Stuff like this just goes to show that guess what: Apple uses the same internals as standard PCs, including Dell and HP and such. Therefore, privy to the same hardware failures. More so when you make your cases too thin and inadequate cooling systems. Heat was the reason my ATI chip in my MBP died just outside of a year of ownership.
Same internals as your normal PC. Go figure. And these cost how much again? I built a computer with much better specs as the current iMac, and with a 20in screen included, still came out to 700 bucks. Same internals folks.
Apple, suggestion. Work on your cooling in your hardware, as right now, its what plaques your systems. Thin and attractive is one thing... working hardware is another.
Same internals as your normal PC. Go figure. And these cost how much again? I built a computer with much better specs as the current iMac, and with a 20in screen included, still came out to 700 bucks. Same internals folks.
Just wondering if any "Hackentosh" type rigs are suffering the same problems?
Might point to software/drivers as opposed to hardware/cooling as the solution.
Or it could be a really great argument for getting the extended warantee - I always do.
Stuff like this just goes to show that guess what: Apple uses the same internals as standard PCs, including Dell and HP and such. Therefore, privy to the same hardware failures. More so when you make your cases too thin and inadequate cooling systems. Heat was the reason my ATI chip in my MBP died just outside of a year of ownership.
Same internals as your normal PC. Go figure. And these cost how much again? I built a computer with much better specs as the current iMac, and with a 20in screen included, still came out to 700 bucks. Same internals folks.
Apple, suggestion. Work on your cooling in your hardware, as right now, its what plaques your systems. Thin and attractive is one thing... working hardware is another.
That's not always true though. At the board level there are are often different parts. But when discussing GPU's and CPU's along with their support chips, apple has no choice. It's basically down to Nvidia and ATI, at least until Intel comes out with Larrabee next year.
In a near-repeat of an issue that plagued the aluminum iMac early on, owners of new iMacs equipped with the ATI Radeon HD 4850 graphics chipset are encountering frequent system freeze issues.
Various buyers reporting back to AppleInsider, as well as those in Apple's support forums (one, two), describe an issue where iMacs custom-ordered with the faster video hardware will hard-lock at random, forcing the user to reboot.
The freezes occur regardless of what software happens to be running and aren't even connected to whether or not the user is running Mac OS X; some testing the issue note that it happens when running Windows in Boot Camp, where Mac-only drivers wouldn't be a factor. None of the typical troubleshooting steps have an effect on the flaw, including resets for the PRAM or the SMC unit that are often used to diagnose hardware-only problems.
What, exactly, is rendering these systems unusable remains a mystery, though the symptoms will be eerily familiar for early adoptees of the aluminum all-in-one desktop. In the fall of 2007, owners (and AppleInsider) reported an interface freeze issue where the interface would become virtually unresponsive, even while some tasks would continue to run. The new issue is more severe as it appears to halt all activity, though in the previous situation Apple ultimately still needed to fix the freezing through a firmware update that modified the behavior of the video chipset itself.
Apple may already be aware of the issue. Some of those calling the company's support line have heard from technicians that there are numerous reports and that a fix is in the works, possibly arriving along with the looming Mac OS X 10.5.7 update. Some are being offered replacement systems after unsuccessful troubleshooting.
I've always had issues with ATI cards in my Mac's. I'd go with whatever the highest performing Nvidia GPU. I believe that's the GT130 for the new iMacs. Once AMD took them over seems like Graphics takes a back seat.... My 2 cents
So why does apple score an 80 in overall customer experiance?
Because there are enough fan boys buying Apple products that when they are asked about problems in those surveys, they simply ignore them and report all is well. Or, if they do report a problem, its scope is minimized.
Well I can't say I'm surprised. I vaguely remember people were having the same issue with this card on PC's. It was the Sapphire 4850 if I remember correctly. I think it was a matter of updating the drivers to fix it.
I was looking at getting two 4850's when they came out then decided against it. Knowing my luck I probably would have been one of the people with issues.
Because there are enough fan boys buying Apple products that when they are asked about problems in those surveys, they simply ignore them and report all is well. Or, if they do report a problem, its scope is minimized.
-kpluck
OR, it COULD be that people like it? When have you ever owned a product that you had issues with that you kept silent about? I don't know a single person who does that.
Sorry, just think that your explanation is too convenient lol
Just wondering if any "Hackentosh" type rigs are suffering the same problems?
Might point to software/drivers as opposed to hardware/cooling as the solution.
Or it could be a really great argument for getting the extended warantee - I always do.
If it is a heat issue, probably not. Traditional desktop tower-style computers are just under a lot less thermal stress than the sort of thin, quiet, almost small-form-factor computers Apple makes. They have bigger fans and more room inside for air to circulate.
