iPhone 3.0: 100 new features for users; 1,000 new APIs for devs

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  • Reply 121 of 170
    murphstermurphster Posts: 177member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Well, at least we seem to understand each other.



    I have to say though, that there are a lot of business apps that use the internet. It's not the same as browsing, but internet use is becoming important for business users. I'm not even talking about the generic web apps. Apps that sit on the phone and go through the internet for their services are on the iPhone in ever larger numbers, and a number of them are from big companies.



    RIM will have to deal with this too.



    But they do quite nicely, I work with a business class unified communications client that works on Blackberry's, Winmob and Symbian that works brilliantly, it just cannot work on the iPhone and the developers are nowhere near even trying until Apple sort out their shit.



    I did actually posts a response to the "60% of smartphone web traffic is iPhone" post that said a very similar thing to you. Web Browsing traffic is not the best measure, the browser is no longer the king of the net. I use plenty of web services on my BB without touching a browser. And I know the iPhone is the same, but without background apps its appeal is much more limited.



    I know there have been lots of comments about why you would need to be in two apps at the same time but this is not about that, this is about apps running quietly in the background, connected to the web and doing stuff without your input.
  • Reply 122 of 170
    cbswecbswe Posts: 116member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by parky View Post


    Just go away and don't bother posting here again.

    You are clearly just trying to wind people up with your idiotic posts.

    If you don't like the iPhone then why waste your time trying to put it down all the time.

    Could it be jealousy? There must be some emotion that is making you waste so much of your time posting comments about a product that you don't lie or want. How do you explain your posts?



    don't be rude. your post is a direct insult to me. _that_ is the kind of posts that does not belong in any kind of remotely serious community.

    what is a community? is it a place where everyone only says "I like this" and "I agree"? I'd like to think of it as a place for sharing views, debating and even learning. don't take the discussion down to some primitive flaming-at-each-other-nonsense. please read my posts more carefully if you think I'm a jerk and try to reconsider, because I am not.
  • Reply 123 of 170
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Murphster View Post


    I cannot imagine what I would bother for, I browse at my desk and email when I am out of the office (which is most of the time) but very, very rarely ever have the need during my day to browse the web on my phone. I am too busy.



    Google. I'v been in meetings where being able to google has been an advantage.



    Quote:

    Half the problem is that the iPhone is just too good of a playtime phone, trust me business prefer phones that are not so fun. I think that Apple could do worse than release an iPhone business model, with an email system as good and as secure as RIM's and maybe even with proper keys!! and tone down the fun side of it.



    Yes, because folks with blackberries don't travel and there are no games for the blackberry. What?



    http://www.bplay.com/



    Quote:

    But still, without the ability to run apps in the background, iPhone is nowhere yet. To be honest I don't think it ever will be, Apple just don't seem interested in the corporate world for their computers and as such will find it difficult to get their phones on peoples desks too.



    Yes, they don't care so much that they implemented ActiveSync, mentioned that JD Powers lists Apple tops for business user satisfaction for phones and had Oracle on stage with a relatively lame business status and CRM demo.



    Business may not be it's core focus but they do care.



    Quote:

    I used to have grand ideas of Apple taking on the corporate world but that dream is almost dead now, Apple are becoming more and more of a toy company everyday.



    Yah, right. iPhones are just toys.
  • Reply 124 of 170
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Murphster View Post


    I use plenty of web services on my BB without touching a browser. And I know the iPhone is the same, but without background apps its appeal is much more limited.



    I know there have been lots of comments about why you would need to be in two apps at the same time but this is not about that, this is about apps running quietly in the background, connected to the web and doing stuff without your input.



    Push notifications solve some of these cases and the processing happens on your server, not your small handheld device. The iPhone is used as a presentation of that new data which does require user input.



    There are several categories that push does not solve. Things like streaming radio or automatic downloads of new content. For those, entering the app is still required although you will get an indicator on the app that new content is available.



