What photo editing software that is included with the Dell for the price of purchase doesn't suck more than iPhoto?
I'm pretty sure anyone with half a brain can download Picasa for free.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610
This is the magic formula. Plain and simple. Well put.
It isn't well put. If someone is completely priced out of the experience, then they have no means of entering and continuing to desire the experience. I may think that the hotels in Vegas offering cheap facades of other famous places around the planet are radically inferior to the actual places. However if the only place I could afford to go was Vegas and not travel to say, Europe, I won't have the basis of comparison to know what is better.
Apple isn't pricing themselves comparable to the market but rather out of the market. Their current customers will justify the price because of the experience but they need new blood all the time as does any platform. The kid buying his first laptop for college isn't going to drop $2500 versus $800 on an unknown. They don't have the money to purchase twice if they have made a mistake. Apple needs something to hook them in at a reasonable price. They used to do it with proprietary hardware that might not have even benefitted from the economics of scale. How they do have those advantages and still just run up the price.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjer
Macs grow obsolete at a slower pace than cheap PCs bought at a Best Buy. I'm not sure if I'm in the minority, but I buy Macs and do my best to get my money's worth. I had a B&W G3 for almost 7 years that required one $80 repair before getting my current MacBook. Sure, I'm not a "power user" so I can be content not having the latest specs, but I don't know of many PCs that last that long without serious problems. In the end, I need to replace my Mac less often than I would need to fix or upgrade a PC. In addition, it costs a whole lot less to take advantage of new features in a new Mac OS, if I'm willing to skip a version or two. Sure, if you need a 17" computer NOW and only have $1,000, you might be in trouble, but if you're looking for value, invest in a Mac and save money later.
While I agree to a certain degree, I simply think most PC folks replace at a faster rate since they are cheaper. At my work I have a Dell Latitude D600 which is considered reasonable old. It does just fine. I have two newer PC towers in my room but also two machines running XP and even NT that still do what they are supposed to do. My mother browses the web and types up legal documents in Word Perfect. Her PC is Pentium II class (around 800 mhz) and works just fine.
In my home I just retired two Pentium II class mini-towers that my boys were using. They both worked just fine. I gave one my wife's old G4 tower with a processor upgrade(originally G4@450) and the other my 2 ghz AMD tower that also ran just fine.
If you keep a house reasonably clean and non-smoking all this stuff should run for a good long while. This is true of both sides for the most part. I've never had trouble with PC's failing that didn't involve little boys seeing what happens when you twist the capacitors off.
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Originally Posted by digitalclips
I disagree, I think Macs are priced well for what you get. You have to take into account more than initial price. What about longevity, 'uptime', lack of support issues etc. etc. etc.
For example, there are numerous Macs including the latest 8 Core Mac Pro in the next room used for my work but I am typing this on my stock, bottom of the line G4 iBook, sitting at the breakfast table. This G4 iBook is running Leopard 10.5.6 and used for Mail, Safari and iWork and works as flawlessly (on my .11g wi-fi used by iPhones) as the day I bought it. I have lost track of its age. Its initial price therefore has to be amortized over a heck of a lot of years and the daily use I have had out of it. The cheaper PC Laptops from the year my iBook was made are now where I wonder and if they still run what version of M$ OS can they run?
A friend of mine after bragging his Acer Laptop only cost $400 admitted the 'dealer' in Canada put on illegal versions of Office and other stuff (all included in the $400 of course) and since he has owned it (three years) he has paid over $500 in charges to get it working again after software nightmares caused by various updates.
I rest my case
p.s. To the trolls ... this is why 'Mac Fans' exist ... get it?
Tell your friend to download and install Ubuntu for free and he can have Open Office, a great OS and use Firefox for all his browsing. He can do this even if he uses Windows. I keep plenty of older PC hardware running just handing out Ubuntu cd's. I own and use a MacBook Pro but that doesn't change the fact that this hardware doesn't fail. People might become frustrated with some bad tech support or pirate software but a cd can fix that. The hardware itself isn't bad. Hand them an Ubuntu disk and keep it out of a landfill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac
To me the add works in pointing out that there is greater variety and cheaper prices with pcs.
But, IMO, they blew it when she talked about how she wasn't cool enough to get a Mac. She said it almost wistfully. If she would have said it in a clearly mocking tone it might have worked. If she would have just walked out of the Apple store mad that they only had one laptop under 1k THAT might have ben the best response. I felt sorry for her that she couldn't afford a Mac.
