Apple should sell a licensed plugin for itunes that allows the pre to sync. If Palm customers want to use Apples software, let them pay for it.
That's not a bad idea. As it stands, even if Apple does break the Pre/iTunes link, it'll be less than a month before there's an itunes plugin that does it and Apple gets a negative PR mark. I'm sure they'll never even consider it since others would want in too, increasing unlicensed hardware that they have to make compatible, but didn't design.
It looks to be that they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. Pretty tricky situation. I'll be interested to see what they do.
It seems to me its GOOD for Apple since it's not big enough of a feature for people to decide to get a Pre over an iPhone, but at the same time, existing Pre owners won't need to venture outside of iTunes if that's what they use to begin with. To block the Pre is to block a vast audience of people who they can still reach in some way, even after not being able to reach them with their iPhone. Anyone understand what I mean?
It obviously can work fine, and for Apple to break it just shows how far they go to artificially limit anything they can.
Apple should sell a licensed plugin for itunes that allows the pre to sync. If Palm customers want to use Apples software, let them pay for it.
Dumb idea. It would send people away, and trust me, there are plenty of great free alternatives. The software competes in a free market. Charging for it is like saying fuck off.
My opinion is that it's piss poor decision on Apple's part. iTunes is a central piece of OS X software and as such should not be locked to Apple's hardware alone. If Microsoft were to announce that Windows Media Player was only going to allow syncing with Zunes, people on here would be crying foul and screaming about MS's monopolistic policies. I have the same feeling about other pieces of Apple software like iMovie that provides encoding presets only for Apple products and YouTube. Apple's desire for complete control wears a bit thin at times.
i've never had a zune, but doesn't zune only work with zunemarketplace or something like that... Not wmp
Microsoft were to announce that Windows Media Player was only going to allow syncing with Zunes, people on here would be crying foul and screaming about MS's monopolistic policies.
Well, the fact that Windows Media Player does NOT support the iPod, means your little argument just became null and void.
It seems to me its GOOD for Apple since it's not big enough of a feature for people to decide to get a Pre over an iPhone, but at the same time, existing Pre owners won't need to venture outside of iTunes if that's what they use to begin with. To block the Pre is to block a vast audience of people who they can still reach in some way, even after not being able to reach them with their iPhone. Anyone understand what I mean?
Speaking for myself, no, I don't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster
... for Apple to break it just shows how far they go to artificially limit anything they can.
So, I think it ought to be pointed out again that Apple is not saying they will disconnect anyone from iTunes. No-name mp3 players sync with iTunes just fine. And the more people Apple can get to use their brand, the better. When people see the ease-of-use inherent in their software maybe they'll even switch.
Apple is simply saying that they will not be *supporting* the device.
The latest on this front has pundits frothing at the prospect of Palm daring to sync its Pre to iTunes, as if Apple is worried that the Palm Pre might help expand the popularity of its music player and sell more music. Really, if you are Apple, are you more worried about a million Palm Pre sales adding a million more iTunes users, or a million sales of something else tied to an iTunes rival?
Instead of worrying that Apple will try to stop Palm from using iTunes, a better question to ask is ?what has changed in the last five years that makes Palm desperate to associate its make-or-break phone with iTunes, following years of half-assed Mac support for basic Palm syncing??
My opinion is that it's piss poor decision on Apple's part. iTunes is a central piece of OS X software and as such should not be locked to Apple's hardware alone.
iTunes is NOT a central piece of OS X. You can delete it if you want. It won't affect the system. Unlike the old Windows and IE tether. Which the EU has to force them apart. MS even argued in US court that Windows wont function properly without IE. this was before the anti-trust sue too.
A simple technical note from Apple on Tuesday warns that it can't guarantee third-party devices like the Palm Pre will work with iTunes and adds that future updates to the software may break media syncing with third-party devices....
More manufactured controversy ...
Some time in the future people are going to look back on this and wonder what the heck was going on given that there is no evidence or statements of any kind from Apple that indicates it "doesn't like Palm" or that it's interested in crushing them with patent lawsuits, or screwing with their sync or anything of the sort. For that matter no one on the Palm side has ever said anything that would make it seem there is some kind of conflict or war between the two companies either.
