout the years. Apple knows and is exploiting this to the hilt - that is why they have become even more aggressive in applying their "Apple Tax" on all of their new OSX hardware. But the Mac natives are getting mighty restless in these fragile economic days.

    http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...threadid=95870

    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=660643



    If you AppleTologist are up in arms over the heathen Psystar, and it's "crappy" Mac clones, you had better buckle up - cause it's gonna be a very, very bumpy ride for ya'll in the coming months. EFI-X Here we come!!!
  • Reply 23 of 172
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stevielee View Post


    Charging $2499 for an entry level Mac Pro that has only a single socket 2.66GHz Nehalem Xeon processor (retailing for around $350), is the ultimate in hubris from Apple in these harsh economic times.



    Geez! can we get some proof from Intel as to what they are selling these new Xeons for per 1000 before making such claims?!



    Quote:

    If you AppleTologist are up in arms over the heathen Psystar, and it's "crappy" Mac clones, you had better buckle up - cause it's gonna be a very, very bumpy ride for ya'll in the coming months. EFI-X Here we come!!!



    EFI-X is great and legal, proving you have a supported MoBo. The only issue is if companies sell Mac OS X pre-installed on machines using the chip, like the EFIX USA tried to do before EFI-X rightly quashed them. If Psystar offer this solution with an uninstalled disc of Mac OS X, I see no reason why that would illegal, but that isn't what they doing, is it?
  • Reply 24 of 172
    [QUOTE=solipsism;1386215]Geez! can we get some proof from Intel as to what they are selling these new Xeons for per 1000 before making such claims?!



    Proof: see 2 posts below

    Sorry for the double posting...
  • Reply 25 of 172
    nasseraenasserae Posts: 3,158member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stevielee View Post


    [

    Proof:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_N...roarchitecture)



    The "entry level" 2.66GHz Quad core Mac Pro has a Xeon W 3500 series Chip that is for SP motherboards only, and sells for around $375.00.

    Do the math here. Outside of the processor ($375) and motherboard ($250 Max), what other

    hardware components included in the 2.66GHz Mac Pro, that would bring the total hardware cost anything over $1.500 at best?

    The same is true for the 8-core 2.26GHz Mac Pro. As you can clearly see by the Nehalem pricing charts, the 2.26GHz chip is going for $378 each in batches of 1,000. I would guess that Apple

    was able to get even better pricing than that.



    The new Mac Pro's are one of the worst value-to-performance ratios that Apple has ever released in their high-end desktop line.



    Unless everyone else (Dell, HP etc.) follows suit and sets their upcoming Xeon Nehelem workstation prices similar to Apple's HUGE mark-ups (highly unlikely in this economy), then

    Apple will be all alone in shamelessly doubling their profit margins on hardware, at their "loyal" consumers expense.



    Apple could get away with price-gouging like this when they used proprietary PPC processors.

    Not anymore. We can now all see pretty much what it cost to "build a mac" from scratch, and it's not anywhere near what Apple is charging. Keep it up Apple. Talk about killing the goose here.



    I suggest you visit Dell website and configure a machine to match Mac Pro specs. The price is within $100 of Mac Pro. Try it and tell us what you get please.
  • Reply 26 of 172
    [QUOTE=solipsism;1386215]Geez! can we get some proof from Intel as to what they are selling these new Xeons for per 1000 before making such claims?!



    Proof:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...e)&redirect=no



    The "entry level" 2.66GHz Quad core Mac Pro has a Xeon W 3500 series Chip that is for SP motherboards only, and sells for around $375.00.

    Do the math here. Outside of the processor ($375) and motherboard ($250 Max), what other

    hardware components included in the 2.66GHz Mac Pro, that would bring the total hardware cost to anything over $1.500 at best?

    The same is true for the 8-core 2.26GHz Mac Pro. As you can clearly see by the Nehalem pricing charts, the 2.26GHz chip is going for $378 each - in batches of 1,000. I would guess that Apple

    was able to get even better pricing than those listed.



