I believe when Apple came out with the mini, it was in part an experiment, to see how well it sells. It didn't get much keynote attention, if I remember correctly. I got the impression Steve's feelings were, "Here it is; now stop your complaining."
Now, Apple is doing quite well, and can afford another such experiment, a mini tower. Most of us know it will sell enough over time to recoup Apple's development cost. So it is not a big gamble.
With a Mac mini tower in the line up, it would answer the question about customer demand for such a product, and recover lost sales that now go to eBay, including mine. Would I buy todays Mac Pro? Yes, in about three or four years, on eBay.
And this reason is the one that I find laughable. Status symbol computer? Good heavens put down your mirror and get over yourself. It is a computer. If you need to buy a certain brand to justify your existence...
That is sad.
I like what Ben,MJ et al are saying. Their opinions are reasoned and tempered with reality.
And this reason is the one that I find laughable. Status symbol computer?
That's Ben's term not mine. He uses it to deride the iMac and mini, I guess as not manly machines or something.
Quote:
Good heavens put down your mirror and get over yourself. It is a computer. If you need to buy a certain brand to justify your existence...
That is sad.
What is sad is the inability to read. While I believe that Apple has a great brand it's no higher than Sony. Well, Sony in its heyday...a bit above Sony today. Same level of quality as the top end Japanese notebook makers with their sleek and functional ultraportables, tablets, UMPCs and notebooks.
That they also make some desktops is a nice thing. Something Sony, Toshiba, NEC, etc had to abandon due to Dell and HP.
That's Ben's term not mine. He uses it to deride the iMac and mini, I guess as not manly machines or something.
What is sad is the inability to read. While I believe that Apple has a great brand it's no higher than Sony. Well, Sony in its heyday...a bit above Sony today. Same level of quality as the top end Japanese notebook makers with their sleek and functional ultraportables, tablets, UMPCs and notebooks.
That they also make some desktops is a nice thing. Something Sony, Toshiba, NEC, etc had to abandon due to Dell and HP.
Now to be fair, I have compared Apple to Porsche in the past. Some do buy Apple products for mere branding/status but like Porsche, Apple combines engineering and design excellence for a powerful but refined driving/computing experience.
The "status" is derived from excellence, not from empty marketing or "style over substance" as Ben implies.
And lets be honest here...the addition of PCIe slots is a real can of worms for consumer machines. The lack of drivers coupled with the physical compatibility of PCIe would not make for a very nice computing experience.
Now to be fair, I have compared Apple to Porsche in the past. Some do buy Apple products for mere branding/status but like Porsche, Apple combines engineering and design excellence for a powerful but refined driving/computing experience.
The "status" is derived from excellence, not from empty marketing or "style over substance" as Ben implies.
And lets be honest here...the addition of PCIe slots is a real can of worms for consumer machines. The lack of drivers coupled with the physical compatibility of PCIe would not make for a very nice computing experience.
Vinea
it's not just that it is the lack of a good head less system in the $700-$1900
aslo the imac have screens that are NOT GOOD FOR photoshop work.
and the high end mini should have a better video card and a desktop cpu and HD.
$2000+ for a mac pro base on only 1GB of ram? 7300gt at $150? $300 for 1gb of ram? add $999 for a 4 port raid 5 no raid 6 sata not SAS raid card what a rip.
I asked this once before but got no answers. Since a Mini is @ 6X6X2 and has quite a bit packed into it, what could you pack into one three times the size: 6X6X6 -cube. Fan, more memory, faster HDD, better video card ( with it's own memory), a couple more slots, AND what I want - two DVI ports. That would suit me fine.
Is there something about correcting others that makes you feel better about life. Before you make the jerk move of correcting me first make sure your facts AND assumptions are straight, junior.
No, I'm quite aware of whom I quoted. And if you would care to go back and re-read my post, you'll find I quoted Rickag I but never mentioned you. He was, more or less, discussing the tone of your posts. But I was using one of his quotes to surmise an overall feeling about posts like these, not take a shot at you.
But since you just had to jump up and type a response... well I guess a nerve was struck.
If a nerve was touched, examine that. Not me. You make me tired.
Back to to the real point.
I like the mock-up posted, that has possibilities. I wonder what a smaller version of the Mac Pro would look like... (hint... hint... could some one make one??)
it's not just that it is the lack of a good head less system in the $700-$1900
aslo the imac have screens that are NOT GOOD FOR photoshop work.
and the high end mini should have a better video card and a desktop cpu and HD.
$2000+ for a mac pro base on only 1GB of ram? 7300gt at $150? $300 for 1gb of ram? add $999 for a 4 port raid 5 no raid 6 sata not SAS raid card what a rip.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressure
You do realise that the panel used in the new 24" iMac is superior to the one used in the Apple Cinema Displays right?
