As a traveling man, i though it would be amazing to have a MCP 17" an all powerful computer on my lap, but yeah it's massive! trains & and planes are too small for a 17" plus the battery life is to short. I've come to realize that I need a lot less than I think I do. It's driven me to the other end of the spectrum.
I'm excited about all the possibilities of this new machine, but does anybody know more accurately when it might be released? dates?
Think about this, how difficult would it be for Apple to introduce two variants. One with a CDROM drive i a slightly thicker case and one all solid state. I suspect that it could be done very easily.
AS to the need for a CDROM that really depends on the person. AT work USB flash drives have taken over from floppy and in many cases CDROM. So the demand that was there two or three years ago is now gone.
On the other hand if you travel a lot there is a bit of satisfaction in being able to play your favorite DVD's. This is still a significant usage for people that travel by air often.
Almost everything else is usually handled at the desktop. So a plug in CDROM drive is not a big deal. Often with laptops today the CDROM is unplugged to make the slot available for other things. I just don't see a issue with a optical drive free portable.
Frankly I see a lot of advantages. Depending on how flash hold up in real life, the units could be very reliable. I know at work the major issue we have had with laptops is in the hard drive. Following behind that is getting the optical drive to read CDROMS reliably. I think people are underestimating just how nice the combination of low power and reliability will be. As to the size of the units, it is a real market segment. I fully expect Apple to offer some of this sort of technology in the larger laptops.
Looking ahead, people inside the company and those close to Apple's plans say there will be a big announcement regarding a so-called subnotebook Mac. The ultra-thin device will have a 10-inch to 12-inch screen; sleek, rounded edges; and weigh less than 2 pounds.
That's a lot more like it! 2 pounds and 12 inches. All you curs better get behind me in line at the Apple Store. Heck, I think I'll forget about buying an iPhone in favor of this.
I personally would like to see apple come out with a thin lightweight notebook, I am on the go a lot with my notebook and would like to have one that could shed a few pounds, I would like to see a solid state one as well, I have had other laptops and have replaces the HDD in them several times due to the fact that I am always moving with them. One that I would not have to worry so much about them being banged up a bit would be nice, I used to use the optical drive in my laptops more then I do today, with flash drives now in 2 or more GB of storage I can load most of what I need to take with me on one of them. So losing an optical drive would be a bit of a pain at times but to me would be a reasonable trade off to keeping the weight down and making it a bit more rugged. Colors would be cool but again not more important then some of the other things.
I also agree that there is a market for all three types of notebooks that are being discussed here, some people would like to have one with all the bells and whistles that can be a direct desktop replacement others want something that can be a go between for a desktop and an ultra portable model that will have HDD and Optical drive so that they can do most of what they do at home on a desktop with, and finally others want something that can travel and not make you feel like you are on a hiking trip something that will be able to travel and you can almost forget that you have it till you need it.
...If you are going to want to be listening to CDs or if watching DVDs is an option you want to have open, then get you a MB or a MBP.....
but isn't the target customer for an ultraportable the user who travels? Granted, iPods/iPhones are increasingly supplying the means of listening to music and watching videos, but I'm not sure that product displacement is complete yet: a 3.5" screen can't compete (well) against 12 to 13.3 inch displays. I'd think lots of ultraportable owners would be glad they were able to watch videos on their 'puter on long flights. What do others think?
Widescreen is great for movies and some video stuff, but poor for many other uses. So 13 inches is actually a good size for the typical user and approximates size on the old 12inch powerbooks/ibooks....
it seems to me the designers face two opposing forces:
1) iPods and iPhones increasingly provide the means for road warriors to watch videos and listen to cds
2) wide screens are useful only in viewing video but diminish readability.
the point i'm making is that wide screens were an innovation to accommodate dvd viewing (or iTMS video content viewing); if that function is being usurped by apple's smaller electronic devices, then its portables should no longer incorporate widescreen displays that limit those products' usability. Ya think?
3./ People who use their (pro) laptop to burn DVD/CD
4./ People who have other people giving them data CD/DVD
the list is ENDLESS
dell did this a while ago as well where the optical drive was a separate enclosure. Major PITA
You don't need a built-in DVD for any of that.
The problem here is that some people want the ultimate in portability, which will be enhanced by not having a built-in DVD, while others want the convenience of the built-in product.
