To my mind, a cheap and low spec laptop is just a cheap and low spec laptop, not a new category of device. I think many (non-gaming) customers are realising that they don't get much ROI from their PC purchases and this economy has focused peoples' minds a bit. So they are just going for cheap, manufacturers are engaged in a race to the bottom in terms of profits and there's nothing here for Apple when they are selling macbooks like hot cakes.
I'm talking about consumer sales. Enterprise sales are totally different. I spent years at a large enterprise software company and though I was not in sales, I'm familiar with the process.
By "flooding the zone" I simply meant having an excessive number of price points for basically the same product.
If you can find any technical or usability justification for four consumer editions of Vista, you must know something I don't. The feature sets are completely arbitrary.
That is something I fully agree with you on. It is all about price and little to do with features.
But I would argue that is still a solid practice, it is one that is used in consumer items all the time. How many different TV's do Samsung sell? Are they really all that different? Somebody goes into a store to buy the $999 TV they saw advertised on TV and end up walking out with the $1399 TV they saw in the shop.
Are you really saying Steve Jobs would just sell them the $999 TV and be happy?
It is a standard way of selling and is designed to extract the most amount of cash from customers. As a business Microsoft are doing the right thing and I am confused as to why anybody would think it was anything but.
After all comparing the price of OSX to Windows is odd, Windows is really the only product that Microsoft sell into the consumer PC space.
Surely Apple are doing exactly the same thing with having different versions of Mac's? If I walk into an Apple store today to buy a $599 Mac Mini do you not think that Apple actually want me to walk out with a Mac Pro?
To the OP, I still do not understand why four different versions of Windows is confusing to consumers when 8 different versions of a MacBook are not! After all, just like the different Windows versions they are only very slightly different and yet all have different prices.
In fact, thinking about that why are we even having this ridiculous discussion?
See the kindle is a different product, it is a reading device and not an input device. The form factor is perfect for something that does not require much interactive (bar turning a page).
People do not buy netbooks to hold them up in front of their face and read things off, they buy netbooks to take their most used apps on the road with them easily.
...
My whole point is that it just does not make any logical sense as a product, it does not really meet a demand or a need. Good products always meet a need. A traditional netbook from Apple will meet a need because there are lots of people buying netbooks and many of them might well buy one running OSX.
Well I think it can make sense provided that reasonable input is available. The iPhone keyboard in landscape mode is not so bad for replying to e-mail; a keyboard twice as big would actually be fairly practical.
So far as I can tell, the only need netbooks meet is price, rather than size. Apple is not interested in bottom feeding (or hasn't been so far), and frankly I don't think their business model, and especially their US-based R&D, can be supported by a cheap netbook. Expensive ultraportables with tiny keyboards and screens have been around for some time, but have always been a niche, or a Japan thing.
The only thing that's changed is that now they are cheap. So the "need" is price. If Apple wants to reach into lower price segments of the market their easiest bet is to lower the price of the plastic MacBook even further, which should be easy enough given current component costs.
The pad concept which you dismiss is interesting. Yes, it would be more of a reader / viewer / browser device than an input device, but it would replace books and magazines while also giving you computer features such as browsing, e-mail, and document viewing and minor editing. It would also be a portable HD video player and a GPS.
All in the size of a thinnish soft-cover book. It would be a fantastic travel companion, shopping assistant, map, news reader, etc. And with bluetooth keyboard support it would also be a reasonable input device for actual work.
Is there a market for it? I think so. I could be wrong but so could you. I have no idea how you can be so sure, since nothing like it has yet appeared.
Sorry but that dog won't hunt. Microsoft has four (4), consumer editions of vista:
1. Starter
2. Home Basic
3. Home Premium
4. Home Ultimate
And I'm not counting "Business", which is not an enterprise level product either, since that would be the appropriately named Vista Enterprise edition, not to be confused with any of the various server editions.
