As soon as I read your reply, I realized that one could put The Cube on a Cube Stand (another thing the multitude of aftermarket iPod acessory makers could build). That would get it off the desk and high enough to pop CDs in and out. Still, I think the larger size of the Dell style tower gives the components more room to breath, and makes changing/adding parts easier, and to me that's an important reason to get the tower (over an iMac) in the first place.
I agree, AI is pretty cool. I have no one to talk computers with either. Family and friends rely on me for info and just use their machines and forget about it. The thing I like about AI too is the friendly atmosphere. Nobody gives me the slightest grief when I reviel I don't even use an Apple (yet)!
The "cube stand" is a possibility. I just thought of another one. I have a monitor "arm" that I haven't used since I started using larger (panel) displays. I'm thinking of clipping it back on my desk and using it to hold a mini (or a mini-tower). A smaller computer, sitting on the arm tray could be positioned just about anywhere the arm could reach - even above one of my monitors. When not needed to insert a CD or DVD, it could be pushed aside or ____.
I've had it with the "smaller AIO, and cofined non-upgradable computers are better" design strategy of Apple. It's freaking old. It's was a nice vacation, but lets get back to the real world Apple.
The "cube stand" is a possibility. I just thought of another one. I have a monitor "arm" that I haven't used since I started using larger (panel) displays. I'm thinking of clipping it back on my desk and using it to hold a mini (or a mini-tower). A smaller computer, sitting on the arm tray could be positioned just about anywhere the arm could reach - even above one of my monitors. When not needed to insert a CD or DVD, it could be pushed aside or ____.
What about the Octopus of wires dangling out the back?
What about the Octopus of wires dangling out the back?
Somewhere, I saw a colorful, flexible tube that you run wires through. After you have the wires in, you pull on the ends and the woven plastic tube tightens up around the wires. I haven't needed anything like that since my monitors hide the cables behind them.
But you do have a point. Maybe a stand would fit the bill. Or how about a desk 'clip on' that hangs down beside the desk or under it? I think something like that already exists.
I've had it with the "smaller AIO, and cofined non-upgradable computers are better" design strategy of Apple. It's freaking old. It's was a nice vacation, but lets get back to the real world Apple.
Yes, the consumer market loves to have huge wiry boxes on their desks.
Point in case, the Mac Pro has always been quite upgradable, room for up to 12 GB RAM etc. etc. The Mac Pro was never striving to be smaller, because it's not a consumer product, it's the professional beast.
I have the Windtunnel, and it's big, loud and obtrusve. My father could've gotten a cleaner, quieter, and much much smaller (and less upgradable) iMac G5. But apparently, Pro customers don't care about looks. =S
I just got this deal in my inbox this morning and I thought I'd share it just to let people see how far off Apple's iMacs are relative to the rest of the market:
comes with a pocket 80GB drive - the value of one of those is about £80
£661
I don't know the graphics capability but it's a tower so that's not a problem
Compare to the lowest end iMac:
2GHz Core 2 Duo
2GB Ram
320GB HD
superdrive
no extras
£918
So even if you take out the screen and save maybe £250, you still get slower dual processors for the same price. The whole thing with the PPC is going to happen all over again. Why are we paying so much more for machines that are still slower than PCs? I really don't mind paying more for machines that match. I would happily buy that same machine from Apple without the pocket drive for £899 in a nice case.
Oh yeah and I was in an Apple Store recently and the iMac screens still suck and I won't be getting one. Way too shiny. Changing lighting conditions won't help because my PSP is the same with its glossy screen. I actually have to play it in near pitch black.
It's not so much that Apple are off with the iMac. Look at any COMPARABLE all in one from the PC sector? You'll be pleasantly surprised. Apple is whizzing on them with the iMac.
However, I think what you're getting at, if Apple filled in the MISSING sector in their desktop line up ie consumer tower line which is er...millions and millions of PCs...a big market...then...
They could reach or be competitive with the products you're listing. Because the Mac Pro isn't it. We're missing one desktop machine. It's obvious. It's gaping. It's a hole. It needs filling...it...!
However, if you're talking workstations? Then...yes...Apples to Apples...It's nearly competitive with big vendors (HP. Dell...) on price if you compare like with like ie workstations. eg Dell. Where's the gpu we need? Where's the 8800gtx and more workstation class GPUS? Looks up at sky. Apple has the recent cpus. But the gpu provision is mystifying. I can only guess that Leopard will see an end to the insanity. But you're not talking workstations. You're talking consumer tower territory.
With the machines you're listing? Take note, many highstreet or vendor PC sellers don't offer 'good' gpus with their PCs. So you can stick on another £200-ish for that. But...