In short, while we may get off on reading stories like this and there will of course be many angry comments about "the battle" between Pam and Apple over smart phone supremacy, there are still no actual facts to back up this point of view.
Some time in the future people are going to look back on this and wonder what the heck was going on given that there is no evidence or statements of any kind from Apple that indicates it "doesn't like Palm" or that it's interested in crushing them with patent lawsuits, or screwing with their sync or anything of the sort. For that matter no one on the Palm side has ever said anything that would make it seem there is some kind of conflict or war between the two companies either.
In short, while we may get off on reading stories like this and there will of course be many angry comments about "the battle" between Pam and Apple over smart phone supremacy, there are still no actual facts to back up this point of view.
It seems to me its GOOD for Apple since it's not big enough of a feature for people to decide to get a Pre over an iPhone, but at the same time, existing Pre owners won't need to venture outside of iTunes if that's what they use to begin with. To block the Pre is to block a vast audience of people who they can still reach in some way, even after not being able to reach them with their iPhone. Anyone understand what I mean?
It obviously can work fine, and for Apple to break it just shows how far they go to artificially limit anything they can.
Dude You are inventing a whole big thing here, that does not exist.
Itunes was invented by apple for and is a fre download for the world.
Apple spent tens of millions to get it right. Apple spends 100's of million's running itunes every year Apple went out and signed hundred's of content suppliers. Apple never asked anyone for a dime.
You seem like a smart guy, where do you get that any thing apple does is in the public domain?
Palm should have gone out and made its own music software or joined with another music supplier like rhapsody.
Apple's Itunes has already reached over 140.000,000 million people.And if palm was smart they would knock on steve's door and say we want to use your itunes with our iphone killer.
Of the 140 million itunes users, about 25 million own mac's . The rest own windows.
I mean what did we all expect...of course Apple is going to break it. They are the competition...I would break it too.
And I hope Canada's Competition Bureau breaks Apple too.
Apple's spent years promoting Macs as a 'Digital Hub' for electronic devices and never once stated that this only extended to Apple devices.
In fact, Mac OS X was open to virtually all major kinds of phones, cameras and music players right up until Apple bought SoundJam and turned it into iTunes.
If Apple breaks the Pre's ability to sync with iTunes, the Competition Bureau should force Apple to place a disclaimer on all Apple Store windows and its computer marketing materials that Macs are not guaranteed to work with non-Apple devices.
Locking out other devices is the kind of low-brow, Microsoft-like nonsense you do when you can't compete in the real world.
It is beneath Apple, and shouldn't be condoned - especially by Mac users.
And I hope Canada's Competition Bureau breaks Apple too.
Apple's spent years promoting Macs as a 'Digital Hub' for electronic devices and never once stated that this only extended to Apple devices.
In fact, Mac OS X was open to virtually all major kinds of phones, cameras and music players right up until Apple bought SoundJam and turned it into iTunes.
If Apple breaks the Pre's ability to sync with iTunes, the Competition Bureau should force Apple to place a disclaimer on all Apple Store windows and its computer marketing materials that Macs are not guaranteed to work with non-Apple devices.
Locking out other devices is the kind of low-brow, Microsoft-like nonsense you do when you can't compete in the real world.
It is beneath Apple, and shouldn't be condoned - especially by Mac users.
So it's honestly ok with you for a company that is a competitor, that sells a product in direct competition with your 'cash cow', to hack their product to work with your software to save themselves overhead? I'm sorry that's not the way things usually work, that's pretty much consider bush league, reverse engineering something is one thing, but just hacking your product to work on it? Please, yes I'm sure Canada will "break apple", maybe you should worry about your insurance industry, I hear car insurance is lovely there, you know since there is no COMPETITION ... *rolls eyes*
And I hope Canada's Competition Bureau breaks Apple too.
Apple's spent years promoting Macs as a 'Digital Hub' for electronic devices and never once stated that this only extended to Apple devices.
