Briefly: Vista can't thwart Mac's reign at No. 1 online retailer

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  • Reply 81 of 122
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by IVK View Post


    You obviously didn't read the article linked inside of that article that I mentioned.



    In a situstion like that, where embedded links are important, those links should be posted as well. Otherwise, one doesn't know when to stop following them.
  • Reply 82 of 122
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by IVK View Post


    Linking to an article that discusses the downfalls of Vista, using a beta build as example doesn't exactly make your company look the most mature. It's quite sad and pathetic actually. Especially when if you go read one of his articles about Vista, it's all pro-MS. Why use his old article as a reference to show their obvious dislike for Vista? Use one of the many recent ones, but don't try and convince your consumer that Vista is a bad OS based off of a beta build.



    How about this then?



    In a recent interview, Gates told the interviewer, on, I think it was either MSNBC or CNBC, that Vista is the First OS to have parental controls. Well, that's not even coming close to the truth. He said other things that weren't accurate either.



    The same thing can be said of Ballmer, who constantly makes up figures and numbers in his interviews, such as the one where he said that the Zune had 20% marketshare in December for players $249 and up. It turned out that the number was about 10%, and only for the first week, after that it dropped considerably.



    I doubt that every link on every Apple web page is personally checked by Jobs.
  • Reply 83 of 122
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Linux has a very small marketshare. They may run hundreds of thousands of servers, but that doesn't contribute much to the marketshare. Even if they ran two million, it wouldn't.



    But those machines are a small minority. There were about 70 million computers sold in the US last year, and about 230 million worldwide. As far as percentages go, Linux was a very small part of that, even less than the Mac.



    I give your post a 5 for trolliness, and for lack of understanding the point of the discussion.



    Yeah I lost this image but I still had iSteve's podcast from MacWorld 2007.



  • Reply 84 of 122
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    This really is a very bad report.



    From an software standpoint on Amazon, Vista (and it's many flavors) isn't doing badly. I wish I knew the duration that Amazon uses for its rankings. I suspect to see Vista rise to top of the list, despite the excessive sales of tax accounting software during the next couple months.



    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...107210-7840464
  • Reply 85 of 122
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    This really is a very bad report.



    From an software standpoint on Amazon, Vista (and it's many flavors) isn't doing badly. I wish I knew the duration that Amazon uses for its rankings. I suspect to see Vista rise to top of the list, despite the excessive sales of tax accounting software during the next couple months.



    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...107210-7840464



    I'm not sure what you mean by duration, but the lists are supposed to be updated every hour.
  • Reply 86 of 122
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I'm not sure what you mean by duration, but the lists are supposed to be updated every hour.



    Since the order of the items do not rearrange significantly every hour, I'm certain that the stats are only "updated every hour", not compiled for the previous hour's unit sales.



    How long are the sales accounted for in the stats? For the entire life of the product? For the past week? For the past 30 days? For the past 3 months?



    Using a duration that is too long would result in incorrect results of what is currently popular
    Example: If the stats lasted for an infinite duration, it would take several months of strong 2G iPod Shuffle sales to surpass the overall unit sales of the of the 1G iPod Shuffle, despite the 2G Shuffle's popularity.
    While too short a duration would render the results useless.
    Example: MS could purposely by 10,000 brown Zunes during aselected hour and then their greased-palmed pundits report on the popularity of the brown Zune... with a fancy jpg on the Amazon stats as proof.
    If I were to postulate, I'd have to go with 7 days, 10 days or 14 days as an ideal duration for Amazon's stats.
  • Reply 87 of 122
    ivkivk Posts: 46member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sunilraman View Post


    Um, how many PCs can play DirectX10 games at the moment? nVidia's 8-series is pretty expensive and very power hungry... If you wanna go DirectX10 and Vista sexy you probably need a nice Core2Duo setup with nVidia 8800-something, etc, etc.



    My poor AMD64 Venice 2ghz OC'ed with DirectX9.0c 6600GT 128mb vRAM. Ah... I'll stick to WinXP2Pro and DirectX9.0c gaming... Whenever I get back to my rig about 3000+km away \



    The iMac ATIx1600, nVidia7300 or nvidia7600GT and MacBookPro ATIx1600 is fine for mid-level DirectX9.0c games in WinXP2Pro BootCamp. Saying that Macs can't play DirectX[10] games is of dubious relevance.



