Why are you people so adverse to what green peace is trying to achieve? Yeah, we may have our sexy macs now, but give it 50 years and it'll be a different world and we need to do something now, either way, what harm does being more environmentally responsible do, none, but it inevitably cleans up the environment, which benefits every single one of us.
I can just see all you guys saying you'd 'beat up greenpeace', probably either frail geeks who don't leave the house or fat, rich out of touch business people, wake up to what's around you, the world isn't your own private sanctuary.
Greenpeace, you are true heros, much more than those who do fu*k all from their armchairs/computer desks.
oh? You know, it strikes me that a parallel can be drawn between Greenpeace and Amway. They both attract people by espousing a good cause, but then proceed to do something inconsistent with that cause.
Let's suppose that Apple, and even, say 30% of the western computer industry went green... First, what does that mean, in terms of REDUCTION OF TOXIC WASTE AS A PERCENTAGE OF WORLD PRODUCTION?
Second, HOW MUCH OF AN IMPACT, IN THE SHORT AND LONG TERM, DOES THAT HAVE ON HUMAN WELLBEING?
My understanding, based only on some discussions with knowlegable people, rather than actual research, is that the primary environmental threat facing the world right now is Carbon Dioxide production. As industry increases, we keep pumping out more and more. What is GP doing to PROCESS the carbon dioxide back into oxygen?
I suspect that there are many more productive ways to use their time and money than by throwing toxic green paint on the storefronts of popular companies. Go for impact, not appearances, guys.
I've always been impressed by the difference that can be seen between the results of a philanthropist, or a properly directed NPO, versus that of a sabre rattling part time nuisance.
A figurehead who backs up words with action (think Cloony here) is a far more effective means of public relations than individuals getting themselves arrested. And it screws up your life less.
Greenpeace will be handing out thousands of flyers, made from paper, made from trees. Thanks guys! Forgot to add that they also breath in 02 and exhale C02 which really isn't helping the current erosion of the ozone layer.
when will these poor bastards realize that no one is paying any attention to them?!
No...the two poor bastards with the projector are doing this to meet eco-chicks...hey, I did clinic defense for a couple months for the same reason but had an epiphany that those chicks were usually psychos and not worth the hassle anyway.
Perhaps I'm just a cynic...but IMHO there are only three types of guys in those kind of things: the young and naive guys who are true believers who are the whack jobs you need to watch out for, the guys there to meet chicks (for which typically there is a nice ratio) who are the majority that eventually either hooks up or moves on or the con-artists there for power or money who pretty much sit at the top (or trying to move up the ladder) using group 1 to acquire money, power or both.
Okay, and one or two oldtimer true believers that eventually get cynical and bitter about group 3.
nothing like a bit of ignorance to lighten up the day.
But in all honesty i am truly suprised at the lack of mature replies to what greenpeace wants to achieve. But it's cool to be anti-establishment when the world accepts we need to change, isn't it?
nothing like a bit of ignorance to lighten up the day.
But in all honesty i am truly suprised at the lack of mature replies to what greenpeace wants to achieve. But it's cool to be anti-establishment when the world accepts we need to change, isn't it?
Just pick on everyone equally. I don't personally don't believe someone is responsible for something after they sell and the buyer is threw with it. That is a very sticky issue.
The assholes got us talking about how much we hate greenpeace - how does that help the environment one iota?
Many of the post in this forum are whining about GP for sure. But there's also many saying that we need to address the environmental issue as well. So, I'm glad we're talking.
And while we're at it! Seeing as we're all so darn smart Mac users. How would you address the environmental issue? Come up with something better than GP, eh?!?!
I really want a more environmentally friendlIER Mac. And Apple can start off by dropping polystyrene and going with cardboard for packaging!
Many of the post in this forum are whining about GP for sure. But there's also many saying that we need to address the environmental issue as well. So, I'm glad we're talking.