    But for many cases, push is sufficient.
  • Reply 125 of 170
    title should read "Apple Gets It's Shit Together With iPhone 3.0"



    truth be told, i hope we ALL know Apple's only reason for holding off on these updates like: MMS, Widescreen Keyboard, Copy/Paste.... is because they needed features to add to 3.0. they need a selling point for people to upgrade. the whole thing about them having issues to resolve before they could release it was total bs, it's all about marketing.



    however, i'm letting go of my gripes. it's coming out, so there's nothing to bitch about anymore, except the fact that it should have never taken this long. you wait and see though, we won't see a video camera until 4.0... meanwhile my Motorola Razer was recording video over 3 years ago.



    here's to hoping gets a little speedier with feature updates, instead of holding off as a marketing gimmick for the next generations. i'll just wait and see.



    side note: let's see accidental coverage too
  • Reply 126 of 170
    s8er01zs8er01z Posts: 144member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by realmike15 View Post


    title should read "Apple Gets It's Shit Together With iPhone 3.0"



    truth be told, i hope we ALL know Apple's only reason for holding off on these updates like: MMS, Widescreen Keyboard, Copy/Paste.... is because they needed features to add to 3.0. they need a selling point for people to upgrade. the whole thing about them having issues to resolve before they could release it was total bs, it's all about marketing.



    x2... not a big shock considering the first 2 year contracts are due in the near future and retainment is probably one of their top 5 priorities if not #1.
  • Reply 127 of 170
    hiimamachiimamac Posts: 584member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cbswe View Post


    that is why I put it in quotation marks.. it's not anything coming from me myself.. but in retrospect you are right.. the term should be used carefully



    So we, being Apple certified, get paid to maintain our equipment. That's right if my MacBook pro fails, I can log onto gsx get the part and someone at work will fix it while Apple pays us to do so. That being said, we got an email saying enjo, iPhone beta online only to read at the end " don't install unless you're a iPhone developer". What?!?! Will my phone explode if I install? Have a grew idea fir get. Should i pay $99 fir a kit? What will happen if I install. Will I brick my phone. What would you do. LOL.
  • Reply 128 of 170
    hiimamachiimamac Posts: 584member
    Great idea for a game. Great idea for a game. Silly iPhone virtual keyboard. LOL
  • Reply 129 of 170
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Murphster View Post


    I know there have been lots of comments about why you would need to be in two apps at the same time but this is not about that, this is about apps running quietly in the background, connected to the web and doing stuff without your input.



    http://www.apple.com/iphone/preview-iphone-os/



    On the keynote at about 22 minute mark they discuss background processes.



    "Why dont you just do background processes, it's easier to do background processes. The answer is it's bad for the customer."



    They did a test with an instant messaging process in background, and it dropped the battery life by 80% faster even without incoming messages. Different processes might drain battery at different rates, but all will drain more battery. All will eat up CPU cycles. All will suck up available RAM.



    There's simply no such thing as a background process running on a severely resource constrained device (battery, limited cpu and ram) running "quietly in the background."
  • Reply 130 of 170
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by realmike15 View Post


    truth be told, i hope we ALL know Apple's only reason for holding off on these updates like: MMS, Widescreen Keyboard, Copy/Paste.... is because they needed features to add to 3.0. they need a selling point for people to upgrade. the whole thing about them having issues to resolve before they could release it was total bs, it's all about marketing.



    however, i'm letting go of my gripes. it's coming out, so there's nothing to bitch about anymore, except the fact that it should have never taken this long. you wait and see though, we won't see a video camera until 4.0... meanwhile my Motorola Razer was recording video over 3 years ago.



    here's to hoping gets a little speedier with feature updates, instead of holding off as a marketing gimmick for the next generations. i'll just wait and see.



    side note: let's see accidental coverage too



    You are aware that the 3.0 software will run on the first generation iPhone? Only a few features won't work due to hardware differences between the original and 3G versions (specifically stereo bluetooth and MMS were mentioned).



    So if you have the 3G version (which far more people have than the original), you won't need to buy new hardware to use them. This is a software update, and it will be free to all iPhone users.



    Regarding "speedier with feature updates, instead of holding off as a marketing gimmick" Apple has never been about stuffing as many features into their products as possible for marketing bubble feature lists, they are about making products work well and be fun to use. It takes longer to develop features that work well and are fun to use than it takes to stuff them in there so they can be printed on the outside of a box.