I can certainly accept that a separate consumer edition, for the reasons you outlined, makes some sense. However, Microsoft has four, and it is quite confusing to consumers. For example, many people who get Premium understand by the name that they got the best one. Others imagine that Starter is designed to help first-time users, rather than being a crippled version. So it goes.
While its nice to show all of the SKU's, what is their current availability? taking in account the geoographical limitations, and other aspects that have already been released to the public.
Ultimately there are one or two options to the typical consumer, and most will purchase what came with their box.
After all comparing the price of OSX to Windows is odd, Windows is really the only product that Microsoft sell into the consumer PC space.
To the OP, I still do not understand why four different versions of Windows is confusing to consumers when 8 different versions of a MacBook are not! After all, just like the different Windows versions they are only very slightly different and yet all have different prices.
In fact, thinking about that why are we even having this ridiculous discussion?
Microsoft sells lots of products into the consumer PC space. Like Office Home edition, Flight Simulator and other games, mice, keyboards, etc.
It's confusing because there is no need for it. The MacBooks, I would argue, are more than "slightly" different. Things like screen size, memory, and CPU/GPU, are basic characteristics.
Come on, even my dad, who's 80, knows the difference between a 13" screen and 15", or a 17", or can plainly see that the MacBook Air is super thin. These are genuine differences.
Apple does price points, of course they do. And yes, Steve and his people do set them up so that you are always tempted to spend more money than you intended.
But you get actual hardware for that, not some flipped bits in the same piece of software.
As to why we bother discussing this, I have no idea!
But I would argue that is still a solid practice, it is one that is used in consumer items all the time. How many different TV's do Samsung sell? Are they really all that different? Somebody goes into a store to buy the $999 TV they saw advertised on TV and end up walking out with the $1399 TV they saw in the shop.
Do you think the strategy always works? When I bought my HDTV, I went for the $1399 version and walked out with the $999 version. Not enough in the $1399 version to justify the price. And it was confusing. So I went with the lower price.
So far as I can tell, the only need netbooks meet is price, rather than size. Apple is not interested in bottom feeding (or hasn't been so far), and frankly I don't think their business model, and especially their US-based R&D, can be supported by a cheap netbook. Expensive ultraportables with tiny keyboards and screens have been around for some time, but have always been a niche, or a Japan thing.
The only thing that's changed is that now they are cheap. So the "need" is price. If Apple wants to reach into lower price segments of the market their easiest bet is to lower the price of the plastic MacBook even further, which should be easy enough given current component costs..
I think that it is not so much that they are cheap now, it is more that they only now specced enough to be seen as a credible substitute for a laptop and at the same time have reached a price point in which people would consider buying them.
There is an argument that some of them are too cheap, I would agree with that. Do many people buy them because they are so cheap? yes, of course many do.
But when I think of netbook I do not think of price, i think of size and functionality and I am not alone in that.
I am actually in the process of considering a netbook and not being in a rush am looking at my options. Everything I am looking at is AU $600 plus and range from the Dell Mini 9 (16Gig SSD, 2GB RAM) to the top MSI Wind at AU $1000 (great machine btw). While yes there are many being sold because they are $300, there is still a large market for the higher end models. I actually think this is going to be the growing market for all laptop sales in the future.
I think it is a change in direction for laptop sales. LCD's have come down so much in price that you can buy one for your desk very cheaply, projectors are cheap as chips. There is no longer a need to have big screens on your laptops and the market is deciding it agrees. I know plenty of business people who are trading in their laptops for netbooks.
With a keyboard 93% the size of a full size one then really there is nothing stopping the 9 or 10" netbook from overtaking 15" laptop sales within 2 years.
I honestly think Apple screwed up somewhere by believing thin and large is the future. Thin is okay but small is much better.
Do you think the strategy always works? When I bought my HDTV, I went for the $1399 version and walked out with the $999 version. Not enough in the $1399 version to justify the price. And it was confusing. So I went with the lower price.
Simplicity in pricing works.
Rarely happens and a risk worth taking. You would be surprised how many people spend up to their budget once they have already decided what it is going to be. Even if something cheaper comes along.
