The 13" macbook is now twice as slow as the comparable sony 13" SR. Before it was considerably faster.
Therefore this upgrade is at best hardly noticable, at worst making the macbook subpar.
So more stuff at a lower price equals a slower machine? That would mean that an Altair is a very fast machine indeed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel
So, does this mean the MacBook line is about to expand with cheaper systems now that the 13" went pro?
I?d think that a 15? MB made of plastic would work out well now that 13? aluminium has gone Pro, as rumoured and predicted, but now I think that they won?t go that route seeing as how they gave the entry level 15? MBP a 9400M.
I just checked all the tech stats on the new line of macbook pros and am seriously confused. There is not a single model, from the 13" to the 17", that has more than one firewire port. This means the basic requirements of video editing do not exist in apples new notebooks. The creators of final cut pro have cut off the notebooks ability to log, capture and edit. How is this possible? I am using a five year old powerbook g4 that is more capable than the brand new, top of the line 17" macbook pro.
lol You've never heard of daisy chaining? You are aware old mac notebooks even while having 2 ports only had 1 bus right? That means you were effectively daisy chaining right on the machine! You can indeed plug the drive into the computer and the camera/deck into the extra port on the drive - this is something I've done too many times to count. The only computers apple makes with multiple buses have been the Mac Pros.
We don't all have a gaming fetish like you. For what I do, I'll gladly take the other improvements over faster video card.
I’m half interested in the 15” MBP now that it has the 9400M, but seeing as how the display in the 13” has been greatly improved I may just stick with that size for my next purchase. I do nothing that requires a larger screen so i see no need to pay for it or have my battery be used quicker because of it.
Crazy question, but how loud is the multi-touch click? I have an old G4 iBook that I am replacing with one of these new MBP's and the button click keeps my wife up on night it is so loud! I have tried the new regular MB, and that click is VERY quite, is the MBP like this? Thanks!
And, all those who are exulting in this forum about these changes must be uninformed morons?
That's more kind and diplomatic than how I would put it.
The same people defended the lack of firewire on the 13" aluminum laptops. The same ones said over and over again that I don't need an SD card slot. Those same people are STILL defending glossy screens.
So more stuff at a lower price equals a slower machine? That would mean that an Altair is a very fast machine indeed.
Im just saying that the old Macbook 13" with the 9400M was one of the most powerful 13" laptops out there. It outperformed the Sony SR, the Sony Z and the Lenovo models.
Now the Sony SR is twice as fast as the macbook. (because of the 4570)
It is just a fact. The Macbook 13" went from being Top-of-the-line to being half as fast.
And at the same time they added the "pro" name.
This is not for gaming only, but for "pro" 3D applications, and i guess all the Open CL stuff.
Did a single published rumor-monger have a clue about this release? Apple secrecy is NOT dead!
Meanwhile, this is the machine I would've bought a year ago. But now that I've made the decision that mobile computers will meet all my needs, and need a new primary, I'll probably go 15" since it's got all the updates here.
On the other hand, the little guy will support big high-res monitors and is a) cheaper and b) less of a handful to lug. Decisions, decisions.
And as long as we're making claims about what we posted, I'll note that Apple listened to me (as if ) and realized that more than "size matters" when it comes to making something "pro." Leaving, sez me, one more small gap in Apple's "full-size notebook" lines, i.e., a less expensive 15" model. But won't hold my breath, as there would be some cannabalism of bigger sales, and we all know how the big A feels about that.....
(There is also of course that waiting to be filled by something amazing chasm betwixt the iPhone/Touch and the 13"ers..... ....but plenty of great announcements today, methinks.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiles77
Bravo, as well, Apple, on adding the backlit keyboard to the low-end model.
Wow!!!
Check!
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud
Haha. Firewire is back - just as I asked for and predicted.
Finally I can buy one.
Check! (and as I'd hoped)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHKOsta
It's funny - the distinction that I really drew with the Pro line was that there were TWO graphics cards. Even if you don't run graphics-intensive software, having the discrete card would have tremendous implications for OpenCL, right? Or am I missing something?
Is he missing something?? Inquiring minds want to know
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpellino
Just like I said.
And some of you (you know who you are) had a dozen reasons FW was on its way out never to return.
Would you like that crow steamed, country-fried or fricasseed?
I think is a case of serious blowback being listened to (or battery case space savings or whatever). But while many here have said it's FW400 that's dead, do note that your FW400 devices will work just fine.
Quote:
MS is dead!