    The new Mac Pro's are one of the worst value-to-performance ratio hardware that Apple has ever released in their high-end desktop line thus far.



    Unless everyone else (Dell, HP etc.) follows suit and sets their upcoming Xeon Nehelem workstation prices similar to Apple's HUGE mark-ups (highly unlikely in this economy), then

    Apple will be all alone in inexplicably doubling their profit margins on hardware, at their "loyal", "pro" customers expense.



    Apple could get away with price-gouging like this when they used proprietary PPC processors.

    Not anymore. We can now all see pretty much what it cost to "build a mac" from scratch, and it's not anywhere near what Apple is charging. Keep it up Apple. Talk about killing the goose here.
  • Reply 27 of 172
    hillstoneshillstones Posts: 1,490member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stevielee View Post


    Apple could get away with price-gouging like this when they used proprietary PPC processors.



    Pretty clueless, aren't you? Apple didn't price gouge with the Power Macs. In fact, the entry level Power Mac typically started at $1,499. Configure a PC with matching specs of the Mac Pro and you will see a close match in price. So if you don't like it, don't buy it. The Mac Pro is so much more of a machine than any of the prior Power Macs, and most of those cheap PC's that you refer to.
  • Reply 28 of 172
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member
    If by letting you mean not taking an army down there and blowing up Psystar's building, I suppose Apple is letting Psystar get away with Copyright INfringement. Otherwise, Apple is doing the only legal thing it can: sue Psystar.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jenkman91 View Post


    Why is Apple letting this happen?



  • Reply 29 of 172
    chris_cachris_ca Posts: 2,543member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jenkman91 View Post


    If Apple was really trying, Psystar would only be a faint memory now.



    Really? How exactly would Apple speed it up?
  • Reply 30 of 172
    macmadmacmad Posts: 62member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stevielee View Post


    And don't give me that old " If you don't like what Apple is charging - then don't but it" crap. In reality - most of us are locked into OSX as an operating system - simply because of the fact that we have already invested thousands of $$$ in OSX compatible software throughout the years.



    I don't really understand your point. Earlier in your post you say you have a 2008, entry level, 8-core 2.8GHz Penryn Mac Pro which cost you $2799, and you say it is better value than the new models with their respective pricing...



    ... so what are you moaning about? You are "locked into" the Mac OS, but locked in with a great machine and have to pay around $130 whenever that OS is upgraded by Apple. In your case, if you don't like what Apple charges for new hardware releases, you really don't have to buy it.



    Why on earth do people think that Apple should have to charge lower amounts for their product??? Of course, we'd all love it if they significantly dropped their prices, but their prices are what they are.



    Just because they price high doesn't mean another company should be allowed to break copyright laws.



    I would like an Omega watch. Currently, I can't afford one. Should I scream bloody murder about it? Should another company be allowed to rip off any of Omega patents, for example, and put out a cheap Omega clone that reaps the benefits of Omega's research and expertise?



    Don't be silly.
  • Reply 31 of 172
    [QUOTE=NasserAE;1386242]I suggest you visit Dell website and configure a machine to match Mac Pro specs. The price is within $100 of Mac Pro. Try it and tell us what you get please.[/QUOTE



    WRONG!. Dell has not released a desktop Workstation on the Nehalem platform as of yet. Only Apple has with the Mac Pro line. The one you sited that is "within $100 of Mac Pro" comes with the previous generation's "Harpertown Xeon chips which still retails for $750 or more each. Dell is NOT charging 2.5K for a Workstation with a $350 single processor, and a $60.00 rebranded Nvidia 9500GT video card. There would be a revolt if they did.



    http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Intel-Quad-C...3286.m20.l1116



    When Dell announces it's own Nehalem platform Workstation later this month, it will most likely offer much higher end processor variants (@ higher clocks) for around the same cost as the new Mac Pro's (providing a better performance-to-value ratio than Apple's), or a lower priced entry level option equivalent to Apple's 2.66GHz SP, for less than 2K . Dell, as well as other high-end Workstation maker, will be forced to reflect the actual hardware costs for the simple fact that in PC-Land, anyone can go and build for themselves the very same spec'ed out Xeon Workstations for about half the cost of Apple's entry-level pricing of $2500 (Nehalem processors included).