    I totally agree with you on accidental coverage, tho I've been very careful with my original model and it has never been dropped and is still in good condition.
  • Reply 131 of 170
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,341member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Murphster View Post


    But they do quite nicely, I work with a business class unified communications client that works on Blackberry's, Winmob and Symbian that works brilliantly, it just cannot work on the iPhone and the developers are nowhere near even trying until Apple sort out their shit.



    I did actually posts a response to the "60% of smartphone web traffic is iPhone" post that said a very similar thing to you. Web Browsing traffic is not the best measure, the browser is no longer the king of the net. I use plenty of web services on my BB without touching a browser. And I know the iPhone is the same, but without background apps its appeal is much more limited.



    I know there have been lots of comments about why you would need to be in two apps at the same time but this is not about that, this is about apps running quietly in the background, connected to the web and doing stuff without your input.



    I understand the background argument. You can't have a proper security program work if it has to be called. There are other requirements for this in business as well.



    I feel that once Apple thinks it is advisable to do so, they will allow more background activity. They have their priorities. What IS interesting is that despite the limitations, the iPhone has already made big inroads into business, and will continue to do so.



    But I would disagree about the browser. It is still king, and will remain so.
  • Reply 132 of 170
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,341member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by S8ER01Z View Post


    x2... not a big shock considering the first 2 year contracts are due in the near future and retainment is probably one of their top 5 priorities if not #1.



    I really don't think that's meaningful.



    It seems that Apple is coming out with an updated, or new model every year, like all other phone manufacturers try to do, or for that matter, car companies, and just about all other industries.



    A new OS upgrade naturally follows.



    This is normal. To say they held back on features is pointless. They add them when they can get them working properly. Once a year upgrades to an OS is pretty damn good.



    How often do the other companies do this? Not very often! MS is totally screwed up. Look and see where their updates and upgrades have been going.



    The same for Palm. The WEB OS is the first new OS for them in almost ten years. The Palm OS has hardly been upgraded in all the years intervening.



    What about Symbian? Still the primitive OS it's always been, even though they've been trying to cram more features in. It's seen as being pretty creaky.



    Who else? nothing much until Android. but that still new. No one really knows how that's going to work out.



    And name another company that offers FREE major upgrades to its current customers with their old phones. No? That's because unlike all others so far, they make you buy a new phone to get the newer OS upgrade, even if it's half assed like Win Mobile 6.5.



    Apple is forcing them to change that as well.



    Complain about something real, because that's not it.
  • Reply 133 of 170
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    That's essentially the same reaction in the film/video world to anyone who dares to challenge RED's outrageous claims.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    He's a bit crazy. He made statements that his new vaporware would keep Canon and Nikon up nights, and that he would steal their market for professional cameras.



    When I asked him a question about how he thought he would compete with these Canon and Nikon models, be became verbally violent.



    The people on his forums are also vastly worse than the average Apple fanboy. They support every comment he makes, as from god. Talk about reality distortion fields!



  • Reply 134 of 170
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,341member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    That's essentially the same reaction in the film/video world to anyone who dares to challenge RED's outrageous claims.



    It's sad really.



    I was wondering if you would comment.
  • Reply 135 of 170
    s8er01zs8er01z Posts: 144member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I really don't think that's meaningful.



    It seems that Apple is coming out with an updated, or new model every year, like all other phone manufacturers try to do, or for that matter, car companies, and just about all other industries.



    A new OS upgrade naturally follows.



    This is normal. To say they held back on features is pointless. They add them when they can get them working properly. Once a year upgrades to an OS is pretty damn good.



    How often do the other companies do this? Not very often! MS is totally screwed up. Look and see where their updates and upgrades have been going.



    The same for Palm. The WEB OS is the first new OS for them in almost ten years. The Palm OS has hardly been upgraded in all the years intervening.



    What about Symbian? Still the primitive OS it's always been, even though they've been trying to cram more features in. It's seen as being pretty creaky.



    Who else? nothing much until Android. but that still new. No one really knows how that's going to work out.



    And name another company that offers FREE major upgrades to its current customers with their old phones. No? That's because unlike all others so far, they make you buy a new phone to get the newer OS upgrade, even if it's half assed like Win Mobile 6.5.



    Apple is forcing them to change that as well.



    Complain about something real, because that's not it.



