Apple has the challenge of simultaneously learning what enterprise needs while rejecting the bad technology that pervades business IT.
Sometimes I think it might be better to start with small companies and define an Apple Business way, then work their way up with a superior offering.
They could start with small companies they are already familiar with - say media companies - not only providing tech infrastructure, but a whole-business process. Isn't someone from Quicken/Intuit/? on the board already?
Another point: There's a big difference between companies for whom IT is part of their competitive advantage and those that want IT to get all the 'other stuff' out of the way so they can concentrate on what they do best. This latter category could really use some Apple goodness.
No,no. I don't think, they'll do it that way. You're not a serious player on that market, unless you manage to contract with some "mammoths". Selling 10 phones to Friends'n'Family Inc. won't change anything.
Apple did it with desktop computers. They can figure that out with phones, no doubt.
If RIM sucks so bad it should be much closer. I guess people are ignorant like those that buy glossy screens.
Huh? That Apple hasn't, in two years, dispatched RIM, the acknowledged entrenched incumbent of business phones, means RIM will forever more reign supreme?
RIM doesn't suck so bad, they have a niche model going forward, unless they write an entirely new, from-the-ground up OS good enough to scale.
A really good email device looks good when you're mostly used to nothing at all. It looks increasingly less good when the next guy's handset is a fully functional computer with a vast array of apps and functionality and a seamless continuum from handset to desktop to server.
I disagree! If Apple is serious about entering the enterprise, they can buy (hire) that talent/capability.
It's like saying "Apple will never succeed in the retail market", just because they weren't already in the market... or: the music player market; the cell phone market; the smart phone market, the online music/video/application distribution market... ad nauseam.
in each of the above, Apple was not first-- rather, they looked at what existed and then did it the "Apple Way", often buying or hiring needed capability.
If and when Apple perceives "entering the enterprise" to be in its best interest (with an acceptable ROI), they will do it!
Dick
Well I'm glad you think so positive.
Perhaps one day they will come around, but the advantage they had over RIM with the iPhone in corporate space is gone.
It's going to be hard to change the image of the iPhone from a "gaming device" now.
Definitely agree that iTunes isn't the software that businesses would want their users syncing with. A corporate syncing tool that looked, well, corporate, even if it is iTunes under the hood, would be a good idea.
OTOH I doubt many businesses care that their users also like music, and Apple won't complain if business computers get iTunes, and thus more iTunes users.
Perhaps one day they will come around, but the advantage they had over RIM with the iPhone in corporate space is gone.
It's going to be hard to change the image of the iPhone from a "gaming device" now.
The advantage is not gone when the device is just now getting into its stride with the new OS features of v3.0. We’ve seen companies not go for the first version and then turn full circle for the second OS version and companies will be even more open to the iPhone. That doesn’t mean they’ll stop using BB’s but having IT accept the iPhone is certainly an option. And, as I stated earlier, teh high cost of BES will also be persuasive.
As for the gaming device comment, what does that actually mean? Why can’t it be the popular on both fronts. Windows is used in the enterprise and it’s gaming platform for PC’s, too. Exceling in one area does not mean you can’t excel in the other.
The argument that Apple can't succeed in business because it caters to consumers first doesn't make much sense, IMHO. Look at RIM... they are trying very hard to gain in the consumer space. Are they destined to fail because they cater to business first? I don't think they're failing with consumers just by a cursory look at what non-business users are carrying around on their person.
All of Apple's software initiatives to attract corporate users to the iPhone aren't going to go very far without two important things that Apple hasn't addressed:
1) Tie-in to AT&T. Not there's anything wrong with AT&T but corporations don't want that baggage with the iPhone. There are many corporations that have deals with VerizonWireless right now. They aren't going to make that wholesale change just to get some iPhones.
2) Lack of tethered 3G internet. This is a must for many corporations.
If you point was that having people work in the garden was unattractive, then why mention their nationality. If it was not important to your point (Mexicans working in plain view in a nice neighborhood, as I read it) then you would not have mentioned it.
Furthermore, how do you even know they were from Mexico? I have had meny people toss out Mexican as an "acceptable slur" towards people of (apparent) Latino origin.
Maybe. I suppose I am very sensitive to racisim towards my family members, though I would like to think that I am sensitive to all types of insensitivity...
mactripper just delete mexican for garden workers.
