Apple has Psystar's lawsuit stay lifted; Palm Pre unhurt by iPhone

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 94
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,530member
    Anyway, the point is that the iPhone's sales have been at least five times, maybe ten times that of the Pre here in the States, and that's the real point.



    I really was expecting better sales for the Pre, and worse ones for the iPhone.



    Can't always get what we expect.



    The shortage thing for the Pre is strange though. Thats not a heck of a lot of phones for a manufacturer to make. Why would they have had shortages? Assuming, of course, that it wasn't deliberate. One reason I read from someone in the industry was that possibly Palm didn't have the bucks for a larger initial run. But it seems to me that Sprint could have helped out there.
  • Reply 22 of 94
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,530member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I guess I wish for Palm to survive but I have no stake in it either way, so I?m not too sure about that. I think I?m just having a Dvorakian day.



    Yes, that article is a lark.
  • Reply 23 of 94
    davidtdavidt Posts: 112member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by miketothep View Post


    I am choosing the Pre over the iPhone for mainly one reason... a real keyboard. I use my phone for email and text messaging a lot and the virtual keyboard is just too slow and unreliable (yes I have tried it... it pails in comparison to physical keys).



    one of yesterday's threads concerned itself with the iphone keyboard, i think the general consensus is that after a little practice the virtual keyboard is just a good as a physical keyboard. i for one send a lot of mails every day from my iphone, typing just as fast as i did on a physical kb, maybe even faster since my thumbs fly over the keys, no need to press anything ince you mastered the amount of "touch" required to activate a key



    indeed almost as fast as on a full size laptop keyboard

    the only slowdown takes place when i want to copy, cut or paste. that is of course faster on a full size keyboard.



    re copy paste: i am so very happy that we have this now, this was such a major pain before, writing address on bits of paper, then typing them into google maps etc. i am truly delighted with the copy paste function on the iphone

    -D
  • Reply 24 of 94
    tofinotofino Posts: 697member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post




    snip



    The performance is such that the carrier's CFO says he hasn't seen "any big change" since the 3GS was released and believes that the Pre is both drawing in converts from rivals as well as preventing existing customers from jumping ship. Sprint sorely needs a halo device like the Pre as it has continued to lose millions of customers due to a combination of its poor reputation for customer service and a lackluster collection of handsets.



    is palm saying anything?

    or did they learn from the debacle when they issued a press release to distance themselves from the drivel spewed by one of their big investors:



    ?You know the beautiful thing: June 29, 2009, is the two- year anniversary of the first shipment of the iPhone. Not one of those people will still be using an iPhone a month later.?
  • Reply 25 of 94
    quinneyquinney Posts: 2,528member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Anyway, the point is that the iPhone's sales have been at least five times, maybe ten times that of the Pre here in the States, and that's the real point.



    I really was expecting better sales for the Pre, and worse ones for the iPhone.



    Can't always get what we expect.



    The shortage thing for the Pre is strange though. Thats not a heck of a lot of phones for a manufacturer to make. Why would they have had shortages? Assuming, of course, that it wasn't deliberate. One reason I read from someone in the industry was that possibly Palm didn't have the bucks for a larger initial run. But it seems to me that Sprint could have helped out there.



    Now that manufacturers, as well as Palm and Sprint, have seen some sales, they probably will

    have the confidence to proceed with larger orders.
  • Reply 26 of 94
    lochiaslochias Posts: 83member
    In the reference that you cite (source), the number 86.6 M is Verizon, not AT&T, which is 78.2.







    [QUOTE=solipsism;1439076]I think it?s really right around 50%. According to March 2009 subscriber numbers AT&T had 86.6M to Sprint?s 49.1M (
  • Reply 27 of 94
    zorinlynxzorinlynx Posts: 170member
    I love my Palm Pre; it's finally what I've been looking for in a phone without having to sell my soul to AT&T.



    Yep, AT&T is the main reason I don't have an iPhone. I love the device; it's a great phone! But the crappy data network and expensive service means I've stayed away.



    I hope the iPhone eventually comes to other carriers and the Pre as well. This whole concept of a phone being completely locked down to one carrier is hurting the industry and making things frustrating for those of us who like a specific phone but hate the carrier it's on.



    I'm also glad the iPhone finally has real competition in the Pre, and to a lesser extent, Android.
  • Reply 28 of 94
    kolchakkolchak Posts: 1,398member
    The big question is whether the Pre can sustain its sales figures. If I'm reading this right, they're saying it sold about 50,000 the first weekend then another 50,000 through the rest of the week. So it looks like there are a lot of early adopters. A lot depends on who's left after all these people have bought their Pres. Will sales flatten out, decline slowly or go into a steep nosedive?



