I hate to break it to you but normal people don't want a computer in their living rooms, it's just the way it is.
WOW!
So now you stoop to telling people who dont agree with you that they are abnormal! way to win people over!
Normal people likely didnt want a DVD player in their homes in 1997 EITHER, nor iPods in 2001 for that matter, but then you dont see those as being the same thing.
Why dont you go to a "Normal" website where "normal" people hang out then and ask THEM if they have even heard of the Apple TV plus or minus the slot loading drive, I cant see you getting too many positive replies.
For someone trying to be far sighted you have an exceptionally narrow view of the world Brendan.
I have been using Apple products since 1979 and bought my first Mac in October 1984. I love Apple products!!!
That said, I will have to say that a few times Apple has missed the boat with some of their products by not listening to users.
I agree that most people do not want a "computer" in their living room. But they do want to access all of their entertainment media via one easy to use device. Unless you have a device that can read various media transport formats, the user is "forced" to have a supporting computer in some capacity. In order to use the Apple TV the way Apple intended you must have a computer with itunes.
By including a simple device such as a multiple format optical device, Apple will remove much of the negative press regarding the Apple TV. When Apple placed the ATV on the market with requirement that it be attached to an HD TV but did not provide a way to view HD products they left themselves wide open to criticism. Leaving such an obvious hole in their product was a serious mistake which Apple needs to correct soon or the ATV will fall by the wayside as all the other misguided media center products.
People will buy what solves their problems. Until ATV provides an adequate return on investment for the customer's entertainment needs, it will not sell.
I would like to get an ATV, but until it can meet my needs, I'll wait.
When Apple placed the ATV on the market with requirement that it be attached to an HD TV but did not provide a way to view HD products they left themselves wide open to criticism.
How, pray tell, will a DVD drive help? It wont. So its still a so-so device. Add a BR player and you have a case although you may have to upgrade the processor.
Quote:
Leaving such an obvious hole in their product was a serious mistake which Apple needs to correct soon or the ATV will fall by the wayside as all the other misguided media center products.
You mean like the XBox 360? And the upcoming home server from MS? The 360 is certainly no failure...although lightly used as a MCE its the best on the market. The home server is an upcoming product...we'll see how well it does but Apple really needs the equivalent.
Quote:
People will buy what solves their problems. Until ATV provides an adequate return on investment for the customer's entertainment needs, it will not sell.
Which will be when they have 720p/24 movies for download from iTunes. Not when they add an obsolecent DVD drive.
Considering the cost of the AppleTV and BluRay players, the discussion should really be framed as: Should AppleTV functionality be added to a BluRay player? (not the other way around)
I'm personally glad that Apple's network media player doesn't have an optical drive. Optical drives typically last around 3 years but a solid state media player should almost never fail. Hell, I'd even remove the harddrive if possible. The AppleTV has enough processing power and a fast enough network connection that it should function just fine as a network media player for a decade or more. On the other hand, last year's next-gen optical player's were not only expensive, but many are already obsolete as well, being incapable of supporting updated playback standards.
So now you stoop to telling people who dont agree with you that they are abnormal! way to win people over!
You argue for the sake of it don't you? I mean you defended someone before who I wasn't attacking, with quoted words from them that didn't even exist. Why just be annoying. Now I'm really curious of your age, I can't believe you are over 22.
And by the way, whatever way you want to put it. Normal, regular or average people don't want a computer in their living rooms. That's not an aggressive, it's a true one.
You argue for the sake of it don't you? I mean you defended someone before who I wasn't attacking, with quoted words from them that didn't even exist. Why just be annoying. Now I'm really curious of your age, I can't believe you are over 22.
And by the way, whatever way you want to put it. Normal, regular or average people don't want a computer in their living rooms. That's not an aggressive, it's a true one.
Really, why do you make such blanket remarks?
Normal, regular or average people also have children, and if they wish to monitor their kids activity on the computer then they keep one in the living room/family room.
or do you disagree with that?
