Microsoft says Zune HD is real, will get multi-touch

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  • Reply 141 of 180
    shubiduashubidua Posts: 157member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chronster View Post


    When news about Apple products pops up on PC forums, there might be a few slight biased posts, but nothing as extreme as I see around here.



    I don't know which forums you have read, but there are definitely some forums where you can find PC-fanboys trashing apple like it is done the other way here (and even worse ...)



    But I agree that some people here are looking at everything through apples
  • Reply 142 of 180
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 19,223member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chronster View Post


    So let me get this straight... You're now bashing Microsoft for announcing what the next zune will have? Listen buddy, I don't mean to be insulting here, but you're really reaching for reasons to hate Microsoft. Why don't you try thinking a little bit before posting? Here, lets apply your unwavering logic to something other than this geeky crap... CARS! Hey, that new Prius was announced, everyone stop buying hybrids! TOYOTA'S FREEZING THE MARKET! OH MY GOD.



    It's so much easier to go along with the crowd around here, isnt it? Reading this thread has been absolutely hilarious. Bashing this zune for the reasons I've seen shows complete idiotic fanboyism. I saw the same thing with the Pre threads.



    For as long as I live, I'll never understand fanboys. Do you people act so biased over everything? Seriously, please someone answer me this question! Do you eat nectarines and then bash prunes and act as though your decision to go with the nectarine instead of the prune makes you highly intelligent? What about fast food? Do you follow Chik-fil-a news and then blow shit all over your pants when McDonalds announces a new sandwich? Perhaps you only buy a single brand of car?



    All I can say is, nowhere else on the internet have I seen such lunacy. When news about Apple products pops up on PC forums, there might be a few slight biased posts, but nothing as extreme as I see around here. For the most part, PC geeks are technology geeks, while Mac "geeks" are just ignorant people who spent money on something and then convinced themselves they could do no wrong ever because of that purchase decision.



    I digress. This thing isn't even out yet and everyone's already flipping their lid over it. Why don't you people wait until a product is out before writing it off as something crappy because Apple didn't make it.



    Actually, a lot of people are bashing Microsoft for the simple reason that they seem to be able to little more than trot out me-too products.... look at what the various forums are saying with respect to their proposed new search engine, for example (Kumo or Bing or whatever it's called).



    The larger issue is, people are getting increasingly frustrated by an American tech giant ($180B in mkt cap) that seems to be stuck in a rut, and seems to have become incapable of pushing the innovation envelope.



    Plus, I think -- although I don't personally have an issue -- it may have something to do with Steve Ballmer too.
  • Reply 143 of 180
    Sink as much money as you can into it MS, please!



    While your at it sink billions into XBox and Search too!
  • Reply 144 of 180
    chronsterchronster Posts: 1,894member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by shubidua View Post


    I don't know which forums you have read, but there are definitely some forums where you can find PC-fanboys trashing apple like it is done the other way here (and even worse ...)



    But I agree that some people here are looking at everything through apples



    I definitely see it every once in a while, but there tend to be a lot more people there like me who set them straight. Its not often I see an entire thread of people acting that way. I feel like when I do see it, it's usually a younger crowd trying to say things they think everyone will agree with.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    Actually, a lot of people are bashing Microsoft for the simple reason that they seem to be able to little more than trot out me-too products.... look at what the various forums are saying with respect to their proposed new search engine, for example (Kumo or Bing or whatever it's called).



    The larger issue is, people are getting increasingly frustrated by an American tech giant ($180B in mkt cap) that seems to be stuck in a rut, and seems to have become incapable of pushing the innovation envelope.



    Plus, I think -- although I don't personally have an issue -- it may have something to do with Steve Ballmer too.



    Steve Ballmer doesn't exactly help their image. He looks like such an enormous ass. I bet he eats kittens.



    I understand why people would bash Microsoft in general. What I don't understand is why they bash every single thing they do. It doesn't matter what it is.



    A product like this is COOL. Oled screen, hd video out, hd radio? That's pretty cool technology. Instead of saying, "Yeah they've got a decent product there" I see people ignoring the product, and instead focusing on who made it. With the Pre discussions I see people saying it's not as good as an iphone before anyone even has one.



    Like I said, PC geeks tend to be interested in technology no matter who makes it while Apple geeks don't really care about anything unless Apple is behind it.
  • Reply 145 of 180
    gtl215gtl215 Posts: 242member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    The larger issue is, people are getting increasingly frustrated by an American tech giant ($180B in mkt cap) that seems to be stuck in a rut, and seems to have become incapable of pushing the innovation envelope.

