Well, I'd like to be able to upgrade my 3000 dollar Mac Pro to play games. That's something I'd like my Mac to do...
That will cost you $200.
Either use bootcamp and run vista. SP1 fixes a lot of issues. ($189 OEM Ultimate)
Or buy an Xbox.
With your rig you will be better off with BootCamp... Should be sick... Even though I wouldn't be suprised if you aren't handicapped by the graphics card. For some reason Apple cards are more expensive and very limited.
I don't run any antivirus on my home PC. I've yet to receive a virus.
That used to be me, about 6 years ago. I'm smart, I know not to click on spam or visit questionable websites, and no one else used my computer. Never had a virus in 10 years! My virus protection plan was working great!
Finally one day, my PC started acting a little flakey. After a few days of troubleshooting, I began to think it might be a virus. I went out and spent the $50. Sure enough, it found a virus that was causing the problems, and cleared it right up.
Oh, and it also found six others that were completely transparent to me as a user, but still rather unpleasant!
BTW, many ISPs offer free antivirus software these days; Comcast gives you McAfee. Fewer infected customers means lower network management costs. But it's still another maintenance task on my Wondows box that my Mac is blissfully free of.
The fact that you are in a distinct minority, and have a rather unusual view of the situation is proven by the fact that you see "astounding arrogance" in the article when literally no one else does.
I've been in tech support for many years and people generally don't go out and find free anti-virus products on the web, Google or no. They buy one on the recommendation of friends or they buy one on the recommendation of the person fixing their computer at the tech stop. People are generally terrified of viruses and not confident enough about tech to pick out an anti-virus themselves, as (to them) it's a hugely important decision.
PCs don't even *work* without anti-virus (at least not connected to the Internet for more than a few minutes), so it's perfectly valid to include the average cost of anti-virus when figuring out the cost of the whole package.
Even if you were right about people going out and finding free anti-virus (you're not), the cost should be calculated based on what the average windows user spends on anti-virus per year. If some people like yourself spend zero dollars, well that's great. Others will spend hundreds on anti-virus though and the *average* cost of what is spent is a valid "add-on cost to a windows computer when doing these kinds of calculations.
Finally, your implied assertion that Mac users are "dumb" is really off-base considering that more Mac users are professionals, more Mac users have higher education etc. Also, Microsoft is purposely targeting dumb "average" PC users with this campaign and purposely *not* targeting knowledgeable professionals.
The ads more or less say:
"You're not very rich, you're not very cool, and you're not that technologically competent, so ... a PC is just right for you! They're cheap!"
I think that free AV solutions have much higher profile today than they did have a year or two ago, and much more people are exposed to them. I remember time - not so long ago - when absolute majority of computers I have encountered had Norton. I would lucky-guess 80% at least, likely more. But not today, or, at least, not in this environment.
Ads are not addressing professionals because - pros know exactly what they want. And need. Others, well, they can be persuaded. And they are majority.
This guy Hesseldahl sounds like a true fanboy. Widows people don't make PC's , electronics companies do.
Notice again how it's always HP and the other bottom of the barell Dell and Gateway- never Sony or Lenovo.
And you sound ridiculous.
Microsoft's ads promote PCs, not Windows itself (that would be a bad move). In the ads, the "customers" chose HP and Dell. The "customers" go for the cheap stuff - if they chose Sony, there wouldn't be much of a price difference with Apple.
I keep hearing this argument, but so far I haven't seen a proof that components inside good looking Mac cases are any better than average PC parts. Problems Macs had with previous and current nVidia chips, cracking plastics cases (one that definitely looks better but does not behave better than non-descript HP plastics - on the contrary) etc. is really not adding to that argument.
As a hardware guy, I would really like to see some details about Mac guts and make my own conclusions. If anyone can provide such details, links... I'd be grateful.
these ads aren't targeted at the geeks, they are targeted at the home user with a limited budget and not a lot of desire to go hunting.
so look at it that way
but as was pointed out, the typical joe public user isn't going to go digging around for one of these titles. they will grab something off the shelf when they buy the computer. either because they figure something in a box is safer or cause the salesperson wants the additional $50-100 on the sale
again, joe ain't gonna do that. the office uses Office so he'll shell out at least $150 for that, maybe double. the kids wanna make music on the computer so he'll grab some $25 program for that. and so on.
as for the folks that said "they should do an I'm a Mac ad" it's not likely to happen. Justin is very likely off contract and no way would he settle for the cheap deal they got last time. better (in the eyes of the bean counters) to go a new route.