And while we're at it! Seeing as we're all so darn smart Mac users. How would you address the environmental issue? Come up with something better than GP, eh?!?!
I really want a more environmentally friendlIER Mac. And Apple can start off by dropping polystyrene and going with cardboard for packaging!
Cheers Daniel
Hmm. They could do that. Consider that cardboard causes deforestation (yeah, and new plantings in responsible areas), and diminishes the earths ability to take care of CO2, which is produced in order to change the tree into woodpulp, into cardboard.
Polystyrene is made by taking fermented dinosaur poo (oil) from the earth, converts it into a polymer, and takes a HECK of a lot less weight. It's mostly air. Lots of air, inside of polystyrene bubbles. plus, it can easily be broken down with a little bit of gasoline (it disolves). Then you can use the resulting goop as napalm to throw on fiendinsh manufacturers like Apple. Just add green dye first.
non-biodegradables aren't the problem, I think. After all, METAL is non-biodegradable. STONE is non-biodegradable. Kinda. Anyway, you get the point. A better solution than abandoning the wonderfully usefull materials we have developed, is just be consistent in putting them in one place, either one material specific landfill, or recycling. I suspect the day is approaching when we will begin mining landfills, and it would sure be usefull to have them pre-separated.
As to what to do.... we have a heck of a lot of ocean that is basically wasted surface area. Might it be beneficial to set up solar cell coated platforms en-masse, and use the resulting energy to reprocess CO2 into carbon and oxygen?
Or set up Algae farms to do the same thing.
Personally, I would rather see GP set the example by initiating projects which provide solutions, rather than offensive and futile prevention politicing.
One of the keys to the world economy seems to me to be that is someone gets paid to do it, they will do it gladly, but if no one gets paid to do it, no one (generally speaking of course) will give a rats ass. That's just the way the economy works. People like progress more than restraint. So find some way to commercialize environmental repair. Provides jobs, people will do it because they want to eat, and they will feel good about it because it also is good in more esoteric ways. Warm fuzzy type of thing.
Humans are very basic creatures in one particular sense: They won'd do something that they don't want to do. Period. We can provide positive motivation, such as, "Work on this CO2 elimination project, and I'll give you money so you can eat," or negative reinforcement, such as, "Oh, you bad person! You're killing the foliage!!" As we all know, from the wonderfully cliched phrase, "A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still." (BTW, don't make me pull out the GenderNeutral Whiffle Bat and beat you with it on that one. You get the point.)
Find what motivates people, and use it. Elicit a strong, burning desire for them to take the action that you desire. Don't guilt trip. It makes people hate you, and themselves, and that drives up the national suicide rate! Shame on you for killing people! ;-D
<Dons Non-Toxic, Biodegradable Flame Retardant Long-Johns. Throws the shrink wrap on the ground.>
Have at me! :-P
*EDIT* Wow, that's a heck of a lot of tyops and Grammar errors! I'll leave em in just fer fun!
...In America we also have slander and libel laws, product disparagement laws, defamation laws, and harassment laws...
Note that in those types of cases, it is, I believe, usually a CIVIL matter, and not a criminal one. From a 'put you in prison' standpoint, almost anything goes. But you better be ready to pay out the ass for being one.
Thank goodness I just changed the motor oil in my car today. As a tribute to GreenPeace, I will pour this oil in the little creek that runs behind my house.
Everytime GreenPeace does some unsubstantial Stunt against Apple, I will do some Substantial harm to the environment.
Ban me for heresy, I don't care, the motor oil will still be in the water!
That is just idiotic and irresponsible. I'm sure you're joking but damaging the environment for an extreme lobbying group's actions is hardly justified.
Many of the post in this forum are whining about GP for sure. But there's also many saying that we need to address the environmental issue as well. So, I'm glad we're talking.
And while we're at it! Seeing as we're all so darn smart Mac users. How would you address the environmental issue? Come up with something better than GP, eh?!?!