Quote:
Originally Posted by brlawyer
I have been saying this for at least 3 years...it's my trademark, so don't worry...and yes, I believe they are dying a slow death.
Whether you love or hate MS, no way. First, MS is in many markets where Apple's presence is zero to negligible. For one, Apple is at least a decade away from being a force in enterprise IT, and that's if they thought they could be and began a major push. And Enterprise is a huge market.
Second, even if SL's a home run (and it appears to be at least a triple), Win 7 only has to be a double for Windows to keep 90% of its current market share, and according to Mac pundits I respect, while it's still Windows, it is. Especially in its historically most vulnerable areas of security and stability.
And in this economy, and with the paradigm shift to netbooks, MS may lose more installs to Android and Linux on these small machines, than to Apple, which already rules the premium PC roost.
Third, MS is actually showing signs of starting to "get it" in certain areas. I gave Bing a try last week, and after three searches, not only added it to Firefox, but made it my default. (Of course, they're still MS, and have totally blown it with the starter version of Win 7 - which won't even let you customize your desktop, opting instead to force you to carry around an advertisement for the phone carrier who's subsidizing your new netbook.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by zanshin
Oh, blow it out your ar'se...
I'm one of those pedants who hates bad grammar and punctuation in "professional journalism," but what bothered me more about the article is that they obviously got the copy from Apple and didn't edit out the slavish ad-style copy, the breathless proclamation that the Air weighs "only three pounds," etc.
Quoting marketing materials is not journalism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hattig
maybe they helped in pushing Apple to make the decision to cut back on margins (or maybe they sorted out how to make the unibodies cheaper now they have a lot of experience).
Prices on tech products can be lowered via "production experience" - i.e., it cost a few mega bucks to tool up the unibody production lines, and once that cost's been recovered (amortized), there's room to cut without affecting margins.
As another poster noted, many here don't grasp the mechanics of why and how businesses make actual profits. But then, Al (the world will end in 10 years, said more than 10 years ago, then said again) Gore is on Apple's board, and he doesn't get it either (LoL).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hattig
It wasn't about the lack of EC or discrete graphics.
I'm a 20+ year heavy PC user and I have yet to see, let alone need an EC peripheral. I guess a doo-dad to make your notebook run on cell networks would be one, but otherwise I don't have any idea who really needs this port.
Quote:
Originally Posted by probably
Anyone notice the 13" Pro doesn't have a dedicated line-in?
Anyone notice the 13" Pro doesn't have a dedicated line-in?
(To make room for FireWire I suppose)
In the current unibody notebooks the headphone and mic are one so you can use your Apple headphones with them. Even the controls work on the headphones. But they left the mic as separate, too.
I guess this gives room for the FW800 port, but with a screwed-on bottom they had more room to maneuver. I guess we?ll have to wait and see the iFixit breakdown.
These arguments just get more and more absurd. The only way what you say makes any sense is if the work being done doesn't require the user to be mobile. Pro = a hell of a lot more than sitting in one place editing video with Final Cut Pro.
No, it is not anything more than just that. A professional CANNOT cut any corners in his work. He or she must bring a flawless product to the market in color's that look professional on 5 or 6 differant kinds of media. And all the colors have to look exactly the same on all the possible media's.
The lines are blurring between the very high end photoshop/finalcut pro kind of user, to people like me who burn some movie's, watch some hulu and plays cod4.
If you are a PRO and you can get away with using a $300 net-book, fine.
A pro uses their own CTR monitor for true color. And they would never touch a glossy anything ever.
Understand yet? All you high end users lucked out all these years using mac's made for the Masses'. The PRO market is less than one percent. However loud you scream, the day's of apple catering to you is over.
Nice update, might have to go for a 13" Pro for school this fall.
My only big question is the built in battery, I'm concerned about having to pay an additional service fee plus the cost of a battery to get it replaced, unless you want to 'throw out' you laptop every few years when the battery starts to loose it's charge capacity. Incidentally it also means more profits for Apple and the other manufacturers who are going to this battery, since it prevents 3rd parties from making replacement batteries to be installed by the user or providing backup batteries for photographers and others who work in remote locations where power to recharge might not be available.
That's more kind and diplomatic than how I would put it.
The same people defended the lack of firewire on the 13" aluminum laptops. The same ones said over and over again that I don't need an SD card slot. Those same people are STILL defending glossy screens.
Movie's look fantastic on a glossy screen. Everything looks better with a glossy screen .And i love the return of the fire wire.
I?m half interested in the 15? MBP now that it has the 9400M, but seeing as how the display in the 13? has been greatly improved I may just stick with that size for my next purchase. I do nothing that requires that so i see no need to pay for it or have my battery be used quicker because of it.