The advantage is not gone when the device is just now getting into its stride with the new OS features of v3.0. We?ve seen companies not go for the first version and then turn full circle for the second OS version and companies will be even more open to the iPhone. That doesn?t mean they?ll stop using BB?s but having IT accept the iPhone is certainly an option. And, as I stated earlier, teh high cost of BES will also be persuasive.
As for the gaming device comment, what does that actually mean? Why can?t it be the popular on both fronts. Windows is used in the enterprise and it?s gaming platform for PC?s, too. Excelling in one area does not mean you can?t excel in the other.
What mac tripper fails to see is the incredible ground-swelling of company employees demanding the iphone. and apple has addressed most of the early complaints about the first 2 g model, push, security etc etc.
I feel with all those corporate apps on the way for the 3gs iphone. it will be unbeatable
If you point was that having people work in the garden was unattractive, then why mention their nationality. If it was not important to your point (Mexicans working in plain view in a nice neighborhood, as I read it) then you would not have mentioned it.
Furthermore, how do you even know they were from Mexico? I have had meny people toss out Mexican as an "acceptable slur" towards people of (apparent) Latino origin.
Maybe. I suppose I am very sensitive to racisim towards my family members, though I would like to think that I am sensitive to all types of insensitivity...
Your first paragraph is not worthy of a response if your going to take what I said out of context, heck misquote me totally!, then troll with it like I offended you or persons of Mexican nationality..
I mentioned they were Mexican as a observation, that's all.
And no it's not unusual to see Mexicans working on wealthy people's lawns in well to do neighborhoods.
What is unusual is to see 10 or so people working on a farm on someone's front lawn in a very well to do neighborhood.
That they were Mexican, just added to the unusual situation, thus I mentioned it.
Usually people with money can buy all their own food and certainly don't need a crew of farm workers on their front lawn. Even more since something like that is better suited to farm zoned land where the smell of manure is tolerated, not in a very nice neighborhood where Steve Jobs house is.
So it is strange, yes it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bageljoey
...I would like to think that I am sensitive to all types of insensitivity...
I think your oversensitive to a fault.
I wonder if there is a name for a phobia of misperceived xenophobes!!
Kind of lends credence to the saying: "Every man is a wolf to another man until he gets to know him better"
What people aren't grasping is the move to Cocoa roots throughout has brought back key Cocoa Developers to Apple who pioneered much of NeXT's Enterprise focused businesses.
But I'll leave that up to people who don't know who they are to find Waldos.
As for the gaming device comment, what does that actually mean? Why can?t it be the popular on both fronts. Windows is used in the enterprise and it?s gaming platform for PC?s, too. Exceling in one area does not mean you can?t excel in the other.
Windows PC's don't make a good general consumer device, or else Apple would have been dead long ago!
And PC gaming is dying in favor of 'oh my gosh' more consumer friendly consoles.
The iPhone is a good consumer device, it can be used somewhat in corporations, but it's chiefly a consumer device in my opinion.
RIM is entrenching and waiting for the AT&T/Apple contract to expire, because they know Apple is going to try to break out and gain more market share a their expense.
In my opinion Apple will need a whole new device to convince the corporate market, with software solutions to boot. Like running word and excel on the iPhone XL for instance.
Five years was too long of a contract, Apple should have done 2.
Perhaps one day they will come around, but the advantage they had over RIM with the iPhone in corporate space is gone.
It's going to be hard to change the image of the iPhone from a "gaming device" now.
You take a pretty dim view of corporate America's ability to distinguish between content, software, and hardware.
I assume we can expect corporate America to give up on the internet, since it has gained a reputation as a "porn delivery system"? I remember when the big dig at Macs was that there weren't any games available, while PCs had games aplenty. Did that time coincide with the perception that Macs were more businesslike than PCs?
Your argument strikes me as a variant on the tech site commentary favorite, "So what if the iPhone has tons of apps, they're mostly fart apps." Which to say, it completely misses the point and comes off as a slightly desperate effort to deny what Apple has done.
Windows PC's don't make a good general consumer device, or else Apple would have been dead long ago!
And PC gaming is dying in favor of 'oh my gosh' more consumer friendly consoles.
The iPhone is a good consumer device, it can be used somewhat in corporations, but it's chiefly a consumer device in my opinion.
RIM is entrenching and waiting for the AT&T/Apple contract to expire, because they know Apple is going to try to break out and gain more market share a their expense.
In my opinion Apple will need a whole new device to convince the corporate market, with software solutions to boot. Like running word and excel on the iPhone XL for instance.