    Me, I'm waiting for the Verizon LTE iPhone. With tethering. No way in Hell I'll ever deal with AT&T again.
  • Reply 29 of 94
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,757member
    No, perhaps the iPhone hasn't hurt the Pre.



    But has the Pre done enough to save Palm and Sprint? That's a different issue entirely.



    We'll see.
  • Reply 30 of 94
    penchantedpenchanted Posts: 1,070member
    Sprint's predicament is summed up pretty well in the following:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/24/te...er=rss&emc=rss

    Quote:

    Mr. Coster estimates that Palm has shipped close to 180,000 devices in the two weeks since the product first went on sale and could reach as many as 2.5 million in the fiscal year ending in May 2010. But that would not be enough to make the company profitable, he said.



    The article discusses several other aspects of Palm's challenge including building out their App Catalog.
  • Reply 31 of 94
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by davidT View Post


    one of yesterday's threads concerned itself with the iphone keyboard, i think the general consensus is that after a little practice the virtual keyboard is just a good as a physical keyboard. i for one send a lot of mails every day from my iphone, typing just as fast as i did on a physical kb, maybe even faster since my thumbs fly over the keys, no need to press anything ince you mastered the amount of "touch" required to activate a key



    indeed almost as fast as on a full size laptop keyboard

    the only slowdown takes place when i want to copy, cut or paste. that is of course faster on a full size keyboard.



    -D



    I think that applies to *only* those with tiny fingers. I cannot type on my iPhone like I did with my LG. I have to hunt and peck because I cannot use my thumbs. I'm a touch typist, too, so it isn't due to lack of skill in typing. My thumbs are just too big to really be quick on an iPhone. I end up sending nonsense to people. And yes, I'm practiced. I've had my iPhone for over a year now.



    So, no, the virtual keyboard isn't as good as a real one in any way to me. It's the only thing I dislike about my phone. If Apple could find a way to integrate a usable physical keyboard, I'd be grateful.
  • Reply 32 of 94
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,217member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Neruda View Post


    Psystar is, by all accounts, broke, so Apple's motive in getting the stay lifted is not about a desire to get monetary damages. A win in this case will establish a precedent which will be more valuable (as a potential deterrent to others ) then any damage award at this point.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post


    Smack one mole, another pops up elsewhere.



    this is why the case needs to go through. Apple is in the right (according to the courts) on the tying issue, so copyright, DCMA etc is all that is left. they win this case and even if they don't get a dime from Psystar they can shut the company down on Hackintoshs and pave the way to go after anyone else that tries it with a solid offense. No one can claim they didn't know they couldn't do it thanks to all the press.



    Quote:

    Apple needs to address the lower margin market it's ignoring with a low cost, expandable tower.



    says you. but you don't run Apple so don't hold your breath.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    About Pre sales:



    Considering the size of the sales, which is to say, fairly small, who is to say that initial sales weren't depressed by the news of the new iPhones arriving a week later?.



    actually I think stock shortages are the answer.



    the fact is that there are areas of the country where ATT coverage blows but Sprint is kicking butt. so Sprint has all the subscribers. those folks aren't even going to consider an iPhone until they can get it on Sprint or ATT expands A LOT.



    when/if we get to the point that you can get an iphone on any carrier then the real battle of the smart phones will begin.
  • Reply 33 of 94
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post




    Palm Pre still selling out despite iPhone



    While doubts have existed that Palm would continue enjoying brisk sales of its multi-touch Pre smartphone an investor's conference, adding that Sprint was "catching up."



    Analysts had originally predicted that about 50,000 Palm Pres were sold on its launch weekend early this month, or just one twentieth Apple's 1 million iPhone 3GS units sold two weeks later. Further estimates, however, had Sprint doubling its total sales count in less than a week.




    the mobile phone market proves that capitalism and competition still works. Apple's success spur others to TRY make better handsets, i.e. Storm. So America IS NOT falling in to socialism.
  • Reply 34 of 94
    davidtdavidt Posts: 112member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by azcodemonkey View Post


    I think that applies to *only* those with tiny fingers. I cannot type on my iPhone like I did with my LG.



    i know what you are saying, though i would say my thumbs are far from "tiny".



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by azcodemonkey View Post


    I have to hunt and peck because I cannot use my thumbs. (...). My thumbs are just too big to really be quick on an iPhone.



    Had a chance to try the landscape mode yet ? maybe that might help.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by azcodemonkey View Post


    . If Apple could find a way to integrate a usable physical keyboard, I'd be grateful.



    hmmm, I somehow doubt they will, since it would 'destroy' the sleek design they seem very pleased with now, and I presume they would rather avoid adding another element (with hinges etc)



    good luck

    -D
  • Reply 35 of 94
    daniel0418daniel0418 Posts: 122member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I'm more concerned about the two other companies operating outside of the States, esp. the one in Russia.



