Apple picks at Psystar counterclaim as court info goes secret

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Comments

  • Reply 141 of 172
    macmadmacmad Posts: 62member
    Okay, you are thick. Truly stupid. I will leave you to your chanting.



    Ps. You have a computer and so probably have editing tools for text. (that's a hint to use the spelling and grammar checkers and, if you're bold, the dictionary too... go on, experiment with it)



    Toodlepip.
  • Reply 142 of 172
    macmadmacmad Posts: 62member
    Sorry, TenoBell, my last post was obviously for StevieWonderBoy.
  • Reply 143 of 172
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stevielee View Post


    You act like this is all a natural, and understandable phenomenon. Just another turn in the overall cycle of capitalism. All in a days work.



    It is a natural and understandable phenomenon if you understand how economics works. Recessions always happen.



    Quote:

    If authentic "darwinism" were actually in play here, the entire financial 'system' would have completely collapsed in September of last year.



    Darwinism doesn't mean the entire financial system needs to collapse anymore than the entire ecological system needs to collapse simply because a large number of animal species goes extinct.



    Quote:

    Somehow, I get the feeling that you haven't felt any major personal effects of this tanking economy. Your analysis seems abstract, distant, and detached from real consequences.



    In fact I have, my industry has been effected and I've been working less than I did last year.



    Quote:

    How about all the people who didn't make bad "choices", but still suffer by losing the equity in their homes, or their retirement savings.? How do you calmly explain to them that this recession (Depression?), is a "good economic device", that is "necessary" for a "healthy economy" in some far off "future"?



    Its unfortunate that some people are badly effected in economic downturns through no fault of their own. That does not change the fact that recessions are apart of the natural economic cycle. They always happen, we always recover, and people always rebuild.
  • Reply 144 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacMad View Post


    Sorry, TenoBell, my last post was obviously for StevieWonderBoy.





    Oppsie-doodle MadMac. Did you make a boo-boo?

    Looks like you could use a little post editing yourself.



    "StevieWonderBoy"? Did you go and make that big "cliched" word up all by your MadMac self?

    You are a clever one aren't you?



    Psystar. Psystar, Psy.....
  • Reply 145 of 172
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stevielee View Post


    So say you. But even some of the biggest names in 'capitalism' are saying that this evolving financial debacle is going to be much, much the worst that we have EVER experienced.



    I call BS.



    Who are these "biggest names"?



    Warren Buffet is still buying. Bernanke says that we have problems, but he's never made statements like that.



    Just who is claiming that this is going to be "much much the worst that we have EVER experienced"? (that is, worse than the 1930s, for example)



    Oh, and btw, if capitalism is ended, what is it going to be replaced with? Virtually every successful country in the world has been capitalist to a greater or lesser extent. The European economies are based on capitalism. Russia became more successful as it allowed more elements of capitalism to take over. As it has moved away from capitalism, it has become less successful. Even China became successful only after it started to allow capitalism to enter.
  • Reply 146 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    It is a natural and understandable phenomenon if you understand how economics works. Recessions always happen.

    Darwinism doesn't mean the entire financial system needs to collapse anymore than the entire ecological system needs to collapse simply because a large number of animal species goes extinct.



    In fact I have, my industry has been effected and I've been working less than I did last year.



    Its unfortunate that some people are badly effected in economic downturns through no fault of their own. That does not change the fact that recessions are apart of the natural economic cycle. They always happen, we always recover, and people always rebuild.



    So the giant, global Ponzi scam that has been afoot for the last decade or so is to be understood as "how economics works"?



    Ah, but you didn't say 'conditional' Darwinsim (oxymoronic). It's quite a leap to assign the natural science of evolution to a man made, economic system that does not even recognize nature as dominant, or relevant. In fact, it it pitting in most cases as directly at odds with it.

    But in the meantime ( the next few years), grin and bear folks because it's just another "natural economic cycle". Nothing to worry about. We'll all be just fine in the long run.



    Oh my!
  • Reply 147 of 172
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    Just who is claiming that this is going to be "much much the worst that we have EVER experienced"? (that is, worse than the 1930s, for example)



    I'll claim it! All US markets will fall to zero on July 4th, which will provoke a planned invasion in the US. Basically like Red Dawn, except change up the Cubans for Chinese and there will be no Patrick Swayze to save the day.
  • Reply 148 of 172
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HammerofTruth View Post


    Simple, people want something for nothing and now it's even harder to sell a premium product over something that barely works. Psystar is in effect allowing theft, but Apple is in a more difficult situation now that the economy is in the crapper and that more and more people are shunning Vista.



    And, yet, Apple's profits continue to grow. And up until the current quarter, even sales continued to grow.