Five years was too long of a contract, Apple should have done 2.
People don't seem to have any problem wrapping their heads around the idea that the same laptop that runs their business apps can be used to play games, blog, do recreational surfing, edit the family photo album, edit home videos, chat with friends, listen to music, watch movies, or schedule birthdays and dinner parties.
What might prove to be a problem is a laptop that isn't very good at any of those things, but has a temporary lead in a few business apps.
It is frightening to read that people who have no vested interest in Apple talking as if they know what its future is based on their perception of the past.
It is equally frightening people are echoing that they know best what is going on through argument of things of the past.
Apple is today and tomorrow, as what and where is tomorrow is anyone's guess, my guess is Apple will innovate its way into the enterprise subtly thru their trade mark of ease of use in both hardware and software.
We are just bystanders and the people working in Apple know what is going on and where they are heading. We are only guessing here.
BTW many heroes of yesterdays are no longer relevant today and what is relevant today and tomorrow may be replace by another set of heroes.
So today's game is innovation while let us do what bystanders to best observe and enjoy whatever new innovation comes our way.
A single document often isn't enough to change opinions by itself, but having that document should be very helpful in following through should an organization decide to support iPhones.
Apple has been addressing a lot of the concerns about using iPhones in a business setting, the list of reasons not to use it starts to look a little petty.
A single document often isn't enough to change opinions by itself, but having that document should be very helpful in following through should an organization decide to support iPhones.
Apple has been addressing a lot of the concerns about using iPhones in a business setting, the list of reasons not to use it starts to look a little petty.
If the IT Dept can't service it- how is that petty?
A single document often isn't enough to change opinions by itself, but having that document should be very helpful in following through should an organization decide to support iPhones.
Apple has been addressing a lot of the concerns about using iPhones in a business setting, the list of reasons not to use it starts to look a little petty.
I agree. My original point -- which I withdrew, since I did not want to start a flame war with the IT folks here -- put better, was (sort of) that many IT departments are indeed entrenched and petty. They have too much invested in their own legacy decisions, training, human capital, infrastructure, vendor relations, professional contacts and seminars and conferences, 'ways of doing business,' and sheer laziness, to be open to switching.
Comments
Apple has the challenge of simultaneously learning what enterprise needs while rejecting the bad technology that pervades business IT.
Sometimes I think it might be better to start with small companies and define an Apple Business way, then work their way up with a superior offering.
They could start with small companies they are already familiar with - say media companies - not only providing tech infrastructure, but a whole-business process. Isn't someone from Quicken/Intuit/? on the board already?
Another point: There's a big difference between companies for whom IT is part of their competitive advantage and those that want IT to get all the 'other stuff' out of the way so they can concentrate on what they do best. This latter category could really use some Apple goodness.
No,no. I don't think, they'll do it that way. You're not a serious player on that market, unless you manage to contract with some "mammoths". Selling 10 phones to Friends'n'Family Inc. won't change anything.
Apple did it with desktop computers. They can figure that out with phones, no doubt.
Apple's phone is just two years old business.
Dude, you just lost the argument with that crap. Your other arguements are failing, so you fall back on good ol' ad hominem.
Weak.
Not, I started another subject since "hippies" was brought up.
Now that's intelligent.
If RIM sucks so bad it should be much closer. I guess people are ignorant like those that buy glossy screens.
Huh? That Apple hasn't, in two years, dispatched RIM, the acknowledged entrenched incumbent of business phones, means RIM will forever more reign supreme?
RIM doesn't suck so bad, they have a niche model going forward, unless they write an entirely new, from-the-ground up OS good enough to scale.
A really good email device looks good when you're mostly used to nothing at all. It looks increasingly less good when the next guy's handset is a fully functional computer with a vast array of apps and functionality and a seamless continuum from handset to desktop to server.
I disagree! If Apple is serious about entering the enterprise, they can buy (hire) that talent/capability.
It's like saying "Apple will never succeed in the retail market", just because they weren't already in the market... or: the music player market; the cell phone market; the smart phone market, the online music/video/application distribution market... ad nauseam.
in each of the above, Apple was not first-- rather, they looked at what existed and then did it the "Apple Way", often buying or hiring needed capability.
If and when Apple perceives "entering the enterprise" to be in its best interest (with an acceptable ROI), they will do it!
Dick
Well I'm glad you think so positive.
Perhaps one day they will come around, but the advantage they had over RIM with the iPhone in corporate space is gone.