....go to 'Mesh' Computers online and you see towers with 4 gigs of ram, a GTS Nividia card and a quad 2.4 for about a grand-ish. It's not workstation Xeon territory...but...you probably get a monitor too and Apple has nothing for the 'gamer' prosumer who wants this and not a workstation class beast. Conroe would unlock a consumer tower. Whither?
Why are we paying so much more for machines that are still slower than PCs?
The answer is that the iMac is not the same as the computer you compared it to. Apple doesn't make that computer. Compare it to a PC AIO and the story will be different.
The answer is that the iMac is not the same as the computer you compared it to. Apple doesn't make that computer. Compare it to a PC AIO and the story will be different.
Yes, but that kills the point of earning ones trolling stripes.
So you paid $1100 for your G4? No, you didn't. Not at all. And dude...for $2000 you could get a machine that would make your G4 go running to its mama. Hell, a Macbook Pro would do that. So would an iMac. And certainly a low end Mac Pro.
I paid $1600 (CDN). The Mac Pro STARTS at $2800. (Don't even get me started on why it's still more in Canada, when our buck is worth more than the US dollar now.)
Quote:
Why, oh why, are you clamoring on about Real Desktop Parts (TM). The use of laptop components has worked out fine thus far in terms of price and performance. If you need the upgrade potential, you need a Pro machine LIKE YOU HAVE NOW.
No, I don't need a pro machine. I just need a user configurable, upgradable CONSUMER machine. If the Mac Pro started at $1600 or less, and wasn't so freaking huge, then you might have a point. As it is, you do not.
If I wanted a laptop, I'd BUY a laptop. I do not want a laptop that's chained to my desk. Desktop parts are cheaper, and offer better performance. They are a better value for the consumer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777
I know we're on page 8 of this slugfest, but the simple fact is that Apple won't enter the Midtower market unless they have some 'angle' to it that makes an Apple tower look like it's worth $300. more than a Windows tower.
If it was ONLY a $300 premium, Apple would not be able to keep up with demand. If Apple announced such a product, I would order one within minutes of the announcement.
Comments
Here'S a new design from Isamu Sanada. It's big: Mac Pro replacement, but the design (black/alu) is interesting.
...
That is a great design. Wonder what it would look like inside after Apple did their magic. awesome.
Here'S a new design from Isamu Sanada. It's big: Mac Pro replacement, but the design (black/alu) is interesting.
More images at http://www.apple-style.com/laborator...ro_070919.html
Wow! Too bad the upcoming October announcements won't include that and it's 2/3 size little brother, mini-tower.
That os freakin' awesome.
Venting and Heat issues would be a major set back.
The practical design of the Cheese Grater is that it benefits from many natural air flow coolent options.
Convective Heat Transfer on that box would require more fans. More fans means more wiring and more mess.
As soon as I read your reply, I realized that one could put The Cube on a Cube Stand (another thing the multitude of aftermarket iPod acessory makers could build). That would get it off the desk and high enough to pop CDs in and out. Still, I think the larger size of the Dell style tower gives the components more room to breath, and makes changing/adding parts easier, and to me that's an important reason to get the tower (over an iMac) in the first place.
I agree, AI is pretty cool. I have no one to talk computers with either. Family and friends rely on me for info and just use their machines and forget about it. The thing I like about AI too is the friendly atmosphere. Nobody gives me the slightest grief when I reviel I don't even use an Apple (yet)!
The "cube stand" is a possibility. I just thought of another one. I have a monitor "arm" that I haven't used since I started using larger (panel) displays. I'm thinking of clipping it back on my desk and using it to hold a mini (or a mini-tower). A smaller computer, sitting on the arm tray could be positioned just about anywhere the arm could reach - even above one of my monitors. When not needed to insert a CD or DVD, it could be pushed aside or ____.
I've had it with the "smaller AIO, and cofined non-upgradable computers are better" design strategy of Apple. It's freaking old. It's was a nice vacation, but lets get back to the real world Apple.
The "cube stand" is a possibility. I just thought of another one. I have a monitor "arm" that I haven't used since I started using larger (panel) displays. I'm thinking of clipping it back on my desk and using it to hold a mini (or a mini-tower). A smaller computer, sitting on the arm tray could be positioned just about anywhere the arm could reach - even above one of my monitors. When not needed to insert a CD or DVD, it could be pushed aside or ____.
What about the Octopus of wires dangling out the back?
What about the Octopus of wires dangling out the back?
Screw that. It looks pretty.
Lemon Bon Bon.
What about the Octopus of wires dangling out the back?
Somewhere, I saw a colorful, flexible tube that you run wires through. After you have the wires in, you pull on the ends and the woven plastic tube tightens up around the wires. I haven't needed anything like that since my monitors hide the cables behind them.
But you do have a point. Maybe a stand would fit the bill. Or how about a desk 'clip on' that hangs down beside the desk or under it? I think something like that already exists.