    Well I will file it away under 'big coincedence' for now... but i won't rule it out completely. FWIW other phones don't really have a need to push big updates.. the phones I've used in the past simply had all of these simple things from the start and they worked. (minus copy paste which is still something that I don't believe was a deal breaker).



    Actually my Nokia and Samsung phones didn't need a reboot every couple days to keep funtioning either.. my Iphone and Iphone 3G both seemed to be plauged by little annoying bugs. (Like when I goto answer a call and the call dissapears from the screen but it keeps ringing over and over again with no way to answer unitl I power the device off...I love that one)
  • Reply 136 of 170
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,341member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by S8ER01Z View Post


    Well I will file it away under 'big coincedence' for now... but i won't rule it out completely. FWIW other phones don't really have a need to push big updates.. the phones I've used in the past simply had all of these simple things from the start and they worked. (minus copy paste which is still something that I don't believe was a deal breaker).



    Actually my Nokia and Samsung phones didn't need a reboot every couple days to keep funtioning either.. my Iphone and Iphone 3G both seemed to be plauged by little annoying bugs. (Like when I goto answer a call and the call dissapears from the screen but it keeps ringing over and over again with no way to answer unitl I power the device off...I love that one)



    Saying that you didn't NEED to buy a new phone because you had everything you wanted is a bit unrelated to your argument now.



    Older phones didn't do much to begin with, and that goes for the old smartphones. If you wanted any new features, you needed to buy a new phone. Period!



    As Apple is very late to the game, its only natural that they are going to take a while to add some very important, but difficult features to implement, as all other companies did, but much earlier.



    It's easy to forget the complaints people had about those others before they had the features implemented. It took MS and Palm almost four years to come out with cut and paste, and Nokia took almost as long.



    Palm is using their experience in the new phone, and we'll see how good it really is. Google is using the experience from the Linux phone OS that's been around for a while as well. We'll see how that does.



    Apple is coming out with it two years after the phone is out, which is actually a pretty good record when compared to how the rest of the industry handled it.



    All my Palmphones needed regular reboots. They crashed every few days as well. Windows phones also need constant rebooting. Sometimes several times a day if a fair amount of programs are present. They crash with regularity.



    Nokia's Symbian OS is old, and not very good. It's been pushed beyond its intended limits, and Nokia knows it's on the way out, which is why they bought it, and released it as open software, hoping desperately, that others will take it up and develop it further. But the development tools are so bad, and they are constantly being criticized over that, that it doesn't seem likely. Companies are abandoning it all over, maybe in favor of Android. Marketshare is also sharply down, and moving down quickly.



    I wonder why?
  • Reply 137 of 170
    s8er01zs8er01z Posts: 144member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Saying that you didn't NEED to buy a new phone because you had everything you wanted is a bit unrelated to your argument now.



    Older phones didn't do much to begin with, and that goes for the old smartphones. If you wanted any new features, you needed to buy a new phone. Period!



    As Apple is very late to the game, its only natural that they are going to take a while to add some very important, but difficult features to implement, as all other companies did, but much earlier.



    It's easy to forget the complaints people had about those others before they had the features implemented. It took MS and Palm almost four years to come out with cut and paste, and Nokia took almost as long.



    Palm is using their experience in the new phone, and we'll see how good it really is. Google is using the experience from the Linux phone OS that's been around for a while as well. We'll see how that does.



    Apple is coming out with it two years after the phone is out, which is actually a pretty good record when compared to how the rest of the industry handled it.



    All my Palmphones needed regular reboots. They crashed every few days as well. Windows phones also need constant rebooting. Sometimes several times a day if a fair amount of programs are present. They crash with regularity.



    Nokia's Symbian OS is old, and not very good. It's been pushed beyond its intended limits, and Nokia knows it's on the way out, which is why they bought it, and released it as open software, hoping desperately, that others will take it up and develop it further. But the development tools are so bad, and they are constantly being criticized over that, that it doesn't seem likely. Companies are abandoning it all over, maybe in favor of Android. Marketshare is also sharply down, and moving down quickly.



    I wonder why?