Anyway, as someone rightly said. You buy a PC from a store and it comes bundled with an OEM copy of Windows home. No confusion there.
Anyway, this is my last post on this silly subject. We will continue once Apple have released an enterprise edition of OS11 and maybe a couple of home editions too.
Current sales do not all support netbooks being the trend you predict.
Smartphones are projected to sell 198 million units this year.
Notebooks are projected to sell 155 million units this year.
Netbooks are projected to sell 20 million units this year.
Smartphones and notebooks have the largest growth and best revenues in the industry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murphster
With a keyboard 93% the size of a full size one then really there is nothing stopping the 9 or 10" netbook from overtaking 15" laptop sales within 2 years.
I honestly think Apple screwed up somewhere by believing thin and large is the future. Thin is okay but small is much better.
Because Apple's notebook profits continues to rise. Do you have any reason to believe a $2000 notebook is not profitable?
It depends on how many they sell, it's such a different device they need to sell a high amount to be profitable. When you factor in the engineering costs that go into a device like that I would be surprised if that unit is profitable for Apple at this point.
And you are citing overall laptop numbers, I believe the Macbook sells better than the Macbook Pro and that sells better than the Air,by a long stretch.
Current sales do not all support netbooks being the trend you predict.
Smartphones are projected to sell 198 million units this year.
Notebooks are projected to sell 155 million units this year.
Netbooks are projected to sell 20 million units this year.
Smartphones and notebooks have the largest growth and best revenues in the industry.
If we always looked back on last year to work out what will happen next year then we would be now discussing Apple's new touch screen electronic calculator.
Maybe 2 years was a touch to soon, the point is the only difference between a 15" notebook and a high end netbook is screen size. Keeping Apple out of the equation the pricing is similar, the specs are similar. There seems to be a real shift towards smaller screen sizes by consumers. There is no reason not to think that we will see 10" screen becomes the biggest selling size of notebook computers.
Well that is all certainly speculation on your point. We know that Apple is only willing to support profitable products, Apple has improved and updated the Air. We know Apple's notebook revenues have only increased since the introduction of the Air, that leaves no reason to assume the Air is unprofitable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steviet02
It depends on how many they sell, it's such a different device they need to sell a high amount to be profitable. When you factor in the engineering costs that go into a device like that I would be surprised if that unit is profitable for Apple at this point.
And you are citing overall laptop numbers, I believe the Macbook sells better than the Macbook Pro and that sells better than the Air,by a long stretch.
A tower is not the same as a small form-factor (sff) PC (Mini is sff)
Go price a sff PC and you'll find it is more expensive than the Mini.
Yes, I'm sure nothing's a valid comparison. I mean, what could possibly compare to something that has an Apple logo on it? It would totally trump everything, performance wise and price wise, right?
I have a better idea. How about YOU go to Newegg and build a SFF, and then come back.
I didn't post last years number, those numbers are projected for 2009.
You miss on the fact that there are new netbook prototypes with larger screens. No I see absolutely no evidence that most people want 10" netbooks, with tiny keys and trackpads.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murphster
If we always looked back on last year to work out what will happen next year then we would be now discussing Apple's new touch screen electronic calculator.
Maybe 2 years was a touch to soon, the point is the only difference between a 15" notebook and a high end netbook is screen size. Keeping Apple out of the equation the pricing is similar, the specs are similar. There seems to be a real shift towards smaller screen sizes by consumers. There is no reason not to think that we will see 10" screen becomes the biggest selling size of notebook computers.
There is no longer a need to have big screens on your laptops and the market is deciding it agrees. I know plenty of business people who are trading in their laptops for netbooks.
With a keyboard 93% the size of a full size one then really there is nothing stopping the 9 or 10" netbook from overtaking 15" laptop sales within 2 years.
I honestly think Apple screwed up somewhere by believing thin and large is the future. Thin is okay but small is much better.
Murphster left, but for those of you who agree with him, could somebody explain what the advantage is of a 10" screen? I mean the MBA is roughly the size of a manila folder or envelope. Any business person carries business documents in folders like that.