Now some will argue that the add agency who made this had no control over how a 'real' person would act in this reality add, but according to Gruber this girl was an actress. I suspect this add was scripted like any other add.
Perhaps it was targeted for a precise reason. I'm constantly shocked at the little monologues I hear people engage in and the weird financial rationalizations they use in their activities. The same person who bought the granite countertops will now be the idiot saying "It's time to not be cool and save some money." Never underestimate the ability of the sheeple to disappoint.
Microsoft should be careful with these ads... After watching this one, and then reading about how things were set up, it actually promotes Apple products. Here's how I see it:
She went into an Apple store FIRST. It was her FIRST choice, even though they were more expensive, she still preferred to have a Mac. Kinda shows how the Apple brand sits in people's heads, eh?
After she couldn't get a Mac, she had to "settle" for a sub-par PC laptop...
What photo editing software that is included with the Dell for the price of purchase doesn't suck more than iPhoto?
Picasa is miles above iPhoto IMO, and it runs on my Mac, Windows, and Linux (well, through Wine) just fine. Not sure if it comes with the Dell, but it's a free download.
I don't like how iPhoto handles photo libraries, I find it slow with more than a few GBs of photos, it's slower than Picasa, and it doesn't integrate into Picasa online, although that's to be expected, since iPhoto isn't from Google.
And that's when working with RAW, which Picasa even does pretty well on my netbook, iPhoto spends too much CPU time, drawing pretty Core Image animations. I would blame the GMA 950, but that's what my netbook uses as well, and Picasa runs fine on both Windows (XP and 7) and OSX with the Mini.
I love how Microsoft doesn't assign value to their operating system.
It's just a featureless component at the heart of a collection of cheap technologies. This is exactly what they want. They want consumers to walk in with a laundry list of features and shop based on these features because they know at Best Buy they are on %95 of all computers.
With Apple they promote what you can do with your computer and the funny thing is that everytime you see an Apple product odds are the users behind the product enjoy and leverage their product in the form of consuming content.
iPhone users regarless of their computing platform consume a lot of software. Mac users buy a disproportionate amount of software.
So when I see some obsessing about the "little" stuff like eSATA ports or card readers it strikes me as odd because the real crux of efficiency is the OS and Vista and it's replacement Windows 7 cannot match Apple I don't give a damn what anyone says.
Mac users pay a premium to compute on OS X ...Windows is there by default and for years companies and users alike were downgrading Vista boxes to XP. That speaks volumes as to how they value Microsoft's OS.
Picasa is miles above iPhoto IMO, and it runs on my Mac, Windows, and Linux (well, through Wine) just fine. Not sure if it comes with the Dell, but it's a free download.
That was a good one. Made my friday. If you need support on windows and linux then Picasa or some other too is your friend but if we're talking about strictly a Mac environment iPhoto stomps on Picasa in most areas save for speed and those who are finicky about managing their file hierarchy. I would not recommend Mac users utilize Picasa over iPhoto 09 unless they had specific needs (like storing/retrieving photos from a NAS or cross platform issues)
iPhoto is far easier to manage with Events, Google Earth is ironically much better supported, Geo tagging is a piece of cake and tagging is easier than ever. Picasa used to look good 4 years ago...times moved on. Google needs to do something.
The above comparisons are somewhat more fair than the one in the television ad (which is based on a lie about screen resolutions), even when you add the approximately $120 for Vista Ultimate instead of the crippled Home Premium I assume they all come with.
Its funny that mac has been attacking microsoft for years and when microsoft finally fights back this site goes crazy.
I don't think people here are going "crazy". And I, for one, have no problem with Microsoft 'attacking' Apple if they want to. I just think that spending tons of money on an ad campaign (particularly this example) that emphasises price is a little pointless.
Everyone knows that there is a much wider range of PCs out there.
Everyone already knows that there are cheap PCs out there.
PC to Mac switchers are probably not the bargain basement brigade.
This ad really is preaching to the converted.... not only that but it really is doing the OEMs a disservice. Think about it! In reality there are actually lots of 17" PC laptops that cost over $1000.00. Yet this ad encourages the viewer to buy the cheaper (less OEM profit) version while Microsoft walks away with their usual fee.
I don't care if Microsoft or their agency think these are negative... I think it's a mistake to show... her first choice is an Apple store .... and saying she's not cool enough just reinforces the Apple "cool".
