Apple picks at Psystar counterclaim as court info goes secret

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  • Reply 121 of 172
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    No one can really give a prophetic prediction on how bad it will get because no one can see the future. At worst economists have estimated it could get much worse if the proper steps are not taken, at the same time economists have said we can recover from this recession.



    This orgy of greed is largely over. The institutions who most benefited from it are all bankrupt and are either out of business or on the edge of solvency. Its unlikely these big troubled banks will continue. They will go out of business, their management will be changed and things will be very different over the next couple of years.



    The truth is that the FDIC has not had to pay a great deal of money to cover deposits and saving accounts. They have been very proactive and successful in seizing failed banks and selling them to healthy banks.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stevielee View Post


    So say you. But even some of the biggest names in 'capitalism' are saying that this evolving financial debacle is going to be much, much the worst that we have EVER experienced.

    You are talking like this round of 'greed gone wild' is already over and therefor are directly and quantitatively comparable to anything that occurred in the past. That is a huge error on your part. We are just in the opening act, of a multi-act economic drama. We haven't even gotten to intermission and already you're submitting your reviews, and historical comparatives. Just wait until act II, scene IV - when foundational institution like one of our last economic firewalls: the FDIC, are completely breached and busted down (happening as we speak).



  • Reply 122 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Halvri View Post


    Yes, and most of them are saying that because they're begging for a government bailout and think its necessary to do so in order to argue their financial worth.





    Really? You really believe what you just posted?



    The worldwide CDS and derivatives market WAS recently valued at $683.7 trillion dollars - more than 10 times the GDP of every country on earth. All this funny money was created out of thin, or non-existent air. Try blowing that ballon back up to even a fraction of what they claimed it was worth before the big, bad reality of accelerating deflation took hold.



    http://www.twnside.org.sg/title2/fin...ce20081106.htm



    The "Robber Barons" of the early 20th century were rank amateurs in relation to this new breed of global corporate Ponzi-ist.



    And all of the capitalist kings horse, and all of the kings richest men, will never, ever re-inflated the - something from absolutely nothing - ballon again.



    The Global Financial, and Economic structure is Mucho F****D. No candy coating will change that FACT.....
  • Reply 123 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    No one can really give a prophetic prediction on how bad it will get because no one can see the future. At worst economists have estimated it could get much worse if the proper steps are not taken, at the same time economists have said we can recover from this recession.



    This orgy of greed is largely over. The institutions who most benefited from it are all bankrupt and are either out of business or on the edge of solvency. Its unlikely these big troubled banks will continue. They will go out of business, their management will be changed and things will be very different over the next couple of years.



    The truth is that the FDIC has not had to pay a great deal of money to cover deposits and saving accounts. They have been very proactive and successful in seizing failed banks and selling them to healthy banks.



    You say that "no one can really give prophetic prediction", but then you go and do just that.



    And then you also go on to state the mindblowingly inaccurate assumption that "the orgy of greed is largely over". Are you for real? Are you purposely not paying any attention to what IS actually taking place on Wall Street and the Banking Sector??? Sorrry to be the one to break it to you, but the is "orgy of greed" not over by a long shot. It's just shifted into pillaging our government coffers (Bailouts..AKA Corporate Wellfare) until they are bled dry of every last public penny and are left in the very same position as the banks are in right now - completely INSOLVENT.



    Finally, the actual "truth" is that the FDIC itself could be INSOLVENT by the end of this year. I'm not pulling this out of thin air...this is the evolving and potentially devastating economic reality. Do the math. There isn't enough money in the entire Treasury to pay down even a fraction of what is owed by the US Banks and Financial institutions,. And that's not even taking into account the financial inter-connectivity of the rest of the Worlds rapidly imploding economies.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=alsJZqIFuN3k



    Where are you getting your pollyanna perspectives from? Surely not from any reality based sources...
  • Reply 124 of 172
    macmadmacmad Posts: 62member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stevielee View Post


    And all of the capitalist kings horse, and all of the kings richest men, will never, ever re-inflated the - something from absolutely nothing - ballon again.



    What are you babbling on about, Tyler Durden?



    "Kings horse"?



    Do you mean "king's" and "horses"? Or are you talking about lots of kings owning one horse. What are the horses about, anyway?



    And where does a "ballon" come in? Are you really talking about architecture or are you talking about "Balloons"? And where do balloons fit in to this odd little ditty?



    The harder you try to sound clever, the more psyTARD you sound.



    Please shut up.
  • Reply 125 of 172
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stevielee View Post


    You say that "no one can really give prophetic prediction", but then you go and do just that.