Where, exactly, does the MBA not fit that a 10" netbook does? It sure fits in a briefcase or even a small backpack. What are new storage spot you gaining?
Honestly I see no upside at all to the 10" screen size. Too big for a coat pocket and yet small in terms of screen real estate. All I can see is that they are cheap.
The same for the 93% keyboard. Is saving 7% of keyboard size so incredibly important it justifies the cramped keys? Again, all I see is cheap here. I see no other benefit.
Of course Apple's going to deliver something that runs OS X and has roughly an 8" screen or so.
You only need look at their recent actions.
Sarari 4- Tabs in the title bar preserving what 7 vertical pixels. My 24" doesn't need that extra vertical space but a 7-8" screen would.
Snow Leopard QT Player- Again ...transport controls and excessive border GONE.
Text Processing - Autocomplete and Autocorrection perfect for a virtual keyboard. Data Dectors for tapping dates and other bits of text and turning them into events and stored data.
Airport Express to MobileMe connection- Hello McFly! This isn't a huge feature for someone carrying around a laptop with a 200GB HDD but if you've got a tablet with a tiny 32GB SSD drive in it you need to leverage data sitting back at home. AE/Time Capsule with MobileMe "back to my Mac" was the starters pistol going off.
Multi-touch - four finger gestures coming and leveraging Cocoa Touch.
Tiny Keyboard- Didn't anyone wonder why Apple shrank the keyboard down so small? Could this keyboard be called "portable" ?
I'd be shocked if Apple DIDN'T deliver a small portable device. With MobileMe and iWork.com becoming more integral components to Apple's SAAS strategy the mobile tablet is going to be key.
Don't give me that crap about iPhone either. The engineering complexity of a phone is lightyears beyond the engineering complexity of a mobile tablet. The phone has to sip power or your end user is going to be pissed. You have more latitude for power and cooling in a MID or Tablet device.
This tablet could be based on ARM Cortex processing and PowerVR SGX graphics. Why not? It only really needs to run your typical lighter weight apps. My guess is that WWDC this year brings an Xcode that allows you to effectively target ARM for your more basic apps. Voila.
Another question. What's Apple doing with all of this NAND they're purchasing?
Apple expects the next iPhone to do well I'm sure but I'm a wee bit doubtful that they expect it to do so well they've purchased up Samsung's inventory until April of this year.
Murphster left, but for those of you who agree with him, could somebody explain what the advantage is of a 10" screen? I mean the MBA is roughly the size of a manila folder or envelope. Any business person carries business documents in folders like that.
Where, exactly, does the MBA not fit that a 10" netbook does? It sure fits in a briefcase or even a small backpack. What are new storage spot you gaining?
Honestly I see no upside at all to the 10" screen size. Too big for a coat pocket and yet small in terms of screen real estate. All I can see is that they are cheap.
The same for the 93% keyboard. Is saving 7% of keyboard size so incredibly important it justifies the cramped keys? Again, all I see is cheap here. I see no other benefit.
Next time you are on a flight see if you can see someone using a MBA and compare to someone using a netbook. Then you will understand why thin is not small.
*By the way as a rule most business travelers fly economy, especially now. Business class seems to be reserved for public officials.
I have a 15" MBP that I never take with me traveling anymore, waste of time. I much prefer my 12" Dell and even that is too big really, I would love something a bit smaller.
Battery life is a killer for me too, after 18 months I don't seem to get 2 hours out of my MBP. My Dell which is a few months older still gives me 4.
There are netbooks on the market that promise 9 hours of battery life. You see a smaller screen makes a huge amount of difference to the battery life.
Footprint is the most important aspect to anybody who used their notebook on the go, this is why netbooks are flying out of the shops. Not just for travelling, just imagine sitting in a coffee shop with a 10" netbook. They fit into smaller bags, are far more robust that the more flimsy MBA, components do not get as hot as they have more room to breathe and for some you can even have a DVD player to watch movies on while you travel.
