<strong>On a slightly differant note (not file management and the like), I like being able to browse through a folder of images as thumbnails, or watching a movie without a seperate viewer app (quicktime OS integration maybe).</strong><hr></blockquote>
You know both these things can be done in the Finder, right? <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
Use the view settings (Command-J) to turn on image thumbnails and enable columnview browsing (Command-3) to view QT-movies.
<strong>Yes, and if you use the cut command on a file, it should just make it invisible but keep it where it originally was. When you press paste, it moves the file. If you accidentally copy or cut something else, pushing the original out, it should return it to its original spot.</strong><hr></blockquote>
<strong>But completely, utterly and absolutely *UNLIKE* how cut/copy/paste works in *every other part* of MacOS X!</strong><hr></blockquote>
No, a bit unlike how cut works in every other part of OS X. Copy/Paste still works the same.
[quote]<strong>This is *precisely* why Windows is obtuse... it insists on subtly changing behaviour without telling you.</strong><hr></blockquote>
hear hear, agree with you on that one.
[quote]<strong>If you want to call it 'Prep Move', 'Prep Copy' and 'Finish Move/Copy' then fine, but don't call it Cut/Copy/Paste if it does something different.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Would those commands be put in a different menu also? With different keyboard shortcuts that people'd have to learn? All because of a metaphorical inconsistency?
The big problem here is not how the feature works, it's the general knowledge of how it works. Ppl are afraid to use it because of its possible destructive behaviour, or don't want to use it because they're not exactly sure what'll happen when they do (since it is a bit different from regular copypaste).
Asuggestion'd be that the first time a user cuts a file, throw up a info-dialogue (think Internet Explorer "you are entering a secure page") explaining how cut works, and a checkbox to not show it in the future.
Another'd be to create a "pasteboard well" where the cut files'd be moved to while waiting to be pasted.
The truth of the matter is, it IS a useful feature that a lot of people use and that I miss sometimes in OS X. So I think it needs to be implemented. In some form.
Well, for one I have to disagree with the opinion about the tree view. It would seem good at first, and once you get it, it's OK, but I have given up trying to teach about half a dozen of my family and firends on how to use it. Column view is exactly what they are looking for, and they get it right off the bat. I do agree with the general notion that the Finder is something of a mixed bag with some unsettled behavior.
What do you mean by alt-key modifiers, madmax? I hope you don't mean stuff like alt-5049 for the ? symbol (that's trademark in case safari messes this up [edit: fixed in OW 4.2b]) because it's far too complex for anyone to make real use of. The option characters and character palette beat Windows for special text character.
As for keyboard access, OS X's full keyboard access seems OK to me anyway. It might not be as good as Windows though, for as much as I use Windows, I haven't explored this very much beyond whatever alert is in front of me.
alt key modifier is when you hold down the alt key
& hit the letter thats underlined
eg &Ok &Cancel would have the O & C underlined
on osx when a dialog box popup eg a license agreement you can tab around if you full keyboard
access enabled, but hitting the enter/return key
doesnt do anything forcing you to use the mouse
right now osx is a mixed bag & apple shouldnt hesitate to take the best features from other os's if it will make osx better.
i disagree on the explorer, but then again ive been using/coding windoze since ver1 so the treeview metaphor works well for me...perhaps it could be added on as a view option in finder...
<strong>alt key modifier is when you hold down the alt key
& hit the letter thats underlined
eg &Ok &Cancel would have the O & C underlined
on osx when a dialog box popup eg a license agreement you can tab around if you full keyboard
access enabled, but hitting the enter/return key
doesnt do anything forcing you to use the mouse</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's because it was developed at a time when you couldn't count on there *being* a mouse hooked to the machine.
[quote]<strong>i disagree on the explorer, but then again ive been using/coding windoze since ver1 so the treeview metaphor works well for me...perhaps it could be added on as a view option in finder...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Urk. Used Windows nearly as long as the Mac, and I have *never* liked tree-view. Column view works much better for me.
tree view is dire, it gets wider with every time thus you get a horizontal scrollbar (worst kind of bar ) col view is really lovely I prefer classic style just icons view though
I find tree view useful for very small systems where you have only about 10 folders at a level and the only go about 3-4 deep. On my system where my data files are routinely 9-10 levels deeps and I want to move them from one folder that deep to another, I find it absolutely useless. Same goes for Photoshop's or Graphic Converter's file browsers.
Unfortunately, Cmd-~ to move through different windows of an individual app isn't standard. Some apps assign each window a different number (Cmd-1 to get to one window, Cmd-2 to get to the second).