H-IPS is better than S-IPS panels.
The TN panels in the 20" are meh but few photoshop folks would be overwhelmingly happy with a 20" these days anyway.
The tradeoff between glossy and the anti-glare on the matte 23" ACD favors the matte but the glossy is sharper without the anti-glare. I would hope the next gen 24" ACD with the same H-IPS panel gives you the option of matte vs glossy. I wouldn't want to work in a black pit although some of our graphics folks do JUST that. For them the added sharpness of the glossy is likely an advantage without the liability of reflections.
The mini is fine for what it is although a X3100 and HDMI out would be welcome.
Apple memory prices have always been a rip off but the stock Mac Pro is priced well. For whatever reason the Dell Precision 690 also only comes with 1GB stock. They just don't rip you off quite as badly but Crucial is still cheaper than either company.
There's no SAS because the HDDs in the pro are SATA although at $999 the RAID card seems overpriced. Frankly if they add ZFS to Leopard then it becomes a lot less important anyway. RAIDZ-2 should be adequate for folks without a fiber channel XRAID setup.
I asked this once before but got no answers. Since a Mini is @ 6X6X2 and has quite a bit packed into it, what could you pack into one three times the size: 6X6X6 -cube. Fan, more memory, faster HDD, better video card ( with it's own memory), a couple more slots, AND what I want - two DVI ports. That would suit me fine.
You need the dual DVI port for Dual Display ofr high resolution?
You need the dual DVI port for Dual Display ofr high resolution?
I have 2 large displays now which I'd like to use when I buy a new Mac. Mini has 1 DVI port. iMac has a screen which I don't need. Mac Pro is overkill. Gap in Mac lineup is frustrating. I know there are 'splitters', but I've been steered away from them by AI members.
I'm in the market for a new MacPro, but I would rather have something smaller. I would be happy to do without 2 of the drive bays, half of the memory space (8 Gig would be plenty) and some of the expandability. As long as I can get 2 HDs in a double wide PCI Express GPU, 1 Quad Core, or 2 x Dual Core CPUs and up to 8 Gig of memory I'd be happy.
- 1 model, like the Mac Pro, that can be customized.
My reason for the 4GB RAM limit is to prevent the cannibalization of Mac Pro sales by people that want or need more than 4GB RAM but do not need the power of the Mac Pro. No FireWire 800 removes another "pro" feature and gives the iMac a point in its favor since it does have it. The processor could be either a speed that the Mac Pro doesn't have or match the lowest one, and of course, it won't be a Xeon.
OS X Leopard is a 64bit Operating System. Apple is working on raising the RAM standards for their entire lineup.
8 Gig of RAM as a maximum are common in barebone PC boxes. 8 Gigs should be the baseline for OS X Mid-Tower.
We know that Tiger owners wouldn't benefit so you know if you're going to upgrade to Leopard after a certain revision bumping the hardware to really leverage 64 bit makes sense. It would drive future hardware sales.
Is there something about correcting others that makes you feel better about life. Before you make the jerk move of correcting me first make sure your facts AND assumptions are straight, junior.
LOL...junior...that's funny.
Quote:
No, I'm quite aware of whom I quoted. And if you would care to go back and re-read my post, you'll find I quoted Rickag I but never mentioned you. He was, more or less, discussing the tone of your posts. But I was using one of his quotes to surmise an overall feeling about posts like these, not take a shot at you.
Your post was directed at a single person "put down your mirror and get over yourself". Since rickag was talking to me, and you quoted him then the natural assumption would be that you're still talking about me.
Quote:
But since you just had to jump up and type a response... well I guess a nerve was struck.
No nerve per se except that I perfer to take shots on things I say as opposed to things Ben says.
Quote:
If a nerve was touched, examine that. Not me. You make me tired.
You may retire from this discussion at any time if you are too tired to continue.
Comments
Now, Apple is doing quite well, and can afford another such experiment, a mini tower. Most of us know it will sell enough over time to recoup Apple's development cost. So it is not a big gamble.
With a Mac mini tower in the line up, it would answer the question about customer demand for such a product, and recover lost sales that now go to eBay, including mine. Would I buy todays Mac Pro? Yes, in about three or four years, on eBay.
status symbol computers
And this reason is the one that I find laughable. Status symbol computer? Good heavens put down your mirror and get over yourself. It is a computer. If you need to buy a certain brand to justify your existence...
That is sad.
I like what Ben,MJ et al are saying. Their opinions are reasoned and tempered with reality.
MJ, you worked for Jobs? Mind if I ask when?
Thanks!
FOXPhotog
It's Apple chance to come up with a simple, attractive and reasonably priced desktop and clean up the market!!!
So if they do come up with this desktop (which I likey) what am I to do with my new, shiny MacPro 2.66??
