Not quite. As an example, our corporate email is hosted by Google for a small monthly fee. Works perfectly well with the iPhone. No Exchange is needed.
Google has siginificant limitations when considering calendar services and their "exchangeified" interface... max calendar count, sometime not very reliable etc. If you want to be sure (i mean "sure", you know), you simply go for Exchange.
And I know there are hosted Exchange solutions. But that again works for MS.
I know Apple needs Exchange support, because Exchange is ubiquitous ant not supporting it is a suicide. But why support ONLY Exchange when those features are perfectly working without it? I just don't believe they didn't have the time to implement that...
I'm also sure the iPhone is going to be the best business solution. But I hope it will be so using the Snow Leopard Server.
I know Apple needs Exchange support, because Exchange is ubiquitous ant not supporting it is a suicide. But why support ONLY Exchange when those features are perfectly working without it? I just don't believe they didn't have the time to implement that...
I'm also sure the iPhone is going to be the best business solution. But I hope it will be so using the Snow Leopard Server.
iPhone OS 3 does support CalDAV, which is what Snow Leopard's calendaring server uses...
I don't blame them for supporting Exchange first though. It has momentum, and no large business is going to change their backend server technology just for a phone.
But Masternav didn't talk about what sort of services are missing. Can you provide examples?
That was uncalled for. Same with the nimrod comment. I'm going to start handing out infraction points to people involved with name calling. I started with the guy that called you a bozo but definitely not ending it there.
Accept my apology . I deleted any names i may have said .
I'm going to start handing out infraction points to people involved with name calling. I started with the guy that called you a bozo but definitely not ending it there.
You can infract me all you want, but you really ought to pay more attention to Teckstud and his various other personas. The guy denigrates and name calls others on a regular basis, including mangling their names deliberately just to be divisive, and usually with no cause whatsoever other than the fact that someone had the misfortune to harbor an opinion that differs from his. Do you call him on that stuff, eh? Have you ever done one thing to reign him in? So, you get one person using one (mildly) rude term in connection with mr. teckstud and that causes you to spring into action all of a sudden, while the egregious behavior that has gone before has not?
This guy is rude, condescending, combative, and generally dismissive and hostile to pretty much everyone else who has the temerity to post here. So, you can 'infract' me for saying what many others here feel, while continuing to do nothing about the rude, obnoxious behavior of the teckstud, if you want, but that does nothing to address the real issue.
Definitely agree that iTunes isn't the software that businesses would want their users syncing with. A corporate syncing tool that looked, well, corporate, even if it is iTunes under the hood, would be a good idea.
OTOH I doubt many businesses care that their users also like music, and Apple won't complain if business computers get iTunes, and thus more iTunes users.
I just remembered that Apple also has an iPhone Configuration Utility. This allows for some cool stuff, even changing the PIN unlocker to a password. I tried it once and it FUBARed iTunes ability to sync or restore do to a file change during that app?s install. I wonder if that is so Enterprise customers can have IT set it up and then have the personal data synced from Exchange OTA.
I just remembered that Apple also has an iPhone Configuration Utility. This allows for some cool stuff, even changing the PIN unlocker to a password. I tried it once and it FUBARed iTunes ability to sync or restore do to a file change during that app?s install. I wonder if that is so Enterprise customers can have IT set it up and then have the personal data synced from Exchange OTA.
Also you don't need to use iTunes to manage the device see link it can be done encrypted, over the air.
There is also the choice for IT Departments to activate the iPhone themselves in a central location using a central iTunes account and then handing out the phone to their users.
Config files can now also be locked so users can't delete them, so settings like turning the camera off etc can be enforced.
Also you don't need to use iTunes to manage the device see link it can be done encrypted, over the air.
There is also the choice for IT Departments to activate the iPhone themselves in a central location using a central iTunes account and then handing out the phone to their users.
Config files can now also be locked so users can't delete them, so settings like turning the camera off etc can be enforced.
Thanks.
Anyone doesn?t think that Apple isn?t serious about the Enterprise is not paying attention.