Nice update, might have to go for a 13" Pro for school this fall.
My only big question is the built in battery, I'm concerned about having to pay an additional service fee plus the cost of a battery to get it replaced, unless you want to 'throw out' you laptop every few years when the battery starts to loose it's charge capacity. Incidentally it also means more profits for Apple and the other manufacturers who are going to this battery, since it prevents 3rd parties from making replacement batteries to be installed by the user or providing backup batteries for photographers and others who work in remote locations where power to recharge might not be available.
To change the battery is the same work it would take to upgrade the RAM. Just remove the bottom cover. But the presentation noted that the battery is meant to have a longer lifespan than other batteries. By the time it dies on you chances are you won?t even own it anymore and higher density batteries will probably be out for less money. I don?t know why you think 3rd-parties can?t make a replacement battery. I doubt it soldered in.
Seriously, it's bad enough when the retarded teenagers on these boards do it, but now the AI staff is randomly inserting apostrophes into words?
The apostrophe is appropriate for showing possession. Its doesn't need it but you add 's to show possession and s' when showing possession for more than one.
In this case it is a toss-up. Macbook Air's is fine and, technically, Macbook Airs' is okay too.
I am fine with all of the new changes except one - the video cards. I would have much preferred Apple to have included the 9400/9600 graphics chips to all the systems. A 15 incher without the 9600 seems much less useful than a 13 incher with the 9600 chip.
The apostrophe is appropriate for showing possession. Its doesn't need it but you add 's to show possession and s' when showing possession for more than one.
In this case it is a toss-up. Macbook Air's is fine and, technically, Macbook Airs' is okay too.
the original quote he was addressing was :
"MacBook Air's were also updated with cheaper pricing"
The apostrophe here is wrong...Plural of MacBook Air is MacBook Airs.
"MacBook Air's were also updated with cheaper pricing"
The apostrophe here is wrong...Plural of MacBook Air is MacBook Airs.
I wonder why they thought they needed to use the plural anyway. They didn't say MacBookPros. If they were to say cheaper MacBook Air, don't you think most people would assume all of them would be cheaper from now on?
Now the Sony SR is twice as fast as the macbook. (because of the 4570)
It is just a fact. The Macbook 13" went from being Top-of-the-line to being half as fast.
No, no, you have it backward. The MBP is twice as fast as the Sony. See, 4570 x 2 = 9140. The MBP has a 9400M. The M stands for "More". So, the MBP is more than twice as fast as the Sony. It is just a fact.
Comments
The 13" macbook is now twice as slow as the comparable sony 13" SR. Before it was considerably faster.
Therefore this upgrade is at best hardly noticable, at worst making the macbook subpar.
So more stuff at a lower price equals a slower machine? That would mean that an Altair is a very fast machine indeed.
So, does this mean the MacBook line is about to expand with cheaper systems now that the 13" went pro?
I?d think that a 15? MB made of plastic would work out well now that 13? aluminium has gone Pro, as rumoured and predicted, but now I think that they won?t go that route seeing as how they gave the entry level 15? MBP a 9400M.
A new graphics card like a 4570 or similar would have doubled the speed. Thats a fact.
We don't all have a gaming fetish like you. For what I do, I'll gladly take the other improvements over faster video card.
I just checked all the tech stats on the new line of macbook pros and am seriously confused. There is not a single model, from the 13" to the 17", that has more than one firewire port. This means the basic requirements of video editing do not exist in apples new notebooks. The creators of final cut pro have cut off the notebooks ability to log, capture and edit. How is this possible? I am using a five year old powerbook g4 that is more capable than the brand new, top of the line 17" macbook pro.
lol You've never heard of daisy chaining? You are aware old mac notebooks even while having 2 ports only had 1 bus right? That means you were effectively daisy chaining right on the machine! You can indeed plug the drive into the computer and the camera/deck into the extra port on the drive - this is something I've done too many times to count. The only computers apple makes with multiple buses have been the Mac Pros.
We don't all have a gaming fetish like you. For what I do, I'll gladly take the other improvements over faster video card.
I’m half interested in the 15” MBP now that it has the 9400M, but seeing as how the display in the 13” has been greatly improved I may just stick with that size for my next purchase. I do nothing that requires a larger screen so i see no need to pay for it or have my battery be used quicker because of it.
And, all those who are exulting in this forum about these changes must be uninformed morons?
That's more kind and diplomatic than how I would put it.