So you're right that it might point to a software vs hardware problem, but ultimately it is up to Apple's engineers to fix it either way.
Because there are enough fan boys buying Apple products that when they are asked about problems in those surveys, they simply ignore them and report all is well. Or, if they do report a problem, its scope is minimized.
-kpluck
Mac users are known as being the biggest complainers. We tend to expect everything to be perfect, when it's just the slightest bit off, people aren't happy.
PC owners don't expect things to work well from the start. Yet they complain much more.
But neither of you have justified your statements that essentially ALL manufacturing in China is poor, flawed, or whatever other accusations you want to make.
You seem to have lost track of who said what. sflocal made the more blanket statement. JDW backed up much, but not all, of what sflocal said. I related my own manufacturing experience in both Japan and China to agree with what JDW said.
I DO take exception of blanket statements about whole industries when you only have some knowledge of it in the line in which you work.
Maybe we should all meet up at the next MacWorld or the World Wide Developers Conference. Then we can all flop our "knowledge" on the table and see whose is the biggest?
And about that moderator thing. Nice try, but there are more than a few sites that would kick you off for just disagreeing.
Why do I get the feeling that you would love to be able to use that excuse? You just made my point about the 500 gorilla in the room. Moderators should moderate, not subjugate.
You seem to have lost track of who said what. sflocal made the more blanket statement. JDW backed up much, but not all, of what sflocal said. I related my own manufacturing experience in both Japan and China to agree with what JDW said.
All I have asked for if for acknowledgement that your experiences allow that others have had different ones.
You seem to be angry that I have had, and know of other,good, experiences in this.
I've stated this time and again. It's pretty simple.
Maybe we should all meet up at the next MacWorld or the World Wide Developers Conference. Then we can all flop our "knowledge" on the table and see whose is the biggest?
Why do I get the feeling that you would love to be able to use that excuse? You just made my point about the 500 gorilla in the room. Moderators should moderate, not subjugate.
As you should be able to tell by the number of my posts, I've been a mamber here, and have been posting for quite a while.
It was long after that that I was asked to moderate as well. I've seen few posts where mods don't also enter discussions. Perhaps if I had started out as a mod, it would have been different.
Since you are new here, you don't understand my position on posters. Unlike what you want to think, I bend over backwards to allow free discussions. I've never cut anyone off except for spamming, and over the top language, even while I've been insulted by them. Try that elsewhere.
Comments
Same internals as your normal PC. Go figure. And these cost how much again? I built a computer with much better specs as the current iMac, and with a 20in screen included, still came out to 700 bucks. Same internals folks.
Apple, suggestion. Work on your cooling in your hardware, as right now, its what plaques your systems. Thin and attractive is one thing... working hardware is another.
Same internals as your normal PC. Go figure. And these cost how much again? I built a computer with much better specs as the current iMac, and with a 20in screen included, still came out to 700 bucks. Same internals folks.
Just wondering if any "Hackentosh" type rigs are suffering the same problems?
Might point to software/drivers as opposed to hardware/cooling as the solution.
Or it could be a really great argument for getting the extended warantee - I always do.
Stuff like this just goes to show that guess what: Apple uses the same internals as standard PCs, including Dell and HP and such. Therefore, privy to the same hardware failures. More so when you make your cases too thin and inadequate cooling systems. Heat was the reason my ATI chip in my MBP died just outside of a year of ownership.
Same internals as your normal PC. Go figure. And these cost how much again? I built a computer with much better specs as the current iMac, and with a 20in screen included, still came out to 700 bucks. Same internals folks.
Apple, suggestion. Work on your cooling in your hardware, as right now, its what plaques your systems. Thin and attractive is one thing... working hardware is another.
That's not always true though. At the board level there are are often different parts. But when discussing GPU's and CPU's along with their support chips, apple has no choice. It's basically down to Nvidia and ATI, at least until Intel comes out with Larrabee next year.
http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/
In a near-repeat of an issue that plagued the aluminum iMac early on, owners of new iMacs equipped with the ATI Radeon HD 4850 graphics chipset are encountering frequent system freeze issues.
Various buyers reporting back to AppleInsider, as well as those in Apple's support forums (one, two), describe an issue where iMacs custom-ordered with the faster video hardware will hard-lock at random, forcing the user to reboot.
The freezes occur regardless of what software happens to be running and aren't even connected to whether or not the user is running Mac OS X; some testing the issue note that it happens when running Windows in Boot Camp, where Mac-only drivers wouldn't be a factor. None of the typical troubleshooting steps have an effect on the flaw, including resets for the PRAM or the SMC unit that are often used to diagnose hardware-only problems.