You can infract me all you want, but you really ought to pay more attention to Teckstud and his various other personas. The guy denigrates and name calls others on a regular basis, including mangling their names deliberately just to be divisive, and usually with no cause whatsoever other than the fact that someone had the misfortune to harbor an opinion that differs from his. Do you call him on that stuff, eh? Have you ever done one thing to reign him in? So, you get one person using one (mildly) rude term in connection with mr. teckstud and that causes you to spring into action all of a sudden, while the egregious behavior that has gone before has not?
This guy is rude, condescending, combative, and generally dismissive and hostile to pretty much everyone else who has the temerity to post here. So, you can 'infract' me for saying what many others here feel, while continuing to do nothing about the rude, obnoxious behavior of the teckstud, if you want, but that does nothing to address the real issue.
Good modedratin'!
But with this post, you only have a total of 51. That's not a good start.
And it certainly was uncalled for, as he hadn't attacked you.
I just read through all the posts on this and there is some intresting discussion points. The simple fact is for those corporations that have to adhere to regulations e.g. financial / insurance etc - Apple has a ways to go to equal what RIM provides via Blackberry Enterprise Server (BES).
I have oversight and management of close to 5,000 mobile devices (yes even some iPhones) and the difference in how one manages these devices is night and day. With BES you have total control and audit capabilities and WM / iPhone you are limited to a handful of policies and IIS logs to parse out via powershell to get information. The fact that a rush of companies are now making "enterprise" backend systems for iPhone only shows how much demand there is for that type of management (where it's required). Good, Kace, Trust Digital, Sybase etc. Which goes against all the arguements that iPhone is cheaper. The TCO is actually higher then the CAL cost for BES and in many cases Blackberry are free to little cost due to volume. iPhone is more expensive with less management in the long run.
OS 3.0 brought some needed things the previous calendar functionality was half baked and at least functions now. Still no way to do device level encryption which is now a state regulation many companies need to adhere to. This alone prevents iPhone adoption.
Another point brought up many times is personal liable devices being supported. I'm sorry but in most corporations that have said security / regulations concerns this will not happen. Personal liable while may save you some CAL cost, you are giving up a ton and STILL have to worry about discovery on the device is it is ever required. Just last year we had an executive arrested and without the BB would not have the proper audit trail via SMS to provide the investigation. This isn't just about you have some cool gadget in your pocket that has an app for that. Mobility is a platform now and needs proper oversight.
Hosted Exchange is another interesting concept and can save smaller companies a BOAT load of budget but .. you often have add on costs to provide BES, email retention, etc so your only saving on employee and server hardware. At the end of the day most companies just want to control their own email.
I've met frequently with Apple and have given them the big items to get some real enterprise support:
dump iTunes - no one wants to have to manage it or deal with the personal usage issues
device level encryption - something user controlled that can be disabled is not ideal
application deployment - corporations don't want to bother with Appstore for home grown apps developed for internal usage. This should all be OTA delivery.
roadmap - I need to plan 6/12/24 where I am going, what my budget will look like. I cannot wait until Apple releases information the day the product / update comes out.
Sorry so long but many here are USERS and don't live the side of this I do.
I just read through all the posts on this and there is some intresting discussion points. The simple fact is for those corporations that have to adhere to regulations e.g. financial / insurance etc - Apple has a ways to go to equal what RIM provides via Blackberry Enterprise Server (BES).
I have oversight and management of close to 5,000 mobile devices (yes even some iPhones) and the difference in how one manages these devices is night and day. With BES you have total control and audit capabilities and WM / iPhone you are limited to a handful of policies and IIS logs to parse out via powershell to get information. The fact that a rush of companies are now making "enterprise" backend systems for iPhone only shows how much demand there is for that type of management (where it's required). Good, Kace, Trust Digital, Sybase etc. Which goes against all the arguements that iPhone is cheaper. The TCO is actually higher then the CAL cost for BES and in many cases Blackberry are free to little cost due to volume. iPhone is more expensive with less management in the long run.