Look at it this way, more netbooks were sold worldwide last year than the total number of notebooks that Apple sold.
Anyone who says there is not a real market for netbooks might as well say there is no market for Apple.
Comments
I'm talking about consumer sales. Enterprise sales are totally different. I spent years at a large enterprise software company and though I was not in sales, I'm familiar with the process.
By "flooding the zone" I simply meant having an excessive number of price points for basically the same product.
If you can find any technical or usability justification for four consumer editions of Vista, you must know something I don't. The feature sets are completely arbitrary.
That is something I fully agree with you on. It is all about price and little to do with features.
But I would argue that is still a solid practice, it is one that is used in consumer items all the time. How many different TV's do Samsung sell? Are they really all that different? Somebody goes into a store to buy the $999 TV they saw advertised on TV and end up walking out with the $1399 TV they saw in the shop.
Are you really saying Steve Jobs would just sell them the $999 TV and be happy?
It is a standard way of selling and is designed to extract the most amount of cash from customers. As a business Microsoft are doing the right thing and I am confused as to why anybody would think it was anything but.
After all comparing the price of OSX to Windows is odd, Windows is really the only product that Microsoft sell into the consumer PC space.
Surely Apple are doing exactly the same thing with having different versions of Mac's? If I walk into an Apple store today to buy a $599 Mac Mini do you not think that Apple actually want me to walk out with a Mac Pro?
To the OP, I still do not understand why four different versions of Windows is confusing to consumers when 8 different versions of a MacBook are not! After all, just like the different Windows versions they are only very slightly different and yet all have different prices.
In fact, thinking about that why are we even having this ridiculous discussion?
See the kindle is a different product, it is a reading device and not an input device. The form factor is perfect for something that does not require much interactive (bar turning a page).
People do not buy netbooks to hold them up in front of their face and read things off, they buy netbooks to take their most used apps on the road with them easily.
...
My whole point is that it just does not make any logical sense as a product, it does not really meet a demand or a need. Good products always meet a need. A traditional netbook from Apple will meet a need because there are lots of people buying netbooks and many of them might well buy one running OSX.
Well I think it can make sense provided that reasonable input is available. The iPhone keyboard in landscape mode is not so bad for replying to e-mail; a keyboard twice as big would actually be fairly practical.
So far as I can tell, the only need netbooks meet is price, rather than size. Apple is not interested in bottom feeding (or hasn't been so far), and frankly I don't think their business model, and especially their US-based R&D, can be supported by a cheap netbook. Expensive ultraportables with tiny keyboards and screens have been around for some time, but have always been a niche, or a Japan thing.
The only thing that's changed is that now they are cheap. So the "need" is price. If Apple wants to reach into lower price segments of the market their easiest bet is to lower the price of the plastic MacBook even further, which should be easy enough given current component costs.
The pad concept which you dismiss is interesting. Yes, it would be more of a reader / viewer / browser device than an input device, but it would replace books and magazines while also giving you computer features such as browsing, e-mail, and document viewing and minor editing. It would also be a portable HD video player and a GPS.
All in the size of a thinnish soft-cover book. It would be a fantastic travel companion, shopping assistant, map, news reader, etc. And with bluetooth keyboard support it would also be a reasonable input device for actual work.
Is there a market for it? I think so. I could be wrong but so could you. I have no idea how you can be so sure, since nothing like it has yet appeared.
Sorry but that dog won't hunt. Microsoft has four (4), consumer editions of vista:
1. Starter
2. Home Basic
3. Home Premium
4. Home Ultimate
And I'm not counting "Business", which is not an enterprise level product either, since that would be the appropriately named Vista Enterprise edition, not to be confused with any of the various server editions.
I can certainly accept that a separate consumer edition, for the reasons you outlined, makes some sense. However, Microsoft has four, and it is quite confusing to consumers. For example, many people who get Premium understand by the name that they got the best one. Others imagine that Starter is designed to help first-time users, rather than being a crippled version. So it goes.
While its nice to show all of the SKU's, what is their current availability? taking in account the geoographical limitations, and other aspects that have already been released to the public.
