Of course Apple's going to deliver something that runs OS X and has roughly an 8" screen or so.
You only need look at their recent actions.
Sarari 4- Tabs in the title bar preserving what 7 vertical pixels. My 24" doesn't need that extra vertical space but a 7-8" screen would.
Snow Leopard QT Player- Again ...transport controls and excessive border GONE.
Text Processing - Autocomplete and Autocorrection perfect for a virtual keyboard. Data Dectors for tapping dates and other bits of text and turning them into events and stored data.
Airport Express to MobileM connection- Hello McFly! This isn't a huge feature for someone carrying around a laptop with a 200GB HDD but if you've got a tablet with a tiny 32GB SSD drive in it you need to leverage data sitting back at home. AE/Time Capsule with MobileMe "back to my Mac" was the starters pistol going off.
Multi-touch - four finger gestures coming and leveraging Cocoa Touch.
I'd be shocked if Apple DIDN'T deliver a small portable device. With MobileMe and iWork.com becoming more integral components to Apple's SAAS strategy the mobile tablet is going to be key.
Don't give me that crap about iPhone either. The engineering complexity of a phone is lightyears beyond the engineering complexity of a mobile tablet. The phone has to sip power or your end user is going to be pissed. You have more latitude for power and cooling in a MID or Tablet device.
This tablet could be based on ARM Cortex processing and PowerVR SGX graphics. Why not? It only really needs to run your typical lighter weight apps. My guess is that WWDC this year brings an Xcode that allows you to effectively target ARM for your more basic apps. Voila.
Of course Apple's going to deliver something that runs OS X and has roughly an 8" screen or so.
I can agree Apple is likely to deliver more portable devices. Its difficult to say what exactly that product will be or exactly when they will deliver it. This year isn't really the best year to launch a new platform or a radically new product.
Quote:
Don't give me that crap about iPhone either. The engineering complexity of a phone is lightyears beyond the engineering complexity of a mobile tablet. The phone has to sip power or your end user is going to be pissed. You have more latitude for power and cooling in a MID or Tablet device.
From a technical standpoint this may be true. But from a real world user standpoint tablets never took off. Smartphone sales will soon surpass sales of entire PC industry.
I can agree Apple is likely to deliver more portable devices. Its difficult to say what exactly that product will be or exactly when they will deliver it. This year isn't really the best year to launch a new platform or a radically new product.
From a technical standpoint this may be true. But from a real world user standpoint tablets never took off. Smartphone sales will soon surpass sales of entire PC industry.
Well I'm certainly not expecting anything prior to Snow Leopard shipping. Though it is clear Apple is paying more and more attention to making things space efficient.
They have gotten Mini DisplayPort ratified as the standard.
They've invested 500 million dollars in LG who in addition to making some pretty solid desktop displays has a burgeoning market in touchscreens.
Smartphone sales will indeed surpass the PC market due to the portability. The PC market should embrace Netbooks but not as some cheap consolation prize for those that cannot shell out for a full featured laptop but rather for those of us who have narrow needs when we're on the road.
I'm not surprised tablets never took off. PC vendors could not wean themselves from a keyboard. I laughed when I saw tablet after tablet shipping with a full qwerty keyboard. You really want people to embrace tablet computing with a keyboard attached the the tablet?
The PC isn't where you look for breaking technology. Their so mired in their "must support legacy" pathology you get slide out keyboards on touch aware phones. Apple doesn't have a problem leading consumers to where they need to be.
Well I'm certainly not expecting anything prior to Snow Leopard shipping. Though it is clear Apple is paying more and more attention to making things space efficient.
They have gotten Mini DisplayPort ratified as the standard.
They've invested 500 million dollars in LG who in addition to making some pretty solid desktop displays has a burgeoning market in touchscreens.
Smartphone sales will indeed surpass the PC market due to the portability. The PC market should embrace Netbooks but not as some cheap consolation prize for those that cannot shell out for a full featured laptop but rather for those of us who have narrow needs when we're on the road.
I'm not surprised tablets never took off. PC vendors could not wean themselves from a keyboard. I laughed when I saw tablet after tablet shipping with a full qwerty keyboard. You really want people to embrace tablet computing with a keyboard attached the the tablet?
The PC isn't where you look for breaking technology. Their so mired in their "must support legacy" pathology you get slide out keyboards on touch aware phones. Apple doesn't have a problem leading consumers to where they need to be.
Airplanes, battery life, and coffee shops. You are working really hard to sell the advantage of netbooks. If netbooks are really that great then they will be well accepted in the market.
But your last point in particular is stretching quite a bit to prove the future viability of netbooks.
There are some important key differences between the netbook market and Apple's notebooks. Netbook are low cost low margin products spread across several companies. Apple's notebooks are premium cost with premium margin products and all of the revenue goes to one company.
Last year 11 million netbooks were sold at an average sale price of $350 for a total of $3.85 billion in revenue.
Last year Apple sold roughly 5 million notebooks at an average sale price of around $2000 for a total of $10 billion in revenue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murphster
Look at it this way, more netbooks were sold worldwide last year than the total number of notebooks that Apple sold.
Anyone who says there is not a real market for netbooks might as well say there is no market for Apple.
