Funny you mention that - I just built a PC for my bud using 4 SSD's and 6GB of DDR3 RAM, and the entire set up, with the tower/MOBO/Graphic card ran close to $2500 bucks.
So this PC's are cheap arguments hold no truth. There's TOO MUCH to choose from, and you dont always get the best quality (which does happen if you try to be cheap) - but if you build your system properly - they WILL last.
All that missing software and the extra fees can easily double the cost of the cheap PC hardware. And as the report describes, the bargain basement HP hardware isn't very compelling, with a wimpy battery rated for 2.5 hours compared to the MacBook Pro's eight, an extra 1.2 pounds of weight in a thicker case, and a far lower quality display with much lower resolution, 1440x900 compared to the MacBook Pro's 1920x1200.
Up to a point, more is often better, but if there are too many pixels in a given area, it gets hard to read the text. 133ppi is really pushing it for me. A 133ppi res would be great if resolution independence was available, but it's not, and that makes objects too small.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster
First Google result for "Free anti virus" was AVG, an excellent AV.
If someone is too stupid to google that, then yeah I recommend a Mac for them
Check some of the "sponsored links". I recall research that showed most people don't realize what links are sponsored. I did a search for Spybot Search & Destroy because I forget their URL, and I notice the sponsored links to Spy|Bot Search & Destroy going to a very suspicious domain. Given that virus and antivirus is a very lucrative issue, a lot of companies out there offer antivirus which is really a virus in itself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27
I find it so very interesting how Apple has become a label, and almost a religion these days.
These days? It's been like that seemingly forever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp
In my life experience I have found that you do generally get what you pay for. Quality and real value cost more, whether it's cars, food, or computers. A lot of people don't understand that. These are the "I got one just as good as (insert brand name product) for half the price" crowd. No they didn't.
There has to be a point where you're throwing money away by paying too much. Do you get any of your clothes at Nieman Marcus or similar? Paying for a Sony computer is often worse than paying for some of their cheaper competitors. Paying for bottled water is often worse than just using tap water. For how many people is paying for a Snap-On going to be more worth it than Craftsman equivalent? Won't they both do a good job of turning the bolt?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyKrz
Great analogy. They'll both give you a buzz. They're both the same color and you drink them from the same glass, but that $50 bottle is probably going to taste a whole lot better (and probably give you a much cleaner buzz). On the other hand, some $50 bottles of wine suck worse than the $10 grocery store bottle. Also, it is really just a matter of opinion when it comes down to it even though you and I may know the real difference which makes our opinion more educated, but still an opinion. I could go on forever with this. For the sake of the analogy, we all know that the $10 bottle in this case is horse piss and the $50 bottle is the most advanced (and yet easiest to use) operating system and hardware that any amount of money can buy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133
Part you didn't mention but I think will work with this analogy - $50 bottle is that much more expensive not only for the wine itself, but for fancy wooden hand-made box, certificate and luxury history of wine region, famous people who enjoyed that specific wine etc.
And there is beautiful wine glass in the box as well.
But wine itself, while different, is not necessarily better; it boils down to matter of taste.
I think the wine argument falls apart for these reasons. Not that I'm into wine. I can find more interesting things to do with $50.
That's an intelligent response. Yeah if you go as far as spreadsheets you're ok. But you still needed to shell out $$$ for M$... But for enterprise applications or enterprise support you aren't going to find it with a mac.
The white macbook is the only thing that I recommend on the computer side. It is pretty robust. I have had mine for a while and have bought one for my wife and recommend them to everyone. Just put another monitor next to it and you are set.
Except the plastic on mine is cracking. They have QC issues. I have had several issues... Too long to get into.
I have a PowerBook G4 I bought in 2002. it has travelled the world, the us west, the islands of Aotearoa. it has been dropped, coated in coffee, red wine, and continues to work better than ever. i update my software as soon as it becomes available, i have a LaCie 250 gig external as backup for time machine, i use iPhoto, iTune, iPod, not yet an iPhone as in NZ we are being ripped off by the service provider. I Blog, write, edit. The frame of my 15" is bent, separated but it continues to hum. I recently bought a new battery. my first since new. When I lived in New York & Venice Beach I prowled the Apple Stores regularly, i love the whole Apple Filosophy. I am about to update my PowerBook to ??? I have a DeskTop G5 for editing with 10 terabytes of storage, eSATA, I love it. The best editing system I have ever owned, takes me back to my film sprocket days. Sure I have done AVID but when they threatened to go purely pc I said "Fine, I am going purely FCP". First editor in the world to edit TV Commercials on FCP. Y.E.S.!
