Yes, what you are describing are ad-hominem attacks, which should not be allowed in a forum if you don't want every discussion to devolve into a childish tantrum and rant. However, from what I've seen here so far, such attacks are allowed and members who participate aren't reprimanded. A member named "iStink" is one example. To me, this is worse than annoying trolls trying to get a rise out of people by making outrageous claims. When it gets personal it shouldn't be tolerated. People should report these posts which should be removed by the Mods and the member warned or given a "time out."
Well the statement made by italiankid was dumb founded. But the statements made towards him were very childish and rude. In my eyes you have lost the same credibility that he had left. People that respond in such a foolish way often need to put people down in order to feel better about themselves.
With regards to the artical at hand; one could say that the American patent laws are not made or designed to judge who is the rightful owner but the legal owner. In that case the Judge may well have made a sound ruling. The judges are to interpret the law not to make them. I do, however, tend to agree with the position, held by some here, that patent laws should be revised and amended accordingly.
Apple will contest this ruling, and get it re-tried in CA., and win there
Or do they pay and get on to bigger and better things?
My guess is 19 million is what they make on the 28 BILLION in cash they have - in what ? 2 - 3 days?
By simply agreeing and paying, they open the doors wide open for others who think they will be easy prey. And I'm sure they are not going to want and pay these folks royalties on what ever technology they may or may not have a patent on.
The way to respond to "italiankid" an others like him is to educate, instead of descending to his level of "argument."
Education is how some Mac users are made. There is a great deal of ignorance out there, but the Mac ads, the beautifully-designed Apple Stores, and the people in these forums are just more tools that can be used to edcuate the mass of Windows users out there who either know no better or who are too frightened about leaving their familiar yet hoopelessly backward Windows paradigm.
Easier said than done sometimes, but it's what needs to happen.
There's not much of a threshold for ad-hominem attacks. They either are or aren't. Very little gray area, unless one allows their personal opinions to override good judgement. It's unnecessary to call people "douchebags" and "idiots" like I see some members here doing. People who do that are not contributing to the topic, they are instigating a flame war.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones
Of course you don't, your complete stupidity shines right on through, all the way down to your brilliant grammar skills. That is the only thing you have proven yourself to be...a complete retard.
Is there any question that the above post is a personal attack?
But this is off-topic, so, perhaps this should be discussed in a new thread.
There's not much of a threshold for ad-hominem attacks. They either are or aren't. Very little gray area, unless one allows their personal opinions to override good judgement. It's unnecessary to call people "douchebags" and "idiots" like I see some members here doing. People who do that are not contributing to the topic, they are instigating a flame war.
Is there any question that the above post is a personal attack?
But this is off-topic, so, perhaps this should be discussed in a new thread.
I agree. As to the last. It was much worse before I removed the the rest.
No insult to East Texas for one moment but companies who have given up their real business to concentrate on a law suit most likely scope out a jurisdiction to their particular advantage. It would seem to me if this is the case then Apple should appeal and try to get the case heard on a more neutral and tech aware aware court room. If it isn't the case and this judge was an up to date tech savvy person then it seems to be over. I know little of these matters other than I have read of certain jurisdiction are used for such cases, this may not be one of them. Anyone know if this is the case or not here?
You are correct. This is the one you probably read about. Patent holders flock there from around
the US because of the favorable rulings they have historically received there.
The way to respond to "italiankid" an others like him is to educate, instead of descending to his level of "argument."
I wish I could agree with you, but I, and many other, have tried but ItalianKid, Teckstud and Jfanning seem to have absolutely no interest in actually learning something on these forums. It's throws the threads off so the only recourse is to ignore, and even that isn't ideal. Personally, I want their IP addresses so I can go to their homes and destroy their computers. Can violence be a hobby?
Moving on....
The pay out of $19M for patent infringement seems like a joke. I'm not judging Apple's guilt one way or the other here but I would think that with the number of machines Apple sells, the amount of money they make each year and will continue to make, as well the penalty for the infringement itself that $19M is chump change for a valid patent. I have no idea what the value of it is (outside of $19M) but this doesn't seem to be a deterrent for future patent infringement if Apple is in the wrong nor a deterrent for patent squatters if OPTi is in the wrong.
As we've discussed before, the system is broken, but I won't complain about it because I have no idea how to being to resolve it.
That's not quite correct. If this does hold up, as the article says, and it's correct there, Apple may have to pay royalties to use the patented product, if as I said earlier, Apple has contributed to it in some way.
Actually not. The PCI implementations are different now then they were when the case was filed. It is fairly improbable that currently used buffering and switching techniques, which are are far faster than the ones sued over, would still be covered. It would take another entirely new lawsuit to cover that topic if Apple say's they changed something in response to the original suit.
Ouch! Well, this is what happens when Patents run rampant. Apple is just as guilty of pulling this kind of "patent everything" crap as OPTi (whoever the hell they are). Soon no company will be able to do anything without paying royalties to someone else.