-
Your implication was that someone who didnt agree with you was not "normal".
My age is irrelevant, unless somehow you feel threataned by it one way or the other?
If you find that an argument counter to yours is "annoying" then perhaps you need to reassess how you view the world?
Normal, regular or average people also have children, and if they wish to monitor their kids activity on the computer then they keep one in the living room/family room.
or do you disagree with that?
What it hell are you talking about?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe
Your implication was that someone who didn't agree with you was not "normal".
That's just not true. Normal, regular, run-of-the-mill people don't want a computer in their living rooms. That's my point, you may just be paranoid.
And the age thing, I don't need an answer for that now. I had a feeling you were relatively young.
For the record, here are my 2 cents. You've got the family room, and the living room. The family room as a TV, computer, game console maybe. The living room however, which is often just inside the front door, just has a TV. Well, at least 95% of all the houses I've been to are like that.
Considering the cost of the AppleTV and BluRay players, the discussion should really be framed as: Should AppleTV functionality be added to a BluRay player? (not the other way around)
I'm personally glad that Apple's network media player doesn't have an optical drive. Optical drives typically last around 3 years but a solid state media player should almost never fail. Hell, I'd even remove the harddrive if possible. The AppleTV has enough processing power and a fast enough network connection that it should function just fine as a network media player for a decade or more. On the other hand, last year's next-gen optical player's were not only expensive, but many are already obsolete as well, being incapable of supporting updated playback standards.
You could always replace it with at 32GB flash drive...
For the record, here are my 2 cents. You've got the family room, and the living room. The family room as a TV, computer, game console maybe. The living room however, which is often just inside the front door, just has a TV. Well, at least 95% of all the houses I've been to are like that.
And also for the record, I'm with Ireland.
Hmmm...I would guess that 95% of formal living rooms don't have a TV. Especially these days given that you'd need another cable run and another cable box...
As far as most folks not wanting a computer in the living/family room...well...okay but a Mini isn't going to be much different than a 360 or PS3 or AV Receiver. Frontrow is pretty simple to access and get the Mini into a CE like mode. Use the remote and...Front Row.
It probably is harder to get the TV or Receiver into the right input mode than getting the Mini up.
As far as most folks not wanting a computer in the living/family room...well...okay but a Mini isn't going to be much different than a 360 or PS3 or AV Receiver. Frontrow is pretty simple to access and get the Mini into a CE like mode. Use the remote and...Front Row.
Vinea
I don't mind having a computer in the living/family as long as t doesn't have a 'computer' interface. I want something simple. ATV interface is definitely a step in the right direction in that regard IMO.
I don't mind having a computer in the living/family as long as t doesn't have a 'computer' interface. I want something simple. ATV interface is definitely a step in the right direction in that regard IMO.
Yeah, that's the point. Putting a slot in an Apple TV doesn't make is a Mac mini - thank you.
This is why its bad having 2 threads on the same topic.
Regarding BR vs DVD...Pioneer has a $300 BR reader and DVD/CD writer combo drive for $300 (including burner software). I'd much rather see a $699 aTV with BR player that could do BR/DVD/CD at 1080p/24 than a $449 aTV with a DVD/CD reader.
Of course, you probably want to upgrade the CPU and go $799 at that point (for smooth 1080p/24 playback) and gee...what do you have but a low end Mini w/Blu-Ray at that point?
Why not just put this baby in a mini??? Why on earth Apple doesn't appreciate the mini and make it into something better. Give it a better set up and I would absolutely buy one of those babies.
Why on earth Apple doesn't appreciate the mini and make it into something better...
Apple- why don't you listen!!!
Apple wants the Mini to die, they want people to buy AppleTV to drive their TV and they want the masses to buy an iMac for computing and as a middleman for AppleTV content. This is a mistake because it's not what customers actually want.
But Apple never listens to users anyway, they think we're idiots willing to buy anything they make.