The question that matters, really, is which is the bigger audience for this, because that is the one Apple will address.
That is, if they are coming out with this product at all.
Apple also said that Leopard will allow you to access your home "server" via .Mac from anywhere. So what if, this subnotebook debuts alongside such a "server" hard disk drive and software. This "server" could actually house two drives, the second as the backup used by Time Machine. (Today, you can plug a huge hard drive into the Airport Extreme and create such a server for home use (minus the Time Machine thing obviously), however, I wouldn't say it is super-easy to do out of the box for Grandma.)
And as a bonus, it would leapfrog past the big Microsoft announcement back in January: Windows Home Server - by making very clear use cases for such a server.
I think this is an excellent point. And it may not go far enough. Apple has told us about "back to my Mac" as well as "Time Machine", Airport Extreme hard disks, and we've already got .Mac online storage.... does Apple's plan go any further?
example 1: what happens if your light laptop "synchronises" to your desktop? you could have a subset of your data with you on the road... and even re-synchronise over the internet. Backups are not an issue, and installing apps is not an issue since you would install an application on your home Mac and it would sync onto your laptop.
example 2: if I was visiting my parents and wanted to use my own Mac... could I just login to their machine and connect "back to my Mac" home directory? And load up my own desktop, documents folders etc?
Could examples 1 & 2 synchronise with a home directory on an Airport Extreme? If Time Machine backs up my home directory to .Mac, could I login ANYWHERE on ANY Mac and have my own desktop, applications, & data (via .Mac, and/or back to my Mac)?
(I sometimes have trouble thinking inside the square)
I've had my PB12" now for 3 years now. And I refuse getting a new notebook if it isn't at least as compact as the PB12". It's all about portability for me. My only demand is light weight. Hope they get the weight right. I can do without a superdrive, it's not a must have for me. However Apple had ideas for an upside down drive on the bottom of the notebook, to make it as small as possible. That would work for me. The only problem I guess is to make the cd door construction robust and flexible.
I'm actually writing this post from my new (new to me...got on eBay for a little under $500, will have to pay another $60 for a new battery that's maybe 1.25x the size of an iPhone) Toshiba R100 ultraportable. It has become my main computer. I'm a college student and having a two-and-a-half pound, .65" thick, 12.1" screen laptop just makes sense for when I want do go out to my classes and take notes, surf the web etc. No processor-intensive stuff to do really, o the machine's 1 GHz Pentium M squeaks by as being acceptable for what I use it for.
This weekend I have the choice of using this laptop (which has no optical drive, which I don't really miss t tell you the truth on a portable machine...laptop optical drives are just copromises between performance and portability anyway), my Del Inspiron e1505 or a loaner Macbook 1st gen from the campus bookstore, for my regular work. The Macbook is a fun little machine, however I think I'd find myself running Windows on it for most of the weekend and not really using it as it's placed awkwardly in between my 12.1" 4:3 Toshiba and my 15.4" 16:10 Dell. So I'll probably end up using either the Dell (at-desk work, hooked up to webcam, mic, headphones, USB devices, external monitor) or the Toshiba (web and email and documents because it has a decent keyboard, plus remote into the Dell). I don't need a 13.3" laptop with spinning 2.5" media when I have a 15.4" laptop that does that and a 12.1" ultraportable that eschews an optical drive for portability. It does have an SD card slot though which I'm really happy about...and no, it uses a regular (1.8" I think) hard drive however I'm thinking seriously of switching it over to a 32GB SSD.
But I digress. I'd say most of the student market, if presented with a durable, small screen (12.1" would be ideal, either wide or normal aspect ratio), thin ultraportable that would be fast due to inclusion of an SSD (ULV processors aren't an option for speed gains right now...fastest one is the Core Solo at 1.33GHz) and enough memory (mine has 1.25GB, its max), you would get a TON of sales. No need for an optical drive if you're going to leave that at the dorm when at lectures, no need for a fast processor to listen to music, surf the web, edit documents, that sorta thing. Just thin and light is all we need...and trust me, I've gotten tons of comments about my laptop because it is really tailored for this type of environment if you think about it, as long as you have another computer when you need it.