Ultimately there are one or two options to the typical consumer, and most will purchase what came with their box.
Here comes round two.....
I am not saying that Apple is not making a netbook. I am just stating that one should not talk about a product unless its been proven a fact
Following your logic would put all Apple blogging sites like this one out of business...
After all comparing the price of OSX to Windows is odd, Windows is really the only product that Microsoft sell into the consumer PC space.
To the OP, I still do not understand why four different versions of Windows is confusing to consumers when 8 different versions of a MacBook are not! After all, just like the different Windows versions they are only very slightly different and yet all have different prices.
In fact, thinking about that why are we even having this ridiculous discussion?
Microsoft sells lots of products into the consumer PC space. Like Office Home edition, Flight Simulator and other games, mice, keyboards, etc.
It's confusing because there is no need for it. The MacBooks, I would argue, are more than "slightly" different. Things like screen size, memory, and CPU/GPU, are basic characteristics.
Come on, even my dad, who's 80, knows the difference between a 13" screen and 15", or a 17", or can plainly see that the MacBook Air is super thin. These are genuine differences.
Apple does price points, of course they do. And yes, Steve and his people do set them up so that you are always tempted to spend more money than you intended.
But you get actual hardware for that, not some flipped bits in the same piece of software.
As to why we bother discussing this, I have no idea!
But I would argue that is still a solid practice, it is one that is used in consumer items all the time. How many different TV's do Samsung sell? Are they really all that different? Somebody goes into a store to buy the $999 TV they saw advertised on TV and end up walking out with the $1399 TV they saw in the shop.
Do you think the strategy always works? When I bought my HDTV, I went for the $1399 version and walked out with the $999 version. Not enough in the $1399 version to justify the price. And it was confusing. So I went with the lower price.
Simplicity in pricing works.
So far as I can tell, the only need netbooks meet is price, rather than size. Apple is not interested in bottom feeding (or hasn't been so far), and frankly I don't think their business model, and especially their US-based R&D, can be supported by a cheap netbook. Expensive ultraportables with tiny keyboards and screens have been around for some time, but have always been a niche, or a Japan thing.
The only thing that's changed is that now they are cheap. So the "need" is price. If Apple wants to reach into lower price segments of the market their easiest bet is to lower the price of the plastic MacBook even further, which should be easy enough given current component costs..
I think that it is not so much that they are cheap now, it is more that they only now specced enough to be seen as a credible substitute for a laptop and at the same time have reached a price point in which people would consider buying them.
There is an argument that some of them are too cheap, I would agree with that. Do many people buy them because they are so cheap? yes, of course many do.
But when I think of netbook I do not think of price, i think of size and functionality and I am not alone in that.
I am actually in the process of considering a netbook and not being in a rush am looking at my options. Everything I am looking at is AU $600 plus and range from the Dell Mini 9 (16Gig SSD, 2GB RAM) to the top MSI Wind at AU $1000 (great machine btw). While yes there are many being sold because they are $300, there is still a large market for the higher end models. I actually think this is going to be the growing market for all laptop sales in the future.
I think it is a change in direction for laptop sales. LCD's have come down so much in price that you can buy one for your desk very cheaply, projectors are cheap as chips. There is no longer a need to have big screens on your laptops and the market is deciding it agrees. I know plenty of business people who are trading in their laptops for netbooks.
With a keyboard 93% the size of a full size one then really there is nothing stopping the 9 or 10" netbook from overtaking 15" laptop sales within 2 years.
I honestly think Apple screwed up somewhere by believing thin and large is the future. Thin is okay but small is much better.
Do you think the strategy always works? When I bought my HDTV, I went for the $1399 version and walked out with the $999 version. Not enough in the $1399 version to justify the price. And it was confusing. So I went with the lower price.
Simplicity in pricing works.
Rarely happens and a risk worth taking. You would be surprised how many people spend up to their budget once they have already decided what it is going to be. Even if something cheaper comes along.