I tell my PC friends the same thing about cheap components and price of software and resolution, but they are happy with their cheap shit.
It's like trying to get someone to go into a wine shop and select a $50 bottle of wine, when they are just as happy with a $10 bottle from the grocery store. It's just not worth the effort.
Don't you mean the $10 box of wine from the grocery store? You are giving them too much credit with a $10 bottle.
PC users don't seem to mind the cheap hardware they buy, well, until it starts falling apart.
Put the Xbox down, say goodnight to mum and go to your bed in your parent's basement. Facts over Flames fanboy.
Hey look, it's the internet classic, "you must live in your mothers basement." Well done.
But ironic, since you come off like an unusually pompous 14 year old. At the very least, someone who has precious little experience with the real world and believes that folks divide neatly up into "creatives" and "merchants", and purchase their computer hardware accordingly. It sounds like something you overheard your father say that struck you as wise.
And, "bud": it's pretty well understood, at this point, that anyone who relies heavily on "fan boy" as a characterization is probably dumb as a fucking stump and has little to no argument to make.
You want to talk about Apple plusses and minuses, in a forum you are new to, like a reasonable fellow? Dial back the douchebaggery from 11.
Microsoft has come out with an ad that completely avoids mentioning the main product of Microsoft (Vista). Quite obviously, they avoid mentioning Vista for a reason - they dont want to play up Vista too much, because it has very bad image in the market.
So they decide to focus on a partner's (HP's) product, and a competitor's product.
But wait a minute -- HP's machine runs the very same Vista that even Microsoft is too ashamed to associate with! Why on earth should anyone buy a computer with Vista on it, if the company that made Vista is too ashamed to be associated with Vista?
I think this is the question people should consider first. I think once this question is answered, the choices become more obvious - HP, DELL, etc. also make Linux computers. So maybe the real choice for people is, Linux if you dont have the money, or if you have the money and the time to deal with all the handholding involved with Linux, or Apple if you have the money. If you dont have the money, you can still stretch and go with Apple if you want a computer that just works out of the box.
I cant see how this ad actually "helps" Microsoft. I just hope Apple comes out with a proper response focussing on this point - and just crushes MS.
I tell my PC friends the same thing about cheap components and price of software and resolution, but they are happy with their cheap shit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
Let them have their cheap machines. Macs aren't for everyone. And if they did get one and liked it they would be stuck with Macs forever, like when you get an HDTV and HD cable and can't stand to watch SD anymore.
In terms of hardware, I definitely would say that Mac has better components and quality compared to PCs four years ago. Nowadays the hardware quality of Macs aren't that much better than most PCs today. The crappy plastic on Macbooks... TN Screens (yeah, yeah, everyone is using TN on laptops nowadays)... removing the matte screen options for affordable models (TN display quality isn't that good anyway, so why bother)... on the other hand ironically paying $50 to get rid of the awful glass on the 17" Macbook Pro... impractical hinge angle... much lower reliability than than that in the PPC era... One who dares to say that Mac has better hardware quality are either still living in the past or just simply being ignorant.
Nowadays the only reason I would recommend Mac is because of its OS, Mac OS X, and its integrated multimedia software solution, iLife. But sadly, Leopard has a much worse user interface than Tiger. Mac OS X Leopard's trend of sacrificing usability for visual effect is one of the tragedies that Apple has done in the recent years. I hope Apple would stop the madness in 10.6.
Oh well... no matter what the UI quality is on Leopard, Apple can still just sit back and laugh at Vista anyway.
meant to write: there are clearly a lot of PC buyers
,dave
Actually, he is correct. The contraction "there's" (there is) refers to "lot" which is singular, not buyers which is part of the prepositional phrase that refers to "lot".
But sadly, Leopard has a much worse user interface than Tiger. Mac OS X Leopard's trend of sacrificing usability for visual effect is one of the tragedies that Apple has done in the recent years.
This is a puzzling statement. I prefer Leopard myself, and can't think of a single aspect of it that makes it worse than Tiger. Perhaps it is a worse user interface, but for you to say that it's much worse doesn't seem reasonable.