To continue the discussion about optical drives, and then screens, the last time I used an optical drive was to try and rip some CDs. The CDs ripped slowly and I could've downloaded the audio files online faster than the CDs ripped. Before that, it has probably been a month or two, again for ripping CDs. Before that, a few months previous, burning sme CDs. The sort of thing I would be doing on a larger machine, not an ultraportable. I'm fine with downloading (legally) my music and either network-sending files, sending them via flash srive, or waiting till I get home to fire up my (heavy) optical drive to burn some media. In a 2-3 pound ultraportable, I see no reason to include an optical drive.
For screen size, I agree that there is some such thing as too small. However my Portege is the result of the Foleo being cancelled, and that was with a 10.4" widescreen. Then again the resolution on that screen was just 1024x600 so not quite so hard on the eyes as you might think. After the Foleo was cancelled I tried getting the Sharp Actius MM10. 10.4" screen, regular aspect ratio, XGA. I ended up with a 12.1" 1024x768 display and am happy with it. It's plenty big enough for what I use it for and if I need bigger I just close my laptop, plug it in to an external setup and go for it!
On the topic of widescreens, I dunno but I found myself squinting at the Macbook's 13.3" 1280x800 widescreen. Then again I'm laughably nearsighted but I have no complaints whatsoever about my 12.1" screen. I might have some about a 1280x800 12.1" widescreen. then again I could be convinced otherwise...
What would get me to go Mac on this note?
1. Durable construction (aluminum sounds great, right now my R100 is plastic and magnesium and it holds up fine so far)
2. SSD-based with the latest ULV processors (I want lots and lots of battery life, but understand that you can really only fit a 3-cell battery into these things, but I also would like performance if it can be had, and with SSDs it can definately be had!)
3. No optical drive to keep thickness at or below 0.8" inch (my current ultralite is .65" but I'll budge a little bit if the specs merit it) and weight below 3 pounds, preferably well below 3 pounds
4. Regular hardware and software structure that is open (e.g. Mac OS X on an Intel platform with an SSD that is upgradeable, same with memory and maybe even processor if possible). I don't want to have to hack my ultralite to get functionality I need (Foleo wouldn't have been so bad but some of these ultralite platforms).
5. Decent price ($1000 or less, preferably $800 or less, even better would be $700 or less since you're not really giving much in the way of components for an ultralite...well, except for the SSD).
Again, I have now dismissed the Macbook as too "all things to all people" and want something specially built for my needs: a flyweight that throws its weight around.Yes, I'm now ultralight-spoiled but I'll bet Apple could sell a metric buttload of these to students for which the Macbook even is a little big for carrying around to class and such, particularly in light of the ultraportable bunch!
First, it seems like all these people complaining about difficult to read fonts are forgetting that Leopard will bring us Resolution Independence. In my opinion, Resolution Independence is the most exciting feature of Leopard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crees!
Apple, with the iMac, stresses about desktop clutter. Why would they have an "accessory" as such which would add to that clutter? Makes no sense. So you're on the go and someone gives you a CD to listen too. You tell them you have to wait till you get home because you left your drive at home. Really. Whatever Apple does I see not having an optical drive plain stupid and I wouldn't purchase a machine without one.
By that logic, every iPod should have a CD drive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac
Shouldn't that say 40 gb SSD?
Closer. It should read 32GB SSD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by palegolas
I've had my PB12" now for 3 years now. And I refuse getting a new notebook if it isn't at least as compact as the PB12". It's all about portability for me. My only demand is light weight. Hope they get the weight right. I can do without a superdrive, it's not a must have for me.
I agree completely. Apple need to keep the weight below 800g in order to sell it in Japan.
Leaving the optical drive out would mean an ultraportable... but isn't a 13.3 incher too big for an ultraportable? If it is a 13.3 incher I would say these are the new MBs, and so... would need to have an optical drive.
Something just doesn't add up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamezog
I was thinking the same thing... \
Quote:
Originally Posted by eAi
And here I was about to buy a MacBook Pro... Shall I wait?
Wow. If this is going to be the ultraportable ultralight etc. etc. Sony, etc. in the Asian market are going to be sweating bullets.
October is going to be intense.
But you are right, I think the newswires are crossed between the ultralight 11"??/13", revised Black/Alu 13", and Black/Alu 15" MBPs... somethings happening!!!