You are absolutely right that average user will not know about these freewares. In fact I used to work for Geek Squad they make money by selling two things mainly, Antivirus/spyware software and Bestbuy service plan...
I have never used Apple but I am quite sure it is almost worth the money since it has better design and OS based on UNIX. On the other hand PC user can have Linux ... but again you have to be little tech savvy for that and that is not average Joe..
My next purchase will be Apple notebook for sure.. just spent 2 hours fixing Windows reboot problem yesterday which was caused by Ram..
However I do feel Apple need to bring cost little down... common example is cost of DDR3 RAM for MB Pro.. where 4GB is included in price of $1999 but if you switch it to 8 GB it add another $1000 bucks.. which indicates cost of 8 GB will be around 1500... While on crucial.com DDR3 memory of similar kind is US $979.99 .. which is a difference of almost $500 bucks..
A Mac doesn't do a lot of things PCs do. Garmin didn't have much support for Mac's prior to last year. God knows there are tons of programs out there that are not ported to the Mac that can only run on a PC.
I love my Macs, but MS has a lot more developpers and hardware support than Mac's will ever have.
I tell my PC friends the same thing about cheap components and price of software and resolution, but they are happy with their cheap shit.
It's like trying to get someone to go into a wine shop and select a $50 bottle of wine, when they are just as happy with a $10 bottle from the grocery store. It's just not worth the effort.
Because some people just want to browse the web, check email, view pictures, and write documents. As much as I like macs, cheap pc's do have their place. BTW they dont even need windows to do those things. Ubuntu would work great for most people.
I use my 3 year old WhiteBook for business just fine. I run MS Office 08 for Mac and have not had a single issue.
2Gig of RAM
320 Gig WD 7200 RPM Hard Drive
And it smokes!
AND my Macbook boots up 100x faster than their BRAND NEW Dell Laptops, so I'm productive sooner than they are. AND I don't worry about viruses.
I actually returned the company PC because it was frustratingly slow.
That's an intelligent response. Yeah if you go as far as spreadsheets you're ok. But you still needed to shell out $$$ for M$... But for enterprise applications or enterprise support you aren't going to find it with a mac.
The white macbook is the only thing that I recommend on the computer side. It is pretty robust. I have had mine for a while and have bought one for my wife and recommend them to everyone. Just put another monitor next to it and you are set.
Except the plastic on mine is cracking. They have QC issues. I have had several issues... Too long to get into.
Man, I just converted to being a Mac user 4 months ago, but if I knew I'd be a part of moron's like the author of Business Week, I'd rather not pull out my Macbook Pro at all in public.
I get he's comparing it to the HPs, but has he ever used a Thinkpad?
I love Mac, and what it offers to me, and it's flexibility, but this pissing contest and uninformed articles are really getting annoying now, from both the sides.
You can only use 3 of the 4 GBs of ram in the HP laptop featured in the commercial, did you realize that? Why would HP include ram that windows cant even use? Why does microsoft want you to buy it?
I think once you answer the above question honestly, you'll realize how snarky you ended up.
IMO, of course. Heh.
p.s. The Windows security and PC repair industries are a multi-billion dollar a year segments. 'buy a cheap pc, steal software from dad' argument = not so good.
Excuse me? Wow, listen to you... I'm sorry that I actually have a parent who offers me some assistance through the software he buys. Maybe that's a foreign concept to you. Also, your assumption that my PC is "cheap" just underscores how snobby some Mac users are. The Mac community does no justice by you. I paid $1500 in November and BUILT a phenomenal PC from scratch, thank you, and it works without problems. And with Windows XP, OMG!
And to answer your question, I guess I'll be snarky. You do realize that I wasn't talking about memory in the first place, so I'm not entirely sure why you brought something like that up towards me. In fact, I have no clue. But Apple rips you off when purchasing memory anyway, so the issue of HP "stiffing" you by not making available 1GB of memory seems trivial, although I do not know of the specifics concerning this HP issue.