FOXPhotog
MJ, you worked for Jobs? Mind if I ask when?
'Twas in another lifetime, one of toil and blood
When blackness was a virtue and the road was full of mud
I came in from the wilderness, a creature void of form.
"Come in," she said, "I'll give you shelter from the storm."
...
I was burned out from exhaustion, buried in the hail,
Poisoned in the bushes an' blown out on the trail,
Hunted like a crocodile, ravaged in the corn.
"Come in," she said, "I'll give you shelter from the storm."
...
Now there's a wall between us, somethin' there's been lost
I took too much for granted, got my signals crossed.
Just to think that it all began on a long-forgotten morn.
"Come in," she said, "I'll give you shelter from the storm."
...
Well, I'm livin' in a foreign country but I'm bound to cross the line
Beauty walks a razor's edge, someday I'll make it mine.
If I could only turn back the clock to when God and her were born.
"Come in," she said, "I'll give you shelter from the storm."
I too see life as a Bob Dylan's song, but not a Beatles one, I hate the Beatles, maybe that's why we parted...?
So if they do come up with this desktop (which I likey) what am I to do with my new, shiny MacPro 2.66??
FOXPhotog
You have a new, shiny MacPro 2.66!!! Congratulations!!! I wish I had one, I'd play with/in it instead of posting on those forums
And this reason is the one that I find laughable. Status symbol computer?
That's Ben's term not mine. He uses it to deride the iMac and mini, I guess as not manly machines or something.
Good heavens put down your mirror and get over yourself. It is a computer. If you need to buy a certain brand to justify your existence...
That is sad.
What is sad is the inability to read. While I believe that Apple has a great brand it's no higher than Sony. Well, Sony in its heyday...a bit above Sony today. Same level of quality as the top end Japanese notebook makers with their sleek and functional ultraportables, tablets, UMPCs and notebooks.
That they also make some desktops is a nice thing. Something Sony, Toshiba, NEC, etc had to abandon due to Dell and HP.
Vinea
So if they do come up with this desktop (which I likey) what am I to do with my new, shiny MacPro 2.66??
FOXPhotog
Uh, use it. If you don't want it, I'd be more than happy to take it though.
That's Ben's term not mine. He uses it to deride the iMac and mini, I guess as not manly machines or something.
What is sad is the inability to read. While I believe that Apple has a great brand it's no higher than Sony. Well, Sony in its heyday...a bit above Sony today. Same level of quality as the top end Japanese notebook makers with their sleek and functional ultraportables, tablets, UMPCs and notebooks.
That they also make some desktops is a nice thing. Something Sony, Toshiba, NEC, etc had to abandon due to Dell and HP.
Who named you, Vinea?
Someone doth protest too much methinks...
FOXPhotog
Who named you, Vinea?
Someone doth protest too much methinks...
FOXPhotog
Rickag. Someone doth readth poorly methinks...you don't recall whom you quoted?
Now to be fair, I have compared Apple to Porsche in the past. Some do buy Apple products for mere branding/status but like Porsche, Apple combines engineering and design excellence for a powerful but refined driving/computing experience.
The "status" is derived from excellence, not from empty marketing or "style over substance" as Ben implies.
And lets be honest here...the addition of PCIe slots is a real can of worms for consumer machines. The lack of drivers coupled with the physical compatibility of PCIe would not make for a very nice computing experience.
Vinea
not that i need a mini tower, but there was so much talk... i just had to do a mockup
I like the mock up but it is not in a cube shape is it? ( Since you said mini tower )
Could u do a cube shape one just for us to see
Rickag. Someone doth readth poorly methinks...you don't recall whom you quoted?
Now to be fair, I have compared Apple to Porsche in the past. Some do buy Apple products for mere branding/status but like Porsche, Apple combines engineering and design excellence for a powerful but refined driving/computing experience.
The "status" is derived from excellence, not from empty marketing or "style over substance" as Ben implies.
And lets be honest here...the addition of PCIe slots is a real can of worms for consumer machines. The lack of drivers coupled with the physical compatibility of PCIe would not make for a very nice computing experience.
Vinea
it's not just that it is the lack of a good head less system in the $700-$1900
aslo the imac have screens that are NOT GOOD FOR photoshop work.
and the high end mini should have a better video card and a desktop cpu and HD.
$2000+ for a mac pro base on only 1GB of ram? 7300gt at $150? $300 for 1gb of ram? add $999 for a 4 port raid 5 no raid 6 sata not SAS raid card what a rip.
Rickag. Someone doth readth poorly methinks...you don't recall whom you quoted?
Is there something about correcting others that makes you feel better about life. Before you make the jerk move of correcting me first make sure your facts AND assumptions are straight, junior.