It's going to be hard to change the image of the iPhone from a "gaming device" now.
Definitely agree that iTunes isn't the software that businesses would want their users syncing with. A corporate syncing tool that looked, well, corporate, even if it is iTunes under the hood, would be a good idea.
OTOH I doubt many businesses care that their users also like music, and Apple won't complain if business computers get iTunes, and thus more iTunes users.
Agreed.
Well I'm glad you think so positive.
Perhaps one day they will come around, but the advantage they had over RIM with the iPhone in corporate space is gone.
It's going to be hard to change the image of the iPhone from a "gaming device" now.
The advantage is not gone when the device is just now getting into its stride with the new OS features of v3.0. We’ve seen companies not go for the first version and then turn full circle for the second OS version and companies will be even more open to the iPhone. That doesn’t mean they’ll stop using BB’s but having IT accept the iPhone is certainly an option. And, as I stated earlier, teh high cost of BES will also be persuasive.
As for the gaming device comment, what does that actually mean? Why can’t it be the popular on both fronts. Windows is used in the enterprise and it’s gaming platform for PC’s, too. Exceling in one area does not mean you can’t excel in the other.
All of Apple's software initiatives to attract corporate users to the iPhone aren't going to go very far without two important things that Apple hasn't addressed:
1) Tie-in to AT&T. Not there's anything wrong with AT&T but corporations don't want that baggage with the iPhone. There are many corporations that have deals with VerizonWireless right now. They aren't going to make that wholesale change just to get some iPhones.
2) Lack of tethered 3G internet. This is a must for many corporations.
Yes the iphone has exchange support but I dont see it joining domains anytime soon.
If you point was that having people work in the garden was unattractive, then why mention their nationality. If it was not important to your point (Mexicans working in plain view in a nice neighborhood, as I read it) then you would not have mentioned it.
Furthermore, how do you even know they were from Mexico? I have had meny people toss out Mexican as an "acceptable slur" towards people of (apparent) Latino origin.
Maybe. I suppose I am very sensitive to racisim towards my family members, though I would like to think that I am sensitive to all types of insensitivity...
mactripper just delete mexican for garden workers.
The advantage is not gone when the device is just now getting into its stride with the new OS features of v3.0. We?ve seen companies not go for the first version and then turn full circle for the second OS version and companies will be even more open to the iPhone. That doesn?t mean they?ll stop using BB?s but having IT accept the iPhone is certainly an option. And, as I stated earlier, teh high cost of BES will also be persuasive.
As for the gaming device comment, what does that actually mean? Why can?t it be the popular on both fronts. Windows is used in the enterprise and it?s gaming platform for PC?s, too. Excelling in one area does not mean you can?t excel in the other.
What mac tripper fails to see is the incredible ground-swelling of company employees demanding the iphone. and apple has addressed most of the early complaints about the first 2 g model, push, security etc etc.
I feel with all those corporate apps on the way for the 3gs iphone. it will be unbeatable
Just saying
9
If you point was that having people work in the garden was unattractive, then why mention their nationality. If it was not important to your point (Mexicans working in plain view in a nice neighborhood, as I read it) then you would not have mentioned it.
Furthermore, how do you even know they were from Mexico? I have had meny people toss out Mexican as an "acceptable slur" towards people of (apparent) Latino origin.
Maybe. I suppose I am very sensitive to racisim towards my family members, though I would like to think that I am sensitive to all types of insensitivity...
Your first paragraph is not worthy of a response if your going to take what I said out of context, heck misquote me totally!, then troll with it like I offended you or persons of Mexican nationality..
I mentioned they were Mexican as a observation, that's all.
And no it's not unusual to see Mexicans working on wealthy people's lawns in well to do neighborhoods.
What is unusual is to see 10 or so people working on a farm on someone's front lawn in a very well to do neighborhood.
That they were Mexican, just added to the unusual situation, thus I mentioned it.
Usually people with money can buy all their own food and certainly don't need a crew of farm workers on their front lawn. Even more since something like that is better suited to farm zoned land where the smell of manure is tolerated, not in a very nice neighborhood where Steve Jobs house is.
So it is strange, yes it is.
...I would like to think that I am sensitive to all types of insensitivity...
I think your oversensitive to a fault.
I wonder if there is a name for a phobia of misperceived xenophobes!!
Kind of lends credence to the saying: "Every man is a wolf to another man until he gets to know him better"
mactripper just delete mexican for garden workers.