    Apple was the first to show it's hand in it's Xeon Nehelem pricing structure. Watch for the rest of the PC pack to take full advantage of Apple's arrogant and exclusive OSX "Tax" by seriously undercutting them by at least 30-50%.



    Read: "What is Apple smoking?"

    http://diglloyd.com/diglloyd/2009-03-blog.html
  • Reply 32 of 172
    [QUOTE=MacMad;1386291]



    "Just because they price high doesn't mean another company should be allowed to break copyright laws. "



    Well...what in the hell do you think is driving folks to seek an "alternative" machine to run OSX on in the first place? Could it be Apple's price-gouging perhaps????



    The more Apple tries to maximize it's profit margins on their hardware, the more there will be hackers, cloners, EFI dongle companies etc...





    "Don't be silly." you say?



    Silly is paying $1000 more than it's actually worth in hardware cost just because it comes embalmed in aluminum and sports a piece of fruit -with a bite out of it - logo. The bite is coming to be symbolized more and more as a "premium Apple tax bite out of our wallets".



    Psystar is just the beginning. This OSX closed loop crappola is about to be busted wide open.

    You can take your EULA and......

    My next Mac is going to be a state-of-the-art PC that will run OSX faster and cheaper than any

    Aluminum entombed, monetary sink hole.

    http://www.testfreaks.com/blog/revie...b-v1-reviewed/
  • Reply 33 of 172
    macmadmacmad Posts: 62member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stevielee View Post


    Well...what in the hell do you think is driving folks to seek an "alternative" machine to run OSX on in the first place? Could it be Apple's price-gouging perhaps????



    Silly is paying $1000 more than it's actually work because it comes embalmed in aluminum and sports a piece of fruit with a bite out of it logo. The bite is coming to be symbolized more and more as a "premium Apple bite out of our wallets".



    Psystar is just the beginning. This OSX closed loop crappola is about to be busted wide open.

    You can take your EULA and...... My next Mac is going to be a state-of-the-art PC that will run OSX faster and cheaper than any Aluminum entombed, monetary sink hole.



    Dude, you gotta get that anger under control.



    You are right when you say the high prices drive the cloners. They see a way to turn a profit without doing any real work (they are not designing their own system). But whatever the reason for cloning Mac's OS, it is probably illegal! It is (I certainly hope) breaking copyright laws.



    I don't know what job you have, but wouldn't you speak to a lawyer if someone ripped off your work and then sold it to your boss cheaper?



    If Psystar lose then it will be the end... no other company would be stupid enough to try it and face the lawsuit.



    Either way, good luck with your next Mac that is a PC. If you are happy with a PC then I am happy for you. I wish my tastes were as cheap
  • Reply 34 of 172
    [QUOTE=MacMad;1386321]Dude, you gotta get that anger under control.





    "Dude", you gotta get that little smilie thing under control!



    Aren't they actually "copyrighted" by someone?
  • Reply 35 of 172
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stevielee View Post


    Proof:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...e)&redirect=no



    The "entry level" 2.66GHz Quad core Mac Pro has a Xeon W 3500 series Chip that is for SP motherboards only, and sells for around $375.00.

    Do the math here. Outside of the processor ($375) and motherboard ($250 Max), what other

    hardware components included in the 2.66GHz Mac Pro, that would bring the total hardware cost to anything over $1.500 at best?