OS 3.0 brought some needed things the previous calendar functionality was half baked and at least functions now. Still no way to do device level encryption which is now a state regulation many companies need to adhere to. This alone prevents iPhone adoption.
Another point brought up many times is personal liable devices being supported. I'm sorry but in most corporations that have said security / regulations concerns this will not happen. Personal liable while may save you some CAL cost, you are giving up a ton and STILL have to worry about discovery on the device is it is ever required. Just last year we had an executive arrested and without the BB would not have the proper audit trail via SMS to provide the investigation. This isn't just about you have some cool gadget in your pocket that has an app for that. Mobility is a platform now and needs proper oversight.
Hosted Exchange is another interesting concept and can save smaller companies a BOAT load of budget but .. you often have add on costs to provide BES, email retention, etc so your only saving on employee and server hardware. At the end of the day most companies just want to control their own email.
I've met frequently with Apple and have given them the big items to get some real enterprise support:
dump iTunes - no one wants to have to manage it or deal with the personal usage issues
device level encryption - something user controlled that can be disabled is not ideal
application deployment - corporations don't want to bother with Appstore for home grown apps developed for internal usage. This should all be OTA delivery.
roadmap - I need to plan 6/12/24 where I am going, what my budget will look like. I cannot wait until Apple releases information the day the product / update comes out.
Sorry so long but many here are USERS and don't live the side of this I do.
Those are all good points, but how do you respond to the fact that more than a few large companies have already adopted the iPhone, some going back to the first gen. model with OS ver. 1?
Not evey company has all of those needs obviously, or this wouldn't have happened.
It's also interesting that J D Power found that the iPhone was much preferred by business people who use cell phones, to the Blackberry. It wasn't even a close call. The BB was beaten handily in every category.
When you speak of costs, you are likely correct for those companies whose needs match your own, but as it seems that not every company has all of those needs, their costs could be much less.
With the new iPhone's availability - if at all - AT&T also introduced its "new" service plan for $45/month to allow users to access corporate - Exchange - email access! For the first generation iPhone this was all available for $20/month. Amazing what a monopoly position can do, even if you have crappy service.
I suppose that disparingly calling a guy "Steve's little soldier" is technically not as bad than calling someone a <insert your favorite **** here>. But it is STILL a personal attack and you sluffed it off. Worse, the guy wasn't even disrespectful to you. He wrote "Mel, I appreciate a lot of what you say in these forums, but sometimes your posts are conjecture not supported by facts, even though you often require others to supply the facts before you will accept what they have to say."
When I get a point from Lundy (which I haven't) I can be sure it's fair. He leaves no opportunity for himself to make a personal attack by simply not posting in a forum he mods heavily. And he uses the banstick reasonably heavily. Mostly because some participants can't seem to not cross the line when the other guy moons them from the other side.
I suppose that disparingly calling a guy "Steve's little soldier" is technically not as bad than calling someone a <insert your favorite **** here>. But it is STILL a personal attack and you sluffed it off. Worse, the guy wasn't even disrespectful to you. He wrote "Mel, I appreciate a lot of what you say in these forums, but sometimes your posts are conjecture not supported by facts, even though you often require others to supply the facts before you will accept what they have to say."
When I get a point from Lundy (which I haven't) I can be sure it's fair. He leaves no opportunity for himself to make a personal attack by simply not posting in a forum he mods heavily. And he uses the banstick reasonably heavily. Mostly because some participants can't seem to not cross the line when the other guy moons them from the other side.
When I accepted this "job", I made it quite clear that if I needed to change my posting style, I couldn't accept it.
I'm more than fair with people, and for you to be fair, you would have to admit that. Coming from one who has used some of the worst cursing against me, numerous times, without my asking for retaliation from the mods or admins (and also against some others), I find it strange that now you would act as as someone who objects to very mild statements on my part.
Comments
Not quite. As an example, our corporate email is hosted by Google for a small monthly fee. Works perfectly well with the iPhone. No Exchange is needed.