In fact, Mac OS X was open to virtually all major kinds of phones, cameras and music players right up until Apple bought SoundJam and turned it into iTunes.
If Apple breaks the Pre's ability to sync with iTunes, the Competition Bureau should force Apple to place a disclaimer on all Apple Store windows and its computer marketing materials that Macs are not guaranteed to work with non-Apple devices.
Locking out other devices is the kind of low-brow, Microsoft-like nonsense you do when you can't compete in the real world.
It is beneath Apple, and shouldn't be condoned - especially by Mac users.
There's been speculation that Palm did this to bait Apple into an anti-trust case and I think today's statement might give them some ammunition. The best play should have been to do nothing.
If nothing else, it's disingenuous to basically say that it syncs just like your iPhone. In many ways, the iPhone's tight integration with iTunes/OS X is a huge selling point, so by Palm insinuating they have the same thing, it dulls the iPhone luster a little bit.
Yes, you can use any old MP3 player in disc mode and no one can stop the idea of placing DRM-free music on a player. But doing a trick to make iTunes think it's a genuine iPod or iPhone is not cool.
So it's honestly ok with you for a company that is a competitor, that sells a product in direct competition with your 'cash cow', to hack their product to work with your software to save themselves overhead? I'm sorry that's not the way things usually work, that's pretty much consider bush league, reverse engineering something is one thing, but just hacking your product to work on it? Please, yes I'm sure Canada will "break apple", maybe you should worry about your insurance industry, I hear car insurance is lovely there, you know since there is no COMPETITION ... *rolls eyes*
If Palm used Apple trade secrets to make the Pre work with iTunes, they should pay for that in court. That being said, it does not excuse a vertical monopoly.
My opinion is that it's piss poor decision on Apple's part. iTunes is a central piece of OS X software and as such should not be locked to Apple's hardware alone. If Microsoft were to announce that Windows Media Player was only going to allow syncing with Zunes, people on here would be crying foul and screaming about MS's monopolistic policies. I have the same feeling about other pieces of Apple software like iMovie that provides encoding presets only for Apple products and YouTube. Apple's desire for complete control wears a bit thin at times.
I agree that it's a piss poor decision on Apple's part to announce this. However in comparison, Microsoft's Zune Marketplace is Zune specific...worse yet after they developed and marketed Played-For-Sure.
As far as iMovie... Apple's presets there make sense. As a novice on a Mac, you're most likely going to send it to YouTube, MobileMe, iTunes/iPod/iPhone/AppleTV, iDVD. Many other devices would accept the format options from these presets, but you also have the option in iMovie to export using QuickTime which allows you to export to any spec QuickTime supports directly or any spec that a 3rd party QickTime plugin has been created for. In other words, with iMovie, I feel like Apple is simply trying to simplify while supporting 3rd parties (like YouTube).
Why doesn't Palm just arrange a license deal with Apple? Then, Apple could benefit from the success of their rival. There really is a market big enough, given that the iPhone is exclusive to a single carrier in a given market, for most countries. I know that iTunes isn't really a money maker for Apple, but the more sold, the more profitable it would be on top of the license fees.
I think that heavy handed attempts at keeping iTunes exclusive might bring in some antitrust issues that Apple may not want.
So it's honestly ok with you for a company that is a competitor, that sells a product in direct competition with your 'cash cow', to hack their product to work with your software to save themselves overhead? I'm sorry that's not the way things usually work, that's pretty much consider bush league, reverse engineering something is one thing, but just hacking your product to work on it? Please, yes I'm sure Canada will "break apple"
Palm had no choice but to hack. Apple doesn't provide an API for the Pre to tap into.
Again, if Apple advises customers prior to purchase that its OS generally does not work with non-Apple phones or music players, they can do whatever they want.
But don't spend years pitching your wares as 'a Digital Hub for all your devices' and then lock out everybody else once people buy into your operating system. That's bait and switch.