Anyway, as someone rightly said. You buy a PC from a store and it comes bundled with an OEM copy of Windows home. No confusion there.
Anyway, this is my last post on this silly subject. We will continue once Apple have released an enterprise edition of OS11 and maybe a couple of home editions too.
, and actually contributes to Apple's profitability.
How do you know that? Last I checked they don't breakout the numbers on the Air.
How do you know that? Last I checked they don't breakout the numbers on the Air.
Smartphones are projected to sell 198 million units this year.
Notebooks are projected to sell 155 million units this year.
Netbooks are projected to sell 20 million units this year.
Smartphones and notebooks have the largest growth and best revenues in the industry.
With a keyboard 93% the size of a full size one then really there is nothing stopping the 9 or 10" netbook from overtaking 15" laptop sales within 2 years.
I honestly think Apple screwed up somewhere by believing thin and large is the future. Thin is okay but small is much better.
Because Apple's notebook profits continues to rise. Do you have any reason to believe a $2000 notebook is not profitable?
It depends on how many they sell, it's such a different device they need to sell a high amount to be profitable. When you factor in the engineering costs that go into a device like that I would be surprised if that unit is profitable for Apple at this point.
And you are citing overall laptop numbers, I believe the Macbook sells better than the Macbook Pro and that sells better than the Air,by a long stretch.
Current sales do not all support netbooks being the trend you predict.
Smartphones are projected to sell 198 million units this year.
Notebooks are projected to sell 155 million units this year.
Netbooks are projected to sell 20 million units this year.
Smartphones and notebooks have the largest growth and best revenues in the industry.
If we always looked back on last year to work out what will happen next year then we would be now discussing Apple's new touch screen electronic calculator.
Maybe 2 years was a touch to soon, the point is the only difference between a 15" notebook and a high end netbook is screen size. Keeping Apple out of the equation the pricing is similar, the specs are similar. There seems to be a real shift towards smaller screen sizes by consumers. There is no reason not to think that we will see 10" screen becomes the biggest selling size of notebook computers.
It depends on how many they sell, it's such a different device they need to sell a high amount to be profitable. When you factor in the engineering costs that go into a device like that I would be surprised if that unit is profitable for Apple at this point.
And you are citing overall laptop numbers, I believe the Macbook sells better than the Macbook Pro and that sells better than the Air,by a long stretch.
Not an apples to apples comparison.
A tower is not the same as a small form-factor (sff) PC (Mini is sff)
Go price a sff PC and you'll find it is more expensive than the Mini.
Yes, I'm sure nothing's a valid comparison. I mean, what could possibly compare to something that has an Apple logo on it? It would totally trump everything, performance wise and price wise, right?
I have a better idea. How about YOU go to Newegg and build a SFF, and then come back.
You miss on the fact that there are new netbook prototypes with larger screens. No I see absolutely no evidence that most people want 10" netbooks, with tiny keys and trackpads.
If we always looked back on last year to work out what will happen next year then we would be now discussing Apple's new touch screen electronic calculator.
Maybe 2 years was a touch to soon, the point is the only difference between a 15" notebook and a high end netbook is screen size. Keeping Apple out of the equation the pricing is similar, the specs are similar. There seems to be a real shift towards smaller screen sizes by consumers. There is no reason not to think that we will see 10" screen becomes the biggest selling size of notebook computers.
There is no longer a need to have big screens on your laptops and the market is deciding it agrees. I know plenty of business people who are trading in their laptops for netbooks.
With a keyboard 93% the size of a full size one then really there is nothing stopping the 9 or 10" netbook from overtaking 15" laptop sales within 2 years.
I honestly think Apple screwed up somewhere by believing thin and large is the future. Thin is okay but small is much better.
Murphster left, but for those of you who agree with him, could somebody explain what the advantage is of a 10" screen? I mean the MBA is roughly the size of a manila folder or envelope. Any business person carries business documents in folders like that.
Where, exactly, does the MBA not fit that a 10" netbook does? It sure fits in a briefcase or even a small backpack. What are new storage spot you gaining?