I think it is also worth noting that the useful life of the MacBook Pro will far exceed the usefulness of the PC Notebook. I would contend that due to Window OS inefficiencies and built in obsolescence the PC user will replace their PC notebook 3 times as opposed to the Mac user. I wonder if this is a good topic for a "poll".
Hey look, it's the internet classic, "you must live in your mothers basement." Well done.
But ironic, since you come off like an unusually pompous 14 year old. At the very least, someone who has precious little experience with the real world and believes that folks divide neatly up into "creatives" and "merchants", and purchase their computer hardware accordingly. It sounds like something you overheard your father say that struck you as wise.
And, "bud": it's pretty well understood, at this point, that anyone who relies heavily on "fan boy" as a characterization is probably dumb as a fucking stump and has little to no argument to make.
You want to talk about Apple plusses and minuses, in a forum you are new to, like a reasonable fellow? Dial back the douchebaggery from 11.
But ironic, since you come off like an unusually pompous 14 year old. At the very least, someone who has precious little experience with the real world and believes that folks divide neatly up into "creatives" and "merchants", and purchase their computer hardware accordingly. It sounds like something you overheard your father say that struck you as wise.
And, "bud": it's pretty well understood, at this point, that anyone who relies heavily on "fan boy" as a characterization is probably dumb as a fucking stump and has little to no argument to make.
You want to talk about Apple plusses and minuses, in a forum you are new to, like a reasonable fellow? Dial back the douchebaggery from 11.
You got major problems. Name calling is so tired. Not one thing have you added to the discussion -not one. Apple is overpriced. Name an analyst who thinks otherwise besides the fanboy trolling with the Appe exec-The MacMini being the latest title holder.
I buy a PC every year but not a Mac because of the price not because of the Os.And am record my own music too without Mac,as soon the price drop i will be there...Linux let me record 24 bit/192 khz.for free...Now the computer does not matter the sound card yes...
And do you still think Macs are better built than average PCs? Or just better looking?
Honest question; I still tend to believe - hardware wise - that Macs are all about perceived quality rather than real quality. There are some great parts for sure - LED displays, for example... but put all together...
Back in late 2005 when I got the leaked preview of Longhorn, I knew the successor of Windows XP would be a dead duck. That was when I decided to abandon Windows for good. (I had a PC and a Mac back then.) But unfortunately, that was also when Apple started lowering the bar on Mac hardware and software (especially Leopard's UI and iMovie). Ironically, I'd never thought that I would be buying a new laptop with a "downgraded" Windows XP three years later.
I buy a PC every year but not a Mac because of the price not because of the Os.And am record my own music too without Mac,as soon the price drop i will be there...Linux let me record 24 bit/192 khz.for free...Now the computer does not matter the sound card yes...
Now there's a ringing endorsement. Of something. Annual PC buying, I guess.
Comments
So this PC's are cheap arguments hold no truth. There's TOO MUCH to choose from, and you dont always get the best quality (which does happen if you try to be cheap) - but if you build your system properly - they WILL last.
All that missing software and the extra fees can easily double the cost of the cheap PC hardware. And as the report describes, the bargain basement HP hardware isn't very compelling, with a wimpy battery rated for 2.5 hours compared to the MacBook Pro's eight, an extra 1.2 pounds of weight in a thicker case, and a far lower quality display with much lower resolution, 1440x900 compared to the MacBook Pro's 1920x1200.
Up to a point, more is often better, but if there are too many pixels in a given area, it gets hard to read the text. 133ppi is really pushing it for me. A 133ppi res would be great if resolution independence was available, but it's not, and that makes objects too small.
First Google result for "Free anti virus" was AVG, an excellent AV.
If someone is too stupid to google that, then yeah I recommend a Mac for them
Check some of the "sponsored links". I recall research that showed most people don't realize what links are sponsored. I did a search for Spybot Search & Destroy because I forget their URL, and I notice the sponsored links to Spy|Bot Search & Destroy going to a very suspicious domain. Given that virus and antivirus is a very lucrative issue, a lot of companies out there offer antivirus which is really a virus in itself.
I find it so very interesting how Apple has become a label, and almost a religion these days.
These days? It's been like that seemingly forever.
In my life experience I have found that you do generally get what you pay for. Quality and real value cost more, whether it's cars, food, or computers. A lot of people don't understand that. These are the "I got one just as good as (insert brand name product) for half the price" crowd. No they didn't.
