Microsoft pays for inaccurate "Apple Tax" study, issues 3rd TV ad

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  • Reply 121 of 343
    adjeiadjei Posts: 738member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by meeksdigital View Post


    The "Windows - Life without walls" thing still has me really confused - how the f*ck do you have windows if you don't have walls? Idiots...



  • Reply 122 of 343
    zindakozindako Posts: 468member
    What I find strange is, microsoft owns 99.99% of the business market, virtually every business that has computers are running it on windows. Not to mention they still have over 90% of the operating system market on the consumer side, so why are they displaying such fear and grit towards Apple?



    I will never truly understand Microsoft, they make way more money than Apple, have more of a foothold in business clients/servers, yet they feel it necessary to attack Apple products in such a way, this just looks like all kinds of greed. If they don't have 100% of the market/products they are not satisfied.
  • Reply 123 of 343
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,743member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zindako View Post


    What I find strange is, microsoft owns 99.99% of the business market, virtually every business that has computers are running it on windows. Not to mention they still have over 90% of the operating system market on the consumer side, so why are they displaying such fear and grit towards Apple?



    I will never truly understand Microsoft, they make way more money than Apple, have more of a foothold in business clients/servers, yet they feel it necessary to attack Apple products in such a way, this just looks like all kinds of greed. If they don't have 100% of the market/products they are not satisfied.



    Apple is grabbing huge chunks of the Premium end of the market.



    MS is being relegated to a bargain-basement WalMart brand. When the highest-income bracket consumers don't want your product, what does that say about your image? What does that say about your product?
  • Reply 124 of 343
    adjeiadjei Posts: 738member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nizy View Post


    You hit the nail on the head there mate! Its no coincidence that rising Mac sales follow on from the enormous success of the iPod and more recently the iPhone. Some of my friends are iPod owners that have been converted to Macs solely because of their experience with the iPod!



    As for the ads/report, they are completely ridiculous and biased toward MS and their partners. The addition of mac items that don't appear on the PC side is just stupid. So a Mac user has to buy office (and upgrade it) yet a PC user doesn't? Maybe he expects the PC user to illegally download it?



    MS seems to be advertising themselves as the cheap alternative. The problem is that Apple offers a far superior product, which is why there's the so called "Apple Tax". Its like MS is a Hyundai and Apple is a Mercedes - the Hyundai is most likely a cheaper car, does most of what you want it to, but if you want the better quality (better engineering, more features, style, comfort etc) you go for the Mercedes! And of course that Mercedes costs a premium too just like Apple.



    Well that's the only thing they got going for them, being cheap, but Office is not cheap.
  • Reply 125 of 343
    adjeiadjei Posts: 738member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by UltimateKylie View Post


    Life without walls is Life without restrictions or Life without boundaries. But then your just being an idiot.



    The funny thing, as idiotic as the adverts are they have won on two points. Number one, everyone including every apple blog/forum is talking about them. I mean, its great viral marketing to keep discussing them. Now next time some mac users go shopping they may have point number two nagging at them.



    Number two is the value of PCs. This Sony Vaio FW is a great laptop with ATI 3650 (comparable to the Nvidia 9600) is scable upto 2.9 Ghz and 8GB of Ram. Comes with an optional large 8 hours battery (5.5 hour default). Comes with 1920x1080 screen and Blu-ray. Hell a Blu-ray drive for a Mac will set you back like $400... the base on www.sonystyle.com which comes with free Blu-ray is only $839. Even if I go all the way upto 2.9 Ghz (the base is 2.0 Ghz) I am still only $1699. So the value is extremely clear if you are in the market for a 16" or 17" laptop. Is Mac OS X worth over $1000? Hell you could get a Mac Mini and still come out better...



    So we as Apple users really should just ignore it... attacking it makes us look elitist and just further gives more free publicity.



    Apple needs to decide if they want to continue to be a premium brand and how to market it. Or honestly I think they could come down in price.