    The same is true for the 8-core 2.26GHz Mac Pro. As you can clearly see by the Nehalem pricing charts, the 2.26GHz chip is going for $378 each - in batches of 1,000. I would guess that Apple

    was able to get even better pricing than those listed.



    The new Mac Pro's are one of the worst value-to-performance ratio hardware that Apple has ever released in their high-end desktop line thus far.



    Unless everyone else (Dell, HP etc.) follows suit and sets their upcoming Xeon Nehelem workstation prices similar to Apple's HUGE mark-ups (highly unlikely in this economy), then

    Apple will be all alone in inexplicably doubling their profit margins on hardware, at their "loyal", "pro" customers expense.



    Apple could get away with price-gouging like this when they used proprietary PPC processors.

    Not anymore. We can now all see pretty much what it cost to "build a mac" from scratch, and it's not anywhere near what Apple is charging. Keep it up Apple. Talk about killing the goose here.



    How is a wikipage proof? For starters, it clearly states that prices may not correct. Secondly, they don't even list the entry level MP's CPU. I think you are making assumptions about a similarly named 3500.



    We really can't make any definitive decisions until we get an actual price list (like from Intel) and then we'll see Dell et al. with their workstations offerings. Granted, if you want a tower but not that much computing power then a cheaper machine will be the best solution for you.



    PS: Throwing around terms like "price gouging" make you sound like a troll. The term has a specific meaning and is a recognized illegal practice. If you really think Apple has commuted such a crime I suggest you report this to the Better Business Bureau.
  • Reply 36 of 172
    macmadmacmad Posts: 62member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stevielee View Post


    "Dude", you gotta get that little smilie thing under control!



    Aren't they actually "copyrighted" by someone?



    I'm sorry, I thought you understood that that we were talking about the rights and wrongs of the Apple/Psystar legal action.



    I will just agree with you now so that this doesn't go back and forth forever.



    You are right, Stevie. It is good that one company takes what belongs to another and sells it. We should all use PCs. (and not a single emoticon used to highlight when humour, etc, is being used)
  • Reply 37 of 172
    [QUOTE=stevielee;1386315]
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacMad View Post




    "Just because they price high doesn't mean another company should be allowed to break copyright laws. "



    Well...what in the hell do you think is driving folks to seek an "alternative" machine to run OSX on in the first place? Could it be Apple's price-gouging perhaps????



    The more Apple tries to maximize it's profit margins on their hardware, the more there will be hackers, cloners, EFI dongle companies etc...





    "Don't be silly." you say?



    Silly is paying $1000 more than it's actually work because it comes embalmed in aluminum and sports a piece of fruit with a bite out of it logo. The bite is coming to be symbolized more and more as a "premium Apple bite out of our wallets".



    Psystar is just the beginning. This OSX closed loop crappola is about to be busted wide open.

    You can take your EULA and......

    My next Mac is going to be a state-of-the-art PC that will run OSX faster and cheaper than any

    Aluminum entombed, monetary sink hole.

    http://www.testfreaks.com/blog/revie...b-v1-reviewed/





    spot on...
  • Reply 38 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacMad View Post


    I'm sorry, I thought you understood that that we were talking about the rights and wrongs of the Apple/Psystar legal action.



    I will just agree with you now so that this doesn't go back and forth forever.



    You are right, Stevie. It is good that one company takes what belongs to another and sells it. We should all use PCs. (and not a single emoticon used to highlight when humour, etc, is being used)



    they aren't taking anything..they are buying it!!!...jeez.
  • Reply 39 of 172
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stevielee View Post


    Dude, you gotta get that anger under control.





    "Dude",, you gotta get that little smilie thing under control!



    Aren't they actually "copyrighted" by someone?



    ""Dude"", you gotta learn how to use the site's markup language.
  • Reply 40 of 172
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Archipellago View Post


    they aren't taking anything..they are buying it!!!...jeez.



    The bought the retail disc, they did not buy a license to be a Mac clone reseller. Installing the software changes everything.
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