    I said no one can accurately predict how bad it will get. To predict that more banks will fail is pretty well known and a fairly easy prediction to make.



    Quote:

    And then you go on to state the mindblowingly inaccurate assumption that "the orgy of greed is largely over". Are you for real? It's not over by a long shot. It's just shifted into hosing our government coffers until they are in the same position as the banks are now - INSOLVENT.



    Our government filling in for lost economic productivity. The money the government invests is helping people who have lost jobs and helping to keep more companies from failing and causing people to loose jobs.



    Quote:

    Finally, the actual "truth" is that the FDIC itself could be INSOLVENT by the end of this years. I'm not pulling this out of thin air...this is the upcoming reality. Do the math. there isn't enough money in the entire Treasury to pay down even a fraction of what is owed by the Banks and Financial institutions.



    That was an overly alarmist article that fuels your overly alarmist sentiments. The FDIC will never be insolvent. It may use up its fund that comes from banks. If that happens it gains money from the US treasury.



    No one knows if the FDIC will use up its fund, all of this is hypothetical based on the number of banks that may fail and cannot be sold to healthy banks.





    Quote:

    Where are you getting your pollyanna perspectives from? Surely not from any reality based sources...



    You are looking at worst case scenarios and predicting that is what is going to happen. I'm simply saying that is the worst case scenario and the future more than likely will not happen that way.
  • Reply 126 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacMad View Post


    What are you babbling on about, Tyler Durden?



    "Kings horse"?



    Do you mean "king's" and "horses"? Or are you talking about lots of kings owning one horse. What are the horses about, anyway?



    And where does a "ballon" come in? Are you really talking about architecture or are you talking about "Balloons"? And where do balloons fit in to this odd little ditty?



    The harder you try to sound clever, the more psyTARD you sound.



    Please shut up.



    I absolutely love that I P*** Apple "tards" like you off..



    Psystar, Psystar, Psy.......
  • Reply 127 of 172
    halvrihalvri Posts: 146member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stevielee View Post


    Really? You really believe what you just posted?



    The worldwide CDS and derivatives market WAS recently valued at $683.7 trillion dollars - more than 10 times the GDP of every country on earth. All this funny money was created out of thin, or non-existent air. Try blowing that ballon back up to even a fraction of what they claimed it was worth before the big, bad reality of accelerating deflation took hold.



    http://www.twnside.org.sg/title2/fin...ce20081106.htm



    The "Robber Barons" of the early 20th century were rank amateurs in relation to this new breed of global corporate Ponzi-ist.



    And all of the capitalist kings horse, and all of the kings richest men, will never, ever re-inflated the - something from absolutely nothing - ballon again.



    The Global Financial, and Economic structure is Mucho F****D. No candy coating will change that FACT.....



    My point was that "the biggest names" in capitalism, which, to me, sounded like you were talking about large corporations, principally banks, are simply moaning because they want government bailouts, whether they need them or not.



    Also, I have no idea who mentioned the 20's, because I only did so in passing. Regardless, though, as I and several others have said, the ultimate problem is deregulation. If the markets are properly and efficiently regulated, such schemes are substantially less likely to occur (though, I think you grossly exaggerate their current existence).



    Now, what exactly is your plan to fix this? After all, if you can complain, it must surely be because you have some idea how to fix this problem, not just because you like to launch off self-serving prognostications. Cause Communism won't fix this problem and full-on socialism would just make everything worse.



    Seriously, though, I'm truly excited to hear your doom and gloom scenarios and how some previously failed economic system can fix them.
  • Reply 128 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    I said no one can accurately predict how bad it will get. To predict that more banks will fail is pretty well known and a fairly easy prediction to make.







    Our government filling in for lost economic productivity. The money the government invests is helping people who have lost jobs and helping to keep more companies from failing and causing people to loose jobs.







    That was an overly alarmist article that fuels your overly alarmist sentiments. The FDIC will never be insolvent. It may use up its fund that comes from banks. If that happens it gains money from the US treasury.



    No one knows if the FDIC will use up its fund, all of this is hypothetical based on the number of banks that may fail and cannot be sold to healthy banks.









    You are looking at worst case scenarios and predicting that is what is going to happen. I'm simply saying that is the worst case scenario and the future more than likely will not happen that way.





    I'm looking at what IS actually happening economically. Believe what you want to believe, but you're in for one hell of a surprise..
  • Reply 129 of 172
    macmadmacmad Posts: 62member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stevielee View Post


    I absolutely love that I P*** Apple "tard" like you off..



    ... once again you have written something that makes absolutely no sense at all. Congratulations. Are you writing in code or something?



