I wonder how long it will be before the first virus is written to take advantage of the Zune Wi-Fi interlink?
Computer A gets infected, virus transfers to Zune A, Zune B downloads songs (and the virus) from Zune A, computer B is infected when Zune B is connected, bypassing the firewall and AV software.
Not the most efficient way to propagate a virus, but some hacker would find it worth trying.
Those are just a couple of reasons why we cover major Zune announcements. K
Major Zune Announcements Plural? You mean I missed the other one?
There's some serious issues with M$ and their product announcement strategy. Why is it that for the last couple of years whenever Apple introduces a new or improved product, they send out well-publicized invitations to the media and treat them all to canapes and punch at Moscone (or Flint or the SJ Civic Auditorium) with lots of fanfare.
For this supposedly exciting even M$ chooses to bring in a few trusted journalists and then tell them that there's a news embargo until 12 midnight EDT. Why all the secrecy and sneaking around? Are they totally ashamed of the Zoon? Do they not care about big parties or at least a little fanfare? No they hold a secret meeting and proclaim a news blackout until Freakin' midnight! What's with those anti-social dudes anyway? J Allard must be a total business school dropout the way he manages his announcements.
So tell me how much money MS has made in games as compared to dumping the XBox?
Sure, we don't have to worry about MS losing money, but the shareholders do. And asinine ventures like this are not good business practices. The track record of their stock has shown where these whims are taking them.
Is MS really producing this product? It was based on a Toshiba product; MS just threw money at it and hoped that would make a competitive, better product. In a very few respects, maybe there are some things better about (though I can't think of one), but there are other MP3 makers that do not have monopolistic tendencies regarding how I manage my music that I would sooner purchase more feature-filled better product from. There is really nothing new in this product that allows it to stand out from all the other MP3 players out there other than the Zune store.
And I can't see how bizarre DRM is better.
Well in the X-box vs Sony/Nintendo... They are clearly money hatting above and beyond.
The elite sells for almost a third less as much as it does for Japan. ->major loss to take market.
The royalty for each game license is almost half of the competitors if not more. (Royalties is how you're suppose to recoup HW cost)
They have been sprinkling a lot of money for exclusively, the most nortorous, is the $50mil bank into GTA4 DLC content($50mil is like 2 games)
They PR spending is probably double of their rivals.
They took out 1billion for the RROD failure problem.
There is probably a lot more MS is "dumping" in the console market. Clearly more then others. Royalties alone is telling.
Even if their division goes black, it will be a long time, as a lot of their accountants have moved the more "embarrassing" stuff away from the books (RROD 1bil was put as a "last year" deduction)
Will they do it in this market? Probably. Though they can't do it in as many ways. No such things as SW royalties in Zune. Maybe open their own recording studio? haha. Who knows.
But if MS wants to Moneyhat the mp3 market, they are quite deadly, if not suicidal. (Sony hasn't lowered its royalties to PS3 nor nintendo I believe despite what MS does- which now you know why so many multiplat-games for 360 have been coming in)
you guys are complaining about how ZUNE is all the time. That's cause your on a MAC forum, if you were on a Microsoft or PC electronics forum, they would say ZUNE is amazing and iPods aren't that great. So think what you want.
you guys are complaining about how ZUNE is all the time. That's cause your on a MAC forum, if you were on a Microsoft or PC electronics forum, they would say ZUNE is amazing and iPods aren't that great. So think what you want.
I don't think even PC electronics forum will think Zune is good...they may think ipod isn't all that, but they wouldn't hype up Zune...scandisk or creative maybe
Heck even teamXbox forums don't touch the Zune topic.
Touch-sensitive buttons? Are they serious? Apple did that 5 years ago on the 3rd generation iPod and it was the worst selling iPod ever! Nice way to keep up Microsoft. Dragging the finger across the Zune Pad. I guess that will be as close as they get to simulating the touchscreen on the iPhone/iPod Touch.
No one will miss the brown, you see it everyday after using the bathroom.
Poor example? Its pretty well known that console gaming is all about selling games even if that mean taking a lose on the hardware.
If its not a failure for the customer then who cares? We are the customer. If MS can continue to produce better products and we benifit thats the only thing that matters. I know that might sound too logical.
I don't believe we have to worry about MS losing money its all about what they take in as a company, this is simple business, its about bottom line one division will pick up the slack for others divisions not doing as well.
Same hold true for Apple unlike MS they have to make 50% on their hardware seeing only 6% of computer market owns it.