    Or maybe you've forgotten that Apple's sales continued to grow throughout most of 2008 - even after the recession had already gotten pretty large.



    There is absolutely no evidence that the recent couple of months are a long term trend or anything that affects Apple's future in any real way.
  • Reply 149 of 172
    Yep, I think you've got it just about right there....but you forgot to mention that like Swayze, there may also be no SJ to save the day by the 4th..
  • Reply 150 of 172
    halvrihalvri Posts: 146member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stevielee View Post


    Ah, yes. Always, always resort to the Big C word when all else fails.



    My "doom and gloom scenarios" as you call them, aren't really "scenarios" at all. There are facts that are happening on the ground right now - as I write this.

    I can understand the reluctance to face the worst of it, but denial of the obvious is what got us into this financial mess in the first place.



    Pick up any major business magazine, newspapers, and what I'm saying here is pretty much in synch with what they are saying - with the exception of CNBC, that is.



    Jon Stewart is making very funny hay of CNBC's"cheerleading" reporting that the economy was going to turn around very soon, and that now was a good time to "get back into the market".



    High, late capitalism, as we know it is over. Where do we go from here? I really don't know. But i do know that in the near term, it's going to be next to impossible to try and pry free what's left of the economy, from the death-grip clutches of the failed corporate oligarchy. We are going to have to fight for everything for here on.



    Yes, the big C word, as you seem to be trending towards Communism being the answer, so I felt it needed to be commented on. I'm not afraid of Communism, but it simply won't work.



    And as to the big financial commentators, these are people who are trained to analyze everything on a day-by-day basis and few, if any of them, have any real ability to make predictions about the future. Plus, most of them wouldn't make objective observations anyway, because they're owned by these evil corporations you hate so much. Just look at the reviews CNET gives Apple's stuff: they rate it highly, but tear it to shreds in their reviews. Why? Because their parent company is funded by Microsoft. And with all do respect, Jim Cramer was a dumbass long before Jon Stewart pointed that fact out.



    I am by no means denying that the worst of this economic decline is over, but you are one of the most pessimistic people I have come across. Couple with this with the fact that you have you respect for copyright (which tells me you've never run a business) and I just don't get how you expect me to believe you have a realistic interpretation of what's going on right now.
  • Reply 151 of 172
    davidwdavidw Posts: 971member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Archipellago View Post


    more waffle but just to address the last point.



    The historic defence for the ridiculous hardware is that it subsidises the OS..you seem to be implying something different.





    Apple has put out 6 version of OSX (from X.0 to X.5) since 2000. They sold about 2 million retail copies of each version, on average. At about $130 per copy and 12 million copies sold, that's about 1.5 Billion dollars of revenue (not profit) over a period of 9 years. It cost Apple $400 million just to buy out NeXt for the basic framework of OSX. One can safely assume that Apple did not even come close to recovering the cost to develop and support OSX, all these years, by selling retail copies of it. It's the sale of hardware (with OSX included) that covers that cost.



    So does Apple make a profit by selling stand alone OSX? Yes. Only because the profit from the sale of hardware paid for most of it's developement. That would include the profit made on the Mac that the owner is now "upgrading" to a newer version of OSX. But will the profit Apple make by selling retail OSX cover the cost of the delvelopement for the next OSX? No. Apple will still need to support any future developement of the next OSX with hardware sale.



    No one is saying that Apple is taking a loss by selling retail copies of OSX. Were saying that the sale of retail copies of OSX alone will not cover the cost to delvelop it and any future developement. The developement cost has to be supported with hardware sales.



    And for sure the $130 cost will not cover the added cost if Apple had to support a bunch of differently configured generic PC.
  • Reply 152 of 172
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    The Ponzi schemes have nothing directly to do with the world economic problems. They are further evidence of the symptomatic problems that have occurred from the erosion of government oversight, deregulation did directly help lead us to our current economic problems.



    I'm not sure you understand the point of Darwinism. I used the broad definition of Darwinism, the weak die off so that the strong survive and thrive. That is was recessions do to businesses. The point of all of this whether its nature or economics is for the benefit of the entire system, not for the system to collapse and die.







    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stevielee View Post


    So the giant, global Ponzi scam that has been afoot for the last decade or so is to be understood as "how economics works"?



    Ah, but you didn't say 'conditional' Darwinsim (oxymoronic). It's quite a leap to assign the natural science of evolution to a man made, economic system that does not even recognize nature as dominant, or relevant. In fact, it it pitting in most cases as directly at odds with it.



  • Reply 153 of 172
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    The Ponzi schemes have nothing directly to do with the world economic problems. They are further evidence of the symptomatic problems that have occurred from the erosion of government oversight, deregulation did directly help lead us to our current economic problems. .