Apple may be a Music and MP3 player vendor, but that business is separate from their function as a computer vendor. If Apple decides to really rev the camera in the iPhone, is it okay for them to then lock Canon and Nikon out of iPhoto?
We've cursed Microsoft for far, far less. This is just a time for Mac users to be consistent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamIIGS
maybe you should worry about your insurance industry, I hear car insurance is lovely there, you know since there is no COMPETITION ... *rolls eyes*
I'm not sure what you're talking about. I can pick from any number of auto insurance companies.
Comments
Apple should sell a licensed plugin for itunes that allows the pre to sync. If Palm customers want to use Apples software, let them pay for it.
That's not a bad idea. As it stands, even if Apple does break the Pre/iTunes link, it'll be less than a month before there's an itunes plugin that does it and Apple gets a negative PR mark. I'm sure they'll never even consider it since others would want in too, increasing unlicensed hardware that they have to make compatible, but didn't design.
It looks to be that they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. Pretty tricky situation. I'll be interested to see what they do.
It obviously can work fine, and for Apple to break it just shows how far they go to artificially limit anything they can.
Apple should sell a licensed plugin for itunes that allows the pre to sync. If Palm customers want to use Apples software, let them pay for it.
Dumb idea. It would send people away, and trust me, there are plenty of great free alternatives. The software competes in a free market. Charging for it is like saying fuck off.
My opinion is that it's piss poor decision on Apple's part. iTunes is a central piece of OS X software and as such should not be locked to Apple's hardware alone. If Microsoft were to announce that Windows Media Player was only going to allow syncing with Zunes, people on here would be crying foul and screaming about MS's monopolistic policies. I have the same feeling about other pieces of Apple software like iMovie that provides encoding presets only for Apple products and YouTube. Apple's desire for complete control wears a bit thin at times.
i've never had a zune, but doesn't zune only work with zunemarketplace or something like that... Not wmp
Microsoft were to announce that Windows Media Player was only going to allow syncing with Zunes, people on here would be crying foul and screaming about MS's monopolistic policies.
Well, the fact that Windows Media Player does NOT support the iPod, means your little argument just became null and void.
It seems to me its GOOD for Apple since it's not big enough of a feature for people to decide to get a Pre over an iPhone, but at the same time, existing Pre owners won't need to venture outside of iTunes if that's what they use to begin with. To block the Pre is to block a vast audience of people who they can still reach in some way, even after not being able to reach them with their iPhone. Anyone understand what I mean?
Speaking for myself, no, I don't.
... for Apple to break it just shows how far they go to artificially limit anything they can.
It's fine with me as an Apple shareholder.
can you sync an ipod with windows media player?
Why the hell would you want to in the first place! Besides, I though the most popular music player was WinAmps.
Maybe I will jailbrake my iPod to sync with WMP.
Apple is simply saying that they will not be *supporting* the device.
From Roughly Drafted:
The latest on this front has pundits frothing at the prospect of Palm daring to sync its Pre to iTunes, as if Apple is worried that the Palm Pre might help expand the popularity of its music player and sell more music. Really, if you are Apple, are you more worried about a million Palm Pre sales adding a million more iTunes users, or a million sales of something else tied to an iTunes rival?
Instead of worrying that Apple will try to stop Palm from using iTunes, a better question to ask is ?what has changed in the last five years that makes Palm desperate to associate its make-or-break phone with iTunes, following years of half-assed Mac support for basic Palm syncing??
Originally Posted by caliminius
My opinion is that it's piss poor decision on Apple's part. iTunes is a central piece of OS X software and as such should not be locked to Apple's hardware alone.
iTunes is NOT a central piece of OS X. You can delete it if you want. It won't affect the system. Unlike the old Windows and IE tether. Which the EU has to force them apart. MS even argued in US court that Windows wont function properly without IE. this was before the anti-trust sue too.
A simple technical note from Apple on Tuesday warns that it can't guarantee third-party devices like the Palm Pre will work with iTunes and adds that future updates to the software may break media syncing with third-party devices....
More manufactured controversy ...