Things are fine as long as Microsoft is fighting for a market, but they have shown again and again that once they capture that market they're much more interested in maintaining that position by bullshit compatibility games than matching the competitors' quality.
Had Office used an open, structured text format between ten years ago and today, I believe everyone including Microsoft's own customers would now be enjoying office software well beyond Mellel, Excel and Keynote in quality and cheaper than Office.
extremeskater - you are an idiot. Please come back after you get into college and take some business courses. Until then, just shut up and stop making a fool out of yourself. Kthx.
Poor example? Its pretty well known that console gaming is all about selling games even if that mean taking a lose on the hardware.
If its not a failure for the customer then who cares? We are the customer. If MS can continue to produce better products and we benifit thats the only thing that matters. I know that might sound too logical.
It does matter because Microsoft is trying to make themselves a monopoly in the console space. That's not a good thing.
Quote:
Same hold true for Apple unlike MS they have to make 50% on their hardware seeing only 6% of computer market owns it.
Apple doesn't make 50% on their hardware. You only say that because you either don't know what you are talking about or it's it's inconvenient for your silly argument. Those tear-downs that you may be thinking about are only for iPods and still doesn't tell you Apple's net profit, only gross margin. Net profit isn't SRP - cost of components. There are an enormous number of normal business expenses related to the development and sale of the units that aren't considered in gross margin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater
I don't know of too many markets that MS enters that are pointless. Any company can enter a market that fails but Bill Gates isn't the richest American because he makes bad choices.
Bill Gates is the richest American because of Windows & Office. Relative to those two, most of what else Microsoft does is of little consequence in terms of bringing the money in, everything they do that succeeds is only in connection with those two products.
Poor example? Its pretty well known that console gaming is all about selling games even if that mean taking a lose on the hardware.
If its not a failure for the customer then who cares? We are the customer. If MS can continue to produce better products and we benifit thats the only thing that matters. I know that might sound too logical.
I don't believe we have to worry about MS losing money its all about what they take in as a company, this is simple business, its about bottom line one division will pick up the slack for others divisions not doing as well.
Same hold true for Apple unlike MS they have to make 50% on their hardware seeing only 6% of computer market owns it.
You are totally off base. MS has no interest in losing billions in their XBox division. They have have had no corporate roundtables where someone has has said "Don't worry about it, we'll make it up by selling Vista Ultimate for $500 or embedding Vista and Office with OEMS and ungodly prices."
MS has every intention of making money on the XBox, and this next year may actually start to make something back on their investment due to the PS3's lack of games and despite the Wii's huge popularity
The truth is, MS saw Sony as a threat to the future of ActiveX so they created the XBox. Selling at a loss was not really an issue as long as MS kept their hold on DirectX.
The Zune is another example as it attacked MS hold on it's constrictive DRM. Against popular belief, MS isn't the targeting iPod here with their Zune, they are targeting everyone else. All their previous Play4Sure partners.
MS has every intention of making money on the XBox, and this next year may actually start to make something back on their investment due to the PS3's lack of games and despite the Wii's huge popularity
Shouldn't they have been able to make a net profit sooner? I don't like it when any company just bleeds money for a half-decade or more in the hopes of eventually making money. A lot of the dot-commers did it, the difference here is that MS has a huge bank
Quote:
The truth is, MS saw Sony as a threat to the future of ActiveX so they created the XBox. Selling at a loss was not really an issue as long as MS kept their hold on ActiveX.
Don't you mean DirectX?
Quote:
The Zune is another example as it attacked MS hold on it's constrictive DRM. Against popular belief, MS isn't the targeting iPod here with their Zune, they are targeting everyone else. All their previous Play4Sure partners.
I really don't understand what you mean by that. Why would MS get into the market just to attack their own previous allies when they make up a small fraction of the US market? I say US because I think it's still a US-only product.
[1)]Shouldn't they have been able to make a net profit sooner? I don't like it when any company just bleeds money for a half-decade or more in the hopes of eventually making money. A lot of the dot-commers did it, the difference here is that MS has a huge bank
[2)]Don't you mean DirectX?
[3)]I really don't understand what you mean by that. Why would MS get into the market just to attack their own previous allies when they make up a small fraction of the US market? I say US because I think it's still a US-only product.
1) You'll have to ask MS about that.
2) Yes, I did mean DirectX. Thank you.