There has to be a point where you're throwing money away by paying too much. Do you get any of your clothes at Nieman Marcus or similar? Paying for a Sony computer is often worse than paying for some of their cheaper competitors. Paying for bottled water is often worse than just using tap water. For how many people is paying for a Snap-On going to be more worth it than Craftsman equivalent? Won't they both do a good job of turning the bolt?
Great analogy. They'll both give you a buzz. They're both the same color and you drink them from the same glass, but that $50 bottle is probably going to taste a whole lot better (and probably give you a much cleaner buzz). On the other hand, some $50 bottles of wine suck worse than the $10 grocery store bottle. Also, it is really just a matter of opinion when it comes down to it even though you and I may know the real difference which makes our opinion more educated, but still an opinion. I could go on forever with this. For the sake of the analogy, we all know that the $10 bottle in this case is horse piss and the $50 bottle is the most advanced (and yet easiest to use) operating system and hardware that any amount of money can buy.
Part you didn't mention but I think will work with this analogy - $50 bottle is that much more expensive not only for the wine itself, but for fancy wooden hand-made box, certificate and luxury history of wine region, famous people who enjoyed that specific wine etc.
And there is beautiful wine glass in the box as well.
But wine itself, while different, is not necessarily better; it boils down to matter of taste.
I think the wine argument falls apart for these reasons. Not that I'm into wine. I can find more interesting things to do with $50.
That's an intelligent response. Yeah if you go as far as spreadsheets you're ok. But you still needed to shell out $$$ for M$... But for enterprise applications or enterprise support you aren't going to find it with a mac.
The white macbook is the only thing that I recommend on the computer side. It is pretty robust. I have had mine for a while and have bought one for my wife and recommend them to everyone. Just put another monitor next to it and you are set.
Except the plastic on mine is cracking. They have QC issues. I have had several issues... Too long to get into.
I have a PowerBook G4 I bought in 2002. it has travelled the world, the us west, the islands of A
I tell my PC friends the same thing about cheap components and price of software and resolution, but they are happy with their cheap shit.
It's like trying to get someone to go into a wine shop and select a $50 bottle of wine, when they are just as happy with a $10 bottle from the grocery store. It's just not worth the effort.
Don't you mean the $10 box of wine from the grocery store? You are giving them too much credit with a $10 bottle.
PC users don't seem to mind the cheap hardware they buy, well, until it starts falling apart.
Put the Xbox down, say goodnight to mum and go to your bed in your parent's basement. Facts over Flames fanboy.
Hey look, it's the internet classic, "you must live in your mothers basement." Well done.
But ironic, since you come off like an unusually pompous 14 year old. At the very least, someone who has precious little experience with the real world and believes that folks divide neatly up into "creatives" and "merchants", and purchase their computer hardware accordingly. It sounds like something you overheard your father say that struck you as wise.
And, "bud": it's pretty well understood, at this point, that anyone who relies heavily on "fan boy" as a characterization is probably dumb as a fucking stump and has little to no argument to make.
You want to talk about Apple plusses and minuses, in a forum you are new to, like a reasonable fellow? Dial back the douchebaggery from 11.
So they decide to focus on a partner's (HP's) product, and a competitor's product.
But wait a minute -- HP's machine runs the very same Vista that even Microsoft is too ashamed to associate with! Why on earth should anyone buy a computer with Vista on it, if the company that made Vista is too ashamed to be associated with Vista?
I think this is the question people should consider first. I think once this question is answered, the choices become more obvious - HP, DELL, etc. also make Linux computers. So maybe the real choice for people is, Linux if you dont have the money, or if you have the money and the time to deal with all the handholding involved with Linux, or Apple if you have the money. If you dont have the money, you can still stretch and go with Apple if you want a computer that just works out of the box.
I cant see how this ad actually "helps" Microsoft. I just hope Apple comes out with a proper response focussing on this point - and just crushes MS.
I tell my PC friends the same thing about cheap components and price of software and resolution, but they are happy with their cheap shit.
Let them have their cheap machines. Macs aren't for everyone. And if they did get one and liked it they would be stuck with Macs forever, like when you get an HDTV and HD cable and can't stand to watch SD anymore.