Some time in the future people are going to look back on this and wonder what the heck was going on given that there is no evidence or statements of any kind from Apple that indicates it "doesn't like Palm" or that it's interested in crushing them with patent lawsuits, or screwing with their sync or anything of the sort. For that matter no one on the Palm side has ever said anything that would make it seem there is some kind of conflict or war between the two companies either.
In short, while we may get off on reading stories like this and there will of course be many angry comments about "the battle" between Pam and Apple over smart phone supremacy, there are still no actual facts to back up this point of view.
More manufactured controversy ...
Some time in the future people are going to look back on this and wonder what the heck was going on given that there is no evidence or statements of any kind from Apple that indicates it "doesn't like Palm" or that it's interested in crushing them with patent lawsuits, or screwing with their sync or anything of the sort. For that matter no one on the Palm side has ever said anything that would make it seem there is some kind of conflict or war between the two companies either.
In short, while we may get off on reading stories like this and there will of course be many angry comments about "the battle" between Pam and Apple over smart phone supremacy, there are still no actual facts to back up this point of view.
That is a superb set of points.
It seems to me its GOOD for Apple since it's not big enough of a feature for people to decide to get a Pre over an iPhone, but at the same time, existing Pre owners won't need to venture outside of iTunes if that's what they use to begin with. To block the Pre is to block a vast audience of people who they can still reach in some way, even after not being able to reach them with their iPhone. Anyone understand what I mean?
It obviously can work fine, and for Apple to break it just shows how far they go to artificially limit anything they can.
Dude You are inventing a whole big thing here, that does not exist.
Itunes was invented by apple for and is a fre download for the world.
Apple spent tens of millions to get it right. Apple spends 100's of million's running itunes every year Apple went out and signed hundred's of content suppliers. Apple never asked anyone for a dime.
You seem like a smart guy, where do you get that any thing apple does is in the public domain?
Palm should have gone out and made its own music software or joined with another music supplier like rhapsody.
Apple's Itunes has already reached over 140.000,000 million people.And if palm was smart they would knock on steve's door and say we want to use your itunes with our iphone killer.
Of the 140 million itunes users, about 25 million own mac's . The rest own windows.
I mean what did we all expect...of course Apple is going to break it. They are the competition...I would break it too.
And I hope Canada's Competition Bureau breaks Apple too.
Apple's spent years promoting Macs as a 'Digital Hub' for electronic devices and never once stated that this only extended to Apple devices.
In fact, Mac OS X was open to virtually all major kinds of phones, cameras and music players right up until Apple bought SoundJam and turned it into iTunes.
If Apple breaks the Pre's ability to sync with iTunes, the Competition Bureau should force Apple to place a disclaimer on all Apple Store windows and its computer marketing materials that Macs are not guaranteed to work with non-Apple devices.
Locking out other devices is the kind of low-brow, Microsoft-like nonsense you do when you can't compete in the real world.
It is beneath Apple, and shouldn't be condoned - especially by Mac users.
And I hope Canada's Competition Bureau breaks Apple too.
Apple's spent years promoting Macs as a 'Digital Hub' for electronic devices and never once stated that this only extended to Apple devices.
In fact, Mac OS X was open to virtually all major kinds of phones, cameras and music players right up until Apple bought SoundJam and turned it into iTunes.
If Apple breaks the Pre's ability to sync with iTunes, the Competition Bureau should force Apple to place a disclaimer on all Apple Store windows and its computer marketing materials that Macs are not guaranteed to work with non-Apple devices.
Locking out other devices is the kind of low-brow, Microsoft-like nonsense you do when you can't compete in the real world.
It is beneath Apple, and shouldn't be condoned - especially by Mac users.
So it's honestly ok with you for a company that is a competitor, that sells a product in direct competition with your 'cash cow', to hack their product to work with your software to save themselves overhead? I'm sorry that's not the way things usually work, that's pretty much consider bush league, reverse engineering something is one thing, but just hacking your product to work on it? Please, yes I'm sure Canada will "break apple", maybe you should worry about your insurance industry, I hear car insurance is lovely there, you know since there is no COMPETITION ... *rolls eyes*
And I hope Canada's Competition Bureau breaks Apple too.