Of course Apple's going to deliver something that runs OS X and has roughly an 8" screen or so.
You only need look at their recent actions.
Sarari 4- Tabs in the title bar preserving what 7 vertical pixels. My 24" doesn't need that extra vertical space but a 7-8" screen would.
Snow Leopard QT Player- Again ...transport controls and excessive border GONE.
Text Processing - Autocomplete and Autocorrection perfect for a virtual keyboard. Data Dectors for tapping dates and other bits of text and turning them into events and stored data.
Airport Express to MobileMe connection- Hello McFly! This isn't a huge feature for someone carrying around a laptop with a 200GB HDD but if you've got a tablet with a tiny 32GB SSD drive in it you need to leverage data sitting back at home. AE/Time Capsule with MobileMe "back to my Mac" was the starters pistol going off.
Multi-touch - four finger gestures coming and leveraging Cocoa Touch.
Tiny Keyboard- Didn't anyone wonder why Apple shrank the keyboard down so small? Could this keyboard be called "portable" ?
I'd be shocked if Apple DIDN'T deliver a small portable device. With MobileMe and iWork.com becoming more integral components to Apple's SAAS strategy the mobile tablet is going to be key.
Don't give me that crap about iPhone either. The engineering complexity of a phone is lightyears beyond the engineering complexity of a mobile tablet. The phone has to sip power or your end user is going to be pissed. You have more latitude for power and cooling in a MID or Tablet device.
This tablet could be based on ARM Cortex processing and PowerVR SGX graphics. Why not? It only really needs to run your typical lighter weight apps. My guess is that WWDC this year brings an Xcode that allows you to effectively target ARM for your more basic apps. Voila.
Another question. What's Apple doing with all of this NAND they're purchasing?
Apple expects the next iPhone to do well I'm sure but I'm a wee bit doubtful that they expect it to do so well they've purchased up Samsung's inventory until April of this year.
Thank You!
That's exactly what I meant with the newer keyboard - much more portable than a typical keyboard and potentially a supplementary feature to a tablet (the combination creating a "netbook" of sorts)
that Always Innovating Touch Book idea (the name, too) could very well fit into that idea of taking a tablet and attaching a keyboard, but leaving the ability to be used independently.
I think Apple won't disappoint with the hardware
we all know they wont disappoint with the software
and I'm pretty sure they won't disappoint with the form
We all think Apple products are well made. Even in there most basic form, Apple products are still mid-range quality products. I have hope.
But your last point in particular is stretching quite a bit to prove the future viability of netbooks.
There are some important key differences between the netbook market and Apple's notebooks. Netbook are low cost low margin products spread across several companies. Apple's notebooks are premium cost with premium margin products and all of the revenue goes to one company.
Last year 11 million netbooks were sold at an average sale price of $350 for a total of $3.85 billion in revenue.
Last year Apple sold roughly 5 million notebooks at an average sale price of around $2000 for a total of $10 billion in revenue.
But the point is that they have been accepted into the market. That is not even up for debate.
And I was not talking about profit margins or sell prices, it is irrelevant in the point I was making. I am not trying to justify why Apple should or should not make a netbook. I am merely pointing out that netbooks are in fact good for what they are being bought for and that many people are actually already buying them. More so than Apple notebooks.
Quote:
Airplanes, battery life, and coffee shops. You are working really hard to sell the advantage of netbooks.
I am not even sure what that is supposed to mean.
Working hard? In what way. You really do not believe that the portability and long battery life is not a reason why netbooks are popular? Of course they are key reasons why people are buying them.
The stupid thing is that the only reason why people come on here and argue against them is because Apple do not make them. The minute Apple release a netbook this forum will be full of people saying how great they are and how great Apple is for making the best one ever.
You really do not believe that the portability and long battery life is not a reason why netbooks are popular? Of course they are key reasons why people are buying them.
I think it's the very low price and the portability. I do have plenty of people, guys and girls who think they are so adorable. Never really get that with my MacBook. But I can't agree it's because of a "long battery life" as both my Acer Aspire One 1/6GHz witha 4-cell battery running WinXP and MSI Wind 1.8GHz with a 6-cell battery running Mac OSx86 have dismal battery life for a laptop PC.
Quote:
The stupid thing is that the only reason why people come on here and argue against them is because Apple do not make them. The minute Apple release a netbook this forum will be full of people saying how great they are and how great Apple is for making the best one ever.
I don't think that is entirely true as stated. The physical design will be different aesthetically, structurally and, perhaps, performancely. It will also be using OS X. These are valid reasons why people will find it better than the current Linux and WinXP systems using 1G Atom CPUs on GMA950 IGPs on very, very poor displays and keyboards.
My netbooks have done what I needed them to do, but they are not, by any means, a replacement for a typical notebook. I don't see Apple getting into this market of small notebooks unless they include many features that aren't current included in today's netbook.
But the point is that they have been accepted into the market. That is not even up for debate.
At this point netbook hype far exceeds their real sales numbers. Its still to be seen whether they actually grow to a point of significant sales.
Quote:
I am merely pointing out that netbooks are in fact good for what they are being bought for and that many people are actually already buying them. More so than Apple notebooks.