    I'm talking down the line, because the prices will drop for those cards by the end of the year and I'm cool with waiting, but I don't see any cards being fit into any models besides the Mac Pro.
  • Reply 88 of 122
    ivkivk Posts: 46member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mkane View Post


    Ok..whatever.....before we run with the article as proof lets set back and watch the market and see what happens.



    Yes I agree that Vista is not very appealing because of DRM and the high system recommendations.



    Now "if" Apple opens up OSX then I can see OSX gaining huge market shares but as it stands right now the PC known as Mac will not topple other PC's that use more cutting edge tech than the Mac PC. Sorry but I don't live in a fantasy world and believe that Apple's current direction with the Mac will top the other PC markets. The fact is other hardware companies like Nvidia, AMD/ATI, DFI, ASUS, ABIT, Creative Labs(X-FI...awesome card), Liteon, HP, etc... are pushing tech farther than ever before and Apple is just lagging behind with sleek looking over priced PC's running an awesome OS. So before you bash the PC understand that the MAC is a PC using lesser hardware and a very nice OS.



    I'm an honest Mac user and fan therefore I accept the facts with out spin. I build PC's and where I work we do not have a single Mac in our company. We use Dell, HP, IBM etc... When I see my employer Wal-Mart direct us in our IT department to roll out Macs then I will say that Macs are rising. We use XP, Unix, and Linux atm. I suspect that Novell will supply our Linux software very soon considering the deal that M$ and Novel made a few months back. Apple could possible work with Wal-Mart but Apple's own worse enemy is Apple therefore Apple must change in order to grow.



    Those TV commercials full of half truths and half lies will not topple M$ hold on the market. Apple should be honest and stop making it seem as Macs are so far superior to PC. All one has to do is compare the hardware to debunk this lie.



    Go ahead and flame me but the facts support my words.



    Before you flame remember that I'm a OSX fan who would love to see OSX opened up. Lets face it Apple will do much better selling gadgets and selling OSX than their current direction with the Mac. Opening OSX would expose Apple to more people thus selling more gadgets for Apple etc....



    Just my thoughts.....so load um up and fire away dishonest Mac fan boys who give every honest Mac user a very bad taste in their mouths!



    I couldn't agree more now that you've put it into perspective, lousy 14 hour days! Coachella in April can't come fast enough, so I can get some relaxation time.
  • Reply 89 of 122
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Since the order of the items do not rearrange significantly every hour, I'm certain that the stats are only "updated every hour", not compiled for the previous hour's unit sales.



    How long are the sales accounted for in the stats? For the entire life of the product? For the past week? For the past 30 days? For the past 3 months?



    Using a duration that is too long would result in incorrect results of what is currently popular
    Example: If the stats lasted for an infinite duration, it would take several months of strong 2G iPod Shuffle sales to surpass the overall unit sales of the of the 1G iPod Shuffle, despite the 2G Shuffle's popularity.
    While too short a duration would render the results useless.
    Example: MS could purposely by 10,000 brown Zunes during aselected hour and then their greased-palmed pundits report on the popularity of the brown Zune... with a fancy jpg on the Amazon stats as proof.
    If I were to postulate, I'd have to go with 7 days, 10 days or 14 days as an ideal duration for Amazon's stats.



    I don't know. It's a good question. We can guess anything we like. I used to think it was daily, but that was a guess as well.



    I don't think a company would buy their own product back just to manipulate these numbers. They aren't that important after all, and they would have to be doing it constantly to give it any meaning.
  • Reply 90 of 122
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I don't know. It's a good question. We can guess anything we like. I used to think it was daily, but that was a guess as well.



    I don't think a company would buy their own product back just to manipulate these numbers. They aren't that important after all, and they would have to be doing it constantly to give it any meaning.



    I know. I was just trying to give my statements context.
  • Reply 91 of 122
    ericblrericblr Posts: 172member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by IVK View Post


    This site is slowly turning in a FUD central, how is reporting on Vista exactly mac news? Oh that's right, most Mac fans/Apple would rather openly insult Microsoft than actually finding a way to pursuade masses to coming over, then label it as news, submit it to digg.com and watch the sheep digg away even if what's posted is complete BS.



    Apple has done something to bash Vista which makes them look even more pathetic, click this link.



    http://www.apple.com/getamac/macosx.html



    How many times do they have to bash PC to persuade people to come over? Then they link "Why Vista Fails", an article over a year old and uses a beta build as it's basis for opinion. Wow Apple, you're reached a new low right up there with the low things Microsoft has done.