The same people defended the lack of firewire on the 13" aluminum laptops. The same ones said over and over again that I don't need an SD card slot. Those same people are STILL defending glossy screens.
Kudos to Apple this time round.
So more stuff at a lower price equals a slower machine? That would mean that an Altair is a very fast machine indeed.
Im just saying that the old Macbook 13" with the 9400M was one of the most powerful 13" laptops out there. It outperformed the Sony SR, the Sony Z and the Lenovo models.
Now the Sony SR is twice as fast as the macbook. (because of the 4570)
It is just a fact. The Macbook 13" went from being Top-of-the-line to being half as fast.
And at the same time they added the "pro" name.
This is not for gaming only, but for "pro" 3D applications, and i guess all the Open CL stuff.
Meanwhile, this is the machine I would've bought a year ago. But now that I've made the decision that mobile computers will meet all my needs, and need a new primary, I'll probably go 15" since it's got all the updates here.
On the other hand, the little guy will support big high-res monitors and is a) cheaper and b) less of a handful to lug. Decisions, decisions.
And as long as we're making claims about what we posted, I'll note that Apple listened to me (as if
(There is also of course that waiting to be filled by something amazing chasm betwixt the iPhone/Touch and the 13"ers..... ....but plenty of great announcements today, methinks.)
Bravo, as well, Apple, on adding the backlit keyboard to the low-end model.
Wow!!!
Check!
Haha. Firewire is back - just as I asked for and predicted.
Finally I can buy one.
Check! (and as I'd hoped)
It's funny - the distinction that I really drew with the Pro line was that there were TWO graphics cards. Even if you don't run graphics-intensive software, having the discrete card would have tremendous implications for OpenCL, right? Or am I missing something?
Is he missing something?? Inquiring minds want to know
Just like I said.
And some of you (you know who you are) had a dozen reasons FW was on its way out never to return.
Would you like that crow steamed, country-fried or fricasseed?
I think is a case of serious blowback being listened to (or battery case space savings or whatever). But while many here have said it's FW400 that's dead, do note that your FW400 devices will work just fine.
MS is dead!
I have been saying this for at least 3 years...it's my trademark, so don't worry...and yes, I believe they are dying a slow death.
Whether you love or hate MS, no way. First, MS is in many markets where Apple's presence is zero to negligible. For one, Apple is at least a decade away from being a force in enterprise IT, and that's if they thought they could be and began a major push. And Enterprise is a huge market.
Second, even if SL's a home run (and it appears to be at least a triple), Win 7 only has to be a double for Windows to keep 90% of its current market share, and according to Mac pundits I respect, while it's still Windows, it is. Especially in its historically most vulnerable areas of security and stability.
And in this economy, and with the paradigm shift to netbooks, MS may lose more installs to Android and Linux on these small machines, than to Apple, which already rules the premium PC roost.
Third, MS is actually showing signs of starting to "get it" in certain areas. I gave Bing a try last week, and after three searches, not only added it to Firefox, but made it my default. (Of course, they're still MS, and have totally blown it with the starter version of Win 7 - which won't even let you customize your desktop, opting instead to force you to carry around an advertisement for the phone carrier who's subsidizing your new netbook.)
Oh, blow it out your ar'se...
I'm one of those pedants who hates bad grammar and punctuation in "professional journalism," but what bothered me more about the article is that they obviously got the copy from Apple and didn't edit out the slavish ad-style copy, the breathless proclamation that the Air weighs "only three pounds," etc.
Quoting marketing materials is not journalism.
maybe they helped in pushing Apple to make the decision to cut back on margins (or maybe they sorted out how to make the unibodies cheaper now they have a lot of experience).
Prices on tech products can be lowered via "production experience" - i.e., it cost a few mega bucks to tool up the unibody production lines, and once that cost's been recovered (amortized), there's room to cut without affecting margins.
As another poster noted, many here don't grasp the mechanics of why and how businesses make actual profits. But then, Al (the world will end in 10 years, said more than 10 years ago, then said again) Gore is on Apple's board, and he doesn't get it either (LoL).
It wasn't about the lack of EC or discrete graphics.
I'm a 20+ year heavy PC user and I have yet to see, let alone need an EC peripheral. I guess a doo-dad to make your notebook run on cell networks would be one, but otherwise I don't have any idea who really needs this port.
Anyone notice the 13" Pro doesn't have a dedicated line-in?
(To make room for FireWire I suppose)
That IS kind of sucky, no? Any workarounds?
Anyone notice the 13" Pro doesn't have a dedicated line-in?