    While the Ponzi schemes may have had little DIRECT impact, they have had a pretty significant impact. The current crisis is, as much as anything, a crisis of confidence. The ease with which these Ponzi schemes were perpetrated and maintained had a huge impact on investors' confidence in the system.
  • Reply 154 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    I call BS.



    Who are these "biggest names"?



    Warren Buffet is still buying. Bernanke says that we have problems, but he's never made statements like that.



    Just who is claiming that this is going to be "much much the worst that we have EVER experienced"? (that is, worse than the 1930s, for example)



    Oh, and btw, if capitalism is ended, what is it going to be replaced with? Virtually every successful country in the world has been capitalist to a greater or lesser extent. The European economies are based on capitalism. Russia became more successful as it allowed more elements of capitalism to take over. As it has moved away from capitalism, it has become less successful. Even China became successful only after it started to allow capitalism to enter.



    Warren Buffet hedge fund has lost nearly 70% of it's value from last year. He has to continue buying (gambling) hoping to stave off his own bankruptcy. Bernanke is NEVER going to make a statement like that if he want to stay on as head of the Fed. Besides, his Fed helped fuel this entire fiasco - going back to Greenspan.



    And to your calling me on BS, I start with Greenpan's predecessor: Paul Volker.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090220/...conomy_volcker

    Then we go to George Soros

    Then a comparative graph of 1929 and now:

    http://socialize.morningstar.com/New...4/2627563.aspx

    http://www.smartmoney.com/Investing/...at-Depression/

    p://www.businessinsider.com/henry-blodget-great-crash-of-2008-now-worse-than-great-crash-of-1929-2009-3



    etc, etc, etc.



    Whatever replaces this current form of 'Capitalism', will be some kind of hybrid of capitalism, and socialism...
  • Reply 155 of 172
    davidwdavidw Posts: 971member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cathul View Post


    I did exactly that. I booted from an boot-132 disk and changed the disks when the boot-prompt of cameleon appeared. from that moment on i only used the retail leopard disk i bought at amazon for the full retail price (beside the Mac Mini that i bought for real work). I didn't change any piece of software on that retail disk or on the installed system and therefor i didn't violate any copyright restrictions. I didn't change the software, i only used a bootloader that is capable of booting the retail disk of OSX without touching any files on the dvd or harddisk. I do that just for the fun of it, just to see what's possible.



    Do i support Psystar? Hell no, but i cannot stand anyone saying you need to hack OSX to install it on a PC while in fact you only need an appropriate bootloader.



    So, copyright violations may not apply if Psystar doesn't need to "hack" OSX to run on their machines, but uses an appropriate (and perfectly legal) bootloader.



    Over here in germany Apple would've lost the case if it was this way, just because you don't need a reseller contract with Apple to resell their software over here, so i don't really care what the courts decision on this case will be as it doesn't apply to germany at all. Apple would've to sue them in germany, too to settle down the case for germany as well.

    Btw., there is a germany company selling PCs together with OSX, too and they didn't get sued until now.



    Copyright protection on software is a little different than other IP in that there must be some provision for making copies of it. That's because most software must be copied into a HD and memory before you can use it. Without this provision, you would be violating Copyright laws every time you load the software on to your computer. Thus the copy of the software in your HD is also protected by Copyright laws. Whether that copy of OSX you loaded on to a PC, with the help of the "boot-123" disk, is altered in such a way that it violates any Copyright laws, I don't know.



    There is a provision in Copyright laws that allows for an "adaptive" copy of a software. Whereby you are allowed to "adapt" a copyrighted software, that is in your HD, to make it work on your machine. But the catch is that you can not sell or give away this "adaptive" copy when you sell your machine. Even if you include a copy of the original software. It (the "adaptive" copy) must be destroyed once you give up ownership of the original software or the machine it's on. Unless you get permission from the owner of the Copyrighted software that it was "derived" from. Apple will most likely not care if you sell a Mac with an "adaptive" version of OSX on it. But Apple doesn't have to give you permission (or grant you a license) to sell a PC with an "adaptive" version of OSX on it.



    Now the only way Psysar can stay in business is if they sell PC's with OSX already loaded on it. Since they can't sell any PC with OSX on it (regardless of how they got it to load) without violating some part of Copyright laws, they will be out of business soon enough.
  • Reply 156 of 172
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stevielee View Post


    Warren Buffet hedge fund has lost nearly 70% of it's value from last year. He has to continue buying (gambling) hoping to stave off his own bankruptcy. Bernanke is NEVER going to make a statement like that if he want to stay on as head of the Fed. Besides, his Fed helped fuel this entire fiasco - going back to Greenspan.