That NYT.com banner ad says more than this commercial .... and a its a lot cheaper too!
It isn't well put. If someone is completely priced out of the experience, then they have no means of entering and continuing to desire the experience. I may think that the hotels in Vegas offering cheap facades of other famous places around the planet are radically inferior to the actual places. However if the only place I could afford to go was Vegas and not travel to say, Europe, I won't have the basis of comparison to know what is better.
Apple isn't pricing themselves comparable to the market but rather out of the market. Their current customers will justify the price because of the experience but they need new blood all the time as does any platform. The kid buying his first laptop for college isn't going to drop $2500 versus $800 on an unknown. They don't have the money to purchase twice if they have made a mistake. Apple needs something to hook them in at a reasonable price. They used to do it with proprietary hardware that might not have even benefitted from the economics of scale. How they do have those advantages and still just run up the price.
Apple caters to the premium end of the market, not the $400 Dell segment. You assume the entire market reflects YOU. It doesn't.
So, like some have noticed, what some call a premium price, I call quality parts. Now let put as the price comparison of price which I will address in the end. Anyone knows that Apple's laptops start with a determined decision in matching user experience (user desired features, reliability, weight, style, etc.) with cost effectiveness. Now let look at a laptop from Apple. For this purpose I will use the base models of the 13in Macbook and the 17in Macbook Pro to show how cheaper is not better and what she has decided to give-up by putting price over quality. The woman in the video buys the 699 HP Pavilion Laptop with AMD Turion X2 RM-72 Dual Core Mobile Processor-with a Bronze/Chrome finish because nothing say stay like bronze and shiny chrome. It looks meh. Both Mac's look way better. Anyone can see that.
In terms of mobility, I don't know of anyone that would consider any 17in laptop portable. I have always thought of them as mobile desktops because of battery life concerns running hardware too heavy for it to be useable. That said, she choose a bulky (11.2"x15.6"x1.7") and heavy(7.8lbs) computer compared to the MB (8.94"X12.78"x0.95") and 4.5lbs and MBP's (10.51"x15.47"x0.98") and 6.6lbs. I think that anyone without good reason should avoid 17 laptops, but she insisted. I don't think her back will be happy after a few trips.
She has an AMD processor. AMD is a bit behind the time in terms of performance per watt. I wonder if see noticed that? Apple stacks top of the line processors sometimes being the premiere system featuring new processors. Releases of new systems can normally be planned around Intel's release schedule. Intel is ahead of AMD in terms of processors. If Apple wanted to compete in that market, they could use last years technology. 2 and 3 year old processors could shave off those dollars. Use old system cards with low bus speeds and tiny caches. Processor speed sounds impressive until your look at the things surrounding it. Her system has 2.1GHz, with 1MB of L2 cache with 4GB DDR2. The MB 2.0GHz, 3MB L2 cache, 2GB DDR3 and MBP 2.66GHz, 6MB L2 cache with 4GB of DDR3. Good enough for today verses prepared for tomorrow.
Hard drive are another matter. HP uses the cheapest large hard drives out there. Apple provides the best hard drives with sudden drop sensors with 8MB cache buffers on disk sets with faster throughput.
Media card reader are like nice to have but never necessary. If you need one on you at all times, then that is a plus, otherwise it is added tech that you won't use often. Video cards make the system sound way outdated. ATI doesn't even bother listing the HD3200 on their site it is so old. Apple uses MB 256MB GDDR3 Nvidia GP, and the MPB uses 2 different GPUs for battery verse performance concerns, and both are GDDR3 256MB verses the 512MB.
She wanted a 17 in screen, but seemed to ignore screen resolution. Her HP has 1280X800 verse the MB(1280x800) and MBP 1920x1200 (thats true HD capable and much more screen usage). I'll take this time to point out that the 15in MBP has better resolution than her 17in HP. Note, the Best Buy site is listing the external monitor size as the internal monitor size, a little deceptive if you ask me. What she can see on her 17in screen she could view all the same content on a 13in MB and more on larger screens.
HP has a modem. Anyone using a modem... well it is upsetting to say the least if someone must suffer like that. It also does not have a Gb ethernet jacks and only supports wireless B and G. I am convinced she enjoys living in life 3 years ago... Macs comes standard with Gb ethernet, access to A/B/G/N networks. The MBP comes with a firewire 800 and a PCI-expansion slot for additional versatility.