Man, I just converted to being a Mac user 4 months ago, but if I knew I'd be a part of moron's like the author of Business Week, I'd rather not pull out my Macbook Pro at all in public.
I get he's comparing it to the HPs, but has he ever used a Thinkpad?
I love Mac, and what it offers to me, and it's flexibility, but this pissing contest and uninformed articles are really getting annoying now, from both the sides.
I agree comparison was ridiculous here, MB Pro VS HP $699 laptop.. Comparison should have been between White Mac book vs HP's $699 PC..
I am an Apple a day kind of guy. very healthy. have been so since 1995. I edit films on a mac, use FCPStudio for editing, Lightroom for my photography, ms Word for my writing. My gear is Apple, Leica, Sony. Period.
This last week I spent with my girlfriend in another island, recently she bought an iBook. Has always worked on a PC with Windows. Both her son, an IT Geek and Me, garden variety 65 year old Geek, we both recommended a mac. Her new education demands she use windows 07. Ouch! So, a first for me, i am no techie, don't do timecode or such, i am more an intuitive kind of geek. So, there I was setting up a partition via bootcamp, as suggested by her son. printed out the instructions, 25 pages from a fallen tree, followed them to the letter. Installed windows 07 and word. Voila! perfection.
However
As i was installing and following the bouncing ms ball i could not help but think as to how ugly the whole interface of MS anything is. Sure I use MS for Mac. different breed than for a PC. It is horrible. the type face, the details yuck, yetch, blurp, sikko.
Yep, you get the idea, vomit!
So all these Apple vs PC arguments, commercials from MS, it's all horse doo doo.
I buy a mac, I turn it on, straight out of the box, it works.
Simple, Elegant and Well Worth The Price. Amen.
my only mistake was to not buy apple shares in 200&1. Bugger!
And do you still think Macs are better built than average PCs? Or just better looking?
Honest question; I still tend to believe - hardware wise - that Macs are all about perceived quality rather than real quality. There are some great parts for sure - LED displays, for example... but put all together...
Comments
Well, I'd like to be able to upgrade my 3000 dollar Mac Pro to play games. That's something I'd like my Mac to do...
That will cost you $200.
Either use bootcamp and run vista. SP1 fixes a lot of issues. ($189 OEM Ultimate)
Or buy an Xbox.
With your rig you will be better off with BootCamp... Should be sick... Even though I wouldn't be suprised if you aren't handicapped by the graphics card. For some reason Apple cards are more expensive and very limited.
I don't run any antivirus on my home PC. I've yet to receive a virus.
That used to be me, about 6 years ago. I'm smart, I know not to click on spam or visit questionable websites, and no one else used my computer. Never had a virus in 10 years! My virus protection plan was working great!
Finally one day, my PC started acting a little flakey. After a few days of troubleshooting, I began to think it might be a virus. I went out and spent the $50. Sure enough, it found a virus that was causing the problems, and cleared it right up.
Oh, and it also found six others that were completely transparent to me as a user, but still rather unpleasant!
BTW, many ISPs offer free antivirus software these days; Comcast gives you McAfee. Fewer infected customers means lower network management costs. But it's still another maintenance task on my Wondows box that my Mac is blissfully free of.
Your just wrong about this.
The fact that you are in a distinct minority, and have a rather unusual view of the situation is proven by the fact that you see "astounding arrogance" in the article when literally no one else does.
I've been in tech support for many years and people generally don't go out and find free anti-virus products on the web, Google or no. They buy one on the recommendation of friends or they buy one on the recommendation of the person fixing their computer at the tech stop. People are generally terrified of viruses and not confident enough about tech to pick out an anti-virus themselves, as (to them) it's a hugely important decision.
PCs don't even *work* without anti-virus (at least not connected to the Internet for more than a few minutes), so it's perfectly valid to include the average cost of anti-virus when figuring out the cost of the whole package.
Even if you were right about people going out and finding free anti-virus (you're not), the cost should be calculated based on what the average windows user spends on anti-virus per year. If some people like yourself spend zero dollars, well that's great. Others will spend hundreds on anti-virus though and the *average* cost of what is spent is a valid "add-on cost to a windows computer when doing these kinds of calculations.