    And to your calling me on BS, I start with Greenpan's predecessor: Paul Volker.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090220/...conomy_volcker

    Then we go to George Soros

    Then a comparative graph of 1929 and now:

    http://socialize.morningstar.com/New...4/2627563.aspx

    http://www.smartmoney.com/Investing/...at-Depression/

    p://www.businessinsider.com/henry-blodget-great-crash-of-2008-now-worse-than-great-crash-of-1929-2009-3



    etc, etc, etc.



    Whatever replaces this current form of 'Capitalism', will be some kind of hybrid of capitalism, and socialism...



    Hmm....



    I don't see anything in any of those which supports your statement that the biggest names in economics claim that this recession is going to be worse than anything we've ever seen. You made it up.



    You're dreaming if you think Buffet is in any danger of bankruptcy. You'll note that he's extremely well known for extraordinarily low levels of debt. His funds could drop by 90% from the current level and he STILL wouldn't be in danger of bankruptcy.



    As for the rest, you can show that AS OF TODAY, the market fell faster than the first months of the great depression. How does it follow that the rest of this recession will continue to fare worse? By the mid-30s, the indexes had dropped 89%. Care to point to a single expert who says that this recession will be significantly worse than that? After all, that is what you claimed. There's not a single one who claimed anything even remotely close to that.



    Or maybe Henry Blodgett is 'the biggest names in finance'. ROTFLMAO.



    Why don't you stick to a topic you know something about? It's clearly not economics.
  • Reply 157 of 172
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cathul View Post


    I did exactly that. I booted from an boot-132 disk and changed the disks when the boot-prompt of cameleon appeared. from that moment on i only used the retail leopard disk i bought at amazon for the full retail price (beside the Mac Mini that i bought for real work). I didn't change any piece of software on that retail disk or on the installed system and therefor i didn't violate any copyright restrictions. I didn't change the software, i only used a bootloader that is capable of booting the retail disk of OSX without touching any files on the dvd or harddisk. I do that just for the fun of it, just to see what's possible.



    Then you didn't boot from the OS X disk, did you?



    You used something which bypassed the startup software on the disk, in clear violation of DMCA.



    You lose.
  • Reply 158 of 172
    piotpiot Posts: 1,346member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Archipellago View Post


    44% of their revenue?? do you mean turnover (income) or profit??



    If you don't know what it means why are you even discussing it?



    Quote:

    items with an ASP of $1000 must contribute more to turnover than ipods at $199.



    And more stupid!





    Quote:

    just being objective...sorry it offends you.



    I am not offended. Maybe a little irritated.

    You are being far from objective.

    I don't believe that you are sorry at all.
  • Reply 159 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    Hmm....



    I don't see anything in any of those which supports your statement that the biggest names in economics claim that this recession is going to be worse than anything we've ever seen. You made it up.



    You're dreaming if you think Buffet is in any danger of bankruptcy. You'll note that he's extremely well known for extraordinarily low levels of debt. His funds could drop by 90% from the current level and he STILL wouldn't be in danger of bankruptcy.



    As for the rest, you can show that AS OF TODAY, the market fell faster than the first months of the great depression. How does it follow that the rest of this recession will continue to fare worse? By the mid-30s, the indexes had dropped 89%. Care to point to a single expert who says that this recession will be significantly worse than that? After all, that is what you claimed. There's not a single one who claimed anything even remotely close to that.



    Or maybe Henry Blodgett is 'the biggest names in finance'. ROTFLMAO.



    Why don't you stick to a topic you know something about? It's clearly not economics.





    The "indexes" have dropped nearly 55% per cent since October 9, 2007, when the Dow closed on a high of 14,164. "AS OF TODAY" that index is at 6,547. That dramatic decline happened in just 16 short months. And it's still going down several hundred points a week, with no bottom in sight. At this pace, and comparing it with the 1929 timeline, we could very well hit 75- 85% in overall declines in the next 12-16 months - far faster than it took back the 30"s. But hey, "I just making this all that up" according to you. The indexes are only playing dead right now. It's going to bounce back any day now...really it is. Mr Buffet said it would...



    After all the major bank finally are nationalized by the government this spring or summer, along with close to 40% of all mortgages being underwater, or when the official unemployment rate goes well above 15% (really over 25% in pre- 1980's calculations), or the Fed's non-stop printing presses eventually cause unsustainable hyper-inflation, then will you "free market" stalwarts finally get the fact that we are indeed seriously f***ed?



    And you are telling me to stick to a topic I know something about..like you have any kind of a clue?
  • Reply 160 of 172
    cathulcathul Posts: 18member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    Then you didn't boot from the OS X disk, did you?



    You used something which bypassed the startup software on the disk, in clear violation of DMCA.



    You lose.



    How can one violate the DMCA if one doesn't live in the US or is not an US citizen?

    You should realize that US laws do not necessarily apply to the whole world.
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