    .



    That's sort of where I'm coming from too. I don't necessarily "care" that microsoft is so inept; its more that i take pleasure in watching them bleed slowly while other companies beat them to EVERY punch. What Apple and Google have done to Microsoft in the last 10 years is a disgrace (to microsoft) MS has been utterly asleep at the wheel on every front. I switched to Mac 4 years ago and have been qutie happy. I've convinced some other people to switch as well, and they've ALL been quite satisfied. Maybe i'm a jerk for enjoying Microsoft suffer, but the fact of the matter is they really do make third-rate products. The xbox is the exception. The zune is decent, but it's too little too late.



    The ZuneHD genuinely looks to be a solid device. However it will always be the #1 second-banana. In other words, it will be the leading non-apple PMP, which is perfectly fine (i'd rather be #2 than #3, or 4 or 5, etc). Real success for the Zune HD hinges entirely on Xbox integration, which we'll see at E3 next week. If they can make it compelling enough for Xbox owners (MS's largest installed base outside of windows) then I can definitely see a lot of Xbox owners opting for the ZHD. I'm looking forward to seeing what develops.
  • Reply 146 of 180
    gtl215gtl215 Posts: 242member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chronster View Post


    With the Pre discussions I see people saying it's not as good as an iphone before anyone even has one.



    Plenty of Pre fans tout the Pre as an Iphone killer, so let's not assume it's all iPhone lovers who are always on the offensive.
  • Reply 147 of 180
    alfiejralfiejr Posts: 1,524member
    The new Zune HD is upon us. well, not quite - next fall actually. but The Hype Starts Now! Zune vs. Touch! Fight!



    could well be the most bogus MS product ever:



    - not really video HD display or anything close. has nothing special 480x272 screen resolution (vs. the 2008 touch 480x320 which may be upgraded this fall with the 2009 model). oh! but it outputs 720p to a TV. big deal. the 2009 Touch will likely do the same.



    - oh, they mean HD radio! but you can already get much more and better HD web radio on the Touch today from stations all around the world (OTA radio sucks nowadays thanks to the domination of the media chain playlist stations almost everywhere).



    - XBox integration! gee, that's right up there with the Touch + iTunes ecosystem - NOT.



    - No Apps!! the single biggest reason for the Touch's success is iPhone apps. but the Zune HD still can't run WinMobile apps or even its own version. Pathetic.



    - oh, and good chance the 2009 Touch will add GPS location services this fall - another killer feature - and camera? whereas the Zune HD will offer - zilch.



    That's it - it's not really the new Zune HD, it's the new Zilch HD!
  • Reply 148 of 180
    chronsterchronster Posts: 1,894member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GTL215 View Post


    That's sort of where I'm coming from too. I don't necessarily "care" that microsoft is so inept; its more that i take pleasure in watching them bleed slowly while other companies beat them to EVERY punch. What Apple and Google have done to Microsoft in the last 10 years is a disgrace (to microsoft) MS has been utterly asleep at the wheel on every front. I switched to Mac 4 years ago and have been qutie happy. I've convinced some other people to switch as well, and they've ALL been quite satisfied. Maybe i'm a jerk for enjoying Microsoft suffer, but the fact of the matter is they really do make third-rate products. The xbox is the exception. The zune is decent, but it's too little too late.



    The ZuneHD genuinely looks to be a solid device. However it will always be the #1 second-banana. In other words, it will be the leading non-apple PMP, which is perfectly fine (i'd rather be #2 than #3, or 4 or 5, etc). Real success for the Zune HD hinges entirely on Xbox integration, which we'll see at E3 next week. If they can make it compelling enough for Xbox owners (MS's largest installed base outside of windows) then I can definitely see a lot of Xbox owners opting for the ZHD. I'm looking forward to seeing what develops.



    This is what I like to read. Well thought out posts that make sense.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GTL215 View Post


    Plenty of Pre fans tout the Pre as an Iphone killer, so let's not assume it's all iPhone lovers who are always on the offensive.



    I think the reasoning for that is because they view Palm as the underdog now. The pre does have some very nice features, but I'm sick of the argument from both ends when nobody even owns one of the two phones in question. When people do the opposite to what I see here, and start bashing the iphone saying the Pre is clearly better, I always have to ask them "So you like your Pre then" with the inevitable reply "I don't own a Pre" followed by my response "Talk when you do." I'm just a geek with too much time on my hands and I read what everyone says. Have you ever actually read what everyone says? The majority of people are stoopid!