No, I'm quite aware of whom I quoted. And if you would care to go back and re-read my post, you'll find I quoted Rickag I but never mentioned you. He was, more or less, discussing the tone of your posts. But I was using one of his quotes to surmise an overall feeling about posts like these, not take a shot at you.
But since you just had to jump up and type a response... well I guess a nerve was struck.
If a nerve was touched, examine that. Not me. You make me tired.
Back to to the real point.
I like the mock-up posted, that has possibilities. I wonder what a smaller version of the Mac Pro would look like... (hint... hint... could some one make one??)
it's not just that it is the lack of a good head less system in the $700-$1900
aslo the imac have screens that are NOT GOOD FOR photoshop work.
and the high end mini should have a better video card and a desktop cpu and HD.
$2000+ for a mac pro base on only 1GB of ram? 7300gt at $150? $300 for 1gb of ram? add $999 for a 4 port raid 5 no raid 6 sata not SAS raid card what a rip.
You do realise that the panel used in the new 24" iMac is superior to the one used in the Apple Cinema Displays right?
H-IPS is better than S-IPS panels.
The TN panels in the 20" are meh but few photoshop folks would be overwhelmingly happy with a 20" these days anyway.
The tradeoff between glossy and the anti-glare on the matte 23" ACD favors the matte but the glossy is sharper without the anti-glare. I would hope the next gen 24" ACD with the same H-IPS panel gives you the option of matte vs glossy. I wouldn't want to work in a black pit although some of our graphics folks do JUST that. For them the added sharpness of the glossy is likely an advantage without the liability of reflections.
The mini is fine for what it is although a X3100 and HDMI out would be welcome.
Apple memory prices have always been a rip off but the stock Mac Pro is priced well. For whatever reason the Dell Precision 690 also only comes with 1GB stock. They just don't rip you off quite as badly but Crucial is still cheaper than either company.
There's no SAS because the HDDs in the pro are SATA although at $999 the RAID card seems overpriced. Frankly if they add ZFS to Leopard then it becomes a lot less important anyway. RAIDZ-2 should be adequate for folks without a fiber channel XRAID setup.
I asked this once before but got no answers. Since a Mini is @ 6X6X2 and has quite a bit packed into it, what could you pack into one three times the size: 6X6X6 -cube. Fan, more memory, faster HDD, better video card ( with it's own memory), a couple more slots, AND what I want - two DVI ports. That would suit me fine.
You need the dual DVI port for Dual Display ofr high resolution?
You need the dual DVI port for Dual Display ofr high resolution?
I have 2 large displays now which I'd like to use when I buy a new Mac. Mini has 1 DVI port. iMac has a screen which I don't need. Mac Pro is overkill. Gap in Mac lineup is frustrating. I know there are 'splitters', but I've been steered away from them by AI members.
I like this configuration but my changes are:
- two RAM slots for a total of 4GB
- no FireWire 800
- 3 USB 2.0 ports
- optical drive with LightScribe capabilities
- 802.11n wireless
- 1 model, like the Mac Pro, that can be customized.
My reason for the 4GB RAM limit is to prevent the cannibalization of Mac Pro sales by people that want or need more than 4GB RAM but do not need the power of the Mac Pro. No FireWire 800 removes another "pro" feature and gives the iMac a point in its favor since it does have it. The processor could be either a speed that the Mac Pro doesn't have or match the lowest one, and of course, it won't be a Xeon.
OS X Leopard is a 64bit Operating System. Apple is working on raising the RAM standards for their entire lineup.
8 Gig of RAM as a maximum are common in barebone PC boxes. 8 Gigs should be the baseline for OS X Mid-Tower.
We know that Tiger owners wouldn't benefit so you know if you're going to upgrade to Leopard after a certain revision bumping the hardware to really leverage 64 bit makes sense. It would drive future hardware sales.
I wonder what a smaller version of the Mac Pro would look like... (hint... hint... could some one make one??)
It's already been done in physical form as a modded G4 cube. This was submitted by killerapp, taken from a "dead" blog:
Is there something about correcting others that makes you feel better about life. Before you make the jerk move of correcting me first make sure your facts AND assumptions are straight, junior.
LOL...junior...that's funny.
No, I'm quite aware of whom I quoted. And if you would care to go back and re-read my post, you'll find I quoted Rickag I but never mentioned you. He was, more or less, discussing the tone of your posts. But I was using one of his quotes to surmise an overall feeling about posts like these, not take a shot at you.
Your post was directed at a single person "put down your mirror and get over yourself". Since rickag was talking to me, and you quoted him then the natural assumption would be that you're still talking about me.
But since you just had to jump up and type a response... well I guess a nerve was struck.
No nerve per se except that I perfer to take shots on things I say as opposed to things Ben says.
If a nerve was touched, examine that. Not me. You make me tired.
You may retire from this discussion at any time if you are too tired to continue.
Vinea