    Very true and great points ... I upgrade everything in cycle.. just riding the 2 year contract bubble until I see something I want.. in basic funtionality I never had a problem (like I said all of my previous phones contained the basics, phone, contact manager, MMS,SMS and basic email support) is it too much to expect of a 'better' phone to have the basics? For me it all comes down to basics...the Iphone does have a massive list of things over my old phones but that doesn't take away from the frustration I have with it missing features. Then when they do add the features I find out they are severely crippled... (Someone over at Apple actually thinks AT&T has really good 3G coverage apparently..haha)
  • Reply 138 of 170
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    I'm suspicious of claims like this. I haven't seen a computing device that did not need reboots. Even people who claim they've run OS X for six months without a reboot. I tell them it would run much better if you'd done a reboot in that time.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by S8ER01Z View Post


    Actually my Nokia and Samsung phones didn't need a reboot every couple days to keep funtioning either..



  • Reply 139 of 170
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,341member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by S8ER01Z View Post


    Very true and great points ... I upgrade everything in cycle.. just riding the 2 year contract bubble until I see something I want.. in basic funtionality I never had a problem (like I said all of my previous phones contained the basics, phone, contact manager, MMS,SMS and basic email support) is it too much to expect of a 'better' phone to have the basics? For me it all comes down to basics...the Iphone does have a massive list of things over my old phones but that doesn't take away from the frustration I have with it missing features. Then when they do add the features I find out they are severely crippled... (Someone over at Apple actually thinks AT&T has really good 3G coverage apparently..haha)



    To take things backward, you can't hold Apple to task for the carrier's problems. That was a complex subject, and going with GSM allowed Apple to easily get into markets that would have been difficult, and more expensive, to penetrate otherwise.



    Which brings up Nokia again. You do know that they discontinued all phones for the Japanese market because they couldn't compete, and they announced they were stopping all development for that market? The also announced another group of firings around the world, 1,700 more. This includes R&D people and development people. Not a good sign.



    Which features are "severely crippled". Or are you just making that statement because it sounds good in a generic way?



    Just consider that when Apple GIVES AWAY this new OS 3.0 upgrade, all older phones, including the first gen discontinued phone will be able to use it, other than for what needs newer hardware. 90% of the features will work (MMS won't).



    When the current phone is discontinued this summer, the OS will work for them.



    Apple is taking the chance that they will lose millions of phone sales, and the considerable amount of profit from it, to GIVE away new software. Who else has been doing that?



    This is called "good will". It's smart.
  • Reply 140 of 170
    s8er01zs8er01z Posts: 144member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    To take things backward, you can't hold Apple to task for the carrier's problems. That was a complex subject, and going with GSM allowed Apple to easily get into markets that would have been difficult, and more expensive, to penetrate otherwise.



    Which brings up Nokia again. You do know that they discontinued all phones for the Japanese market because they couldn't compete, and they announced they were stopping all development for that market? The also announced another group of firings around the world, 1,700 more. This includes R&D people and development people. Not a good sign.



    Which features are "severely crippled". Or are you just making that statement because it sounds good in a generic way?



    Just consider that when Apple GIVES AWAY this new OS 3.0 upgrade, all older phones, including the first gen discontinued phone will be able to use it, other than for what needs newer hardware. 90% of the features will work (MMS won't).



    When the current phone is discontinued this summer, the OS will work for them.



    Apple is taking the chance that they will lose millions of phone sales, and the considerable amount of profit from it, to GIVE away new software. Who else has been doing that?



    This is called "good will". It's smart.



    The MMS feature will be severely crippled...



    MMS which has been around for a while on AT&Ts own network worked fine on their Edge network.. it still works with other phones daily... but for whatever reason even if you have a 3G phone (Which I own both) the MMS feature will only work if it has a 3G connection. Now even in the middle of downtown Chicago my Iphone will kick in and out of 3G mode... basically the feature will be broken more often than it is working considering the limited 3G network. Move outside of the Chicago city limits and 3G coverage becomes a screen with holes in it everwhere... a number of miles outside of Chicago and 3G is gone then all the way acrossed the state in the Quad Cities area is picks up again leaving an entire void in the middle where MMS support will be nil. Seems crippled to me..but what do I know.



    It's really a mixed bag... I do like the fact that updates are free and add new features but it seems like they are taking approaches that don't make sense and simply telling people 'this is just how it works' with no real answers.



    Maybe this is the norm for Apple
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