    "Skip past Vista" No thanks, Leopard offers nothing remotely interesting and I'll wait over a year because like all new mac versions, it's best to wait until .4-.5 update.



    Can Mac's play DirectX10 games? Nope. Will they ever? Possibly, with piss poor performance cause Apple always makes some bad choices in the video card department.



    Direct X is a typical resource hog. Open GL (which Apple adopted) is far more effiecient and runs much better than Direct X. Also given that Direct X is native to Microsoft Windows, I dont expect Apple to Adopt it, and why should they?! Open GL is a far far better standard.
  • Reply 92 of 122
    ivkivk Posts: 46member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ericblr View Post


    Direct X is a typical resource hog. Open GL (which Apple adopted) is far more effiecient and runs much better than Direct X. Also given that Direct X is native to Microsoft Windows, I dont expect Apple to Adopt it, and why should they?! Open GL is a far far better standard.



    Just because the OS doesn't support DirectX doesn't mean the hardware doesn't. The DX10 nvidia cards OpenGL output is tremendous, you'd hope Apple would want it to be more efficient down the line by utilizing hardware than can perform better.
  • Reply 93 of 122
    sunilramansunilraman Posts: 8,133member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mkane View Post


    Ok..whatever.....before we run with the article as proof lets set back and watch the market and see what happens.



    Yes I agree that Vista is not very appealing because of DRM and the high system recommendations.



    Now "if" Apple opens up OSX then I can see OSX gaining huge market shares but as it stands right now the PC known as Mac will not topple other PC's that use more cutting edge tech than the Mac PC. Sorry but I don't live in a fantasy world and believe that Apple's current direction with the Mac will top the other PC markets. The fact is other hardware companies like Nvidia, AMD/ATI, DFI, ASUS, ABIT, Creative Labs(X-FI...awesome card), Liteon, HP, etc... are pushing tech farther than ever before and Apple is just lagging behind with sleek looking over priced PC's running an awesome OS. So before you bash the PC understand that the MAC is a PC using lesser hardware and a very nice OS.



    I'm an honest Mac user and fan therefore I accept the facts with out spin. I build PC's and where I work we do not have a single Mac in our company. We use Dell, HP, IBM etc... When I see my employer Wal-Mart direct us in our IT department to roll out Macs then I will say that Macs are rising. We use XP, Unix, and Linux atm. I suspect that Novell will supply our Linux software very soon considering the deal that M$ and Novel made a few months back. Apple could possible work with Wal-Mart but Apple's own worse enemy is Apple therefore Apple must change in order to grow.



    Those TV commercials full of half truths and half lies will not topple M$ hold on the market. Apple should be honest and stop making it seem as Macs are so far superior to PC. All one has to do is compare the hardware to debunk this lie.



    Go ahead and flame me but the facts support my words.



    Before you flame remember that I'm a OSX fan who would love to see OSX opened up. Lets face it Apple will do much better selling gadgets and selling OSX than their current direction with the Mac. Opening OSX would expose Apple to more people thus selling more gadgets for Apple etc....



    Just my thoughts.....so load um up and fire away dishonest Mac fan boys who give every honest Mac user a very bad taste in their mouths!



    I think you're confusing the "cutting edge tech" with actual usefulness. It's a marketing game in the PC-commodity market. I built my own AMD64 a year and a half ago and in the 90's did fiddle with upgrades and the like... such as Creative's AWE32, Diamond 3D cards, Matrox RainbowRunner, etc. I understand the enthusiasm, and the fun of putting together the latest and greatest. And the masses buy into it as well, because there's tons of stuff to try out. Let us not forget the corporate world which is pretty much Windows all the way.



    There was a stronger dichotomy in the past between slick tech and a good OS in the Mac world. That has changed. My MacBook Core[1]Duo is a 10-month old model, but hell, in terms of hardware it is no slouch - Core[1]Duo 2MB cache, dualcore 2ghz, 2gbRAM, 5400rpmSeagate, 24bit-96khz audio(analog+optical), FW400 port, USB2.0 ports(of course), GMA950 (well, it *is* 13-inch). Here's a little tidbit: those Aero effects that demand a DirectX9.0c 128mb VRAM dedicated GPU, the GMA950 along with OpenGL and smart OSX engineering, you get Aero-quality or better effects in the MacBook. For example, the 3D RSS screensaver in OSX.