I really want a more environmentally friendlIER Mac. And Apple can start off by dropping polystyrene and going with cardboard for packaging!
Cheers Daniel
Get rid of greenpeace - this will actually do a lot to help the environment. As a previous poster mentioned, most of their policies actually hurt the environment, as well as cause death and destruction in the 3rd world (anti-nuclear, anti-genetically modified foods, anti-pesticides that kill malaria, etc)
My uncle is in the EPA and his dad, my grandfather was poisoned and killed from toxic chemicals used in GE manufacturing plants, my family has never bought a GE appliance since, anyway my uncle hates greenpeace and believes that they only get people to mock and halt environmental efforts that actually help, unlike most of greenpeace demands. I mean come on, if he hates greenpeace there has to be something wrong there. I?m just worried that some people will actually not buy an apple product and buy from another company because of these tree huggers in front of the store. Anyone who?s informed about greenpeace will not care at all but most people aren't informed... Anyone think apple will do anything to counter these protests (not by changing any policies)?
I am sorry about your grandfather. But it's not so strange somebody working at the EPA doesnt like Greenpeace. I personally don't even believe the EPA really cares for the environment. They think it is not a problem that our electronics waste full of toxics is being dumped in China and other poor countries. They think nucleair energy is clean, and about their ranking list of elektronics companies. What they ask from the companies is not going much further then what is already legislation in Europe. As far as the EPA is concerned Apple, Dell, Sony etc. can just keep on using toxics...
If then Greenpeace comes along and shows what is really necessary to do to improve our environment, you don't like that as EPA employee I reckon....
Comments
Why are you people so adverse to what green peace is trying to achieve? Yeah, we may have our sexy macs now, but give it 50 years and it'll be a different world and we need to do something now, either way, what harm does being more environmentally responsible do, none, but it inevitably cleans up the environment, which benefits every single one of us.
I can just see all you guys saying you'd 'beat up greenpeace', probably either frail geeks who don't leave the house or fat, rich out of touch business people, wake up to what's around you, the world isn't your own private sanctuary.
Greenpeace, you are true heros, much more than those who do fu*k all from their armchairs/computer desks.
oh? You know, it strikes me that a parallel can be drawn between Greenpeace and Amway. They both attract people by espousing a good cause, but then proceed to do something inconsistent with that cause.
Let's suppose that Apple, and even, say 30% of the western computer industry went green... First, what does that mean, in terms of REDUCTION OF TOXIC WASTE AS A PERCENTAGE OF WORLD PRODUCTION?
Second, HOW MUCH OF AN IMPACT, IN THE SHORT AND LONG TERM, DOES THAT HAVE ON HUMAN WELLBEING?
My understanding, based only on some discussions with knowlegable people, rather than actual research, is that the primary environmental threat facing the world right now is Carbon Dioxide production. As industry increases, we keep pumping out more and more. What is GP doing to PROCESS the carbon dioxide back into oxygen?
I suspect that there are many more productive ways to use their time and money than by throwing toxic green paint on the storefronts of popular companies. Go for impact, not appearances, guys.
I've always been impressed by the difference that can be seen between the results of a philanthropist, or a properly directed NPO, versus that of a sabre rattling part time nuisance.
A figurehead who backs up words with action (think Cloony here) is a far more effective means of public relations than individuals getting themselves arrested. And it screws up your life less.
<dons Flame Retardant undies>
Ok, fire away.
<dons Flame Retardant undies>
Ok, fire away.
Are they Non Toxic? *Raises Flamethrower*
Sebastian
BUT!... BUT!... You (Greenpeace) got us talking!
The assholes got us talking about how much we hate greenpeace - how does that help the environment one iota?
I expect Greenpeace will be sued not by Apple but by Apple Corps. Sir Paul will not like this. No, not one bit.
You surely mean "not one byte".... I mean, "bite."
(Twiddling my thumbs waiting for noon Eastern).