You stack the deck comparing sales of several vendors vs the sales of one vendor. Also netbooks and notebooks serve completely different uses.
Quote:
Working hard? In what way. You really do not believe that the portability and long battery life is not a reason why netbooks are popular? Of course they are key reasons why people are buying them.
Netbooks aren't as popular as the hype machine makes them out to be. Tech media likes to trumpet netbook growth. That is largely because they have gone from near zero to a small percentage of computer marketshare. 11 million out of 270 million is not that popular.
Quote:
The stupid thing is that the only reason why people come on here and argue against them is because Apple do not make them. The minute Apple release a netbook this forum will be full of people saying how great they are and how great Apple is for making the best one ever. Always the same on these forums. It is very sad.
I've never given an opinion whether Apple should or should not make a netbook. I'm simply looking at the reality of sales, revenues, and marketshare numbers. I'm sure if Apple made a netbook, it would be nothing like those from other PC vendors and it certainly would not cost $400.
Netbooks may well become more prominent player in the PC industry. I'm simply saying the sales and revenue projections clearly show today the real money is in notebooks and smartphones.
My guess, if Apple does come out with a netbook/tablet, they'll screw it up somehow, either by leaving out a particular port or feature everyone has, or making it too expensive, relative to it's intended use, like the MBA.
I could see Apple maybe doing a Vaio P type device, but even then, I think Apple would charge $1000 for it.
My guess, if Apple does come out with a netbook/tablet, they'll screw it up somehow, either by leaving out a particular port or feature everyone has, or making it too expensive, relative to it's intended use, like the MBA.
I could see Apple maybe doing a Vaio P type device, but even then, I think Apple would charge $1000 for it.
I disagree.
I think they'll create a device that will approach the Netbook category with class and aspire to be more than just a shrunken facsimile of a full sized notebook.
Some will hate it...some will love it and many will want it.
It will be marketed as a device that you simply MUST have MobileMe for.
When the MacBook Air was introduced their were many sub-notebooks that cost just as much if not more. What notebook do you think is more appropriately priced with the same functionality of the Mac Book Air?
Quote:
Originally Posted by guinness
My guess, if Apple does come out with a netbook/tablet, they'll screw it up somehow, either by leaving out a particular port or feature everyone has, or making it too expensive, relative to it's intended use, like the MBA.
I hate the netbook name. It sounds like it is an ugly term for an also ran.
Think about it. Apple has this enormous netbook pressure. Apple has this Kindle pressure. Historically Jobsman starts with "who needs video" and brings out ipod video. So I would think they are testing the waters with simply a comment loose while the fanbois go ra ra ra - the "funnest" ipod ... etc. you know what i mean - rather than putting out a product and failing. guess the mac cube hurt them a lot. (Incidently I am typing this message on one - 450mhz, tiger, 768mbram - the beast still works like billy O).
That said, I am crazy about apple and its products.
So I think they would cannibalize the ipod touch and make it a touchpad or a webpad. Slightly largish screen, a dock adapter, may be a usb port or two, could act as a monitor to the mac mini, connectable to the apple projector for presentations etc.
When the MacBook Air was introduced their were many sub-notebooks that cost just as much if not more. What notebook do you think is more appropriately priced with the same functionality of the Mac Book Air?
The Macbook.
It's only a whole 2 pounds heavier, but it has a DVD burner, better CPU, larger, faster HD, more ports, and same footprint.
I would think the MBA would make more since, if it was really smaller than the MB, like with an 11 or 12 inch screen, but it's just a thinner, slower MB. And with the recent aluminum MB, I see even less reason to get a MBA, other than it has a better screen than what the MB has, but I don't see that making up the $500 gap, as the MBA has a small SSD or a very slow SATA HD.
Maybe if I had money to burn, or was a fashionista, I'd be all over the MBA, but I rather have the white MB, the alu one, or a netbook.
It's only a whole 2 pounds heavier, but it has a DVD burner, better CPU, larger, faster HD, more ports, and same footprint.
I would think the MBA would make more since, if it was really smaller than the MB, like with an 11 or 12 inch screen, but it's just a thinner, slower MB. And with the recent aluminum MB, I see even less reason to get a MBA, other than it has a better screen than what the MB has, but I don't see that making up the $500 gap, as the MBA has a small SSD or a very slow SATA HD.
Maybe if I had money to burn, or was a fashionista, I'd be all over the MBA, but I rather have the white MB, the alu one, or a netbook.
But to lose 1" to 2" off the display diagonal means reducing the footprint on the x and y plane. this means that the machine can no longer be as thin as it was before as you have to store the same internal components in a smaller footprint, assuming you want to keep the same dismal battery life. Then you have an issue with the keyboard on the width, though there should be enough room on the 12" to keep the current keyboard, though you'll have to beef up the construction on the sides to make sure it's a sound design, which may add some weight.