    I can run WinXP2Pro in Parallels in OSX. Fairly smoothly. And WindowsVista too - guess what, I deleted Vista after about a few days, all I saw was prettier effects and some built-in-apps that iLife decimates hands-down.



    Steve Jobs quoted someone saying "If you want to make good software, make the hardware". Apple's go-it-alone attitude has been tempered now, and Intel is shaping up to be a very solid partner. Apple wants to make *better hardware*. Partnering with Intel, they're on the right track. Remember that Apple RAM for example, for the past 5 years, Macs have always shipped with very high-quality RAM. As I mentioned, I got a solid Seagate in my MacBook - which (I don't know how many PC laptops can do it, some I suppose) - I can just quite easily swap out for a 7200.1 Seagate Momentus 80 or 100gb.



    In a few weeks it is likely I'll get back to my AMD64 rig (as I mentioned it is 3000+km away right now) and I'll do all the tweaking and upgrading I can afford - for *gaming* -- not for hobby/ enthusiast/ pro creative fun stuff. I'm done with all that demoware, shareware, crippleware, crapware. Even for Adobe/Macromedia, because I did use to do web design for several years, once I realised how fonts are handled in Adobe/Macromedia apps, I find it very hard to design in Windows. In terms of making music, I find again the Mac just a seamless platform, hardware and software, compared to drivers and defragging and a lot of fiddly checks (like antivirus and security updates and all that) bogging down the fun.



    For the consumer and prosumer market, the Mac is in my mind a very streamlined experience. People are free to of course enjoy Vista and the latest and shiniest, but behind it still lies frustration. People that decide to upgrade from frustration to (certainly in most cases) a much less frustrating experience on OSX on Mac hardware, good for them too.



    Let's think back on AMD64. What the frack was the real benefits of 64-bit??? For the gamer? For the average user that wants to organise their videos, surf the web, maybe burn some DVDs??



    Do we really need an X-Fi in any Mac? Anyone that's *serious* about music would get M-Audio/ DigiDesign level products.



    I am currently unemployed but I will go out on a limb and say the day Macs are being sold to the Wal-Mart crowd, well, it will be a different landscape. That's all I'm saying. Certainly some Mac elitists will be retching in the gutter when that day comes. I'm not sure if there have been any trials of Macs being sold in Wal-Mart. But the day is coming. In Australia at least, starting from iPods one or two years ago, Macs are now sold in the mainstream (but not budget) department stores (Myer/ David Jones). K-Mart, Wal-Mart, Target... Macs may soon be there.
  • Reply 94 of 122
    sunilramansunilraman Posts: 8,133member
    I find the "gaming" and GPU / latest tech/ tweaker arguments to be the most intriguing for advocating Windows and Linux. Given the hell of Linux drivers and the general consumer-adverse experience that is Linux, IMHO, let's look at Windows.



    And this is where I agree with some of you in a way, it's like there's all this fantastic tech, it's great overclocking and putting heatsinks and slapping in a 7900GT and a 20000000Xspeed DVD-writer, but after all is said and done, I fire it up, and I'm looking at Windows - glossyVista or the familiar XP2. At the end of the day, it's still a "Windows experience".



    I think that's where I'm drawing the line :: Mac for organising my life and enjoying the digital life. PCWindows for gaming, overclocking and tweaking - where I don't have to worry about Windows, I fire it up, fire up the game and I'm there. I'm not experiencing windows, I'm experiencing the great latest hardware I have all the control in the world over, and the gaming experience (interactive to whatever extent one believes games are today)... Who knows, I might get an XBOX360 or PS3 but that could be *worse* than a Mac because upgrade options are limited.



    I don't know if I might get a Windows tech support job simply because of the frustration I've had with it, I want less and less to do with it as I get older. Maybe something with Macs or iPhone or even SonyEricsson's may eventuate. Or maybe I'll be a park ranger or golf course horticulturist or whatever.
  • Reply 95 of 122
    sunilramansunilraman Posts: 8,133member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by IVK View Post


    Just because the OS doesn't support DirectX doesn't mean the hardware doesn't. The DX10 nvidia cards OpenGL output is tremendous, you'd hope Apple would want it to be more efficient down the line by utilizing hardware than can perform better.



    The power of OpenGL out of DX10 nVidia 8-series is indeed staggering and it IS Apple that is doing more innovation in this area than most other companies, outside of gaming, in terms of CoreImage, CoreAnimation, and so-on. Adobe CS3 Photoshop, I am not sure, but it has not reached the stage of harnessing this kind of GPU power through something like a fully node-based non-destructive filter/ masking/ curves/ transformations workflow.