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post


    The new Zune HD is upon us. well, not quite - next fall actually. but The Hype Starts Now! Zune vs. Touch! Fight!



    could well be the most bogus MS product ever:



    - not really video HD display or anything close. has nothing special 480x272 screen resolution (vs. the 2008 touch 480x320 which may be upgraded this fall with the 2009 model). oh! but it outputs 720p to a TV. big deal. the 2009 Touch will likely do the same.



    I read 1080p output. Was I wrong? Only 720p? I guess it's a start. You're doing what I spoke about above though. You're bashing this product, then comparing it to a product not even announced by Apple.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post


    - oh, they mean HD radio! but you can already get much more and better HD web radio on the Touch today from stations all around the world (OTA radio sucks nowadays thanks to the domination of the media chain playlist stations almost everywhere).



    The ipod touch can get internet radio. Guess what? This will too. The touch won't get hd radio, which isn't reliant on an internet connection. See any pro's on the zune side yet?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post


    - XBox integration! gee, that's right up there with the Touch + iTunes ecosystem - NOT.



    Hey Wayne. Yes Garth? This guy can see the future man, and it's FREAKING ME OUT.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post




    - No Apps!! the single biggest reason for the Touch's success is iPhone apps. but the Zune HD still can't run WinMobile apps or even its own version. Pathetic.



    The single biggest reason for the failure of this post is the fact that there are apps. If this is built on the Windows CE core (essentially windows mobile) then there will be a whole plethora of free apps, a lot of which can do the exact same thing iphone/touch apps can do, but most of the time for free.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post




    - oh, and good chance the 2009 Touch will add GPS location services this fall - another killer feature - and camera? whereas the Zune HD will offer - zilch.



    That's it - it's not really the new Zune HD, it's the new Zilch HD!



    Again, speculation doesn't amount to anything. You know what? Why don't you just start saying things like "There's a good chance the 2009 Touch will allow people to fly around in the sky like birds." The Zune will NEVER do this.



    It's the Zilch HD for you because it's obvious you'll be spending zilch on it
  • Reply 149 of 180
    jb85jb85 Posts: 33member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hattig View Post


    It can, it just doesn't have a HD display - and neither does Apple's offerings.



    I expect that it will be using an NVIDIA Tegra processor.



    It will be interesting to see what display output options the new iPhone and iPod touch have in June/July - surely it is time for a 720p output? I hope that the dock connector can accomodate these.



    I think the new Apple devices will also use an OLED screen, so that isn't a unique selling point.



    And digital radio - is that DAB? Otherwise there's a collective yawn from Europe, where this device will be marketed for the first time ever.



    "As suggested by the name, HD content will play an important part in the new Zune, though not as elaborately as alluded to in rumors. HD video will require a new dock and can't be played on the Zune itself."



    what i was saying is that at least if i buy an HD movie or tv show on itunes i can still play it on my iphone. and there is a difference between SD and HD on my iphone. even if you say it isn't TRUE HD it is still better than the SD content on itunes. i am happy with that.
  • Reply 150 of 180
    chronsterchronster Posts: 1,894member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jb85 View Post


    "As suggested by the name, HD content will play an important part in the new Zune, though not as elaborately as alluded to in rumors. HD video will require a new dock and can't be played on the Zune itself."



    what i was saying is that at least if i buy an HD movie or tv show on itunes i can still play it on my iphone. and there is a difference between SD and HD on my iphone. even if you say it isn't TRUE HD it is still better than the SD content on itunes. i am happy with that.



    So they are saying you can't view the shrunk down version of the video or are they saying the obvious, which is you won't see true 1080p after the video is shrunk down?
  • Reply 151 of 180
    jb85jb85 Posts: 33member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bigpics View Post


    Uhhhh.... ...just for the record, you don't think you're watching HD content on your iPhone's 480x320 screen do you? As by all definitions of HD, that ain't happening.



    Also, I'm too lazy to look it up today, but there are devices/programs which squish files or use squished files from a large hard drive to better fit when downloaded onto a device which can't use all their resolution. Dunno (make that don't remember) where the squishing happens in the iDevice ecosystem (permanent/on the fly/during download/at playback), nor whether HD source material available in iPod readable formats actually looks better than SD, but in neither case are you watching HD, and theoretically SD downloads should be delivering every pixel you can see on your iPhone.