Google has siginificant limitations when considering calendar services and their "exchangeified" interface... max calendar count, sometime not very reliable etc. If you want to be sure (i mean "sure", you know), you simply go for Exchange.
And I know there are hosted Exchange solutions. But that again works for MS.
I know Apple needs Exchange support, because Exchange is ubiquitous ant not supporting it is a suicide. But why support ONLY Exchange when those features are perfectly working without it? I just don't believe they didn't have the time to implement that...
I'm also sure the iPhone is going to be the best business solution. But I hope it will be so using the Snow Leopard Server.
I know Apple needs Exchange support, because Exchange is ubiquitous ant not supporting it is a suicide. But why support ONLY Exchange when those features are perfectly working without it? I just don't believe they didn't have the time to implement that...
I'm also sure the iPhone is going to be the best business solution. But I hope it will be so using the Snow Leopard Server.
iPhone OS 3 does support CalDAV, which is what Snow Leopard's calendaring server uses...
I don't blame them for supporting Exchange first though. It has momentum, and no large business is going to change their backend server technology just for a phone.
But Masternav didn't talk about what sort of services are missing. Can you provide examples?
That was uncalled for. Same with the nimrod comment. I'm going to start handing out infraction points to people involved with name calling. I started with the guy that called you a bozo but definitely not ending it there.
Accept my apology . I deleted any names i may have said .
peace
9
I'm going to start handing out infraction points to people involved with name calling. I started with the guy that called you a bozo but definitely not ending it there.
You can infract me all you want, but you really ought to pay more attention to Teckstud and his various other personas. The guy denigrates and name calls others on a regular basis, including mangling their names deliberately just to be divisive, and usually with no cause whatsoever other than the fact that someone had the misfortune to harbor an opinion that differs from his. Do you call him on that stuff, eh? Have you ever done one thing to reign him in? So, you get one person using one (mildly) rude term in connection with mr. teckstud and that causes you to spring into action all of a sudden, while the egregious behavior that has gone before has not?
This guy is rude, condescending, combative, and generally dismissive and hostile to pretty much everyone else who has the temerity to post here. So, you can 'infract' me for saying what many others here feel, while continuing to do nothing about the rude, obnoxious behavior of the teckstud, if you want, but that does nothing to address the real issue.
Good modedratin'!
Definitely agree that iTunes isn't the software that businesses would want their users syncing with. A corporate syncing tool that looked, well, corporate, even if it is iTunes under the hood, would be a good idea.
OTOH I doubt many businesses care that their users also like music, and Apple won't complain if business computers get iTunes, and thus more iTunes users.
I just remembered that Apple also has an iPhone Configuration Utility. This allows for some cool stuff, even changing the PIN unlocker to a password. I tried it once and it FUBARed iTunes ability to sync or restore do to a file change during that app?s install. I wonder if that is so Enterprise customers can have IT set it up and then have the personal data synced from Exchange OTA.
I just remembered that Apple also has an iPhone Configuration Utility. This allows for some cool stuff, even changing the PIN unlocker to a password. I tried it once and it FUBARed iTunes ability to sync or restore do to a file change during that app?s install. I wonder if that is so Enterprise customers can have IT set it up and then have the personal data synced from Exchange OTA.
Also you don't need to use iTunes to manage the device see link it can be done encrypted, over the air.
There is also the choice for IT Departments to activate the iPhone themselves in a central location using a central iTunes account and then handing out the phone to their users.
Config files can now also be locked so users can't delete them, so settings like turning the camera off etc can be enforced.
Also you don't need to use iTunes to manage the device see link it can be done encrypted, over the air.
There is also the choice for IT Departments to activate the iPhone themselves in a central location using a central iTunes account and then handing out the phone to their users.
Config files can now also be locked so users can't delete them, so settings like turning the camera off etc can be enforced.
Thanks.
Anyone doesn?t think that Apple isn?t serious about the Enterprise is not paying attention.