    I think the X1600 256mb RAM for now is a solid option in iMacs and MacBookPros. Even for, OMFG, gaming. Then you have the 7600GT in the 24-inch iMac, and a few good options in the MacPro.



    Yes, Apple could do well to offer more options in the graphic card area. But they are getting there. I find it somewhat frustrating, but X1600s to Quadros span a large enough range to make the most of OpenGL on the Mac. I do hope Apple improves on this. But like I said, I'm happy with choosing the right card for me for gaming on Windows, and when DX10 cards do not draw and produce a tremendous amount of power and heat respectively, I might upgrade to the nVidia 8-series or maybe more sensible power-per-watt-per-dollar offerings from AMD-ATI.



    I may decide to do other things than spend time gaming (not sure at this stage) so I'm not sure what I might do with my AMD64 Venice 2ghz 1gb ram nVidia 6600GT rig. The Sony 17" 1280x1024 LCD would sit nicely by my MacBook for a dualie-monitor sweeeet setup. *note to self again* - need to get mini-DVI to DVI adapter.



    Edit:

    Actually I may enjoy working in more mid to high performance system building. Work more on the hardware side and work with quality drivers. And then let the software people take over that side. This way more dealing with and managing components and R&D'ing components, rather than fielding questions like "I had this website say my PC was infected with spyware when browsing www.supercoolcheapwebdealsforeverything.com and then I installed it and then now when I have an email in Outlook, sometimes Outlook crashes or cannot open the email". ..."Also the Symantec (oh... maybe because it is a Trial like a lot of stuff that was on my PC) Antivirus keeps saying everything is out of date. Am I secure enough? I don't know, maybe I shouldn't have installed all those Windows Updates without restarting after installing each *single* update."



    Edit2

    I think maybe I'm coming to a stage where I'm 28, and I just *dont* have enough Windows knowledge, I mean even *if* I get MCSE stuff and accumulate hardcore geek knowledge, maybe I just don't care enough about Windows anymore to have an opinion on it. I have an opinion now, maybe in a few months or years, I'll be like, whatevs, I have my Mac, should all hell break loose, there's always Windows on the Mac, then there's Windows at an Internet cafe, and meh, that's it.
  • Reply 96 of 122
    chuckerchucker Posts: 5,089member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ericblr View Post


    Direct X is a typical resource hog.



    And you are inferring this from what exactly?
  • Reply 97 of 122
    slewisslewis Posts: 2,081member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sunilraman View Post


    I don't know if I might get a Windows tech support job simply because of the frustration I've had with it, I want less and less to do with it as I get older. Maybe something with Macs or iPhone or even SonyEricsson's may eventuate. Or maybe I'll be a park ranger or golf course horticulturist or whatever.



    That's the one nice thing about Windows:

    It created a lot of Jobs just for Technical Support



    Sebastian
  • Reply 98 of 122
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,728member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post






    What folks see it at as, and hence the problem.



    .



    Or "XP Service Pack 07"
  • Reply 99 of 122
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,728member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Slewis View Post


    That's the one nice thing about Windows:

    It created a lot of Jobs just for Technical Support



    Sebastian



    That's not even a joke. MS huge support requirement is the #1 reason for their success... all the techs required to help folk and thus depending on it being crappy for their living and hence they recommend it ... A trick they learned from IBM IT departments in the 70's.



    In a few years when Apple OS dominates new computers imagine all the tens of thousands of geeks with a 'degree' in how to set up Outlook on the streets looking for work
  • Reply 100 of 122
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


    That's not even a joke. MS huge support requirement is the #1 reason for their success... all the techs required to help folk and thus depending on it being crappy for their living and hence they recommend it ... A trick they learned from IBM IT departments in the 70's.



    In a few years when Apple OS dominates new computers imagine all the tens of thousands of geeks with a 'degree' in how to set up Outlook on the streets looking for work



    Hmmmm.... there was a HUGE debate on Mac v. PC and tech support in Pogue's Posts a while ago. Many corporate IT types weighed in quite emotionally on this issue, since it apparently hit some kind of nerve. It turns out to be a tad more complicated than the discussion here. I would have cut-and-pasted some of the highlights, but that would do its thoughtful content great injustice.



    For those interested:



    http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2006/...17pogue-email/
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