Honestly I see no upside at all to the 10" screen size. Too big for a coat pocket and yet small in terms of screen real estate. All I can see is that they are cheap.
The same for the 93% keyboard. Is saving 7% of keyboard size so incredibly important it justifies the cramped keys? Again, all I see is cheap here. I see no other benefit.
You only need look at their recent actions.
Sarari 4- Tabs in the title bar preserving what 7 vertical pixels. My 24" doesn't need that extra vertical space but a 7-8" screen would.
Snow Leopard QT Player- Again ...transport controls and excessive border GONE.
Text Processing - Autocomplete and Autocorrection perfect for a virtual keyboard. Data Dectors for tapping dates and other bits of text and turning them into events and stored data.
Airport Express to MobileMe connection- Hello McFly! This isn't a huge feature for someone carrying around a laptop with a 200GB HDD but if you've got a tablet with a tiny 32GB SSD drive in it you need to leverage data sitting back at home. AE/Time Capsule with MobileMe "back to my Mac" was the starters pistol going off.
Multi-touch - four finger gestures coming and leveraging Cocoa Touch.
Tiny Keyboard- Didn't anyone wonder why Apple shrank the keyboard down so small? Could this keyboard be called "portable" ?
I'd be shocked if Apple DIDN'T deliver a small portable device. With MobileMe and iWork.com becoming more integral components to Apple's SAAS strategy the mobile tablet is going to be key.
Don't give me that crap about iPhone either. The engineering complexity of a phone is lightyears beyond the engineering complexity of a mobile tablet. The phone has to sip power or your end user is going to be pissed. You have more latitude for power and cooling in a MID or Tablet device.
This tablet could be based on ARM Cortex processing and PowerVR SGX graphics. Why not? It only really needs to run your typical lighter weight apps. My guess is that WWDC this year brings an Xcode that allows you to effectively target ARM for your more basic apps. Voila.
Another question. What's Apple doing with all of this NAND they're purchasing?
Why is Apple buying up the world's NAND Flash Memory?
Apple introduces NAND iShortage
Apple expects the next iPhone to do well I'm sure but I'm a wee bit doubtful that they expect it to do so well they've purchased up Samsung's inventory until April of this year.
Murphster left, but for those of you who agree with him, could somebody explain what the advantage is of a 10" screen? I mean the MBA is roughly the size of a manila folder or envelope. Any business person carries business documents in folders like that.
Where, exactly, does the MBA not fit that a 10" netbook does? It sure fits in a briefcase or even a small backpack. What are new storage spot you gaining?
Honestly I see no upside at all to the 10" screen size. Too big for a coat pocket and yet small in terms of screen real estate. All I can see is that they are cheap.
The same for the 93% keyboard. Is saving 7% of keyboard size so incredibly important it justifies the cramped keys? Again, all I see is cheap here. I see no other benefit.
Next time you are on a flight see if you can see someone using a MBA and compare to someone using a netbook. Then you will understand why thin is not small.
*By the way as a rule most business travelers fly economy, especially now. Business class seems to be reserved for public officials.
I have a 15" MBP that I never take with me traveling anymore, waste of time. I much prefer my 12" Dell and even that is too big really, I would love something a bit smaller.
Battery life is a killer for me too, after 18 months I don't seem to get 2 hours out of my MBP. My Dell which is a few months older still gives me 4.
There are netbooks on the market that promise 9 hours of battery life. You see a smaller screen makes a huge amount of difference to the battery life.
Footprint is the most important aspect to anybody who used their notebook on the go, this is why netbooks are flying out of the shops. Not just for travelling, just imagine sitting in a coffee shop with a 10" netbook. They fit into smaller bags, are far more robust that the more flimsy MBA, components do not get as hot as they have more room to breathe and for some you can even have a DVD player to watch movies on while you travel.
Look at it this way, more netbooks were sold worldwide last year than the total number of notebooks that Apple sold.
Anyone who says there is not a real market for netbooks might as well say there is no market for Apple.