    i just posted on the third page about how i can tell a difference between SD and HD when i buy them from itunes and put them on my iphone. even if it isn't "true" HD there is still a difference. from what the article says, you can only watch HD content if the ZUNE "HD" is plugged into a dock. obviously we wont know yet if it can do what the ipod does and still be able to play the "HD" movie but way scaled down. but from what I took from the article you wont be able to play an HD movie you downloaded from the marketplace at all on the device. that is what i was talking about. at least i can see a difference between the HD and SD versions of this season of southpark. and i bought them all in HD and SD as an experiment to see if there was actual HD. i know there isn't but the picture is definitely improved.
  • Reply 152 of 180
    jb85jb85 Posts: 33member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chronster View Post


    So let me get this straight... You're now bashing Microsoft for announcing what the next zune will have? Listen buddy, I don't mean to be insulting here, but you're really reaching for reasons to hate Microsoft. Why don't you try thinking a little bit before posting? Here, lets apply your unwavering logic to something other than this geeky crap... CARS! Hey, that new Prius was announced, everyone stop buying hybrids! TOYOTA'S FREEZING THE MARKET! OH MY GOD.



    It's so much easier to go along with the crowd around here, isnt it? Reading this thread has been absolutely hilarious. Bashing this zune for the reasons I've seen shows complete idiotic fanboyism. I saw the same thing with the Pre threads.



    For as long as I live, I'll never understand fanboys. Do you people act so biased over everything? Seriously, please someone answer me this question! Do you eat nectarines and then bash prunes and act as though your decision to go with the nectarine instead of the prune makes you highly intelligent? What about fast food? Do you follow Chik-fil-a news and then blow shit all over your pants when McDonalds announces a new sandwich? Perhaps you only buy a single brand of car?



    All I can say is, nowhere else on the internet have I seen such lunacy. When news about Apple products pops up on PC forums, there might be a few slight biased posts, but nothing as extreme as I see around here. For the most part, PC geeks are technology geeks, while Mac "geeks" are just ignorant people who spent money on something and then convinced themselves they could do no wrong ever because of that purchase decision.



    I digress. This thing isn't even out yet and everyone's already flipping their lid over it. Why don't you people wait until a product is out before writing it off as something crappy because Apple didn't make it.



    well if you PC geeks are so innocent go over to ign and look at what you guys are saying about the ipod and apple products. i see no difference between PC fanboys and apple fanboys. i would rather pick a side than sit on the fence. you remind me of the kid who sits on a fence to see which side wins and then you want to join the winner when its all over.
  • Reply 153 of 180
    gtl215gtl215 Posts: 242member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jb85 View Post


    well if you PC geeks are so innocent go over to ign and look at what you guys are saying about the ipod and apple products. i see no difference between PC fanboys and apple fanboys. i would rather pick a side than sit on the fence. you remind me of the kid who sits on a fence to see which side wins and then you want to join the winner when its all over.





    IGN is for gamers, who are CLEARLY (and understandably) pro-windows. They live and breathe apple-hate.
  • Reply 154 of 180
    gqbgqb Posts: 1,934member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post


    The new Zune HD is upon us. well, not quite - next fall actually. but The Hype Starts Now! Zune vs. Touch! Fight!



    could well be the most bogus MS product ever:



    - not really video HD display or anything close. has nothing special 480x272 screen resolution (vs. the 2008 touch 480x320 which may be upgraded this fall with the 2009 model). oh! but it outputs 720p to a TV. big deal. the 2009 Touch will likely do the same.



    - oh, they mean HD radio! but you can already get much more and better HD web radio on the Touch today from stations all around the world (OTA radio sucks nowadays thanks to the domination of the media chain playlist stations almost everywhere).



    - XBox integration! gee, that's right up there with the Touch + iTunes ecosystem - NOT.



    - No Apps!! the single biggest reason for the Touch's success is iPhone apps. but the Zune HD still can't run WinMobile apps or even its own version. Pathetic.



    - oh, and good chance the 2009 Touch will add GPS location services this fall - another killer feature - and camera? whereas the Zune HD will offer - zilch.



    That's it - it's not really the new Zune HD, it's the new Zilch HD!



    Oh there will be apps all right. Thousands upon thousands of those little gems that have that have turned the internet into the cesspool of viruses that it is. Microsoft's tools make that really easy... even write them in VB.

    Of course they'll have the advantage of not having that pesky Apple Store approval process, so you'll be able to download your favorite threat vector without interference no doubt.