Personally, I would like to have seen such a device made, but with a larger battery that is closer to the MacBook's weight and even using a 2.5" HDD now that the device has been made thicker, but that obviously isn't Apple market focus. As much as I liked my 12" PowerBook everything indicates that it wasn't a great seller for Apple compared to their other notebooks, and would probably be worse when you consider that screens moved from 4:3 to 16:9 ratios which makes even the 12.1" displays having more vertical height than the 13.3" displays used today. The change in Safari 4 tabs does certainly help so I can imagine that it would not be well received to have even less space to read text, though as a video player it would be great.
The stupid thing is that the only reason why people come on here and argue against them is because Apple do not make them. The minute Apple release a netbook this forum will be full of people saying how great they are and how great Apple is for making the best one ever.
Always the same on these forums. It is very sad.
The conversation stopped making sense as soon as you presume motives. I'm not a fan of everything Apple does. I don't like their preference for selling locked phones around the World, for example, and I've said so right in this forum. I also have been critical of their environmental policies, which only recently have improved, and not enough.
But --and this is a reason I like Apple, and not the other way around--, I generally don't like cheap, loss-leader products, crappy design, knockoff "design" (such as MSI), and other aspects of the netbook phenomenon. I see it as a race to the bottom that should it spread will defund R&D in the computer industry, and lead to crappy products for many years to come.
I don't, in other words, like junk. Especially cheap junk. People are free to like junk and I sure won't hold it against them. But with so many junk suppliers, I see no need for Apple to become one more.
By the way. I use my MBA in a cafe three blocks away with 24" x 24" tables and it's not a problem.
I haven't flown with it, but I used to fly regularly with a 13.3" Sony Vaio a few years back and I managed fine. I don't see how my MBA could be worse. Sure, the angle is not ideal, but I wouldn't trade it for a smaller screen.
Apple will enter the portable computing space between the iPhone and the MBA, but hopefully they will do what they always do and look at it from every angle and come up with a unique, carefully conceived solution.
My guess, if Apple does come out with a netbook/tablet, they'll screw it up somehow, either by leaving out a particular port or feature everyone has, or making it too expensive, relative to it's intended use, like the MBA.
This is my biggest fear as well. I really want an Apple netbook, but I shudder to think of what they might force us to accept. Apple's offerings lately have been a lot of bait and switch, with a lot of hoopla over some things while conveniently forgetting to mention how many other things have been downgraded or left right out. Their only response when people complain about what is missing seems to be "you don't need that".
Actually you have a good point that the differnces between the MacBook and the Air have blurred with this latest update. I think the Air is the future form factor of the MacBook.
You had a good solid point until your last sentence. Whether or not the Air is only suitable for fashionistas is your opinion. Your attempt to belittle the usefulness of the Air does not diminish the fact that to be fashionable is a billion dollar business
Quote:
Originally Posted by guinness
The Macbook.
It's only a whole 2 pounds heavier, but it has a DVD burner, better CPU, larger, faster HD, more ports, and same footprint.
I would think the MBA would make more since, if it was really smaller than the MB, like with an 11 or 12 inch screen, but it's just a thinner, slower MB. And with the recent aluminum MB, I see even less reason to get a MBA, other than it has a better screen than what the MB has, but I don't see that making up the $500 gap, as the MBA has a small SSD or a very slow SATA HD.
Maybe if I had money to burn, or was a fashionista, I'd be all over the MBA, but I rather have the white MB, the alu one, or a netbook.
The question comes down to the fact that if these functions were included, would those functions that have been left out significantly help sales? Machines that do include all of these functions have better sales? Or is all of this based on computer geek dreams?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka
This is my biggest fear as well. I really want an Apple netbook, but I shudder to think of what they might force us to accept. Apple's offerings lately have been a lot of bait and switch, with a lot of hoopla over some things while conveniently forgetting to mention how many other things have been downgraded or left right out. Their only response when people complain about what is missing seems to be "you don't need that".
Of course Apple's going to deliver something that runs OS X and has roughly an 8" screen or so.
Great post, hmurchison!
So you suggest the new Apple 'netbook' will run on ARM CPUs - just like the Touch Book.
I speculated about this a while ago too and concluded it's the only way for Apple to offer something substantially cheaper without cannibalizing its current Mac models.
You suggest, unlike the Touch Book, it will not come with a keyboard, but have the option to plug one in via USB. Yet adding one via USB is not nearly as smart as the Touch Book's setup.
But why not use Bluetooth? Apple already has a tiny Bluetooth keyboard. Why introduce a USB version? Probably means the new netbook will not have Bluetooth.
But that means no tethering with iPhones either! Which would seem like a no-brainer (with additional tethering data plan of course).
I really like the Touch Book's 3 internal USB slots. Smart. Just plug in your USB dongle/drive - and leave it there most of the time. Or add WiFi. Or 3G data modems.
But will Apple's netbook also have a 1024x600 display, or much less?
Somehow everyone expects Apple's netbook to be an overgrown iPod touch. But that's not nearly as smart as the Touch Book's hardware.
Will Apple innovate further?
One tech I'd like to add to the list:
The 17" MacBook Pro's smart battery. Might give the netbook 24 hour battery life.
I feel a bit sorry for the Touch Book guys. They try to create an 'iPod touch like netbook' for the masses - only to have Apple come in and steal the thunder (if the rumors are true)...
When is it coming?