I doubt the folks at Apple want to spend all their time writing patents - but imagine if they did not. If every one and his cousin with a law degree can sue Apple because they have a patent on using two fingers at the same time as novel mechanism for conveying information as an input to a computing device - then you can be sure that Apple or any other company with a patent lawsuit target painted on their back is going to have a crew of people writing patents for a method of folding single ply toilet paper before using it to wipe your arse.
This court case is an example of how stupid the residents of Texas really are.
Please don't put all Texans in one basket - I am embarrassed every time a patent case goes to the court in Marshall. It seems the court almost always sides on the patent holders side (which more and more seem to be patent warehousers).
We need patent reform but we also need judicial reform. Lets not let everybody that wants to file a case in Marshall, TX cause the idiots over there have such a high percentage win rate for these "ambulance chasing" patent attorneys.
I doubt the folks at Apple want to spend all their time writing patents - but imagine if they did not. If every one and his cousin with a law degree can sue Apple because they have a patent on using two fingers at the same time as novel mechanism for conveying information as an input to a computing device - then you can be sure that Apple or any other company with a patent lawsuit target painted on their back is going to have a crew of people writing patents for a method of folding single ply toilet paper before using it to wipe your arse.
The patent system seems to be rigged for abuse, especially if you have to patent something which is later marketed as intuitive. In some cases, gestures are patented, which I really don't get, but it's backed up by legalese about how it's supposed to be good for the electronic device.
This is just a first result from a very patent-holder friendly district. It is meaningless first because it's what $19 million? That's nothing to Apple and defines the worst-case outcome of this case. More likely as the suit goes up through the appeals process and the not so patent-holder-friendly appeals courts get ahold of the invariable "judge screwed up interpretation of X, Y & Z items" and the case gets overturned.
The value is small enough Apple might just pay it to make it go away, but it is also small enough a drawn-out appeals process may make the plantiff settle for less out of court so they don't loose everything on the appeal legal fees, let alone loose the judgement too.
The decision on how this one goes forward has more to do with how Tim Cook's family life has been this past week than anything else really. If he's happy Apple probably pays up and moves on. If he's pissed, to-bad-so-sad this one goes to the wire on principle.
Lose!
Lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose.
Not loose. Loose is your girlfriend on a Friday night with the football team.
Lose goddamnit!
How many other so-called 'educated' idiots are going to keep making the same mistake?
Comments
Yes, what you are describing are ad-hominem attacks, which should not be allowed in a forum if you don't want every discussion to devolve into a childish tantrum and rant. However, from what I've seen here so far, such attacks are allowed and members who participate aren't reprimanded. A member named "iStink" is one example. To me, this is worse than annoying trolls trying to get a rise out of people by making outrageous claims. When it gets personal it shouldn't be tolerated. People should report these posts which should be removed by the Mods and the member warned or given a "time out."
Every mod has a different threshold.
But there does seem to be more of this lately.
Every mod has a different threshold.
But there does seem to be more of this lately.
Possibly because we have more and more posters who explicitly dislike Macs and their users?
Possibly because we have more and more posters who explicitly dislike Macs and their users?
Possibly. But we may have to tighten up the ship a bit.
With regards to the artical at hand; one could say that the American patent laws are not made or designed to judge who is the rightful owner but the legal owner. In that case the Judge may well have made a sound ruling. The judges are to interpret the law not to make them. I do, however, tend to agree with the position, held by some here, that patent laws should be revised and amended accordingly.
Or do they pay and get on to bigger and better things?
My guess is 19 million is what they make on the 28 BILLION in cash they have - in what ? 2 - 3 days?
By simply agreeing and paying, they open the doors wide open for others who think they will be easy prey. And I'm sure they are not going to want and pay these folks royalties on what ever technology they may or may not have a patent on.
Skip
This is the LAST time you are going to respond this way, correct?
hillstones needs to check his ego at the door.
Absolutely inappropriate way of responding.
Education is how some Mac users are made. There is a great deal of ignorance out there, but the Mac ads, the beautifully-designed Apple Stores, and the people in these forums are just more tools that can be used to edcuate the mass of Windows users out there who either know no better or who are too frightened about leaving their familiar yet hoopelessly backward Windows paradigm.
Easier said than done sometimes, but it's what needs to happen.
Every mod has a different threshold.
But there does seem to be more of this lately.
There's not much of a threshold for ad-hominem attacks. They either are or aren't. Very little gray area, unless one allows their personal opinions to override good judgement. It's unnecessary to call people "douchebags" and "idiots" like I see some members here doing. People who do that are not contributing to the topic, they are instigating a flame war.
Of course you don't, your complete stupidity shines right on through, all the way down to your brilliant grammar skills. That is the only thing you have proven yourself to be...a complete retard.
Is there any question that the above post is a personal attack?
But this is off-topic, so, perhaps this should be discussed in a new thread.
There's not much of a threshold for ad-hominem attacks. They either are or aren't. Very little gray area, unless one allows their personal opinions to override good judgement. It's unnecessary to call people "douchebags" and "idiots" like I see some members here doing. People who do that are not contributing to the topic, they are instigating a flame war.
Is there any question that the above post is a personal attack?
But this is off-topic, so, perhaps this should be discussed in a new thread.
I agree. As to the last. It was much worse before I removed the the rest.
Next time, he will be banned.