You can infract me all you want, but you really ought to pay more attention to Teckstud and his various other personas. The guy denigrates and name calls others on a regular basis, including mangling their names deliberately just to be divisive, and usually with no cause whatsoever other than the fact that someone had the misfortune to harbor an opinion that differs from his. Do you call him on that stuff, eh? Have you ever done one thing to reign him in? So, you get one person using one (mildly) rude term in connection with mr. teckstud and that causes you to spring into action all of a sudden, while the egregious behavior that has gone before has not?
This guy is rude, condescending, combative, and generally dismissive and hostile to pretty much everyone else who has the temerity to post here. So, you can 'infract' me for saying what many others here feel, while continuing to do nothing about the rude, obnoxious behavior of the teckstud, if you want, but that does nothing to address the real issue.
Good modedratin'!
But with this post, you only have a total of 51. That's not a good start.
And it certainly was uncalled for, as he hadn't attacked you.
No excuse therefor.
I have oversight and management of close to 5,000 mobile devices (yes even some iPhones) and the difference in how one manages these devices is night and day. With BES you have total control and audit capabilities and WM / iPhone you are limited to a handful of policies and IIS logs to parse out via powershell to get information. The fact that a rush of companies are now making "enterprise" backend systems for iPhone only shows how much demand there is for that type of management (where it's required). Good, Kace, Trust Digital, Sybase etc. Which goes against all the arguements that iPhone is cheaper. The TCO is actually higher then the CAL cost for BES and in many cases Blackberry are free to little cost due to volume. iPhone is more expensive with less management in the long run.
OS 3.0 brought some needed things the previous calendar functionality was half baked and at least functions now. Still no way to do device level encryption which is now a state regulation many companies need to adhere to. This alone prevents iPhone adoption.
Another point brought up many times is personal liable devices being supported. I'm sorry but in most corporations that have said security / regulations concerns this will not happen. Personal liable while may save you some CAL cost, you are giving up a ton and STILL have to worry about discovery on the device is it is ever required. Just last year we had an executive arrested and without the BB would not have the proper audit trail via SMS to provide the investigation. This isn't just about you have some cool gadget in your pocket that has an app for that. Mobility is a platform now and needs proper oversight.
Hosted Exchange is another interesting concept and can save smaller companies a BOAT load of budget but .. you often have add on costs to provide BES, email retention, etc so your only saving on employee and server hardware. At the end of the day most companies just want to control their own email.
I've met frequently with Apple and have given them the big items to get some real enterprise support:
dump iTunes - no one wants to have to manage it or deal with the personal usage issues
device level encryption - something user controlled that can be disabled is not ideal
application deployment - corporations don't want to bother with Appstore for home grown apps developed for internal usage. This should all be OTA delivery.
roadmap - I need to plan 6/12/24 where I am going, what my budget will look like. I cannot wait until Apple releases information the day the product / update comes out.
Sorry so long but many here are USERS and don't live the side of this I do.
I just read through all the posts on this and there is some intresting discussion points. The simple fact is for those corporations that have to adhere to regulations e.g. financial / insurance etc - Apple has a ways to go to equal what RIM provides via Blackberry Enterprise Server (BES).
I have oversight and management of close to 5,000 mobile devices (yes even some iPhones) and the difference in how one manages these devices is night and day. With BES you have total control and audit capabilities and WM / iPhone you are limited to a handful of policies and IIS logs to parse out via powershell to get information. The fact that a rush of companies are now making "enterprise" backend systems for iPhone only shows how much demand there is for that type of management (where it's required). Good, Kace, Trust Digital, Sybase etc. Which goes against all the arguements that iPhone is cheaper. The TCO is actually higher then the CAL cost for BES and in many cases Blackberry are free to little cost due to volume. iPhone is more expensive with less management in the long run.
OS 3.0 brought some needed things the previous calendar functionality was half baked and at least functions now. Still no way to do device level encryption which is now a state regulation many companies need to adhere to. This alone prevents iPhone adoption.