My guess: introduction at WWDC as 'One More Thing', shipping in September - to give developers time to re-compile their software for ARM CPUs. It really would need to be WWDC IMHO as it is a completely new OSX platform.
One thing's not clear though:
If Apple were to introduce this in Q3, why would they purchase Samsung's April Flash production? With prices falling and economies declining, waiting a few months could only save them money. Especially if according to rumors productions will only start in Q3.
Comments
Of course Apple's going to deliver something that runs OS X and has roughly an 8" screen or so.
You only need look at their recent actions.
Sarari 4- Tabs in the title bar preserving what 7 vertical pixels. My 24" doesn't need that extra vertical space but a 7-8" screen would.
Snow Leopard QT Player- Again ...transport controls and excessive border GONE.
Text Processing - Autocomplete and Autocorrection perfect for a virtual keyboard. Data Dectors for tapping dates and other bits of text and turning them into events and stored data.
Airport Express to MobileM connection- Hello McFly! This isn't a huge feature for someone carrying around a laptop with a 200GB HDD but if you've got a tablet with a tiny 32GB SSD drive in it you need to leverage data sitting back at home. AE/Time Capsule with MobileMe "back to my Mac" was the starters pistol going off.
Multi-touch - four finger gestures coming and leveraging Cocoa Touch.
I'd be shocked if Apple DIDN'T deliver a small portable device. With MobileMe and iWork.com becoming more integral components to Apple's SAAS strategy the mobile tablet is going to be key.
Don't give me that crap about iPhone either. The engineering complexity of a phone is lightyears beyond the engineering complexity of a mobile tablet. The phone has to sip power or your end user is going to be pissed. You have more latitude for power and cooling in a MID or Tablet device.
This tablet could be based on ARM Cortex processing and PowerVR SGX graphics. Why not? It only really needs to run your typical lighter weight apps. My guess is that WWDC this year brings an Xcode that allows you to effectively target ARM for your more basic apps. Voila.
Great post.
Of course Apple's going to deliver something that runs OS X and has roughly an 8" screen or so.
I can agree Apple is likely to deliver more portable devices. Its difficult to say what exactly that product will be or exactly when they will deliver it. This year isn't really the best year to launch a new platform or a radically new product.
Don't give me that crap about iPhone either. The engineering complexity of a phone is lightyears beyond the engineering complexity of a mobile tablet. The phone has to sip power or your end user is going to be pissed. You have more latitude for power and cooling in a MID or Tablet device.
From a technical standpoint this may be true. But from a real world user standpoint tablets never took off. Smartphone sales will soon surpass sales of entire PC industry.
I can agree Apple is likely to deliver more portable devices. Its difficult to say what exactly that product will be or exactly when they will deliver it. This year isn't really the best year to launch a new platform or a radically new product.
From a technical standpoint this may be true. But from a real world user standpoint tablets never took off. Smartphone sales will soon surpass sales of entire PC industry.
Well I'm certainly not expecting anything prior to Snow Leopard shipping. Though it is clear Apple is paying more and more attention to making things space efficient.
They have gotten Mini DisplayPort ratified as the standard.
They've invested 500 million dollars in LG who in addition to making some pretty solid desktop displays has a burgeoning market in touchscreens.
Smartphone sales will indeed surpass the PC market due to the portability. The PC market should embrace Netbooks but not as some cheap consolation prize for those that cannot shell out for a full featured laptop but rather for those of us who have narrow needs when we're on the road.
I'm not surprised tablets never took off. PC vendors could not wean themselves from a keyboard. I laughed when I saw tablet after tablet shipping with a full qwerty keyboard. You really want people to embrace tablet computing with a keyboard attached the the tablet?
The PC isn't where you look for breaking technology. Their so mired in their "must support legacy" pathology you get slide out keyboards on touch aware phones. Apple doesn't have a problem leading consumers to where they need to be.
Well I'm certainly not expecting anything prior to Snow Leopard shipping. Though it is clear Apple is paying more and more attention to making things space efficient.
They have gotten Mini DisplayPort ratified as the standard.
They've invested 500 million dollars in LG who in addition to making some pretty solid desktop displays has a burgeoning market in touchscreens.
Smartphone sales will indeed surpass the PC market due to the portability. The PC market should embrace Netbooks but not as some cheap consolation prize for those that cannot shell out for a full featured laptop but rather for those of us who have narrow needs when we're on the road.
I'm not surprised tablets never took off. PC vendors could not wean themselves from a keyboard. I laughed when I saw tablet after tablet shipping with a full qwerty keyboard. You really want people to embrace tablet computing with a keyboard attached the the tablet?
The PC isn't where you look for breaking technology. Their so mired in their "must support legacy" pathology you get slide out keyboards on touch aware phones. Apple doesn't have a problem leading consumers to where they need to be.
Another great post.
But your last point in particular is stretching quite a bit to prove the future viability of netbooks.
There are some important key differences between the netbook market and Apple's notebooks. Netbook are low cost low margin products spread across several companies. Apple's notebooks are premium cost with premium margin products and all of the revenue goes to one company.
Last year 11 million netbooks were sold at an average sale price of $350 for a total of $3.85 billion in revenue.