No insult to East Texas for one moment but companies who have given up their real business to concentrate on a law suit most likely scope out a jurisdiction to their particular advantage. It would seem to me if this is the case then Apple should appeal and try to get the case heard on a more neutral and tech aware aware court room. If it isn't the case and this judge was an up to date tech savvy person then it seems to be over. I know little of these matters other than I have read of certain jurisdiction are used for such cases, this may not be one of them. Anyone know if this is the case or not here?
You are correct. This is the one you probably read about. Patent holders flock there from around
the US because of the favorable rulings they have historically received there.
The way to respond to "italiankid" an others like him is to educate, instead of descending to his level of "argument."
I wish I could agree with you, but I, and many other, have tried but ItalianKid, Teckstud and Jfanning seem to have absolutely no interest in actually learning something on these forums. It's throws the threads off so the only recourse is to ignore, and even that isn't ideal. Personally, I want their IP addresses so I can go to their homes and destroy their computers. Can violence be a hobby?
Moving on....
The pay out of $19M for patent infringement seems like a joke. I'm not judging Apple's guilt one way or the other here but I would think that with the number of machines Apple sells, the amount of money they make each year and will continue to make, as well the penalty for the infringement itself that $19M is chump change for a valid patent. I have no idea what the value of it is (outside of $19M) but this doesn't seem to be a deterrent for future patent infringement if Apple is in the wrong nor a deterrent for patent squatters if OPTi is in the wrong.
As we've discussed before, the system is broken, but I won't complain about it because I have no idea how to being to resolve it.
That's not quite correct. If this does hold up, as the article says, and it's correct there, Apple may have to pay royalties to use the patented product, if as I said earlier, Apple has contributed to it in some way.
Actually not. The PCI implementations are different now then they were when the case was filed. It is fairly improbable that currently used buffering and switching techniques, which are are far faster than the ones sued over, would still be covered. It would take another entirely new lawsuit to cover that topic if Apple say's they changed something in response to the original suit.
Ouch! Well, this is what happens when Patents run rampant. Apple is just as guilty of pulling this kind of "patent everything" crap as OPTi (whoever the hell they are). Soon no company will be able to do anything without paying royalties to someone else.
I doubt the folks at Apple want to spend all their time writing patents - but imagine if they did not. If every one and his cousin with a law degree can sue Apple because they have a patent on using two fingers at the same time as novel mechanism for conveying information as an input to a computing device - then you can be sure that Apple or any other company with a patent lawsuit target painted on their back is going to have a crew of people writing patents for a method of folding single ply toilet paper before using it to wipe your arse.
This court case is an example of how stupid the residents of Texas really are.
Please don't put all Texans in one basket - I am embarrassed every time a patent case goes to the court in Marshall. It seems the court almost always sides on the patent holders side (which more and more seem to be patent warehousers).
We need patent reform but we also need judicial reform. Lets not let everybody that wants to file a case in Marshall, TX cause the idiots over there have such a high percentage win rate for these "ambulance chasing" patent attorneys.
jOhn
Please don't put all Texans in one basket...
I agree. There are plenty of reasons to make fun of the whole of Texas but this is not on of them.
I agree. There are plenty of reasons to make fun of the whole of Texas but this is not on of them.
I'm getting Dallas and King of the Hill flashbacks here . . .
I doubt the folks at Apple want to spend all their time writing patents - but imagine if they did not. If every one and his cousin with a law degree can sue Apple because they have a patent on using two fingers at the same time as novel mechanism for conveying information as an input to a computing device - then you can be sure that Apple or any other company with a patent lawsuit target painted on their back is going to have a crew of people writing patents for a method of folding single ply toilet paper before using it to wipe your arse.
The patent system seems to be rigged for abuse, especially if you have to patent something which is later marketed as intuitive. In some cases, gestures are patented, which I really don't get, but it's backed up by legalese about how it's supposed to be good for the electronic device.
This is just a first result from a very patent-holder friendly district. It is meaningless first because it's what $19 million? That's nothing to Apple and defines the worst-case outcome of this case. More likely as the suit goes up through the appeals process and the not so patent-holder-friendly appeals courts get ahold of the invariable "judge screwed up interpretation of X, Y & Z items" and the case gets overturned.
The value is small enough Apple might just pay it to make it go away, but it is also small enough a drawn-out appeals process may make the plantiff settle for less out of court so they don't loose everything on the appeal legal fees, let alone loose the judgement too.
The decision on how this one goes forward has more to do with how Tim Cook's family life has been this past week than anything else really. If he's happy Apple probably pays up and moves on. If he's pissed, to-bad-so-sad this one goes to the wire on principle.
Lose!
Lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose.
Not loose. Loose is your girlfriend on a Friday night with the football team.
Lose goddamnit!
How many other so-called 'educated' idiots are going to keep making the same mistake?
Lose!
Lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose.
Not loose. Loose is your girlfriend on a Friday night with the football team.
Lose goddamnit!
How many other so-called 'educated' idiots are going to keep making the same mistake?
At least Grammar Girl took lessons from Miss Manners. I can't say that in this case.
Is this going to be the second thread today that is derailed by grammar complaints?