Battery life which is a major point of a laptop. The HP has 2.5 hours. The MB 5 hrs and MBP 8 hrs. The Mac has a multi-touch trackpad. It comes with OSX which is better protected against viruses and malware for average users that can slow or corrupt a system. In addition to the OS being way better and faster than Vista's resource hog, the added software of iLife is celebrated for its ease of use and power. There is no comparing iMovie, iPhoto, or Garageband to anything out there in the consumer range.
The woman should also know that her HP will probably die after her one year warranty is up or a year from then. She will wonder in 2 years why her computer is so much slower than the rest of the computers out there. When she goes to throw out her computer, she will be hurting the environment, because her computer contains so many harmful components. The Mac is design with carbon footprint in mind, from the packaging, battery disposal, recycling, having LED backlit screens. I mean look at the size of the box for her computer.
I will close with this little nugget of explanation. In January of 2007 I bought a 15in MBP. It has a 2.16GHz core 2 Duo Intel processor, 4MB L2 cache support for Wireless A/B/G/N, 3GB of DDR2 SDRAM, 1440x900 Native display, a PCI-X expansion slot, Firewire 400 and 800, and a backlit keyboard along with other features. I am willing to say that a computer that came out in late 2006 is better than what that woman bought in 2009. On Craigslist, one person is listing theirs for 1100 and the other person is listing theirs for 1200. Mac maintain their value better than other brands. What I am saying is that when the time come for her to get a new computer, it is likely that hers will either no longer work or it will be close to worthless.
I agree but I bet like me you agonize once in a while over the choices from Apple ... a new MacPro and a MacBook or perhaps a MacBook Pro and a second 24" LCD Monitor, it's sooo hard to choose at times... even if it's fantasy some days
Hehe . . . do I get an updated white Macbook to play with, or do I go for real portability and get an Air? Maybe a Mini to complement my current MBP? Do I go for a midrange MBP or loaded Macbook? THESE are the kinds of choices I love. All great quality, but very, very simple and straightforward. And all designed to run OS X flawlessly. The same kind of integration across the board, the same environment.
It's just strange to see Microsoft on the defensive. They are still the leader in terms of sales and volume, but are acting like the little guy. Every attempt to ding the competition just knocks them down a notch in my book.
Yes, I spent $3500 on my 17" MBP, but I have confidence and a peace of mind that it will not fail and I will be able to keep it for at least 5 years and pass it on to my kids. The MBP replaced my ten year old B&W G3 tower, that still works perfectly fine.
I have found Macs to be reliable overall, but a bad disk can happen to anybody, no matter how good the drive supplier is. That's what Time Machine is for.
That said, integrators such as Apple can choose different reliability ratings (MTBF) for the drives they buy. Obviously the cheaper models have lower MTBF figures. I'm not sure what criteria Apple uses, but they use several brands of drives, including Hitachi.
I find it all comical. I know someone who recently purchased a shinny new DELL [by the way, I used to swear by these things]. They asked if I'd go over and help them set it up, and install some software they had; nothing fancy, Office, etc. After 2 1/2 hours of running update this and that. Apply this SP, and that patch. And finally the ever dreaded AV/Anti-Spy/Anit-Malware suite, I was done. I never noticed how noisy they were until then either...
I was never so happy to go home to my trusty MB an 20"iMac. Clean, Quiet...aahhhh...it was truly ZEN. My point? I paid a little more for each, but in the end...a much better, overall experience.
"I shopped for a new car and I found a Nova for under 10, 000." So what if has plastic seats full of formaldehyde, the transmission will conk out after 35k, the owners manuel sucks, the thing chugs up hills and you have to shift/grind all three gears!. Then there is the frustration of getting questions when the dealer forwards your calls to India. "Where is the hood release? I can't find the hood release!" answer: "Da boot release is beneath the ancillary cabinet. Is there anyting else I con hellp you wit?"
I do have to agree though that for the first time is several years the Mac line up is looking seriously overpriced. There are lots of perfectly sound arguments for premium pricing in a recession but my loyalty is being a little tested. Getting a PC would be unthinkable, but delaying purchases isn't.
The recession is irrelevant. Either you can afford a Mac or you can't. It's that simple. People who have secure jobs shouldn't care if we are in a recession or not with respect to purchasing things. And while unemployment is high and some jobs are at risk, there are still a lot of people who can afford a Mac.