Yea, I replaced it with "foreign workers"
I don't have a problem editing, that's what it's there for.
Although I believe that was really unnecessary, but hey, for today I'll be nice and show I'm not a asshole.
But I'll leave that up to people who don't know who they are to find Waldos.
As for the gaming device comment, what does that actually mean? Why can?t it be the popular on both fronts. Windows is used in the enterprise and it?s gaming platform for PC?s, too. Exceling in one area does not mean you can?t excel in the other.
Windows PC's don't make a good general consumer device, or else Apple would have been dead long ago!
And PC gaming is dying in favor of 'oh my gosh' more consumer friendly consoles.
The iPhone is a good consumer device, it can be used somewhat in corporations, but it's chiefly a consumer device in my opinion.
RIM is entrenching and waiting for the AT&T/Apple contract to expire, because they know Apple is going to try to break out and gain more market share a their expense.
In my opinion Apple will need a whole new device to convince the corporate market, with software solutions to boot. Like running word and excel on the iPhone XL for instance.
Five years was too long of a contract, Apple should have done 2.
Well I'm glad you think so positive.
Perhaps one day they will come around, but the advantage they had over RIM with the iPhone in corporate space is gone.
It's going to be hard to change the image of the iPhone from a "gaming device" now.
You take a pretty dim view of corporate America's ability to distinguish between content, software, and hardware.
I assume we can expect corporate America to give up on the internet, since it has gained a reputation as a "porn delivery system"? I remember when the big dig at Macs was that there weren't any games available, while PCs had games aplenty. Did that time coincide with the perception that Macs were more businesslike than PCs?
Your argument strikes me as a variant on the tech site commentary favorite, "So what if the iPhone has tons of apps, they're mostly fart apps." Which to say, it completely misses the point and comes off as a slightly desperate effort to deny what Apple has done.
Windows PC's don't make a good general consumer device, or else Apple would have been dead long ago!
And PC gaming is dying in favor of 'oh my gosh' more consumer friendly consoles.
The iPhone is a good consumer device, it can be used somewhat in corporations, but it's chiefly a consumer device in my opinion.
RIM is entrenching and waiting for the AT&T/Apple contract to expire, because they know Apple is going to try to break out and gain more market share a their expense.
In my opinion Apple will need a whole new device to convince the corporate market, with software solutions to boot. Like running word and excel on the iPhone XL for instance.
Five years was too long of a contract, Apple should have done 2.
People don't seem to have any problem wrapping their heads around the idea that the same laptop that runs their business apps can be used to play games, blog, do recreational surfing, edit the family photo album, edit home videos, chat with friends, listen to music, watch movies, or schedule birthdays and dinner parties.
What might prove to be a problem is a laptop that isn't very good at any of those things, but has a temporary lead in a few business apps.
It is equally frightening people are echoing that they know best what is going on through argument of things of the past.
Apple is today and tomorrow, as what and where is tomorrow is anyone's guess, my guess is Apple will innovate its way into the enterprise subtly thru their trade mark of ease of use in both hardware and software.
We are just bystanders and the people working in Apple know what is going on and where they are heading. We are only guessing here.
BTW many heroes of yesterdays are no longer relevant today and what is relevant today and tomorrow may be replace by another set of heroes.
So today's game is innovation while let us do what bystanders to best observe and enjoy whatever new innovation comes our way.
Hope it will have some impact. But I doubt it.
A single document often isn't enough to change opinions by itself, but having that document should be very helpful in following through should an organization decide to support iPhones.
Apple has been addressing a lot of the concerns about using iPhones in a business setting, the list of reasons not to use it starts to look a little petty.
A single document often isn't enough to change opinions by itself, but having that document should be very helpful in following through should an organization decide to support iPhones.
Apple has been addressing a lot of the concerns about using iPhones in a business setting, the list of reasons not to use it starts to look a little petty.
If the IT Dept can't service it- how is that petty?
A single document often isn't enough to change opinions by itself, but having that document should be very helpful in following through should an organization decide to support iPhones.
Apple has been addressing a lot of the concerns about using iPhones in a business setting, the list of reasons not to use it starts to look a little petty.
I agree. My original point -- which I withdrew, since I did not want to start a flame war with the IT folks here -- put better, was (sort of) that many IT departments are indeed entrenched and petty. They have too much invested in their own legacy decisions, training, human capital, infrastructure, vendor relations, professional contacts and seminars and conferences, 'ways of doing business,' and sheer laziness, to be open to switching.