Apple's spent years promoting Macs as a 'Digital Hub' for electronic devices and never once stated that this only extended to Apple devices.
In fact, Mac OS X was open to virtually all major kinds of phones, cameras and music players right up until Apple bought SoundJam and turned it into iTunes.
If Apple breaks the Pre's ability to sync with iTunes, the Competition Bureau should force Apple to place a disclaimer on all Apple Store windows and its computer marketing materials that Macs are not guaranteed to work with non-Apple devices.
Locking out other devices is the kind of low-brow, Microsoft-like nonsense you do when you can't compete in the real world.
It is beneath Apple, and shouldn't be condoned - especially by Mac users.
There's been speculation that Palm did this to bait Apple into an anti-trust case and I think today's statement might give them some ammunition. The best play should have been to do nothing.
Yes, you can use any old MP3 player in disc mode and no one can stop the idea of placing DRM-free music on a player. But doing a trick to make iTunes think it's a genuine iPod or iPhone is not cool.
So it's honestly ok with you for a company that is a competitor, that sells a product in direct competition with your 'cash cow', to hack their product to work with your software to save themselves overhead? I'm sorry that's not the way things usually work, that's pretty much consider bush league, reverse engineering something is one thing, but just hacking your product to work on it? Please, yes I'm sure Canada will "break apple", maybe you should worry about your insurance industry, I hear car insurance is lovely there, you know since there is no COMPETITION ... *rolls eyes*
If Palm used Apple trade secrets to make the Pre work with iTunes, they should pay for that in court. That being said, it does not excuse a vertical monopoly.
My opinion is that it's piss poor decision on Apple's part. iTunes is a central piece of OS X software and as such should not be locked to Apple's hardware alone. If Microsoft were to announce that Windows Media Player was only going to allow syncing with Zunes, people on here would be crying foul and screaming about MS's monopolistic policies. I have the same feeling about other pieces of Apple software like iMovie that provides encoding presets only for Apple products and YouTube. Apple's desire for complete control wears a bit thin at times.
I agree that it's a piss poor decision on Apple's part to announce this. However in comparison, Microsoft's Zune Marketplace is Zune specific...worse yet after they developed and marketed Played-For-Sure.
As far as iMovie... Apple's presets there make sense. As a novice on a Mac, you're most likely going to send it to YouTube, MobileMe, iTunes/iPod/iPhone/AppleTV, iDVD. Many other devices would accept the format options from these presets, but you also have the option in iMovie to export using QuickTime which allows you to export to any spec QuickTime supports directly or any spec that a 3rd party QickTime plugin has been created for. In other words, with iMovie, I feel like Apple is simply trying to simplify while supporting 3rd parties (like YouTube).
I think that heavy handed attempts at keeping iTunes exclusive might bring in some antitrust issues that Apple may not want.
So it's honestly ok with you for a company that is a competitor, that sells a product in direct competition with your 'cash cow', to hack their product to work with your software to save themselves overhead? I'm sorry that's not the way things usually work, that's pretty much consider bush league, reverse engineering something is one thing, but just hacking your product to work on it? Please, yes I'm sure Canada will "break apple"
Palm had no choice but to hack. Apple doesn't provide an API for the Pre to tap into.
Again, if Apple advises customers prior to purchase that its OS generally does not work with non-Apple phones or music players, they can do whatever they want.
But don't spend years pitching your wares as 'a Digital Hub for all your devices' and then lock out everybody else once people buy into your operating system. That's bait and switch.
Apple may be a Music and MP3 player vendor, but that business is separate from their function as a computer vendor. If Apple decides to really rev the camera in the iPhone, is it okay for them to then lock Canon and Nikon out of iPhoto?
We've cursed Microsoft for far, far less. This is just a time for Mac users to be consistent.
maybe you should worry about your insurance industry, I hear car insurance is lovely there, you know since there is no COMPETITION ... *rolls eyes*
I'm not sure what you're talking about. I can pick from any number of auto insurance companies.