The only effect this will have on Apple is lame fodder for PC fanboys on Internet forums.
So when I see some obsessing about the "little" stuff like...card readers it strikes me as odd
Lots of people complain about that, but I just plug my digital camera in via USB and iPhoto imports all the pics no problem. Why would I need some mega card reader? How many different devices does the average consumer have? Esp considering most use either SD or micro SD.
Comments
What photo editing software that is included with the Dell for the price of purchase doesn't suck more than iPhoto?
I'm pretty sure anyone with half a brain can download Picasa for free.
This is the magic formula. Plain and simple. Well put.
It isn't well put. If someone is completely priced out of the experience, then they have no means of entering and continuing to desire the experience. I may think that the hotels in Vegas offering cheap facades of other famous places around the planet are radically inferior to the actual places. However if the only place I could afford to go was Vegas and not travel to say, Europe, I won't have the basis of comparison to know what is better.
Apple isn't pricing themselves comparable to the market but rather out of the market. Their current customers will justify the price because of the experience but they need new blood all the time as does any platform. The kid buying his first laptop for college isn't going to drop $2500 versus $800 on an unknown. They don't have the money to purchase twice if they have made a mistake. Apple needs something to hook them in at a reasonable price. They used to do it with proprietary hardware that might not have even benefitted from the economics of scale. How they do have those advantages and still just run up the price.
Macs grow obsolete at a slower pace than cheap PCs bought at a Best Buy. I'm not sure if I'm in the minority, but I buy Macs and do my best to get my money's worth. I had a B&W G3 for almost 7 years that required one $80 repair before getting my current MacBook. Sure, I'm not a "power user" so I can be content not having the latest specs, but I don't know of many PCs that last that long without serious problems. In the end, I need to replace my Mac less often than I would need to fix or upgrade a PC. In addition, it costs a whole lot less to take advantage of new features in a new Mac OS, if I'm willing to skip a version or two. Sure, if you need a 17" computer NOW and only have $1,000, you might be in trouble, but if you're looking for value, invest in a Mac and save money later.
While I agree to a certain degree, I simply think most PC folks replace at a faster rate since they are cheaper. At my work I have a Dell Latitude D600 which is considered reasonable old. It does just fine. I have two newer PC towers in my room but also two machines running XP and even NT that still do what they are supposed to do. My mother browses the web and types up legal documents in Word Perfect. Her PC is Pentium II class (around 800 mhz) and works just fine.
In my home I just retired two Pentium II class mini-towers that my boys were using. They both worked just fine. I gave one my wife's old G4 tower with a processor upgrade(originally G4@450) and the other my 2 ghz AMD tower that also ran just fine.
If you keep a house reasonably clean and non-smoking all this stuff should run for a good long while. This is true of both sides for the most part. I've never had trouble with PC's failing that didn't involve little boys seeing what happens when you twist the capacitors off.
I disagree, I think Macs are priced well for what you get. You have to take into account more than initial price. What about longevity, 'uptime', lack of support issues etc. etc. etc.
For example, there are numerous Macs including the latest 8 Core Mac Pro in the next room used for my work but I am typing this on my stock, bottom of the line G4 iBook, sitting at the breakfast table. This G4 iBook is running Leopard 10.5.6 and used for Mail, Safari and iWork and works as flawlessly (on my .11g wi-fi used by iPhones) as the day I bought it. I have lost track of its age. Its initial price therefore has to be amortized over a heck of a lot of years and the daily use I have had out of it. The cheaper PC Laptops from the year my iBook was made are now where I wonder and if they still run what version of M$ OS can they run?
A friend of mine after bragging his Acer Laptop only cost $400 admitted the 'dealer' in Canada put on illegal versions of Office and other stuff (all included in the $400 of course) and since he has owned it (three years) he has paid over $500 in charges to get it working again after software nightmares caused by various updates.
I rest my case
p.s. To the trolls ... this is why 'Mac Fans' exist ... get it?
Tell your friend to download and install Ubuntu for free and he can have Open Office, a great OS and use Firefox for all his browsing. He can do this even if he uses Windows. I keep plenty of older PC hardware running just handing out Ubuntu cd's. I own and use a MacBook Pro but that doesn't change the fact that this hardware doesn't fail. People might become frustrated with some bad tech support or pirate software but a cd can fix that. The hardware itself isn't bad. Hand them an Ubuntu disk and keep it out of a landfill.