Also, I like the dock a lot better since I got multiple monitors and put it in the far left. Still, it would be better as the "Dock and Shelf," as it gets easily cluttered by too many apps. Maybe a separate section for currently running programs and one for shortcuts?
I dunno, OS X certainly has a ways to go before it'll match OS 9's interface.
<strong>Unfortunately, Cmd-~ to move through different windows of an individual app isn't standard. Some apps assign each window a different number (Cmd-1 to get to one window, Cmd-2 to get to the second).</strong><hr></blockquote>Assigning key commands to individual windows is okay, but there should *still* be a window cycling key bound to command-~. Apple's current HI Guidelines states:
[quote] Starting with Mac OS X version 10.2, users can cycle forward or backward through active document windows using Command-~ (tilde) or Shift-Command-~. Cocoa applications automatically inherit this behavior; Carbon developers must handle appropriate menu commands. <hr></blockquote>If an app you use doesn't follow this behavior, the developer isn't following the proper guidelines. Write to your developers! Tell them that you value consistency with Apple guidelines! Without standards like this, all of Mac OS X's interface would be a haphazard mess like Windows or Linux.
XP: Built-in image viewing with next image button. The "icon preview" in OS X is way too much of a hassle to get to. I now have "Icon Preview" on on the desktop, but can get confusing as usually files with previews usually means there is a fat resource fork on it which I must kill before sending via email.
General: Right-click drag files and get options. For example right click drag a file to a folder gives option to move, copy, etc. I know, we have option.
General: Networking on a windows network. SLOW and UNRELIABLE. 99% of any kernel panics I have gotten are SMB and network related. Not just on one network, but direct connections, my corporate lan, etc. Its a fvcking mess.
XP: simultaneos login would be nice, but not necessary overly much.
Comments
1) macromedia software optimised for the os
2) up to date drivers being easily available for 3rd party peripherals - even old ones
3) my bank and isp being totally aware of my OS natively
4) 95% of the world's market
<strong>On a slightly differant note (not file management and the like), I like being able to browse through a folder of images as thumbnails, or watching a movie without a seperate viewer app (quicktime OS integration maybe).</strong><hr></blockquote>
You know both these things can be done in the Finder, right? <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
Use the view settings (Command-J) to turn on image thumbnails and enable columnview browsing (Command-3) to view QT-movies.
<strong>Yes, and if you use the cut command on a file, it should just make it invisible but keep it where it originally was. When you press paste, it moves the file. If you accidentally copy or cut something else, pushing the original out, it should return it to its original spot.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And that's exactly how it works in Windows...
This is *precisely* why Windows is obtuse... it insists on subtly changing behaviour without telling you.
If you want to call it 'Prep Move', 'Prep Copy' and 'Finish Move/Copy' then fine, but don't call it Cut/Copy/Paste if it does something different.
<strong>But completely, utterly and absolutely *UNLIKE* how cut/copy/paste works in *every other part* of MacOS X!</strong><hr></blockquote>
No, a bit unlike how cut works in every other part of OS X. Copy/Paste still works the same.
[quote]<strong>This is *precisely* why Windows is obtuse... it insists on subtly changing behaviour without telling you.</strong><hr></blockquote>
hear hear, agree with you on that one.
[quote]<strong>If you want to call it 'Prep Move', 'Prep Copy' and 'Finish Move/Copy' then fine, but don't call it Cut/Copy/Paste if it does something different.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Would those commands be put in a different menu also? With different keyboard shortcuts that people'd have to learn? All because of a metaphorical inconsistency?
The big problem here is not how the feature works, it's the general knowledge of how it works. Ppl are afraid to use it because of its possible destructive behaviour, or don't want to use it because they're not exactly sure what'll happen when they do (since it is a bit different from regular copypaste).
Asuggestion'd be that the first time a user cuts a file, throw up a info-dialogue (think Internet Explorer "you are entering a secure page") explaining how cut works, and a checkbox to not show it in the future.
Another'd be to create a "pasteboard well" where the cut files'd be moved to while waiting to be pasted.
The truth of the matter is, it IS a useful feature that a lot of people use and that I miss sometimes in OS X. So I think it needs to be implemented. In some form.
alt key modifiers
windoze beats os x handily in the above two areas
i use win2k very heavily & can zip around using
only the keyboard...os x doesnt do as well
explorer ....
file navigation is way better under windows
esp with the treeview
os x's finder has numerous issues including
one incredibly annoying one where you click a file
& it goes into name edit mode
the other annoyance is when you make a new folder
& the focus dosent stay on it
the current finder reminds me of win3.1 filemanager...apple needs to rethink this or atleast work on fixing the bugs.