    LOL dude you know Apple blogs talk about things related to Apple, if Apple hadn't been mentioned, do you think people here would give half a damn.
  • Reply 126 of 343
    adjeiadjei Posts: 738member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post


    Yes, yes, yes... Because Apple as a company and Macs sales are so doing freaken horrible. They're doomed unless they come down in price. How many times have we heard this? How many more are we going to have to suffer through?



    They do not need to come down in price. People just need to resist buying that $700 piece of crap and save more. I'm sorry, but anyone who values their money and investments will look at more than just specs on a sheet. There's customer satisfaction, repair statistics, and customer support. Apple is one of the few companies that realizes that you're a customer for the life of the product, not just until you hand over the cash and walk out the door. The Apple Stores reflect that and that's nothing Microsoft will ever be able to offer Windows users, because they don't deal with end-users, they do business with OEMs.



    Look Apple has to build and support Mac OSX, plus they also build their own hardware and this comes at a price. The likes of Dell, Sony, HP, Lenovo don't have to worry about building an advanced operating system. This is the price you have to pay, some of us are more than willing to in order not to tackle Windows.
  • Reply 127 of 343
    adjeiadjei Posts: 738member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wheelhot View Post


    Hmm...downgrading requires you to pay more..I wonder which company does that?



  • Reply 128 of 343
    adjeiadjei Posts: 738member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by UltimateKylie View Post


    LOL...Apple doesn't even offer downgrading if for some reason someone prefered Tiger over Leopard.. oddly enough I thought Tiger was more stable but thats another story.



    And to those of you who claim $2800 is not a high price even for Apple when Sony (which is a premium brand) can offer you more at roughly the same size display for about $1600 then you have reality issues. I mean with Apple you go from somewhat reasonable to ultra expensive so fast you don't have to time to blink. The 2.0 MacBook is somewhat reasonable but god forbid you want more than 1280x800 pixels. I mean i'm not a pro, but I can see the use even in browsing, emailing, and IM for more the 1280x800 pixels.



    Another odd thing I noted... go look at Sony for example. Its the opposite of Macs in the fact the generally the smaller you get the more expensive the laptop is. Where as with the Macbooks its the reverse (If you don't consider the Air).



    My BF for example won't get a 13", he prefers larger screen and is laptop is mostly used as a desktop but sometimes taken out on the road. He is also a movie buff. Not that he creates them, but loves to watch them especially oldies and Woody Allen films. He would love a 17", he loves style as well but there is no way he could justify $2000+ when all he would ever do is email and watch movies. I tried to give him my 13" MacBook instead of selling it and he refused... saying the screen was too small. Me on the other hand, I love 13" but wouldn't mind more pixels. The Sony Z series offers 1600x900 in 13.1" notebook... who knows I'm sure in the future pixels will get more dense on the MacBooks as well.



    And for those of you who claim that OS X is so much better... Leopard has had a ton of issues and still does in regard to networking. I was even told to reinstall Leopard from Apple Support for a networking issue. I thought such advice was only something Dell and HP gave... What I will gave Apple is they have good support that speaks English and they are likely to go above and beyond. As I said in an other post... HP, Dell, Toshiba love to give you the run around.



    I do see value in iLife, but at the high end its really hard to justify what is becoming $1000 of difference especially if all you want is a 15" screen. I don't see why Apple couldn't do a consumer 15" notebok. Its really one size fits all in Apple's consumer notebook strategy and where I do 100% agree with Microsoft in their "Life with out walls" campaign. People do want a little more flexibility. And all any fanboi does is throw a huge hissy fit when some suggests Apple could be more flexible. Its like soviet russia. I must follow 100% and I obviously disagree with communism if I suggest one point to improve it.



    I do think these ads are stupid and sorta lame. But on the other hand is big win with these threads full of spin, lies, and huge hissy fits. It just further proves that Apple is like BMW and most don't want to be associated with people that look down. Alot of people might dream about a BMW, but even rich people buy a Ford or a Hyundai to not be seen as snotty...

    Some of you say it doesn't matter... but it matters enough for you to appearently get upset about it and ridicule them.



    I mean you would think Microsoft raped your children the deep hatred you have for them. Its like your goal is to topple their marketshare but then you argue in a circle that it isn't what Apple wants and the Apple is premium. Which one is it? Is Apple Premium and Microsoft Windows always the somewhat inferior but for the masses or is Apple gonna change its strategy and actually overtake Windows?