Comments
I hate to break it to you but normal people don't want a computer in their living rooms, it's just the way it is.
WOW!
So now you stoop to telling people who dont agree with you that they are abnormal! way to win people over!
Normal people likely didnt want a DVD player in their homes in 1997 EITHER, nor iPods in 2001 for that matter, but then you dont see those as being the same thing.
Why dont you go to a "Normal" website where "normal" people hang out then and ask THEM if they have even heard of the Apple TV plus or minus the slot loading drive, I cant see you getting too many positive replies.
For someone trying to be far sighted you have an exceptionally narrow view of the world Brendan.
That said, I will have to say that a few times Apple has missed the boat with some of their products by not listening to users.
I agree that most people do not want a "computer" in their living room. But they do want to access all of their entertainment media via one easy to use device. Unless you have a device that can read various media transport formats, the user is "forced" to have a supporting computer in some capacity. In order to use the Apple TV the way Apple intended you must have a computer with itunes.
By including a simple device such as a multiple format optical device, Apple will remove much of the negative press regarding the Apple TV. When Apple placed the ATV on the market with requirement that it be attached to an HD TV but did not provide a way to view HD products they left themselves wide open to criticism. Leaving such an obvious hole in their product was a serious mistake which Apple needs to correct soon or the ATV will fall by the wayside as all the other misguided media center products.
People will buy what solves their problems. Until ATV provides an adequate return on investment for the customer's entertainment needs, it will not sell.
I would like to get an ATV, but until it can meet my needs, I'll wait.
When Apple placed the ATV on the market with requirement that it be attached to an HD TV but did not provide a way to view HD products they left themselves wide open to criticism.
How, pray tell, will a DVD drive help? It wont. So its still a so-so device. Add a BR player and you have a case although you may have to upgrade the processor.
Leaving such an obvious hole in their product was a serious mistake which Apple needs to correct soon or the ATV will fall by the wayside as all the other misguided media center products.
You mean like the XBox 360? And the upcoming home server from MS? The 360 is certainly no failure...although lightly used as a MCE its the best on the market. The home server is an upcoming product...we'll see how well it does but Apple really needs the equivalent.
People will buy what solves their problems. Until ATV provides an adequate return on investment for the customer's entertainment needs, it will not sell.
Which will be when they have 720p/24 movies for download from iTunes. Not when they add an obsolecent DVD drive.
Vinea
I'm personally glad that Apple's network media player doesn't have an optical drive. Optical drives typically last around 3 years but a solid state media player should almost never fail. Hell, I'd even remove the harddrive if possible. The AppleTV has enough processing power and a fast enough network connection that it should function just fine as a network media player for a decade or more. On the other hand, last year's next-gen optical player's were not only expensive, but many are already obsolete as well, being incapable of supporting updated playback standards.
WOW!
So now you stoop to telling people who dont agree with you that they are abnormal! way to win people over!
You argue for the sake of it don't you? I mean you defended someone before who I wasn't attacking, with quoted words from them that didn't even exist. Why just be annoying. Now I'm really curious of your age, I can't believe you are over 22.
And by the way, whatever way you want to put it. Normal, regular or average people don't want a computer in their living rooms. That's not an aggressive, it's a true one.
You argue for the sake of it don't you? I mean you defended someone before who I wasn't attacking, with quoted words from them that didn't even exist. Why just be annoying. Now I'm really curious of your age, I can't believe you are over 22.
And by the way, whatever way you want to put it. Normal, regular or average people don't want a computer in their living rooms. That's not an aggressive, it's a true one.
Really, why do you make such blanket remarks?
Normal, regular or average people also have children, and if they wish to monitor their kids activity on the computer then they keep one in the living room/family room.
or do you disagree with that?
-
Your implication was that someone who didnt agree with you was not "normal".
My age is irrelevant, unless somehow you feel threataned by it one way or the other?
If you find that an argument counter to yours is "annoying" then perhaps you need to reassess how you view the world?