    About Pre sales:



    Considering the size of the sales, which is to say, fairly small, who is to say that initial sales weren't depressed by the news of the new iPhones arriving a week later?



    If so, then sales are what they are because of that.



    First we saw estimates of weekend sales of between 50,000 and 100,000, then we saw estimates of full week sales of between 90,000 and 100,000. That doesn't seem as though sales were where they had hoped they would be, but rather were at the bottom of the estimates.



    Even though iPhone sales were in 8 countries, at least half of the sales were likely within the US, going by past results. If so, then Apple had 10 times the sales in the US than Palm that first weekend. That doesn't sound so impressive for Palm, and I don't know why it's being written up in various places as though it is. Even if you account for the greater size of AT&Ts' base, Apple has over seven times the sales per million customers.



    For such a "hot" phone, the sales don't seem all that great.



    While we all know they had shortages, so did Apple.



    Well first of all. The number 100,000 was for the first weekend. Not only that but sprint said even after the launch of the 3gs sales have not been phased... Its the 23rd now.. If this is true we are talking 270,000 already sold give or take. Now comparing the number 100,000 to iphones 1,000,000 divided by 8 is 125,000.... So lets say USA sold the most giving it about 300,000 sales... Being on the largest network with the already most popular phone in the world... Compared to the pre on a much smaller carrier with a brand new phone not many have heard of... I would say the pre sales are pretty damn good in comparison.
  • Reply 36 of 94
    davidtdavidt Posts: 112member
    Sorry for being slightly off-topic, but: does anybody know whether there is a logic to the name "pre" ?



    is there a linguistic association I am missing with this product name?



    To me it sounds a little like "Beta", but that is not what they were thinking I'm sure.



    Will the next version be called: "Palm Now" and the third : Palm Post"?



    just wondering,

    -D
  • Reply 37 of 94
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,530member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by quinney View Post


    Now that manufacturers, as well as Palm and Sprint, have seen some sales, they probably will

    have the confidence to proceed with larger orders.



    But it still seems so odd that in their big opening, they would be cautious.



    After all, if they didn't sell 200,000 phones in the first weekend, or even the first week, and they didn't, they would still sell these phone over the next couple of weeks to a month. And by having them, they wouldn't have had shortages, and their numbers would have been somewhat better. That is, if they really did have shortages, which I'm beginning to doubt, as they seemed to have enough for the entire week after claiming shortages for the weekend. It's not likely they suddenly got them in and distributed in one day.



    I suspect they had a good number in their warehouses around the country.
  • Reply 38 of 94
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,530member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Daniel0418 View Post


    Well first of all. The number 100,000 was for the first weekend. Not only that but sprint said even after the launch of the 3gs sales have not been phased... Its the 23rd now.. If this is true we are talking 270,000 already sold give or take. Now comparing the number 100,000 to iphones 1,000,000 divided by 8 is 125,000.... So lets say USA sold the most giving it about 300,000 sales... Being on the largest network with the already most popular phone in the world... Compared to the pre on a much smaller carrier with a brand new phone not many have heard of... I would say the pre sales are pretty damn good in comparison.



    No, its not. The new estimates are that they sold 50,000 for the weekend, and 90,000 to 100,000 for the entire week, including the weekend.



    http://www.reuters.com/article/techn...55F6J620090616



    I doubt very much that they've sold more than 150,000 together by now, maybe less.



    Your numbers for the iPhone are screwy as well. At least half of the iPhones sales are in the US right now with those 8 countries, maybe more. Did you look to see which countries they were, and the population sizes? You should.
  • Reply 39 of 94
    davidtdavidt Posts: 112member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    But it still seems so odd that in their big opening, they would be cautious.



    After all, if they didn't sell 200,000 phones in the first weekend, or even the first week, and they didn't, they would still sell these phone over the next couple of weeks to a month. And by having them, they wouldn't have had shortages, and their numbers would have been somewhat better. That is, if they really did have shortages, which I'm beginning to doubt, as they seemed to have enough for the entire week after claiming shortages for the weekend. It's not likely they suddenly got them in and distributed in one day.



    I suspect they had a good number in their warehouses around the country.



    Well, we'll see how things go when they release it in Europe, maybe they'll use the same launch strategy, maybe not. Should shed some light on the situation.
  • Reply 40 of 94
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,530member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by davidT View Post


    Well, we'll see how things go when they release it in Europe, maybe they'll use the same launch strategy, maybe not. Should shed some light on the situation.



    I don't remember if Palms have been popular there or not. That would matter too.
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