    I just know I hate fanbois and I know Steve Jobs hates them too...



    Look Sony Vaio's are just expensive as Macs if not even more, so I don't get your point. You need to go to your closest Sony Style and check them out.
  • Reply 129 of 343
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Adjei View Post


    Look Sony Vaio's are just expensive as Macs if not even more, so I don't get your point. You need to go to your closest Sony Style and check them out.



    Just proves you are an idiot. Go to www.sonystyle.com and look at the model referenced in the advert and by me. You will see is quite cheaper than Apple.



    So all your points and laughs are just utter failure.
  • Reply 130 of 343
    adjeiadjei Posts: 738member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by UltimateKylie View Post


    Just proves you are an idiot. Go to www.sonystyle.com and look at the model referenced in the advert and by me. You will see is quite cheaper than Apple.



    So all your points and laughs are just utter failure.



    You are a useless goat. I wasn't talking about the specific models, I was talking about all Vaio models compared to Macs frigging idiot.
  • Reply 131 of 343
    rot'napplerot'napple Posts: 1,839member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


    3D apps?



    You mean GAMES. GAMES aren't "3D apps."



    Sorry, most Mac users could care less about Crysis. Some of us have outgrown them.



    Macs were BORN to run Aperture, Final Cut Pro, and all the Pro grade "3D Apps" out there. Macs run all the graphics-intensive apps we need. And they are the industry standard. Macs are all about 3D apps.



    I]Sorry, most Mac users could care less about Crysis. Some of us have outgrown them.[/I]





    Don't tell Apple iPhone users that! The all time top 20 paid apps and the all time top 20 free apps, 40 all time top apps in all are categorized "Games"!



    Maybe Apple should consider an economical gaming Mac computer based on the "iPhone technology" since their are fewer software games being written for OS X? I guess, I dunno.



    But wait, but wait, OS X runs windows people can buy "games" and run them on windows. Sure, but I thought we were talking about the Mac experience. Mac needs OS X to run Windows in order to play the games that Mac users can care less about and yet buy an Apple product namely the iPhone that makes a ton of apps in broad categories like business, utility, games, etc. and the Apple iPhone games app take 20 of the 40 slots in Top Apps downloaded?!



    Games may not be as "dirty" a word for Apple Macs as one might think, but I feel a flaming coming on... : (
  • Reply 132 of 343
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bruce Atkinson View Post


    As a long long time Windows user and Mac owner I think it's about time Microsoft started advertising their strengths. I think this article sounds like someone with sour grapes. Like the Apple ads are any more truthful. I have always enjoyed them. I think they are funny, but truthful they are not. The Microsoft ads are very accurate. You can buy an excellent Windows laptop, for less then the price of a Mac mini, that will last a long time. My family currently has 3 HP laptops that are 5 years old and two Dell laptops that are 2 years old. Total investment for all 5 laptops $3000.00. My daughter also has a Mac Book provided by the school she teaches at; $2000.00 for one laptop (it's no better then my two year old Dell).



    I personally have never felt comfortable in an Apple store. Most people I meet there seem to feel they are better then anyone that owns a Windows machine.



    I have virtually no problems with Windows or the Mac but I spend a lot of time helping others on both. Mac owners can mess up their machines just as well as a Windows user.



    I personally get a kick out of buying something at the Apple store and as the sales clerk is knocking something about Windows I ask them how they like using Windows Mobile on their handheld point of sale device. Seems like the iPhone or iPod touch should be capable enough, but they must not be.



    Everyone keeps mentioning the virus costs. There are several options on Windows that are free, including not running any (I don't run any on my home machines) I do scan my server drives for virus's (I've yet to find one except in e-mail attachments). You can get a virus/trojan on a Mac.



    Open Office works quite well on Windows and Macs and it's free. You can use Neo Office on the Mac which is Open Office compiled as a native Mac app.



    First post? Sure, you don't work for Redmond... Don't feel comfortable in an Apple Store? You obviously have an inferiority complex, because I know I wouldn't give a damn if I saw you there. Then again, I would be uncomfortable in an Apple Store if I worked for Microsoft, too.