Normal, regular or average people also have children, and if they wish to monitor their kids activity on the computer then they keep one in the living room/family room.
or do you disagree with that?
What it hell are you talking about?
Your implication was that someone who didn't agree with you was not "normal".
That's just not true. Normal, regular, run-of-the-mill people don't want a computer in their living rooms. That's my point, you may just be paranoid.
And the age thing, I don't need an answer for that now. I had a feeling you were relatively young.
And also for the record, I'm with Ireland.
Considering the cost of the AppleTV and BluRay players, the discussion should really be framed as: Should AppleTV functionality be added to a BluRay player? (not the other way around)
I'm personally glad that Apple's network media player doesn't have an optical drive. Optical drives typically last around 3 years but a solid state media player should almost never fail. Hell, I'd even remove the harddrive if possible. The AppleTV has enough processing power and a fast enough network connection that it should function just fine as a network media player for a decade or more. On the other hand, last year's next-gen optical player's were not only expensive, but many are already obsolete as well, being incapable of supporting updated playback standards.
You could always replace it with at 32GB flash drive...
Vinea
For the record, here are my 2 cents. You've got the family room, and the living room. The family room as a TV, computer, game console maybe. The living room however, which is often just inside the front door, just has a TV. Well, at least 95% of all the houses I've been to are like that.
And also for the record, I'm with Ireland.
Hmmm...I would guess that 95% of formal living rooms don't have a TV. Especially these days given that you'd need another cable run and another cable box...
As far as most folks not wanting a computer in the living/family room...well...okay but a Mini isn't going to be much different than a 360 or PS3 or AV Receiver. Frontrow is pretty simple to access and get the Mini into a CE like mode. Use the remote and...Front Row.
It probably is harder to get the TV or Receiver into the right input mode than getting the Mini up.
Vinea
As far as most folks not wanting a computer in the living/family room...well...okay but a Mini isn't going to be much different than a 360 or PS3 or AV Receiver. Frontrow is pretty simple to access and get the Mini into a CE like mode. Use the remote and...Front Row.
Vinea
I don't mind having a computer in the living/family as long as t doesn't have a 'computer' interface. I want something simple. ATV interface is definitely a step in the right direction in that regard IMO.
I don't mind having a computer in the living/family as long as t doesn't have a 'computer' interface. I want something simple. ATV interface is definitely a step in the right direction in that regard IMO.
Yeah, that's the point. Putting a slot in an Apple TV doesn't make is a Mac mini - thank you.
Yeah, that's the point. Putting a slot in an Apple TV doesn't make is a Mac mini - thank you.
Again...a Mac mini isn't any more difficult to use. Hit menu on the remote and you're in Front Row...
Yeah, that's the point. Putting a slot in an Apple TV doesn't make is a Mac mini - thank you.
No it doesnt make it a Mac Mini, it makes it an even more underpowered mac mini.
No it doesnt make it a Mac Mini, it makes it an even more underpowered mac mini.
Wow, you are thick.
Regarding BR vs DVD...Pioneer has a $300 BR reader and DVD/CD writer combo drive for $300 (including burner software). I'd much rather see a $699 aTV with BR player that could do BR/DVD/CD at 1080p/24 than a $449 aTV with a DVD/CD reader.
Of course, you probably want to upgrade the CPU and go $799 at that point (for smooth 1080p/24 playback) and gee...what do you have but a low end Mini w/Blu-Ray at that point?
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pn...935078,00.html
Vinea
Apple- why don't you listen!!!
Why on earth Apple doesn't appreciate the mini and make it into something better...
Apple- why don't you listen!!!
Apple wants the Mini to die, they want people to buy AppleTV to drive their TV and they want the masses to buy an iMac for computing and as a middleman for AppleTV content. This is a mistake because it's not what customers actually want.
But Apple never listens to users anyway, they think we're idiots willing to buy anything they make.
And for the most part, they're right.