To me the add works in pointing out that there is greater variety and cheaper prices with pcs.
But, IMO, they blew it when she talked about how she wasn't cool enough to get a Mac. She said it almost wistfully. If she would have said it in a clearly mocking tone it might have worked. If she would have just walked out of the Apple store mad that they only had one laptop under 1k THAT might have ben the best response. I felt sorry for her that she couldn't afford a Mac.
Now some will argue that the add agency who made this had no control over how a 'real' person would act in this reality add, but according to Gruber this girl was an actress. I suspect this add was scripted like any other add.
Perhaps it was targeted for a precise reason. I'm constantly shocked at the little monologues I hear people engage in and the weird financial rationalizations they use in their activities. The same person who bought the granite countertops will now be the idiot saying "It's time to not be cool and save some money." Never underestimate the ability of the sheeple to disappoint.
It is an ad. As in short for advertisement. "Add" is a verb that describes what you do when you put two things together.
My bad.
She went into an Apple store FIRST. It was her FIRST choice, even though they were more expensive, she still preferred to have a Mac. Kinda shows how the Apple brand sits in people's heads, eh?
After she couldn't get a Mac, she had to "settle" for a sub-par PC laptop...
What photo editing software that is included with the Dell for the price of purchase doesn't suck more than iPhoto?
Picasa is miles above iPhoto IMO, and it runs on my Mac, Windows, and Linux (well, through Wine) just fine. Not sure if it comes with the Dell, but it's a free download.
I don't like how iPhoto handles photo libraries, I find it slow with more than a few GBs of photos, it's slower than Picasa, and it doesn't integrate into Picasa online, although that's to be expected, since iPhoto isn't from Google.
And that's when working with RAW, which Picasa even does pretty well on my netbook, iPhoto spends too much CPU time, drawing pretty Core Image animations. I would blame the GMA 950, but that's what my netbook uses as well, and Picasa runs fine on both Windows (XP and 7) and OSX with the Mini.
It's just a featureless component at the heart of a collection of cheap technologies. This is exactly what they want. They want consumers to walk in with a laundry list of features and shop based on these features because they know at Best Buy they are on %95 of all computers.
With Apple they promote what you can do with your computer and the funny thing is that everytime you see an Apple product odds are the users behind the product enjoy and leverage their product in the form of consuming content.
iPhone users regarless of their computing platform consume a lot of software. Mac users buy a disproportionate amount of software.
So when I see some obsessing about the "little" stuff like eSATA ports or card readers it strikes me as odd because the real crux of efficiency is the OS and Vista and it's replacement Windows 7 cannot match Apple I don't give a damn what anyone says.
Mac users pay a premium to compute on OS X ...Windows is there by default and for years companies and users alike were downgrading Vista boxes to XP. That speaks volumes as to how they value Microsoft's OS.
Picasa is miles above iPhoto IMO, and it runs on my Mac, Windows, and Linux (well, through Wine) just fine. Not sure if it comes with the Dell, but it's a free download.
That was a good one. Made my friday. If you need support on windows and linux then Picasa or some other too is your friend but if we're talking about strictly a Mac environment iPhoto stomps on Picasa in most areas save for speed and those who are finicky about managing their file hierarchy. I would not recommend Mac users utilize Picasa over iPhoto 09 unless they had specific needs (like storing/retrieving photos from a NAS or cross platform issues)
iPhoto is far easier to manage with Events, Google Earth is ironically much better supported, Geo tagging is a piece of cake and tagging is easier than ever. Picasa used to look good 4 years ago...times moved on. Google needs to do something.
MBP 17" $2799 -- Lenovo Y730 $1499
MBP 15" $2499 -- Asus G50Vt-A2 $1899
MB 13" $1299 -- Dell Studio 15 $1099, Lenovo Y530 $1029, Dell Studio XPS 13 $1099, Toshiba U400 $729
MB 13" $999 -- Toshiba A305 $629, Acer Aspire 5735 $499
The above comparisons are somewhat more fair than the one in the television ad (which is based on a lie about screen resolutions), even when you add the approximately $120 for Vista Ultimate instead of the crippled Home Premium I assume they all come with.
Its funny that mac has been attacking microsoft for years and when microsoft finally fights back this site goes crazy.
I don't think people here are going "crazy". And I, for one, have no problem with Microsoft 'attacking' Apple if they want to. I just think that spending tons of money on an ad campaign (particularly this example) that emphasises price is a little pointless.