What, exactly, is rendering these systems unusable remains a mystery, though the symptoms will be eerily familiar for early adoptees of the aluminum all-in-one desktop. In the fall of 2007, owners (and AppleInsider) reported an interface freeze issue where the interface would become virtually unresponsive, even while some tasks would continue to run. The new issue is more severe as it appears to halt all activity, though in the previous situation Apple ultimately still needed to fix the freezing through a firmware update that modified the behavior of the video chipset itself.
Apple may already be aware of the issue. Some of those calling the company's support line have heard from technicians that there are numerous reports and that a fix is in the works, possibly arriving along with the looming Mac OS X 10.5.7 update. Some are being offered replacement systems after unsuccessful troubleshooting.
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]
I've always had issues with ATI cards in my Mac's. I'd go with whatever the highest performing Nvidia GPU. I believe that's the GT130 for the new iMacs. Once AMD took them over seems like Graphics takes a back seat.... My 2 cents
So why does apple score an 80 in overall customer experiance?
Because there are enough fan boys buying Apple products that when they are asked about problems in those surveys, they simply ignore them and report all is well. Or, if they do report a problem, its scope is minimized.
-kpluck
I was looking at getting two 4850's when they came out then decided against it. Knowing my luck I probably would have been one of the people with issues.
Because there are enough fan boys buying Apple products that when they are asked about problems in those surveys, they simply ignore them and report all is well. Or, if they do report a problem, its scope is minimized.
-kpluck
OR, it COULD be that people like it? When have you ever owned a product that you had issues with that you kept silent about? I don't know a single person who does that.
Sorry, just think that your explanation is too convenient lol
Those who are reporting the lock ups have been using WiFi while those who aren't reporting lock ups have been using ethernet with WiFi disabled.
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=688393
Well it is beginning to look like the issue might just be something to do with using WiFi.
Those who are reporting the lock ups have been using WiFi while those who aren't reporting lock ups have been using ethernet with WiFi disabled.
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=688393
That's hilarious if true.
Just wondering if any "Hackentosh" type rigs are suffering the same problems?
Might point to software/drivers as opposed to hardware/cooling as the solution.
Or it could be a really great argument for getting the extended warantee - I always do.
If it is a heat issue, probably not. Traditional desktop tower-style computers are just under a lot less thermal stress than the sort of thin, quiet, almost small-form-factor computers Apple makes. They have bigger fans and more room inside for air to circulate.
So you're right that it might point to a software vs hardware problem, but ultimately it is up to Apple's engineers to fix it either way.
Because there are enough fan boys buying Apple products that when they are asked about problems in those surveys, they simply ignore them and report all is well. Or, if they do report a problem, its scope is minimized.
-kpluck
Mac users are known as being the biggest complainers. We tend to expect everything to be perfect, when it's just the slightest bit off, people aren't happy.
PC owners don't expect things to work well from the start. Yet they complain much more.
But neither of you have justified your statements that essentially ALL manufacturing in China is poor, flawed, or whatever other accusations you want to make.
You seem to have lost track of who said what. sflocal made the more blanket statement. JDW backed up much, but not all, of what sflocal said. I related my own manufacturing experience in both Japan and China to agree with what JDW said.
I DO take exception of blanket statements about whole industries when you only have some knowledge of it in the line in which you work.
Maybe we should all meet up at the next MacWorld or the World Wide Developers Conference. Then we can all flop our "knowledge" on the table and see whose is the biggest?
And about that moderator thing. Nice try, but there are more than a few sites that would kick you off for just disagreeing.
Why do I get the feeling that you would love to be able to use that excuse? You just made my point about the 500 gorilla in the room. Moderators should moderate, not subjugate.
You seem to have lost track of who said what. sflocal made the more blanket statement. JDW backed up much, but not all, of what sflocal said. I related my own manufacturing experience in both Japan and China to agree with what JDW said.
All I have asked for if for acknowledgement that your experiences allow that others have had different ones.
You seem to be angry that I have had, and know of other,good, experiences in this.
I've stated this time and again. It's pretty simple.
Maybe we should all meet up at the next MacWorld or the World Wide Developers Conference. Then we can all flop our "knowledge" on the table and see whose is the biggest?
I know you think that's funny.
Why do I get the feeling that you would love to be able to use that excuse? You just made my point about the 500 gorilla in the room. Moderators should moderate, not subjugate.
As you should be able to tell by the number of my posts, I've been a mamber here, and have been posting for quite a while.
It was long after that that I was asked to moderate as well. I've seen few posts where mods don't also enter discussions. Perhaps if I had started out as a mod, it would have been different.
Since you are new here, you don't understand my position on posters. Unlike what you want to think, I bend over backwards to allow free discussions. I've never cut anyone off except for spamming, and over the top language, even while I've been insulted by them. Try that elsewhere.