Last year Apple sold roughly 5 million notebooks at an average sale price of around $2000 for a total of $10 billion in revenue.
Look at it this way, more netbooks were sold worldwide last year than the total number of notebooks that Apple sold.
Anyone who says there is not a real market for netbooks might as well say there is no market for Apple.
Of course Apple's going to deliver something that runs OS X and has roughly an 8" screen or so.
You only need look at their recent actions.
Sarari 4- Tabs in the title bar preserving what 7 vertical pixels. My 24" doesn't need that extra vertical space but a 7-8" screen would.
Snow Leopard QT Player- Again ...transport controls and excessive border GONE.
Text Processing - Autocomplete and Autocorrection perfect for a virtual keyboard. Data Dectors for tapping dates and other bits of text and turning them into events and stored data.
Airport Express to MobileMe connection- Hello McFly! This isn't a huge feature for someone carrying around a laptop with a 200GB HDD but if you've got a tablet with a tiny 32GB SSD drive in it you need to leverage data sitting back at home. AE/Time Capsule with MobileMe "back to my Mac" was the starters pistol going off.
Multi-touch - four finger gestures coming and leveraging Cocoa Touch.
Tiny Keyboard- Didn't anyone wonder why Apple shrank the keyboard down so small? Could this keyboard be called "portable" ?
I'd be shocked if Apple DIDN'T deliver a small portable device. With MobileMe and iWork.com becoming more integral components to Apple's SAAS strategy the mobile tablet is going to be key.
Don't give me that crap about iPhone either. The engineering complexity of a phone is lightyears beyond the engineering complexity of a mobile tablet. The phone has to sip power or your end user is going to be pissed. You have more latitude for power and cooling in a MID or Tablet device.
This tablet could be based on ARM Cortex processing and PowerVR SGX graphics. Why not? It only really needs to run your typical lighter weight apps. My guess is that WWDC this year brings an Xcode that allows you to effectively target ARM for your more basic apps. Voila.
Another question. What's Apple doing with all of this NAND they're purchasing?
Why is Apple buying up the world's NAND Flash Memory?
Apple introduces NAND iShortage
Apple expects the next iPhone to do well I'm sure but I'm a wee bit doubtful that they expect it to do so well they've purchased up Samsung's inventory until April of this year.
Thank You!
That's exactly what I meant with the newer keyboard - much more portable than a typical keyboard and potentially a supplementary feature to a tablet (the combination creating a "netbook" of sorts)
that Always Innovating Touch Book idea (the name, too) could very well fit into that idea of taking a tablet and attaching a keyboard, but leaving the ability to be used independently.
I think Apple won't disappoint with the hardware
we all know they wont disappoint with the software
and I'm pretty sure they won't disappoint with the form
We all think Apple products are well made. Even in there most basic form, Apple products are still mid-range quality products. I have hope.
hmm.. i didnt think to look at the website
http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/home/index.htm
But your last point in particular is stretching quite a bit to prove the future viability of netbooks.
There are some important key differences between the netbook market and Apple's notebooks. Netbook are low cost low margin products spread across several companies. Apple's notebooks are premium cost with premium margin products and all of the revenue goes to one company.
Last year 11 million netbooks were sold at an average sale price of $350 for a total of $3.85 billion in revenue.
Last year Apple sold roughly 5 million notebooks at an average sale price of around $2000 for a total of $10 billion in revenue.
But the point is that they have been accepted into the market. That is not even up for debate.
And I was not talking about profit margins or sell prices, it is irrelevant in the point I was making. I am not trying to justify why Apple should or should not make a netbook. I am merely pointing out that netbooks are in fact good for what they are being bought for and that many people are actually already buying them. More so than Apple notebooks.
Airplanes, battery life, and coffee shops. You are working really hard to sell the advantage of netbooks.
I am not even sure what that is supposed to mean.
Working hard? In what way. You really do not believe that the portability and long battery life is not a reason why netbooks are popular? Of course they are key reasons why people are buying them.
The stupid thing is that the only reason why people come on here and argue against them is because Apple do not make them. The minute Apple release a netbook this forum will be full of people saying how great they are and how great Apple is for making the best one ever.
Always the same on these forums. It is very sad.
You really do not believe that the portability and long battery life is not a reason why netbooks are popular? Of course they are key reasons why people are buying them.
I think it's the very low price and the portability. I do have plenty of people, guys and girls who think they are so adorable. Never really get that with my MacBook. But I can't agree it's because of a "long battery life" as both my Acer Aspire One 1/6GHz witha 4-cell battery running WinXP and MSI Wind 1.8GHz with a 6-cell battery running Mac OSx86 have dismal battery life for a laptop PC.
The stupid thing is that the only reason why people come on here and argue against them is because Apple do not make them. The minute Apple release a netbook this forum will be full of people saying how great they are and how great Apple is for making the best one ever.
I don't think that is entirely true as stated. The physical design will be different aesthetically, structurally and, perhaps, performancely. It will also be using OS X. These are valid reasons why people will find it better than the current Linux and WinXP systems using 1G Atom CPUs on GMA950 IGPs on very, very poor displays and keyboards.