Everyone knows that there is a much wider range of PCs out there.
Everyone already knows that there are cheap PCs out there.
PC to Mac switchers are probably not the bargain basement brigade.
This ad really is preaching to the converted.... not only that but it really is doing the OEMs a disservice. Think about it! In reality there are actually lots of 17" PC laptops that cost over $1000.00. Yet this ad encourages the viewer to buy the cheaper (less OEM profit) version while Microsoft walks away with their usual fee.
I don't care if Microsoft or their agency think these are negative... I think it's a mistake to show... her first choice is an Apple store .... and saying she's not cool enough just reinforces the Apple "cool".
That NYT.com banner ad says more than this commercial .... and a its a lot cheaper too!
It isn't well put. If someone is completely priced out of the experience, then they have no means of entering and continuing to desire the experience. I may think that the hotels in Vegas offering cheap facades of other famous places around the planet are radically inferior to the actual places. However if the only place I could afford to go was Vegas and not travel to say, Europe, I won't have the basis of comparison to know what is better.
Apple isn't pricing themselves comparable to the market but rather out of the market. Their current customers will justify the price because of the experience but they need new blood all the time as does any platform. The kid buying his first laptop for college isn't going to drop $2500 versus $800 on an unknown. They don't have the money to purchase twice if they have made a mistake. Apple needs something to hook them in at a reasonable price. They used to do it with proprietary hardware that might not have even benefitted from the economics of scale. How they do have those advantages and still just run up the price.
Apple caters to the premium end of the market, not the $400 Dell segment. You assume the entire market reflects YOU. It doesn't.
In terms of mobility, I don't know of anyone that would consider any 17in laptop portable. I have always thought of them as mobile desktops because of battery life concerns running hardware too heavy for it to be useable. That said, she choose a bulky (11.2"x15.6"x1.7") and heavy(7.8lbs) computer compared to the MB (8.94"X12.78"x0.95") and 4.5lbs and MBP's (10.51"x15.47"x0.98") and 6.6lbs. I think that anyone without good reason should avoid 17 laptops, but she insisted. I don't think her back will be happy after a few trips.
She has an AMD processor. AMD is a bit behind the time in terms of performance per watt. I wonder if see noticed that? Apple stacks top of the line processors sometimes being the premiere system featuring new processors. Releases of new systems can normally be planned around Intel's release schedule. Intel is ahead of AMD in terms of processors. If Apple wanted to compete in that market, they could use last years technology. 2 and 3 year old processors could shave off those dollars. Use old system cards with low bus speeds and tiny caches. Processor speed sounds impressive until your look at the things surrounding it. Her system has 2.1GHz, with 1MB of L2 cache with 4GB DDR2. The MB 2.0GHz, 3MB L2 cache, 2GB DDR3 and MBP 2.66GHz, 6MB L2 cache with 4GB of DDR3. Good enough for today verses prepared for tomorrow.
Hard drive are another matter. HP uses the cheapest large hard drives out there. Apple provides the best hard drives with sudden drop sensors with 8MB cache buffers on disk sets with faster throughput.
Media card reader are like nice to have but never necessary. If you need one on you at all times, then that is a plus, otherwise it is added tech that you won't use often. Video cards make the system sound way outdated. ATI doesn't even bother listing the HD3200 on their site it is so old. Apple uses MB 256MB GDDR3 Nvidia GP, and the MPB uses 2 different GPUs for battery verse performance concerns, and both are GDDR3 256MB verses the 512MB.
She wanted a 17 in screen, but seemed to ignore screen resolution. Her HP has 1280X800 verse the MB(1280x800) and MBP 1920x1200 (thats true HD capable and much more screen usage). I'll take this time to point out that the 15in MBP has better resolution than her 17in HP. Note, the Best Buy site is listing the external monitor size as the internal monitor size, a little deceptive if you ask me. What she can see on her 17in screen she could view all the same content on a 13in MB and more on larger screens.
HP has a modem. Anyone using a modem... well it is upsetting to say the least if someone must suffer like that. It also does not have a Gb ethernet jacks and only supports wireless B and G. I am convinced she enjoys living in life 3 years ago... Macs comes standard with Gb ethernet, access to A/B/G/N networks. The MBP comes with a firewire 800 and a PCI-expansion slot for additional versatility.