    Do you mean "an" Apple Tard? Or did you mean to write "Tards"...



    ... or do you mean anything at all? One wonders.
  • Reply 130 of 172
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    What is happening is a deep world wide economic contraction. Recessions are actually a good economic device, its necessary to have a recession to have a healthy economy. Recessions clear out poorly performing companies and bad debt. Its like darwinism.



    Our current recession is a reaction to extremely bad choices and gambles that were able to multiply and grow for too long. In one way or another those bad choices need to be dealt with and cleaned up for a healthy economy to progress.



    In the long run no one knows exactly what is going to happen. You seem to be fully invested in the whole system burning down.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stevielee View Post


    I'm looking at what IS actually happening economically. Believe what you want to believe, but you're in for one hell of a surprise..



  • Reply 131 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Halvri View Post


    My point was that "the biggest names" in capitalism, which, to me, sounded like you were talking about large corporations, principally banks, are simply moaning because they want government bailouts, whether they need them or not.



    Also, I have no idea who mentioned the 20's, because I only did so in passing. Regardless, though, as I and several others have said, the ultimate problem is deregulation. If the markets are properly and efficiently regulated, such schemes are substantially less likely to occur (though, I think you grossly exaggerate their current existence).



    Now, what exactly is your plan to fix this? After all, if you can complain, it must surely be because you have some idea how to fix this problem, not just because you like to launch off self-serving prognostications. Cause Communism won't fix this problem and full-on socialism would just make everything worse.



    Seriously, though, I'm truly excited to hear your doom and gloom scenarios and how some previously failed economic system can fix them.



    Ah, yes. Always, always resort to the Big C word when all else fails.



    My "doom and gloom scenarios" as you call them, aren't really "scenarios" at all. There are facts that are happening on the ground right now - as I write this.

    I can understand the reluctance to face the worst of it, but denial of the obvious is what got us into this financial mess in the first place.



    Pick up any major business magazine, newspapers, and what I'm saying here is pretty much in synch with what they are saying - with the exception of CNBC, that is.



    Jon Stewart is making very funny hay of CNBC's"cheerleading" reporting that the economy was going to turn around very soon, and that now was a good time to "get back into the market".



    High, late capitalism, as we know it is over. Where do we go from here? I really don't know. But i do know that in the near term, it's going to be next to impossible to try and pry free what's left of the economy, from the death-grip clutches of the failed corporate oligarchy. We are going to have to fight for everything for here on.
  • Reply 132 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacMad View Post


    ... once again you have written something that makes absolutely no sense at all. Congratulations. Are you writing in code or something?



    Do you mean "an" Apple Tard? Or did you mean to write "Tards"...



    ... or do you mean anything at all? One wonders.



    ....and once again, you bleat on about nothing, or did you mean "something", or "some" "thing"?

    I shudder to think that you may actually "wonder".



    Psystar, Psystar, Psy.......
  • Reply 133 of 172
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    I bet you had your basement stocked with canned food and bottled water on December 31st, 1999.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stevielee View Post


    High, late capitalism, as we know it is over. Where do we go from here? I really don't know. But i do know that in the near term, it's going to be next to impossible to try and pry free what's left of the economy, from the death-grip clutches of the failed corporate oligarchy. We are going to have to fight for everything for here on.



  • Reply 134 of 172
    macmadmacmad Posts: 62member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stevielee View Post


    ....and once again, you bleat on about nothing, or did you mean "something", or "some" "thing"?

    I shudder to think that you may actually "wonder".



    Psystar, Psystar, Psy.......



    I am bleating on about your inability to write a line that makes sense. "I shudder to think"... there you go again with the clichés.



    Your entire posts are about nothing. You understand copyright issues about as well as you do economics. Is it fun living in your nuclear bunker somewhere? I think the canned peaches you're eating might have gone off.
  • Reply 135 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    What is happening is a deep world wide economic contraction. Recessions are actually a good economic device, its necessary to have a recession to have a healthy economy. Recessions clear out poorly performing companies and bad debt. Its like darwinism.



    Our current recession is a reaction to extremely bad choices and gambles that were able to multiply and grow for too long. In one way or another those bad choices need to be dealt with and cleaned up for a healthy economy to progress.



    In the long run no one knows exactly what is going to happen. You seem to be fully invested in the whole system burning down.





    Recessions like this one are also a good way to "clear out" the US Treasury.



    You act like this is all a natural, and understandable phenomenon. Just another turn in the overall cycle of capitalism. All in a days work..



    If authentic "darwinism" were actually in play here, the entire financial 'system' would have completely collapsed in September of last year.