(To make room for FireWire I suppose)
In the current unibody notebooks the headphone and mic are one so you can use your Apple headphones with them. Even the controls work on the headphones. But they left the mic as separate, too.
I guess this gives room for the FW800 port, but with a screwed-on bottom they had more room to maneuver. I guess we?ll have to wait and see the iFixit breakdown.
These arguments just get more and more absurd. The only way what you say makes any sense is if the work being done doesn't require the user to be mobile. Pro = a hell of a lot more than sitting in one place editing video with Final Cut Pro.
No, it is not anything more than just that. A professional CANNOT cut any corners in his work. He or she must bring a flawless product to the market in color's that look professional on 5 or 6 differant kinds of media. And all the colors have to look exactly the same on all the possible media's.
The lines are blurring between the very high end photoshop/finalcut pro kind of user, to people like me who burn some movie's, watch some hulu and plays cod4.
If you are a PRO and you can get away with using a $300 net-book, fine.
A pro uses their own CTR monitor for true color. And they would never touch a glossy anything ever.
Understand yet? All you high end users lucked out all these years using mac's made for the Masses'. The PRO market is less than one percent. However loud you scream, the day's of apple catering to you is over.
My only big question is the built in battery, I'm concerned about having to pay an additional service fee plus the cost of a battery to get it replaced, unless you want to 'throw out' you laptop every few years when the battery starts to loose it's charge capacity. Incidentally it also means more profits for Apple and the other manufacturers who are going to this battery, since it prevents 3rd parties from making replacement batteries to be installed by the user or providing backup batteries for photographers and others who work in remote locations where power to recharge might not be available.
That's more kind and diplomatic than how I would put it.
The same people defended the lack of firewire on the 13" aluminum laptops. The same ones said over and over again that I don't need an SD card slot. Those same people are STILL defending glossy screens.
Movie's look fantastic on a glossy screen. Everything looks better with a glossy screen .And i love the return of the fire wire.
I?m half interested in the 15? MBP now that it has the 9400M, but seeing as how the display in the 13? has been greatly improved I may just stick with that size for my next purchase. I do nothing that requires that so i see no need to pay for it or have my battery be used quicker because of it.
Ditto. The 13" looks very good to me.
Nice update, might have to go for a 13" Pro for school this fall.
My only big question is the built in battery, I'm concerned about having to pay an additional service fee plus the cost of a battery to get it replaced, unless you want to 'throw out' you laptop every few years when the battery starts to loose it's charge capacity. Incidentally it also means more profits for Apple and the other manufacturers who are going to this battery, since it prevents 3rd parties from making replacement batteries to be installed by the user or providing backup batteries for photographers and others who work in remote locations where power to recharge might not be available.
To change the battery is the same work it would take to upgrade the RAM. Just remove the bottom cover. But the presentation noted that the battery is meant to have a longer lifespan than other batteries. By the time it dies on you chances are you won?t even own it anymore and higher density batteries will probably be out for less money. I don?t know why you think 3rd-parties can?t make a replacement battery. I doubt it soldered in.
MacBook Air's what?
Seriously, it's bad enough when the retarded teenagers on these boards do it, but now the AI staff is randomly inserting apostrophes into words?
The apostrophe is appropriate for showing possession. Its doesn't need it but you add 's to show possession and s' when showing possession for more than one.
In this case it is a toss-up. Macbook Air's is fine and, technically, Macbook Airs' is okay too.
The apostrophe is appropriate for showing possession. Its doesn't need it but you add 's to show possession and s' when showing possession for more than one.
In this case it is a toss-up. Macbook Air's is fine and, technically, Macbook Airs' is okay too.
the original quote he was addressing was :
"MacBook Air's were also updated with cheaper pricing"
The apostrophe here is wrong...Plural of MacBook Air is MacBook Airs.
the original quote he was addressing was :
"MacBook Air's were also updated with cheaper pricing"
The apostrophe here is wrong...Plural of MacBook Air is MacBook Airs.
I wonder why they thought they needed to use the plural anyway. They didn't say MacBookPros. If they were to say cheaper MacBook Air, don't you think most people would assume all of them would be cheaper from now on?
Now the Sony SR is twice as fast as the macbook. (because of the 4570)
It is just a fact. The Macbook 13" went from being Top-of-the-line to being half as fast.
No, no, you have it backward. The MBP is twice as fast as the Sony. See, 4570 x 2 = 9140. The MBP has a 9400M. The M stands for "More". So, the MBP is more than twice as fast as the Sony. It is just a fact.