In terms of hardware, I definitely would say that Mac has better components and quality compared to PCs four years ago. Nowadays the hardware quality of Macs aren't that much better than most PCs today. The crappy plastic on Macbooks... TN Screens (yeah, yeah, everyone is using TN on laptops nowadays)... removing the matte screen options for affordable models (TN display quality isn't that good anyway, so why bother)... on the other hand ironically paying $50 to get rid of the awful glass on the 17" Macbook Pro... impractical hinge angle... much lower reliability than than that in the PPC era... One who dares to say that Mac has better hardware quality are either still living in the past or just simply being ignorant.
Nowadays the only reason I would recommend Mac is because of its OS, Mac OS X, and its integrated multimedia software solution, iLife. But sadly, Leopard has a much worse user interface than Tiger. Mac OS X Leopard's trend of sacrificing usability for visual effect is one of the tragedies that Apple has done in the recent years. I hope Apple would stop the madness in 10.6.
Oh well... no matter what the UI quality is on Leopard, Apple can still just sit back and laugh at Vista anyway.
Daniel,
You wrote: there's clearly a lot of PC buyers
and, I am sure you
meant to write: there are clearly a lot of PC buyers
,dave
Actually, he is correct. The contraction "there's" (there is) refers to "lot" which is singular, not buyers which is part of the prepositional phrase that refers to "lot".
"There's a lot" is like saying "There's a Mac".
Seriously anyone who remotely consider themselves as a geek and still recommends Sony computers needs to get their head checked.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_So...ection_scandal
And like what does that link have to do at all with computers?
I think this response is very classy.
Ditto.
Then why Apple was attacking PC before? This is __ and this is a __..
That was software , this is hardware? Hello? Are you so daft?
But sadly, Leopard has a much worse user interface than Tiger. Mac OS X Leopard's trend of sacrificing usability for visual effect is one of the tragedies that Apple has done in the recent years.
This is a puzzling statement. I prefer Leopard myself, and can't think of a single aspect of it that makes it worse than Tiger. Perhaps it is a worse user interface, but for you to say that it's much worse doesn't seem reasonable.
Hey look, it's the internet classic, "you must live in your mothers basement." Well done.
But ironic, since you come off like an unusually pompous 14 year old. At the very least, someone who has precious little experience with the real world and believes that folks divide neatly up into "creatives" and "merchants", and purchase their computer hardware accordingly. It sounds like something you overheard your father say that struck you as wise.
And, "bud": it's pretty well understood, at this point, that anyone who relies heavily on "fan boy" as a characterization is probably dumb as a fucking stump and has little to no argument to make.
You want to talk about Apple plusses and minuses, in a forum you are new to, like a reasonable fellow? Dial back the douchebaggery from 11.
Bravo!
Too many trolls lately.
But ironic, since you come off like an unusually pompous 14 year old. At the very least, someone who has precious little experience with the real world and believes that folks divide neatly up into "creatives" and "merchants", and purchase their computer hardware accordingly. It sounds like something you overheard your father say that struck you as wise.
And, "bud": it's pretty well understood, at this point, that anyone who relies heavily on "fan boy" as a characterization is probably dumb as a fucking stump and has little to no argument to make.
You want to talk about Apple plusses and minuses, in a forum you are new to, like a reasonable fellow? Dial back the douchebaggery from 11.
You got major problems. Name calling is so tired. Not one thing have you added to the discussion -not one. Apple is overpriced. Name an analyst who thinks otherwise besides the fanboy trolling with the Appe exec-The MacMini being the latest title holder.
And do you still think Macs are better built than average PCs? Or just better looking?
Honest question; I still tend to believe - hardware wise - that Macs are all about perceived quality rather than real quality. There are some great parts for sure - LED displays, for example... but put all together...
Back in late 2005 when I got the leaked preview of Longhorn, I knew the successor of Windows XP would be a dead duck. That was when I decided to abandon Windows for good. (I had a PC and a Mac back then.) But unfortunately, that was also when Apple started lowering the bar on Mac hardware and software (especially Leopard's UI and iMovie). Ironically, I'd never thought that I would be buying a new laptop with a "downgraded" Windows XP three years later.
I buy a PC every year but not a Mac because of the price not because of the Os.And am record my own music too without Mac,as soon the price drop i will be there...Linux let me record 24 bit/192 khz.for free...Now the computer does not matter the sound card yes...
Now there's a ringing endorsement. Of something. Annual PC buying, I guess.
Now there's a ringing endorsement. Of something. Annual PC buying, I guess.
It's the Microsoft tax.
So right now your dream (and actually mine) is not going to happen.
Agreed. At the end of the day, this is the inescapable truth.