Battery life which is a major point of a laptop. The HP has 2.5 hours. The MB 5 hrs and MBP 8 hrs. The Mac has a multi-touch trackpad. It comes with OSX which is better protected against viruses and malware for average users that can slow or corrupt a system. In addition to the OS being way better and faster than Vista's resource hog, the added software of iLife is celebrated for its ease of use and power. There is no comparing iMovie, iPhoto, or Garageband to anything out there in the consumer range.
The woman should also know that her HP will probably die after her one year warranty is up or a year from then. She will wonder in 2 years why her computer is so much slower than the rest of the computers out there. When she goes to throw out her computer, she will be hurting the environment, because her computer contains so many harmful components. The Mac is design with carbon footprint in mind, from the packaging, battery disposal, recycling, having LED backlit screens. I mean look at the size of the box for her computer.
I will close with this little nugget of explanation. In January of 2007 I bought a 15in MBP. It has a 2.16GHz core 2 Duo Intel processor, 4MB L2 cache support for Wireless A/B/G/N, 3GB of DDR2 SDRAM, 1440x900 Native display, a PCI-X expansion slot, Firewire 400 and 800, and a backlit keyboard along with other features. I am willing to say that a computer that came out in late 2006 is better than what that woman bought in 2009. On Craigslist, one person is listing theirs for 1100 and the other person is listing theirs for 1200. Mac maintain their value better than other brands. What I am saying is that when the time come for her to get a new computer, it is likely that hers will either no longer work or it will be close to worthless.
I agree but I bet like me you agonize once in a while over the choices from Apple ... a new MacPro and a MacBook or perhaps a MacBook Pro and a second 24" LCD Monitor, it's sooo hard to choose at times... even if it's fantasy some days
Hehe . . . do I get an updated white Macbook to play with, or do I go for real portability and get an Air? Maybe a Mini to complement my current MBP? Do I go for a midrange MBP or loaded Macbook? THESE are the kinds of choices I love. All great quality, but very, very simple and straightforward. And all designed to run OS X flawlessly. The same kind of integration across the board, the same environment.
Yes, I spent $3500 on my 17" MBP, but I have confidence and a peace of mind that it will not fail and I will be able to keep it for at least 5 years and pass it on to my kids. The MBP replaced my ten year old B&W G3 tower, that still works perfectly fine.
I have found Macs to be reliable overall, but a bad disk can happen to anybody, no matter how good the drive supplier is. That's what Time Machine is for.
That said, integrators such as Apple can choose different reliability ratings (MTBF) for the drives they buy. Obviously the cheaper models have lower MTBF figures. I'm not sure what criteria Apple uses, but they use several brands of drives, including Hitachi.
I was never so happy to go home to my trusty MB an 20"iMac. Clean, Quiet...aahhhh...it was truly ZEN. My point? I paid a little more for each, but in the end...a much better, overall experience.
here is the deal;
Show a Rolls Royce. Show a BMW. Now show a Chevy!
"I shopped for a new car and I found a Nova for under 10, 000." So what if has plastic seats full of formaldehyde, the transmission will conk out after 35k, the owners manuel sucks, the thing chugs up hills and you have to shift/grind all three gears!. Then there is the frustration of getting questions when the dealer forwards your calls to India. "Where is the hood release? I can't find the hood release!" answer: "Da boot release is beneath the ancillary cabinet. Is there anyting else I con hellp you wit?"
I'd like to emphasize the word tit in titular...
I do have to agree though that for the first time is several years the Mac line up is looking seriously overpriced. There are lots of perfectly sound arguments for premium pricing in a recession but my loyalty is being a little tested. Getting a PC would be unthinkable, but delaying purchases isn't.
The recession is irrelevant. Either you can afford a Mac or you can't. It's that simple. People who have secure jobs shouldn't care if we are in a recession or not with respect to purchasing things. And while unemployment is high and some jobs are at risk, there are still a lot of people who can afford a Mac.
The only effect this will have on Apple is lame fodder for PC fanboys on Internet forums.
but they need new blood all the time as does any platform.
It's pretty well know that half of all mac sales are first-time buyers.
So when I see some obsessing about the "little" stuff like...card readers it strikes me as odd
Lots of people complain about that, but I just plug my digital camera in via USB and iPhoto imports all the pics no problem. Why would I need some mega card reader? How many different devices does the average consumer have? Esp considering most use either SD or micro SD.