Greenpeace is the PETA of the environmental world.
How true. How terribly, improbably, but actually true.
when will these poor bastards realize that no one is paying any attention to them?!
No...the two poor bastards with the projector are doing this to meet eco-chicks...hey, I did clinic defense for a couple months for the same reason but had an epiphany that those chicks were usually psychos and not worth the hassle anyway.
Perhaps I'm just a cynic...but IMHO there are only three types of guys in those kind of things: the young and naive guys who are true believers who are the whack jobs you need to watch out for, the guys there to meet chicks (for which typically there is a nice ratio) who are the majority that eventually either hooks up or moves on or the con-artists there for power or money who pretty much sit at the top (or trying to move up the ladder) using group 1 to acquire money, power or both.
Okay, and one or two oldtimer true believers that eventually get cynical and bitter about group 3.
Vinea
Dude, don't mess with PETA.
People for the eating of tasty animals?
I recycled mine 8)
Sebastian
I wiped my ass with mine.
But in all honesty i am truly suprised at the lack of mature replies to what greenpeace wants to achieve. But it's cool to be anti-establishment when the world accepts we need to change, isn't it?
nothing like a bit of ignorance to lighten up the day.
But in all honesty i am truly suprised at the lack of mature replies to what greenpeace wants to achieve. But it's cool to be anti-establishment when the world accepts we need to change, isn't it?
Just pick on everyone equally. I don't personally don't believe someone is responsible for something after they sell and the buyer is threw with it. That is a very sticky issue.
The assholes got us talking about how much we hate greenpeace - how does that help the environment one iota?
Many of the post in this forum are whining about GP for sure. But there's also many saying that we need to address the environmental issue as well. So, I'm glad we're talking.
And while we're at it! Seeing as we're all so darn smart Mac users. How would you address the environmental issue? Come up with something better than GP, eh?!?!
I really want a more environmentally friendlIER Mac. And Apple can start off by dropping polystyrene and going with cardboard for packaging!
Cheers Daniel
I wiped my ass with mine.
Many of the post in this forum are whining about GP for sure. But there's also many saying that we need to address the environmental issue as well. So, I'm glad we're talking.
And while we're at it! Seeing as we're all so darn smart Mac users. How would you address the environmental issue? Come up with something better than GP, eh?!?!
I really want a more environmentally friendlIER Mac. And Apple can start off by dropping polystyrene and going with cardboard for packaging!
Cheers Daniel
Hmm. They could do that. Consider that cardboard causes deforestation (yeah, and new plantings in responsible areas), and diminishes the earths ability to take care of CO2, which is produced in order to change the tree into woodpulp, into cardboard.
Polystyrene is made by taking fermented dinosaur poo (oil) from the earth, converts it into a polymer, and takes a HECK of a lot less weight. It's mostly air. Lots of air, inside of polystyrene bubbles. plus, it can easily be broken down with a little bit of gasoline (it disolves). Then you can use the resulting goop as napalm to throw on fiendinsh manufacturers like Apple. Just add green dye first.
non-biodegradables aren't the problem, I think. After all, METAL is non-biodegradable. STONE is non-biodegradable. Kinda. Anyway, you get the point. A better solution than abandoning the wonderfully usefull materials we have developed, is just be consistent in putting them in one place, either one material specific landfill, or recycling. I suspect the day is approaching when we will begin mining landfills, and it would sure be usefull to have them pre-separated.
As to what to do.... we have a heck of a lot of ocean that is basically wasted surface area. Might it be beneficial to set up solar cell coated platforms en-masse, and use the resulting energy to reprocess CO2 into carbon and oxygen?
Or set up Algae farms to do the same thing.
Personally, I would rather see GP set the example by initiating projects which provide solutions, rather than offensive and futile prevention politicing.