What about software that 'requires' the disc to be in the drive, like Matlab? A lot of the world still does not have broadband, so how do you update, install, reinstall the OS when your downlaod speed is 2.6 kbps?
Didn't apple have a patent application a while ago for a different type of DVD drive - one that was just a disc shaped depression in the bottom of the case so there was no loading slot/drawer hardware?
If this has Penryn + WiMAX, as Intel has hinted may be the case, this will be my first Intel mac. I have a very mobile workplace, and would love a small laptop. Hell, it would virtually replace the blackberry for me.
Berg: I had a meeting with a rep from a Japanese company last week, and the guy had a Toshiba Dynabook SS30
I'd say that the rumored Apple model has the potential to be a lot better. Plus, the NAND storage easily beats the 1.8" HD.
Comments
I'm excited about all the possibilities of this new machine, but does anybody know more accurately when it might be released? dates?
AS to the need for a CDROM that really depends on the person. AT work USB flash drives have taken over from floppy and in many cases CDROM. So the demand that was there two or three years ago is now gone.
On the other hand if you travel a lot there is a bit of satisfaction in being able to play your favorite DVD's. This is still a significant usage for people that travel by air often.
Almost everything else is usually handled at the desktop. So a plug in CDROM drive is not a big deal. Often with laptops today the CDROM is unplugged to make the slot available for other things. I just don't see a issue with a optical drive free portable.
Frankly I see a lot of advantages. Depending on how flash hold up in real life, the units could be very reliable. I know at work the major issue we have had with laptops is in the hard drive. Following behind that is getting the optical drive to read CDROMS reliably. I think people are underestimating just how nice the combination of low power and reliability will be. As to the size of the units, it is a real market segment. I fully expect Apple to offer some of this sort of technology in the larger laptops.
Dave
Looking ahead, people inside the company and those close to Apple's plans say there will be a big announcement regarding a so-called subnotebook Mac. The ultra-thin device will have a 10-inch to 12-inch screen; sleek, rounded edges; and weigh less than 2 pounds.
That's a lot more like it! 2 pounds and 12 inches. All you curs better get behind me in line at the Apple Store. Heck, I think I'll forget about buying an iPhone in favor of this.
I also agree that there is a market for all three types of notebooks that are being discussed here, some people would like to have one with all the bells and whistles that can be a direct desktop replacement others want something that can be a go between for a desktop and an ultra portable model that will have HDD and Optical drive so that they can do most of what they do at home on a desktop with, and finally others want something that can travel and not make you feel like you are on a hiking trip something that will be able to travel and you can almost forget that you have it till you need it.
...If you are going to want to be listening to CDs or if watching DVDs is an option you want to have open, then get you a MB or a MBP.....
but isn't the target customer for an ultraportable the user who travels? Granted, iPods/iPhones are increasingly supplying the means of listening to music and watching videos, but I'm not sure that product displacement is complete yet: a 3.5" screen can't compete (well) against 12 to 13.3 inch displays. I'd think lots of ultraportable owners would be glad they were able to watch videos on their 'puter on long flights. What do others think?
Widescreen is great for movies and some video stuff, but poor for many other uses. So 13 inches is actually a good size for the typical user and approximates size on the old 12inch powerbooks/ibooks....
it seems to me the designers face two opposing forces:
1) iPods and iPhones increasingly provide the means for road warriors to watch videos and listen to cds
2) wide screens are useful only in viewing video but diminish readability.
the point i'm making is that wide screens were an innovation to accommodate dvd viewing (or iTMS video content viewing); if that function is being usurped by apple's smaller electronic devices, then its portables should no longer incorporate widescreen displays that limit those products' usability. Ya think?
How about this :
1./ People who watch DVDs on their laptop
2./ People who backup their laptop
3./ People who use their (pro) laptop to burn DVD/CD
4./ People who have other people giving them data CD/DVD
the list is ENDLESS
dell did this a while ago as well where the optical drive was a separate enclosure. Major PITA
You don't need a built-in DVD for any of that.
The problem here is that some people want the ultimate in portability, which will be enhanced by not having a built-in DVD, while others want the convenience of the built-in product.
The question that matters, really, is which is the bigger audience for this, because that is the one Apple will address.