My netbooks have done what I needed them to do, but they are not, by any means, a replacement for a typical notebook. I don't see Apple getting into this market of small notebooks unless they include many features that aren't current included in today's netbook.
But the point is that they have been accepted into the market. That is not even up for debate.
At this point netbook hype far exceeds their real sales numbers. Its still to be seen whether they actually grow to a point of significant sales.
I am merely pointing out that netbooks are in fact good for what they are being bought for and that many people are actually already buying them. More so than Apple notebooks.
You stack the deck comparing sales of several vendors vs the sales of one vendor. Also netbooks and notebooks serve completely different uses.
Working hard? In what way. You really do not believe that the portability and long battery life is not a reason why netbooks are popular? Of course they are key reasons why people are buying them.
Netbooks aren't as popular as the hype machine makes them out to be. Tech media likes to trumpet netbook growth. That is largely because they have gone from near zero to a small percentage of computer marketshare. 11 million out of 270 million is not that popular.
The stupid thing is that the only reason why people come on here and argue against them is because Apple do not make them. The minute Apple release a netbook this forum will be full of people saying how great they are and how great Apple is for making the best one ever. Always the same on these forums. It is very sad.
I've never given an opinion whether Apple should or should not make a netbook. I'm simply looking at the reality of sales, revenues, and marketshare numbers. I'm sure if Apple made a netbook, it would be nothing like those from other PC vendors and it certainly would not cost $400.
Netbooks may well become more prominent player in the PC industry. I'm simply saying the sales and revenue projections clearly show today the real money is in notebooks and smartphones.
I could see Apple maybe doing a Vaio P type device, but even then, I think Apple would charge $1000 for it.
My guess, if Apple does come out with a netbook/tablet, they'll screw it up somehow, either by leaving out a particular port or feature everyone has, or making it too expensive, relative to it's intended use, like the MBA.
I could see Apple maybe doing a Vaio P type device, but even then, I think Apple would charge $1000 for it.
I disagree.
I think they'll create a device that will approach the Netbook category with class and aspire to be more than just a shrunken facsimile of a full sized notebook.
Some will hate it...some will love it and many will want it.
It will be marketed as a device that you simply MUST have MobileMe for.
My guess, if Apple does come out with a netbook/tablet, they'll screw it up somehow, either by leaving out a particular port or feature everyone has, or making it too expensive, relative to it's intended use, like the MBA.
Think about it. Apple has this enormous netbook pressure. Apple has this Kindle pressure. Historically Jobsman starts with "who needs video" and brings out ipod video. So I would think they are testing the waters with simply a comment loose while the fanbois go ra ra ra - the "funnest" ipod ... etc. you know what i mean - rather than putting out a product and failing. guess the mac cube hurt them a lot. (Incidently I am typing this message on one - 450mhz, tiger, 768mbram - the beast still works like billy O).
That said, I am crazy about apple and its products.
So I think they would cannibalize the ipod touch and make it a touchpad or a webpad. Slightly largish screen, a dock adapter, may be a usb port or two, could act as a monitor to the mac mini, connectable to the apple projector for presentations etc.
Am I dreaming or what !!!!
When the MacBook Air was introduced their were many sub-notebooks that cost just as much if not more. What notebook do you think is more appropriately priced with the same functionality of the Mac Book Air?
The Macbook.
It's only a whole 2 pounds heavier, but it has a DVD burner, better CPU, larger, faster HD, more ports, and same footprint.
I would think the MBA would make more since, if it was really smaller than the MB, like with an 11 or 12 inch screen, but it's just a thinner, slower MB. And with the recent aluminum MB, I see even less reason to get a MBA, other than it has a better screen than what the MB has, but I don't see that making up the $500 gap, as the MBA has a small SSD or a very slow SATA HD.
Maybe if I had money to burn, or was a fashionista, I'd be all over the MBA, but I rather have the white MB, the alu one, or a netbook.
The Macbook.
It's only a whole 2 pounds heavier, but it has a DVD burner, better CPU, larger, faster HD, more ports, and same footprint.
I would think the MBA would make more since, if it was really smaller than the MB, like with an 11 or 12 inch screen, but it's just a thinner, slower MB. And with the recent aluminum MB, I see even less reason to get a MBA, other than it has a better screen than what the MB has, but I don't see that making up the $500 gap, as the MBA has a small SSD or a very slow SATA HD.
Maybe if I had money to burn, or was a fashionista, I'd be all over the MBA, but I rather have the white MB, the alu one, or a netbook.
But to lose 1" to 2" off the display diagonal means reducing the footprint on the x and y plane. this means that the machine can no longer be as thin as it was before as you have to store the same internal components in a smaller footprint, assuming you want to keep the same dismal battery life. Then you have an issue with the keyboard on the width, though there should be enough room on the 12" to keep the current keyboard, though you'll have to beef up the construction on the sides to make sure it's a sound design, which may add some weight.
Personally, I would like to have seen such a device made, but with a larger battery that is closer to the MacBook's weight and even using a 2.5" HDD now that the device has been made thicker, but that obviously isn't Apple market focus. As much as I liked my 12" PowerBook everything indicates that it wasn't a great seller for Apple compared to their other notebooks, and would probably be worse when you consider that screens moved from 4:3 to 16:9 ratios which makes even the 12.1" displays having more vertical height than the 13.3" displays used today. The change in Safari 4 tabs does certainly help so I can imagine that it would not be well received to have even less space to read text, though as a video player it would be great.