What do you mean by alt-key modifiers, madmax? I hope you don't mean stuff like alt-5049 for the ? symbol (that's trademark in case safari messes this up [edit: fixed in OW 4.2b]) because it's far too complex for anyone to make real use of. The option characters and character palette beat Windows for special text character.
As for keyboard access, OS X's full keyboard access seems OK to me anyway. It might not be as good as Windows though, for as much as I use Windows, I haven't explored this very much beyond whatever alert is in front of me.
PS: OmniWeb 4.2b's forms editor is too cool!
[silly typo : too, not to]
[ 02-03-2003: Message edited by: BuonRotto ]</p>
& hit the letter thats underlined
eg &Ok &Cancel would have the O & C underlined
on osx when a dialog box popup eg a license agreement you can tab around if you full keyboard
access enabled, but hitting the enter/return key
doesnt do anything forcing you to use the mouse
right now osx is a mixed bag & apple shouldnt hesitate to take the best features from other os's if it will make osx better.
i disagree on the explorer, but then again ive been using/coding windoze since ver1 so the treeview metaphor works well for me...perhaps it could be added on as a view option in finder...
<strong>alt key modifier is when you hold down the alt key
& hit the letter thats underlined
eg &Ok &Cancel would have the O & C underlined
on osx when a dialog box popup eg a license agreement you can tab around if you full keyboard
access enabled, but hitting the enter/return key
doesnt do anything forcing you to use the mouse</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's because it was developed at a time when you couldn't count on there *being* a mouse hooked to the machine.
[quote]<strong>i disagree on the explorer, but then again ive been using/coding windoze since ver1 so the treeview metaphor works well for me...perhaps it could be added on as a view option in finder...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Urk. Used Windows nearly as long as the Mac, and I have *never* liked tree-view. Column view works much better for me.
Also, I like the dock a lot better since I got multiple monitors and put it in the far left. Still, it would be better as the "Dock and Shelf," as it gets easily cluttered by too many apps. Maybe a separate section for currently running programs and one for shortcuts?
I dunno, OS X certainly has a ways to go before it'll match OS 9's interface.
<strong>Unfortunately, Cmd-~ to move through different windows of an individual app isn't standard. Some apps assign each window a different number (Cmd-1 to get to one window, Cmd-2 to get to the second).</strong><hr></blockquote>Assigning key commands to individual windows is okay, but there should *still* be a window cycling key bound to command-~. Apple's current HI Guidelines states:
[quote] Starting with Mac OS X version 10.2, users can cycle forward or backward through active document windows using Command-~ (tilde) or Shift-Command-~. Cocoa applications automatically inherit this behavior; Carbon developers must handle appropriate menu commands. <hr></blockquote>If an app you use doesn't follow this behavior, the developer isn't following the proper guidelines. Write to your developers! Tell them that you value consistency with Apple guidelines! Without standards like this, all of Mac OS X's interface would be a haphazard mess like Windows or Linux.
Can we PLEASE get more informative error messages when I can't mount a network drive?
Getting an error like "Can't mount drive: (-36)" or something like that is what I expect from the old MS-DOS days.
Does Apple actually expect people to know off the top of their head what error -36 means?
<strong>Oh, another request.
Can we PLEASE get more informative error messages when I can't mount a network drive?
Getting an error like "Can't mount drive: (-36)" or something like that is what I expect from the old MS-DOS days.
Does Apple actually expect people to know off the top of their head what error -36 means?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Are Windows dialogs any better?
From what I see, a lot of games for the Mac are "homemade" ports (look at Quake for example)
How is OSX supposed to become a player in the games industry?! <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
XP: Built-in image viewing with next image button. The "icon preview" in OS X is way too much of a hassle to get to. I now have "Icon Preview" on on the desktop, but can get confusing as usually files with previews usually means there is a fat resource fork on it which I must kill before sending via email.
General: Right-click drag files and get options. For example right click drag a file to a folder gives option to move, copy, etc. I know, we have option.
General: Networking on a windows network. SLOW and UNRELIABLE. 99% of any kernel panics I have gotten are SMB and network related. Not just on one network, but direct connections, my corporate lan, etc. Its a fvcking mess.
XP: simultaneos login would be nice, but not necessary overly much.
thats all that blatently comes to mind
<strong>I don't see games being mentioned at all (maybe I missed it) I'd like to see something like DirectX being implemented for gaming!
From what I see, a lot of games for the Mac are "homemade" ports (look at Quake for example)
How is OSX supposed to become a player in the games industry?! <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
There are guides for game producers on how to port DirectX calls to OpenGL calls.
In general, aside from Half Life, the Mac scene for gaming is pretty good.
DirectX is proprietary MS goodness.