That is, if they are coming out with this product at all.
Apple also said that Leopard will allow you to access your home "server" via .Mac from anywhere. So what if, this subnotebook debuts alongside such a "server" hard disk drive and software. This "server" could actually house two drives, the second as the backup used by Time Machine. (Today, you can plug a huge hard drive into the Airport Extreme and create such a server for home use (minus the Time Machine thing obviously), however, I wouldn't say it is super-easy to do out of the box for Grandma.)
And as a bonus, it would leapfrog past the big Microsoft announcement back in January: Windows Home Server - by making very clear use cases for such a server.
I think this is an excellent point. And it may not go far enough. Apple has told us about "back to my Mac" as well as "Time Machine", Airport Extreme hard disks, and we've already got .Mac online storage.... does Apple's plan go any further?
example 1: what happens if your light laptop "synchronises" to your desktop? you could have a subset of your data with you on the road... and even re-synchronise over the internet. Backups are not an issue, and installing apps is not an issue since you would install an application on your home Mac and it would sync onto your laptop.
example 2: if I was visiting my parents and wanted to use my own Mac... could I just login to their machine and connect "back to my Mac" home directory? And load up my own desktop, documents folders etc?
Could examples 1 & 2 synchronise with a home directory on an Airport Extreme? If Time Machine backs up my home directory to .Mac, could I login ANYWHERE on ANY Mac and have my own desktop, applications, & data (via .Mac, and/or back to my Mac)?
(I sometimes have trouble thinking inside the square)
This weekend I have the choice of using this laptop (which has no optical drive, which I don't really miss t tell you the truth on a portable machine...laptop optical drives are just copromises between performance and portability anyway), my Del Inspiron e1505 or a loaner Macbook 1st gen from the campus bookstore, for my regular work. The Macbook is a fun little machine, however I think I'd find myself running Windows on it for most of the weekend and not really using it as it's placed awkwardly in between my 12.1" 4:3 Toshiba and my 15.4" 16:10 Dell. So I'll probably end up using either the Dell (at-desk work, hooked up to webcam, mic, headphones, USB devices, external monitor) or the Toshiba (web and email and documents because it has a decent keyboard, plus remote into the Dell). I don't need a 13.3" laptop with spinning 2.5" media when I have a 15.4" laptop that does that and a 12.1" ultraportable that eschews an optical drive for portability. It does have an SD card slot though which I'm really happy about...and no, it uses a regular (1.8" I think) hard drive however I'm thinking seriously of switching it over to a 32GB SSD.
But I digress. I'd say most of the student market, if presented with a durable, small screen (12.1" would be ideal, either wide or normal aspect ratio), thin ultraportable that would be fast due to inclusion of an SSD (ULV processors aren't an option for speed gains right now...fastest one is the Core Solo at 1.33GHz) and enough memory (mine has 1.25GB, its max), you would get a TON of sales. No need for an optical drive if you're going to leave that at the dorm when at lectures, no need for a fast processor to listen to music, surf the web, edit documents, that sorta thing. Just thin and light is all we need...and trust me, I've gotten tons of comments about my laptop because it is really tailored for this type of environment if you think about it, as long as you have another computer when you need it.
To continue the discussion about optical drives, and then screens, the last time I used an optical drive was to try and rip some CDs. The CDs ripped slowly and I could've downloaded the audio files online faster than the CDs ripped. Before that, it has probably been a month or two, again for ripping CDs. Before that, a few months previous, burning sme CDs. The sort of thing I would be doing on a larger machine, not an ultraportable. I'm fine with downloading (legally) my music and either network-sending files, sending them via flash srive, or waiting till I get home to fire up my (heavy) optical drive to burn some media. In a 2-3 pound ultraportable, I see no reason to include an optical drive.
For screen size, I agree that there is some such thing as too small. However my Portege is the result of the Foleo being cancelled, and that was with a 10.4" widescreen. Then again the resolution on that screen was just 1024x600 so not quite so hard on the eyes as you might think. After the Foleo was cancelled I tried getting the Sharp Actius MM10. 10.4" screen, regular aspect ratio, XGA. I ended up with a 12.1" 1024x768 display and am happy with it. It's plenty big enough for what I use it for and if I need bigger I just close my laptop, plug it in to an external setup and go for it!