The stupid thing is that the only reason why people come on here and argue against them is because Apple do not make them. The minute Apple release a netbook this forum will be full of people saying how great they are and how great Apple is for making the best one ever.
Always the same on these forums. It is very sad.
The conversation stopped making sense as soon as you presume motives. I'm not a fan of everything Apple does. I don't like their preference for selling locked phones around the World, for example, and I've said so right in this forum. I also have been critical of their environmental policies, which only recently have improved, and not enough.
But --and this is a reason I like Apple, and not the other way around--, I generally don't like cheap, loss-leader products, crappy design, knockoff "design" (such as MSI), and other aspects of the netbook phenomenon. I see it as a race to the bottom that should it spread will defund R&D in the computer industry, and lead to crappy products for many years to come.
I don't, in other words, like junk. Especially cheap junk. People are free to like junk and I sure won't hold it against them. But with so many junk suppliers, I see no need for Apple to become one more.
By the way. I use my MBA in a cafe three blocks away with 24" x 24" tables and it's not a problem.
I haven't flown with it, but I used to fly regularly with a 13.3" Sony Vaio a few years back and I managed fine. I don't see how my MBA could be worse. Sure, the angle is not ideal, but I wouldn't trade it for a smaller screen.
Apple will enter the portable computing space between the iPhone and the MBA, but hopefully they will do what they always do and look at it from every angle and come up with a unique, carefully conceived solution.
Time will tell.
My guess, if Apple does come out with a netbook/tablet, they'll screw it up somehow, either by leaving out a particular port or feature everyone has, or making it too expensive, relative to it's intended use, like the MBA.
This is my biggest fear as well. I really want an Apple netbook, but I shudder to think of what they might force us to accept. Apple's offerings lately have been a lot of bait and switch, with a lot of hoopla over some things while conveniently forgetting to mention how many other things have been downgraded or left right out. Their only response when people complain about what is missing seems to be "you don't need that".
You had a good solid point until your last sentence. Whether or not the Air is only suitable for fashionistas is your opinion. Your attempt to belittle the usefulness of the Air does not diminish the fact that to be fashionable is a billion dollar business
The Macbook.
It's only a whole 2 pounds heavier, but it has a DVD burner, better CPU, larger, faster HD, more ports, and same footprint.
I would think the MBA would make more since, if it was really smaller than the MB, like with an 11 or 12 inch screen, but it's just a thinner, slower MB. And with the recent aluminum MB, I see even less reason to get a MBA, other than it has a better screen than what the MB has, but I don't see that making up the $500 gap, as the MBA has a small SSD or a very slow SATA HD.
Maybe if I had money to burn, or was a fashionista, I'd be all over the MBA, but I rather have the white MB, the alu one, or a netbook.
This is my biggest fear as well. I really want an Apple netbook, but I shudder to think of what they might force us to accept. Apple's offerings lately have been a lot of bait and switch, with a lot of hoopla over some things while conveniently forgetting to mention how many other things have been downgraded or left right out. Their only response when people complain about what is missing seems to be "you don't need that".
Of course Apple's going to deliver something that runs OS X and has roughly an 8" screen or so.
Great post, hmurchison!
So you suggest the new Apple 'netbook' will run on ARM CPUs - just like the Touch Book.
I speculated about this a while ago too and concluded it's the only way for Apple to offer something substantially cheaper without cannibalizing its current Mac models.
You suggest, unlike the Touch Book, it will not come with a keyboard, but have the option to plug one in via USB. Yet adding one via USB is not nearly as smart as the Touch Book's setup.
But why not use Bluetooth? Apple already has a tiny Bluetooth keyboard. Why introduce a USB version? Probably means the new netbook will not have Bluetooth.
But that means no tethering with iPhones either! Which would seem like a no-brainer (with additional tethering data plan of course).
I really like the Touch Book's 3 internal USB slots. Smart. Just plug in your USB dongle/drive - and leave it there most of the time. Or add WiFi. Or 3G data modems.
But will Apple's netbook also have a 1024x600 display, or much less?
Somehow everyone expects Apple's netbook to be an overgrown iPod touch. But that's not nearly as smart as the Touch Book's hardware.
Will Apple innovate further?
One tech I'd like to add to the list:
The 17" MacBook Pro's smart battery. Might give the netbook 24 hour battery life.
I feel a bit sorry for the Touch Book guys. They try to create an 'iPod touch like netbook' for the masses - only to have Apple come in and steal the thunder (if the rumors are true)...
When is it coming?
My guess: introduction at WWDC as 'One More Thing', shipping in September - to give developers time to re-compile their software for ARM CPUs. It really would need to be WWDC IMHO as it is a completely new OSX platform.
One thing's not clear though:
If Apple were to introduce this in Q3, why would they purchase Samsung's April Flash production? With prices falling and economies declining, waiting a few months could only save them money. Especially if according to rumors productions will only start in Q3.