One of the keys to the world economy seems to me to be that is someone gets paid to do it, they will do it gladly, but if no one gets paid to do it, no one (generally speaking of course) will give a rats ass. That's just the way the economy works. People like progress more than restraint. So find some way to commercialize environmental repair. Provides jobs, people will do it because they want to eat, and they will feel good about it because it also is good in more esoteric ways. Warm fuzzy type of thing.
Humans are very basic creatures in one particular sense: They won'd do something that they don't want to do. Period. We can provide positive motivation, such as, "Work on this CO2 elimination project, and I'll give you money so you can eat," or negative reinforcement, such as, "Oh, you bad person! You're killing the foliage!!" As we all know, from the wonderfully cliched phrase, "A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still." (BTW, don't make me pull out the GenderNeutral Whiffle Bat and beat you with it on that one. You get the point.)
Find what motivates people, and use it. Elicit a strong, burning desire for them to take the action that you desire. Don't guilt trip. It makes people hate you, and themselves, and that drives up the national suicide rate! Shame on you for killing people! ;-D
<Dons Non-Toxic, Biodegradable Flame Retardant Long-Johns. Throws the shrink wrap on the ground.>
Have at me! :-P
*EDIT* Wow, that's a heck of a lot of tyops and Grammar errors!
...In America we also have slander and libel laws, product disparagement laws, defamation laws, and harassment laws...
Note that in those types of cases, it is, I believe, usually a CIVIL matter, and not a criminal one. From a 'put you in prison' standpoint, almost anything goes. But you better be ready to pay out the ass for being one.
Thank goodness I just changed the motor oil in my car today. As a tribute to GreenPeace, I will pour this oil in the little creek that runs behind my house.
Everytime GreenPeace does some unsubstantial Stunt against Apple, I will do some Substantial harm to the environment.
Ban me for heresy, I don't care, the motor oil will still be in the water!
That is just idiotic and irresponsible. I'm sure you're joking but damaging the environment for an extreme lobbying group's actions is hardly justified.
I really want a more environmentally friendlIER Mac. And Apple can start off by dropping polystyrene and going with cardboard for packaging!
Don't we all! Maybe Apple should use card for the new iPod packaging rather than plastic.
Many of the post in this forum are whining about GP for sure. But there's also many saying that we need to address the environmental issue as well. So, I'm glad we're talking.
And while we're at it! Seeing as we're all so darn smart Mac users. How would you address the environmental issue? Come up with something better than GP, eh?!?!
I really want a more environmentally friendlIER Mac. And Apple can start off by dropping polystyrene and going with cardboard for packaging!
Cheers Daniel
Get rid of greenpeace - this will actually do a lot to help the environment. As a previous poster mentioned, most of their policies actually hurt the environment, as well as cause death and destruction in the 3rd world (anti-nuclear, anti-genetically modified foods, anti-pesticides that kill malaria, etc)
My uncle is in the EPA and his dad, my grandfather was poisoned and killed from toxic chemicals used in GE manufacturing plants, my family has never bought a GE appliance since, anyway my uncle hates greenpeace and believes that they only get people to mock and halt environmental efforts that actually help, unlike most of greenpeace demands. I mean come on, if he hates greenpeace there has to be something wrong there. I?m just worried that some people will actually not buy an apple product and buy from another company because of these tree huggers in front of the store. Anyone who?s informed about greenpeace will not care at all but most people aren't informed... Anyone think apple will do anything to counter these protests (not by changing any policies)?
I am sorry about your grandfather. But it's not so strange somebody working at the EPA doesnt like Greenpeace. I personally don't even believe the EPA really cares for the environment. They think it is not a problem that our electronics waste full of toxics is being dumped in China and other poor countries. They think nucleair energy is clean, and about their ranking list of elektronics companies. What they ask from the companies is not going much further then what is already legislation in Europe. As far as the EPA is concerned Apple, Dell, Sony etc. can just keep on using toxics...
If then Greenpeace comes along and shows what is really necessary to do to improve our environment, you don't like that as EPA employee I reckon....