    A two year old Dell is better than a $2,000 MacBook? First of all, you don't give any information about either, other than a vague description of the age of the Dell and the price of the MacBook. That doesn't tell anyone anything. I highly doubt that any two year old Dell notebook is better than a $2,000 MacBook of any age.



    No, Mac owners do not "mess up" their machines anywhere near as bad, and often, as PC users. I've spent a LOT more time fixing the PCs in my family than the Macs, and most of my family owns Macs these days.



    You know just as damn well as I do that there's probably back-end proprietary credit card merchant software that requires Windows. It has nothing to do with whether an iPhone of iPod Touch is better than Windows Mobile, because all of us here in the real world know damn well that Windows mobile is garbage. I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot stylus. I have a Blackberry and an iPhone. I can hardly stand to use the Blackberry, but I'm not allowed to have the iPhone on an employee plan. Windows Mobile and Blackberry devices are so damn slow and clunky.



    Free antivirus doesn't work as well as paid antivirus, the same way a free healthcare clinic isn't as thorough as a real hospital. If you have a real problem, you're going to need the hospital anyways. It's just plain idiotic to run Windows without antivirus, unless you're completely disconnected from any networks and have no optical/magnetic media. No, Macs don't just "get" viruses and trojans. In order to successfully infect a Mac the same way that Windows machines are constantly infected, it would take real concrete social engineering and/or physical access to the machine. I've used Macs for years now, still no malware. Keep talking. Reality speaks for itself.



    OpenOffice produces poor quality documents. Then again, so does Office. iWork, however, creates very elegant documents and it's very easy to use. Office is okay, but I prefer iWork. OpenOffice is garbage. Harder to use and messy looking documents. Most open source software is too damn generic. For example, The GIMP.
  • Reply 133 of 343
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Adjei View Post


    You are a useless goat. I wasn't talking about the specific models, I was talking about all Vaio models compared to Macs frigging idiot.



    You are still an idiot...

    Sony Z series (13" 1600x900 display, Mobile Broadband) starting at $1699.99

    Sony SR series (13" 1280x800) starting at $1049.99

    Sony CS series 14" starting at $789.99

    Sony NS series 15" starting at $779.99

    Sony FW Series (16" with free Blu-ray) starting at $839.99

    Sony AW Series 18" starting at $1424.99



    Even configured to match Apple specs the notebooks are cheaper than Apple. I did not mention the 8 or 11" as Apple does not compete at these sizes. Sony quality is generally high end. I did own one a few years ago and was generally pleased. The only replacement was a battery and it was US English support.



    Might I add that Sony invented the so called 'chiklet' keyboard that supposedly Apple has 'popularized' and is featured on all Macs...
  • Reply 134 of 343
    adjeiadjei Posts: 738member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by UltimateKylie View Post


    You are still an idiot...

    Sony Z series (13" 1600x900 display, Mobile Broadband) starting at $1699.99

    Sony SR series (13" 1280x800) starting at $1049.99

    Sony CS series 14" starting at $789.99

    Sony NS series 15" starting at $779.99

    Sony FW Series (16" with free Blu-ray) starting at $839.99

    Sony AW Series 18" starting at $1424.99



    Even configured to match Apple specs the notebooks are cheaper than Apple. I did not mention the 8 or 11" as Apple does not compete at these sizes. Sony quality is generally high end. I did own one a few years ago and was generally pleased. The only replacement was a battery and it was US English support.



    Might I add that Sony invented the so called 'chiklet' keyboard that supposedly Apple has 'popularized' and is featured on all Macs...



    What a freaking dunce, so these Vaio's here are cheaper than Macs:



    http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...52921644577896



    http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...tegoryId=16154



    http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...tegoryId=16154



    What a clueless idiot..
  • Reply 135 of 343
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by UltimateKylie View Post


    Life without walls is Life without restrictions or Life without boundaries. But then your [sic] just being an idiot.