Finally, your implied assertion that Mac users are "dumb" is really off-base considering that more Mac users are professionals, more Mac users have higher education etc. Also, Microsoft is purposely targeting dumb "average" PC users with this campaign and purposely *not* targeting knowledgeable professionals.
The ads more or less say:
"You're not very rich, you're not very cool, and you're not that technologically competent, so ... a PC is just right for you! They're cheap!"
I think that free AV solutions have much higher profile today than they did have a year or two ago, and much more people are exposed to them. I remember time - not so long ago - when absolute majority of computers I have encountered had Norton. I would lucky-guess 80% at least, likely more. But not today, or, at least, not in this environment.
Ads are not addressing professionals because - pros know exactly what they want. And need. Others, well, they can be persuaded. And they are majority.
It's really actually pathetic- to think an Apple spokesman actually needs to respond and say these things. SJ's leadership is sorely missed.
It's as if Mercedes or BMW responding to a Toyota add or something else as absurd.
Then why Apple was attacking PC before? This is __ and this is a __..
This guy Hesseldahl sounds like a true fanboy. Widows people don't make PC's , electronics companies do.
Notice again how it's always HP and the other bottom of the barell Dell and Gateway- never Sony or Lenovo.
And you sound ridiculous.
Microsoft's ads promote PCs, not Windows itself (that would be a bad move). In the ads, the "customers" chose HP and Dell. The "customers" go for the cheap stuff - if they chose Sony, there wouldn't be much of a price difference with Apple.
And it's "barrel."
It's not just the second-rate "windows" hardware,
I keep hearing this argument, but so far I haven't seen a proof that components inside good looking Mac cases are any better than average PC parts. Problems Macs had with previous and current nVidia chips, cracking plastics cases (one that definitely looks better but does not behave better than non-descript HP plastics - on the contrary) etc. is really not adding to that argument.
As a hardware guy, I would really like to see some details about Mac guts and make my own conclusions. If anyone can provide such details, links... I'd be grateful.
They do need to own up that it sucks for business.
I use my 3 year old WhiteBook for business just fine. I run MS Office 08 for Mac and have not had a single issue.
2Gig of RAM
320 Gig WD 7200 RPM Hard Drive
And it smokes!
AND my Macbook boots up 100x faster than their BRAND NEW Dell Laptops, so I'm productive sooner than they are. AND I don't worry about viruses.
I actually returned the company PC because it was frustratingly slow.
these ads aren't targeted at the geeks, they are targeted at the home user with a limited budget and not a lot of desire to go hunting.
so look at it that way
but as was pointed out, the typical joe public user isn't going to go digging around for one of these titles. they will grab something off the shelf when they buy the computer. either because they figure something in a box is safer or cause the salesperson wants the additional $50-100 on the sale
again, joe ain't gonna do that. the office uses Office so he'll shell out at least $150 for that, maybe double. the kids wanna make music on the computer so he'll grab some $25 program for that. and so on.
as for the folks that said "they should do an I'm a Mac ad" it's not likely to happen. Justin is very likely off contract and no way would he settle for the cheap deal they got last time. better (in the eyes of the bean counters) to go a new route.
You are absolutely right that average user will not know about these freewares. In fact I used to work for Geek Squad they make money by selling two things mainly, Antivirus/spyware software and Bestbuy service plan...
I have never used Apple but I am quite sure it is almost worth the money since it has better design and OS based on UNIX. On the other hand PC user can have Linux ... but again you have to be little tech savvy for that and that is not average Joe..
My next purchase will be Apple notebook for sure.. just spent 2 hours fixing Windows reboot problem yesterday which was caused by Ram..
However I do feel Apple need to bring cost little down... common example is cost of DDR3 RAM for MB Pro.. where 4GB is included in price of $1999 but if you switch it to 8 GB it add another $1000 bucks.. which indicates cost of 8 GB will be around 1500... While on crucial.com DDR3 memory of similar kind is US $979.99 .. which is a difference of almost $500 bucks..
Overcharge me Apple but not that much please..
If this weren't from someone with nearly 2500 posts over 18 months, I'd swear it was a troll.
It is - just a really busy one.