It's similar to an Apple design, I'd be led to believe the Mac Pros would still consist their "4 handle" shape.
Absolutely. I don't see the Mac Pro giving up any size, but that mini tower mockup has me wondering what is up with Apple?
Well I still vote for B.
I've had it with the "smaller AIO, and cofined non-upgradable computers are better" design strategy of Apple. It's freaking old. It's was a nice vacation, but lets get back to the real world Apple.
Yes, the consumer market loves to have huge wiry boxes on their desks.
Point in case, the Mac Pro has always been quite upgradable, room for up to 12 GB RAM etc. etc. The Mac Pro was never striving to be smaller, because it's not a consumer product, it's the professional beast.
I have the Windtunnel, and it's big, loud and obtrusve. My father could've gotten a cleaner, quieter, and much much smaller (and less upgradable) iMac G5. But apparently, Pro customers don't care about looks. =S
http://www.dabs.com/ProductView.aspx?Quicklinx=4ms4
2.4GHz Core 2 Quad
2GB Ram
320GB HD
DVD+RW
comes with a pocket 80GB drive - the value of one of those is about £80
£661
I don't know the graphics capability but it's a tower so that's not a problem
Compare to the lowest end iMac:
2GHz Core 2 Duo
2GB Ram
320GB HD
superdrive
no extras
£918
So even if you take out the screen and save maybe £250, you still get slower dual processors for the same price. The whole thing with the PPC is going to happen all over again. Why are we paying so much more for machines that are still slower than PCs? I really don't mind paying more for machines that match. I would happily buy that same machine from Apple without the pocket drive for £899 in a nice case.
Oh yeah and I was in an Apple Store recently and the iMac screens still suck and I won't be getting one. Way too shiny. Changing lighting conditions won't help because my PSP is the same with its glossy screen. I actually have to play it in near pitch black.
However, I think what you're getting at, if Apple filled in the MISSING sector in their desktop line up ie consumer tower line which is er...millions and millions of PCs...a big market...then...
They could reach or be competitive with the products you're listing. Because the Mac Pro isn't it. We're missing one desktop machine. It's obvious. It's gaping. It's a hole. It needs filling...it...!
However, if you're talking workstations? Then...yes...Apples to Apples...It's nearly competitive with big vendors (HP. Dell...) on price if you compare like with like ie workstations. eg Dell. Where's the gpu we need? Where's the 8800gtx and more workstation class GPUS? Looks up at sky. Apple has the recent cpus. But the gpu provision is mystifying. I can only guess that Leopard will see an end to the insanity. But you're not talking workstations. You're talking consumer tower territory.
With the machines you're listing? Take note, many highstreet or vendor PC sellers don't offer 'good' gpus with their PCs. So you can stick on another £200-ish for that. But...
....go to 'Mesh' Computers online and you see towers with 4 gigs of ram, a GTS Nividia card and a quad 2.4 for about a grand-ish. It's not workstation Xeon territory...but...you probably get a monitor too and Apple has nothing for the 'gamer' prosumer who wants this and not a workstation class beast. Conroe would unlock a consumer tower. Whither?
I sympathise with your post. And many do.
Lemon Bon Bon.
Why are we paying so much more for machines that are still slower than PCs?
The answer is that the iMac is not the same as the computer you compared it to. Apple doesn't make that computer. Compare it to a PC AIO and the story will be different.
The answer is that the iMac is not the same as the computer you compared it to. Apple doesn't make that computer. Compare it to a PC AIO and the story will be different.
Yes, but that kills the point of earning ones trolling stripes.
So you paid $1100 for your G4? No, you didn't. Not at all. And dude...for $2000 you could get a machine that would make your G4 go running to its mama. Hell, a Macbook Pro would do that. So would an iMac. And certainly a low end Mac Pro.
I paid $1600 (CDN). The Mac Pro STARTS at $2800. (Don't even get me started on why it's still more in Canada, when our buck is worth more than the US dollar now.)
Why, oh why, are you clamoring on about Real Desktop Parts (TM). The use of laptop components has worked out fine thus far in terms of price and performance. If you need the upgrade potential, you need a Pro machine LIKE YOU HAVE NOW.
No, I don't need a pro machine. I just need a user configurable, upgradable CONSUMER machine. If the Mac Pro started at $1600 or less, and wasn't so freaking huge, then you might have a point. As it is, you do not.
If I wanted a laptop, I'd BUY a laptop. I do not want a laptop that's chained to my desk. Desktop parts are cheaper, and offer better performance. They are a better value for the consumer.
I know we're on page 8 of this slugfest, but the simple fact is that Apple won't enter the Midtower market unless they have some 'angle' to it that makes an Apple tower look like it's worth $300. more than a Windows tower.
If it was ONLY a $300 premium, Apple would not be able to keep up with demand. If Apple announced such a product, I would order one within minutes of the announcement.