    Somehow, I get the feeling that you haven't felt any major personal effects of this tanking economy. Your analysis seems abstract, distant, and detached from real consequences .



    How about all the people who didn't make bad "choices", but still suffer by losing the equity in their homes, or their retirement savings.? How do you calmly explain to them that this recession (Depression?), is a "good economic device", that is "necessary" for a "healthy economy" in some far off "future"?



    Marie Antoinette has nothing over on you...
  • Reply 136 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    Just what in the world does that have to do with the discussion?



    Lots of people can't afford to buy 10 carat diamond rings, either. Does that mean it should be legal to steal diamonds from deBeers?



    Apple has a business plan and seems to be doing quite well. They don't need to justify their prices to you or to anyone else except the shareholders. And the shareholders have done quite well over the past 5 years.



    In any event, the fact that Apple's products are too expensive for some people isn't justification for stealing their intellectual property.







    I'll tell you what - you go open a business book and learn the difference between revenue, turnover, income, and profit and then come back. Maybe someone will then have a reason to take you seriously. Until then, you're a waste of electrons. Someone who doesn't know the difference between revenue and profit has no business telling a successful multibillion dollar company how it should be run.



    "Just what in the world does that have to do with the discussion?"



    Simple, people want something for nothing and now it's even harder to sell a premium product over something that barely works. Psystar is in effect allowing theft, but Apple is in a more difficult situation now that the economy is in the crapper and that more and more people are shunning Vista. They are buying PCs and netbooks and hacking them illegally to run Mac OSX. That should tell you that people want a Mac, but they don't want to pay for it. Until Apple either, makes something affordable on the same field as Psystar, or makes the ecosystem so closed that that it would be impossible to hack a generic PC to run OSX, they will continue to do this. This was the can of worms it opened when it went X86. They knew it, that's why they milked the PPC platform as long as they could. Today with the rumors of a top secret netbook in the works, would be their answer to Psystar and all the people who make and sell hackintoshes. Make them irrelevant.



    You are looking at this the same way the record companies looked at Napster. It was out and out theft, and it was illegal, but even after they were shut down, stealing music was the norm. Until iTunes made buying music easy and affordable. Apple has a double edged sword. They created a huge buzz with the iPod and the iPhone. They made people who either never heard of Apple or hated them, want their products. Most of them bought Macs, a lot of them shunned them until they heard Apple went X86 and figured out how to hack the dev discs. The rest was history. Psystar is backed by a lot of "John Does" with deep pockets. Why? Because they saw the halo effect the iPod and iPhone had and the cash it generated. Meanwhile their horse they backed dropped dead at the gate with Vista, or Project "Mohave" or whatever piece of excrement it's called. So now you are seeing a showdown between some powerful entities. Why else would it go secret? What so secret about hacking the OS to run on a PC?

    All the info is available on several websites and they're not shut down by Apple legal? Why? I mean who has the money to bankroll Psystar's Lawyers? They sure don't. Apple knows this and is digging away. By the latter part of the year all of this will come to light and you will see which computer manufacters would stoop so low as to try to steal OSX and use a small company to test Apple's legal rights.
  • Reply 137 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacMad View Post


    I am bleating on about your inability to write a line that makes sense. "I shudder to think"... there you go again with the clichés.



    Your entire posts are about nothing. You understand copyright issues about as well as you do economics. Is it fun living in your nuclear bunker somewhere? I think the canned peaches you're eating might have gone off.





    So why do you continue to respond to "nothing"? Must be something!



    From one hack to another: I got "shudder to think" the same place you got your ..."nuclear bunker", and "canned peaches" cliches.



    Psystar, Psystar, Psy......
  • Reply 138 of 172
    macmadmacmad Posts: 62member
    "Nuclear bunker" isn't a cliche. Nor is "canned peaches".
  • Reply 139 of 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacMad View Post


    "Nuclear bunker" isn't a cliche. Nor is "canned peaches".



    Ya they are..especially in the context you used them in. More importantly, that little smiley thing that you appropriated for the end of your....whatever, IS definitely a "cliche".



    Psystar, Psystar, Psy.......
  • Reply 140 of 172
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Of the roughly 260 million computers sold in 2008, 11 million sold were netbooks. Netbooks have not had a big effect on the overall computer market.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HammerofTruth View Post


    Simple, people want something for nothing and now it's even harder to sell a premium product over something that barely works. Psystar is in effect allowing theft, but Apple is in a more difficult situation now that the economy is in the crapper and that more and more people are shunning Vista. They are buying PCs and netbooks and hacking them illegally to run Mac OSX. That should tell you that people want a Mac, but they don't want to pay for it.



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