I love my Macs, but MS has a lot more developpers and hardware support than Mac's will ever have.
I tell my PC friends the same thing about cheap components and price of software and resolution, but they are happy with their cheap shit.
It's like trying to get someone to go into a wine shop and select a $50 bottle of wine, when they are just as happy with a $10 bottle from the grocery store. It's just not worth the effort.
Because some people just want to browse the web, check email, view pictures, and write documents. As much as I like macs, cheap pc's do have their place. BTW they dont even need windows to do those things. Ubuntu would work great for most people.
I use my 3 year old WhiteBook for business just fine. I run MS Office 08 for Mac and have not had a single issue.
2Gig of RAM
320 Gig WD 7200 RPM Hard Drive
And it smokes!
AND my Macbook boots up 100x faster than their BRAND NEW Dell Laptops, so I'm productive sooner than they are. AND I don't worry about viruses.
I actually returned the company PC because it was frustratingly slow.
That's an intelligent response. Yeah if you go as far as spreadsheets you're ok. But you still needed to shell out $$$ for M$... But for enterprise applications or enterprise support you aren't going to find it with a mac.
The white macbook is the only thing that I recommend on the computer side. It is pretty robust. I have had mine for a while and have bought one for my wife and recommend them to everyone. Just put another monitor next to it and you are set.
Except the plastic on mine is cracking. They have QC issues. I have had several issues... Too long to get into.
I get he's comparing it to the HPs, but has he ever used a Thinkpad?
I love Mac, and what it offers to me, and it's flexibility, but this pissing contest and uninformed articles are really getting annoying now, from both the sides.
Yeah, my plastic is cracking too...
That's why they invented duck tape I guess
You can only use 3 of the 4 GBs of ram in the HP laptop featured in the commercial, did you realize that? Why would HP include ram that windows cant even use? Why does microsoft want you to buy it?
I think once you answer the above question honestly, you'll realize how snarky you ended up.
IMO, of course. Heh.
p.s. The Windows security and PC repair industries are a multi-billion dollar a year segments. 'buy a cheap pc, steal software from dad' argument = not so good.
Excuse me? Wow, listen to you... I'm sorry that I actually have a parent who offers me some assistance through the software he buys. Maybe that's a foreign concept to you.
And to answer your question, I guess I'll be snarky. You do realize that I wasn't talking about memory in the first place, so I'm not entirely sure why you brought something like that up towards me.
Man, I just converted to being a Mac user 4 months ago, but if I knew I'd be a part of moron's like the author of Business Week, I'd rather not pull out my Macbook Pro at all in public.
I get he's comparing it to the HPs, but has he ever used a Thinkpad?
I love Mac, and what it offers to me, and it's flexibility, but this pissing contest and uninformed articles are really getting annoying now, from both the sides.
I agree comparison was ridiculous here, MB Pro VS HP $699 laptop.. Comparison should have been between White Mac book vs HP's $699 PC..
This last week I spent with my girlfriend in another island, recently she bought an iBook. Has always worked on a PC with Windows. Both her son, an IT Geek and Me, garden variety 65 year old Geek, we both recommended a mac. Her new education demands she use windows 07. Ouch! So, a first for me, i am no techie, don't do timecode or such, i am more an intuitive kind of geek. So, there I was setting up a partition via bootcamp, as suggested by her son. printed out the instructions, 25 pages from a fallen tree, followed them to the letter. Installed windows 07 and word. Voila! perfection.
However
As i was installing and following the bouncing ms ball i could not help but think as to how ugly the whole interface of MS anything is. Sure I use MS for Mac. different breed than for a PC. It is horrible. the type face, the details yuck, yetch, blurp, sikko.
Yep, you get the idea, vomit!
So all these Apple vs PC arguments, commercials from MS, it's all horse doo doo.
I buy a mac, I turn it on, straight out of the box, it works.
Simple, Elegant and Well Worth The Price. Amen.
my only mistake was to not buy apple shares in 200&1. Bugger!
Yeah, my plastic is cracking too...
And do you still think Macs are better built than average PCs? Or just better looking?
Honest question; I still tend to believe - hardware wise - that Macs are all about perceived quality rather than real quality. There are some great parts for sure - LED displays, for example... but put all together...