    Can't wait.
  • Reply 155 of 180
    jb85jb85 Posts: 33member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jb85 View Post


    well if you PC geeks are so innocent go over to ign and look at what you guys are saying about the ipod and apple products. i see no difference between PC fanboys and apple fanboys. i would rather pick a side than sit on the fence. you remind me of the kid who sits on a fence to see which side wins and then you want to join the winner when its all over.



    ok i take some of that back chronster. however, i have given microsoft a chance in the past. that is all my parents bought. a few years ago i thought i was getting a good deal with a dell. i learned my lesson, i bought a powerbook g4. i will never go back to M$ for another computer. and i had even bought a zune just to give it a try. it broke on me. it felt very flimsy and it wasn't built very well. so i gave them a chance and they failed me yet again. so i am justified in saying that i don't like M$. but i wont bash their fanboys and say they are dumb for liking them. but i have seen way worse on other sites than AI. hell, go look at macworld.
  • Reply 156 of 180
    jb85jb85 Posts: 33member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GTL215 View Post


    IGN is for gamers, who are CLEARLY (and understandably) pro-windows. They live and breathe apple-hate.



    i look at IGN daily and i love apple. but your right, the majority there do hate apple.
  • Reply 157 of 180
    chronsterchronster Posts: 1,894member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jb85 View Post


    ok i take some of that back chronster. however, i have given microsoft a chance in the past. that is all my parents bought. a few years ago i thought i was getting a good deal with a dell. i learned my lesson, i bought a powerbook g4. i will never go back to M$ for another computer. and i had even bought a zune just to give it a try. it broke on me. it felt very flimsy and it wasn't built very well. so i gave them a chance and they failed me yet again. so i am justified in saying that i don't like M$. but i wont bash their fanboys and say they are dumb for liking them. but i have seen way worse on other sites than AI. hell, go look at macworld.



    lol your comment about me sitting on the sidelines and taking the side of the winner made me giggle. I didn't mean to come off as a pc fanboy. I'm a technology fanboy, which can encompass many different things. I get just as excited about Apple's announcements as I do with Asus' or Microsoft's or Samsung's or Ford's or Maytag's (ok maybe not maytag but you catch my drift.)



    When it comes to Dell, I really don't know what I can say except STAY AWAY lol. Dell is getting a little better, but they used to be reaaaally bad. Proprietary motherboards, memory and power supplies disgusted me. If you're looking for a good quality system where you get your money's worth, the only route (in my mind) is to build it yourself. Putting together a computer really isn't that hard at all. When you read up on each individual part, you find what's cheap, what's practical, and what's expensive and generally reserved for enthusiasts.



    Anyways, I ramble easily so I'll shut up now.
  • Reply 158 of 180
    chronsterchronster Posts: 1,894member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jb85 View Post


    i look at IGN daily and i love apple. but your right, the majority there do hate apple.



    I don't even read comments at IGN, but I do play plenty of online games on my PC. Anytime I hear people bash Apple for whatever reason, I ask what it is they don't like about their Apple product and almost every time it's a response like "I don't have one, never have, and never will! I'll never give them money!"



    It's just people repeating what someone else said trying to say stuff they think people will respond positively about, all so they can feel like part of a group of people who think the same (and usually falling under the legal driving age.)
  • Reply 159 of 180
    madivanmadivan Posts: 45member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ThinkTouch View Post


    I think its success will depend how much they can make the device another PSP or DS but linked to games with the XBox. It needs to differentiate itself from the Ipod touch.



    That's a different device which MS will be announcing any day now ... Google it.
  • Reply 160 of 180
    alfiejralfiejr Posts: 1,524member
    anyone seriously think HD radio is more important than apps??



    if the Zilch HD had apps to offer, MS would be talking big about them now you can be sure. hype is their stock and trade. they're not. it don't. there are hacks to run some basic apps on the Zune now, but nothing anywhere near the same universe of what the 2008 Touch can do. Thanks to MS' great engineering, the Win CE Zune cannot run WinMobile apps, old or new, despite the common OS ancestry.



    (btw, when i can't get wifi web radio - i like AOL's app which includes song info like HD radio and local news stations, but there are other services like Pandora too - i just play my own lists, like everyone else. local OTA radio music is garbage these days for anyone over 14 years old or who doesn't want to hear the same "classics" from whatever decade over and over and over.)



    as to the 2009 Touch, it is very reasonable to anticipate significant upgrades already proven in the current iPhone, since they do share the same OS. which will go to 3.0 in a few week with all the new app capabilities already announced, none of which the Zilch can match. 720p file support for the upcoming 2009 iPhone is widely anticipated, we'll see in two weeks. adding the iPhone's GPS and upcoming compass to the Touch makes total sense. so would a camera. hardly a wild guess.



    oh, and if you want to watch TV instead of just hear HD radio, can the Zilch HD do that? un-uh. but my Touch's SlingPlayer Mobile sure does - today.



    sorry guys, the Zilch HD is already an obsolete dud months before it even goes on sale.
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