On the topic of widescreens, I dunno but I found myself squinting at the Macbook's 13.3" 1280x800 widescreen. Then again I'm laughably nearsighted but I have no complaints whatsoever about my 12.1" screen. I might have some about a 1280x800 12.1" widescreen. then again I could be convinced otherwise...
What would get me to go Mac on this note?
1. Durable construction (aluminum sounds great, right now my R100 is plastic and magnesium and it holds up fine so far)
2. SSD-based with the latest ULV processors (I want lots and lots of battery life, but understand that you can really only fit a 3-cell battery into these things, but I also would like performance if it can be had, and with SSDs it can definately be had!)
3. No optical drive to keep thickness at or below 0.8" inch (my current ultralite is .65" but I'll budge a little bit if the specs merit it) and weight below 3 pounds, preferably well below 3 pounds
4. Regular hardware and software structure that is open (e.g. Mac OS X on an Intel platform with an SSD that is upgradeable, same with memory and maybe even processor if possible). I don't want to have to hack my ultralite to get functionality I need (Foleo wouldn't have been so bad but some of these ultralite platforms).
5. Decent price ($1000 or less, preferably $800 or less, even better would be $700 or less since you're not really giving much in the way of components for an ultralite...well, except for the SSD).
Again, I have now dismissed the Macbook as too "all things to all people" and want something specially built for my needs: a flyweight that throws its weight around.Yes, I'm now ultralight-spoiled but I'll bet Apple could sell a metric buttload of these to students for which the Macbook even is a little big for carrying around to class and such, particularly in light of the ultraportable bunch!
Apple, with the iMac, stresses about desktop clutter. Why would they have an "accessory" as such which would add to that clutter? Makes no sense. So you're on the go and someone gives you a CD to listen too. You tell them you have to wait till you get home because you left your drive at home. Really. Whatever Apple does I see not having an optical drive plain stupid and I wouldn't purchase a machine without one.
By that logic, every iPod should have a CD drive.
Shouldn't that say 40 gb SSD?
Closer. It should read 32GB SSD.
I've had my PB12" now for 3 years now. And I refuse getting a new notebook if it isn't at least as compact as the PB12". It's all about portability for me. My only demand is light weight. Hope they get the weight right. I can do without a superdrive, it's not a must have for me.
I agree completely. Apple need to keep the weight below 800g in order to sell it in Japan.
Leaving the optical drive out would mean an ultraportable... but isn't a 13.3 incher too big for an ultraportable? If it is a 13.3 incher I would say these are the new MBs, and so... would need to have an optical drive.
Something just doesn't add up.
I was thinking the same thing...
And here I was about to buy a MacBook Pro... Shall I wait?
Wow. If this is going to be the ultraportable ultralight etc. etc. Sony, etc. in the Asian market are going to be sweating bullets.
October is going to be intense.
But you are right, I think the newswires are crossed between the ultralight 11"??/13", revised Black/Alu 13", and Black/Alu 15" MBPs... somethings happening!!!
Hey, AI:
ARE YOU GOING TO GIVE COLORWARE CREDIT FOR THAT PHOTO YOU POSTED WITHOUT CONSENT?!
-Clive
Ha ha that's what I was thinking too...
You don't need a built-in DVD for any of that.
What about software that 'requires' the disc to be in the drive, like Matlab? A lot of the world still does not have broadband, so how do you update, install, reinstall the OS when your downlaod speed is 2.6 kbps?
Didn't apple have a patent application a while ago for a different type of DVD drive - one that was just a disc shaped depression in the bottom of the case so there was no loading slot/drawer hardware?
You really don't want a 1.8" drive. They are so slow and not designed to be constantly used.
iPod hard drives are in constant use when one is watching movies on them. They can't be that bad....
I really hope this comes out sexy. The new look of alluminium on the iPods have not really been that mesmerising. Especially the new iPod Nano.
(about the nano) you're alone on that. Everyone I know thinks the nano is gorgeous.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/13994703@N02/1423885327/
Berg: I had a meeting with a rep from a Japanese company last week, and the guy had a Toshiba Dynabook SS30
I'd say that the rumored Apple model has the potential to be a lot better. Plus, the NAND storage easily beats the 1.8" HD.