Another point brought up many times is personal liable devices being supported. I'm sorry but in most corporations that have said security / regulations concerns this will not happen. Personal liable while may save you some CAL cost, you are giving up a ton and STILL have to worry about discovery on the device is it is ever required. Just last year we had an executive arrested and without the BB would not have the proper audit trail via SMS to provide the investigation. This isn't just about you have some cool gadget in your pocket that has an app for that. Mobility is a platform now and needs proper oversight.
Hosted Exchange is another interesting concept and can save smaller companies a BOAT load of budget but .. you often have add on costs to provide BES, email retention, etc so your only saving on employee and server hardware. At the end of the day most companies just want to control their own email.
I've met frequently with Apple and have given them the big items to get some real enterprise support:
dump iTunes - no one wants to have to manage it or deal with the personal usage issues
device level encryption - something user controlled that can be disabled is not ideal
application deployment - corporations don't want to bother with Appstore for home grown apps developed for internal usage. This should all be OTA delivery.
roadmap - I need to plan 6/12/24 where I am going, what my budget will look like. I cannot wait until Apple releases information the day the product / update comes out.
Sorry so long but many here are USERS and don't live the side of this I do.
Those are all good points, but how do you respond to the fact that more than a few large companies have already adopted the iPhone, some going back to the first gen. model with OS ver. 1?
Not evey company has all of those needs obviously, or this wouldn't have happened.
It's also interesting that J D Power found that the iPhone was much preferred by business people who use cell phones, to the Blackberry. It wasn't even a close call. The BB was beaten handily in every category.
When you speak of costs, you are likely correct for those companies whose needs match your own, but as it seems that not every company has all of those needs, their costs could be much less.
It's not a simple slam dunk either way.
Keep it up, Apple!
But with this post, you only have a total of 51. That's not a good start.
And it certainly was uncalled for, as he hadn't attacked you.
No excuse therefor.
So did you give yourself a point for calling that guy a name?
So did you give yourself a point for calling that guy a name?
Where was this name calling again?
So did you give yourself a point for calling that guy a name?
What are you talking about?
What are you talking about?
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...8&postcount=88
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...6&postcount=63
I suppose that disparingly calling a guy "Steve's little soldier" is technically not as bad than calling someone a <insert your favorite **** here>. But it is STILL a personal attack and you sluffed it off. Worse, the guy wasn't even disrespectful to you. He wrote "Mel, I appreciate a lot of what you say in these forums, but sometimes your posts are conjecture not supported by facts, even though you often require others to supply the facts before you will accept what they have to say."
When I get a point from Lundy (which I haven't) I can be sure it's fair. He leaves no opportunity for himself to make a personal attack by simply not posting in a forum he mods heavily. And he uses the banstick reasonably heavily. Mostly because some participants can't seem to not cross the line when the other guy moons them from the other side.
Baffling...
It seems like the word "exchange" should be appearing more frequently in this thread.
Apple's foray into the enterprise market is completely based upon exchange support.
Yes, it should.
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...8&postcount=88
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...6&postcount=63
I suppose that disparingly calling a guy "Steve's little soldier" is technically not as bad than calling someone a <insert your favorite **** here>. But it is STILL a personal attack and you sluffed it off. Worse, the guy wasn't even disrespectful to you. He wrote "Mel, I appreciate a lot of what you say in these forums, but sometimes your posts are conjecture not supported by facts, even though you often require others to supply the facts before you will accept what they have to say."
When I get a point from Lundy (which I haven't) I can be sure it's fair. He leaves no opportunity for himself to make a personal attack by simply not posting in a forum he mods heavily. And he uses the banstick reasonably heavily. Mostly because some participants can't seem to not cross the line when the other guy moons them from the other side.
When I accepted this "job", I made it quite clear that if I needed to change my posting style, I couldn't accept it.
I'm more than fair with people, and for you to be fair, you would have to admit that. Coming from one who has used some of the worst cursing against me, numerous times, without my asking for retaliation from the mods or admins (and also against some others), I find it strange that now you would act as as someone who objects to very mild statements on my part.
I haven't yet given a single person a point.
If you have a problem, post me privately.