    The funny thing, as idiotic as the adverts are they have won on two points. Number one, everyone including every apple blog/forum is talking about them. I mean, its great viral marketing to keep discussing them. Now next time some mac users go shopping they may have point number two nagging at them.



    Number two is the value of PCs. This Sony Vaio FW is a great laptop with ATI 3650 (comparable to the Nvidia 9600) is scable upto 2.9 Ghz and 8GB of Ram. Comes with an optional large 8 hours battery (5.5 hour default). Comes with 1920x1080 screen and Blu-ray. Hell a Blu-ray drive for a Mac will set you back like $400... the base on www.sonystyle.com which comes with free Blu-ray is only $839. Even if I go all the way upto 2.9 Ghz (the base is 2.0 Ghz) I am still only $1699. So the value is extremely clear if you are in the market for a 16" or 17" laptop. Is Mac OS X worth over $1000? Hell you could get a Mac Mini and still come out better...



    So we as Apple users really should just ignore it... attacking it makes us look elitist and just further gives more free publicity.



    Apple needs to decide if they want to continue to be a premium brand and how to market it. Or honestly I think they could come down in price.



    Perhaps you should stop calling others 'idiots' and such, and look in the mirror.



    If you think an average person doesn't understand - heck, my ten year-old can - that 'life without walls' refers to life without boundaries, that is plain silly. People are pointing out the irony, indeed, the stupidity (in a punning way) of a product called 'Windows' talking about having no walls...... it is actually quite funny when you think about it.



    This whole campaign is based on the premise that the recession will last a long time. When things start to turn the premise becomes weaker.



    It has all the finesse and logic of Wal-mart taking on, say, Nordstrom. It may work temporarily, in a recessionary environment, but it also fixes in people's mind the notion that they see themselves as second-class. Quite apart from that, they are muddying their own product identity, which is primarily about software, not the boxes in which that primary product resides.
  • Reply 136 of 343
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by UltimateKylie View Post


    Might I add that Sony invented the so called 'chiklet' keyboard that supposedly Apple has 'popularized' and is featured on all Macs...



    So what? What's your point?
  • Reply 137 of 343
    To me, time is money, and I won't waste either on Windows ever again.[/QUOTE]



    Agreed. Before I switched I spent more time troubleshooting than getting any work done. Not the case with OS X.
  • Reply 138 of 343
    jpellinojpellino Posts: 612member
    ...has seen the errors of its ways and - according to the desktop chart provided by Mr. Kay - is apparently loading full-blown Office (3 seat license) on every new Windows machine. Good to know. Brilliant plan.
  • Reply 139 of 343
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Adjei View Post


    What a freaking dunce, so these Vaio's here are cheaper than Macs:



    http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...52921644577896



    http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...tegoryId=16154



    http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...tegoryId=16154



    What a clueless idiot..



    Really... all you could do is find 3 computers out of all those models you think are more expensive? Thats it...



    Well... the Z series (as I mentioned before). Is 1600x900 pixels at 13.1 in screen. Apple doesn't offer those extra pixels on a 13" notebook do they? In addition it also comes standard with Mobile Broadband... something Apple also doesn't offer on any computer.



    The TT Series... is 11 in. Apple does not compete against that computer.



    About the LV series desktop, I will say those are expensive. They are truely the only computing product that Sony sells that does appear to be more expensive then Apple. I will note comparibly they really are about the same price and same cpu speed. The high end on both sides are around 3.0ghz with 1TB hard drive. However the Sony does come with a TV Tuner and Blu-ray and both really are marketed as an All in one that you hang on the wall as possibly a TV replacement. As such they are different the other All in ones in the fact it doesn't really have a chin and is thinner then the iMac.



    For the majority of Sony Vaio purchases, it will be cheaper than Apple or you are getting features that Apple does not offer such as 11" or a 1600x900 13" display.



    So your assertion that Sony Vaio is more expensive and that the FW in this advert was a 'one off' is completely false.
  • Reply 140 of 343
    bloggerblogbloggerblog Posts: 1,839member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Adjei View Post


    You are a useless goat. I wasn't talking about the specific models, I was talking about all Vaio models compared to Macs frigging idiot.



    don't feed the trolls.
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