3) The iPod marketshare is quite entrenched. The people buying iPods seems to be quite happy with iPod, iTunes, and iTunes Store. The easier target is the non-iPod market. MS already turned it's back on it's previous allies when releasing the Zune instead of working with them so it makes sense that they are going after their marketshare first. They are, after all, the easy target. Will MS make a dent with SanDisk's flash based players? I don't know, as they tend to lower their prices dramatically for the holidays and i'm not sure MS is willing to match them.
I mean that in a more general sense though, a company that can't net a profit at something in five years of starting something doesn't sound healthy to me.
I mean that in a more general sense though, a company that can't net a profit at something in five years of starting something doesn't sound healthy to me.
I don't think their goal was to net a profit right away unless they had a slew of games miraculously come out that made it possible. Which they didn't. I think the real benefit was to keep PS at bay just enough to keep DirectX a viable option for the XBox and WIndows platforms for many a years to come.
This same mentally is working with MS turning its cheek completely or offering very low cost software sales in developing countries. Get them dependent on MS products at a loss now and you you'll have customers decades down the road.
In other words, it doesn't matter if MS doesn't make money back right away as long as it maintains it's software monopoly.
MS has a long history of failure in every market it has entered - except the OS & Office markets - and these divisions, thanks to their monopoly positions have been responsible for propping up all of MS's other failures.
I'll remember that the next time I kill a 10,000+ client Novell network and replace it with a Microsoft backbone, and then net a 30% reduction in operation cost.
Oh wait, I've done that already - four times, two of which were banks. What have you done IT related this year my friend?
Halo3 netted $300 million in a week, so perhaps somebody here doesn't understand the concept of cash flow -vs- long term profit prospects. I'm guessing you have some sympathy for Sony or something.
Quote:
it will be interesting to see if & when the Zunes are launched in Europe, what the EU reaction is to MS's anti-competitive practices....
Then again it's ok for Apple to incorporate all the software they want into their OS while Lawyers carrying Apple Laptops line up to sue Microsoft when MS simply wants to incorporate a media player in their own OS.
In other words, it doesn't matter if MS doesn't make money back right away as long as it maintains it's software monopoly.
Sorry, not happening. I deal with global enterprise support (unlike you) and have to deal with infrastructures in those foreign countries. If it's a U.S. company pushing into that area, then you typically see a Microsoft-centric view. If it's the other way around (more likely with the dollar dropping in value) then it's focused on Open Source. Sorry...I forgot...in the Apple universe it's; Apple -vs- Evil MS and all Linux / Open source advocates are clearly on the side of Apple, right?
In another project of mine we were putting together a beta lab of entirely Open Source servers and clients to test a *zero* cost software infrastructure for a school system. The teachers union shot it down and voted they wanted to stay with MS Office - period. Maybe you can lecture them about the virtues of iWare and how evil MS is for forcing them to choose only one hardware platform. Oh wait, that's Apple. I get confused sometime.
Are you guys still ranting about how Intel sucks and Motorola is a way superior architecture? I haven't visited an Apple forum lately and while you guys were dissussing pop culture urban myths.............
I'll remember that the next time I kill a 10,000+ client Novell network and replace it with a Microsoft backbone, and then net a 30% reduction in operation cost.
Maybe you weren't paying attention, but the person you quoted said "except OS & office markets". I think that type of thing qualifies as within that exception, because the "network" is really about using the OS, on the server and the client.
Quote:
Halo3 netted $300 million in a week, so perhaps somebody here doesn't understand the concept of cash flow -vs- long term profit prospects. I'm guessing you have some sympathy for Sony or something.
Huh? Money is coming in, no one said it wasn't. The money coming in doesn't meet or exceed the money going out.
Comments
Computer A gets infected, virus transfers to Zune A, Zune B downloads songs (and the virus) from Zune A, computer B is infected when Zune B is connected, bypassing the firewall and AV software.
Not the most efficient way to propagate a virus, but some hacker would find it worth trying.
Those are just a couple of reasons why we cover major Zune announcements. K
Major Zune Announcements Plural? You mean I missed the other one?
There's some serious issues with M$ and their product announcement strategy. Why is it that for the last couple of years whenever Apple introduces a new or improved product, they send out well-publicized invitations to the media and treat them all to canapes and punch at Moscone (or Flint or the SJ Civic Auditorium) with lots of fanfare.
For this supposedly exciting even M$ chooses to bring in a few trusted journalists and then tell them that there's a news embargo until 12 midnight EDT. Why all the secrecy and sneaking around? Are they totally ashamed of the Zoon? Do they not care about big parties or at least a little fanfare? No they hold a secret meeting and proclaim a news blackout until Freakin' midnight! What's with those anti-social dudes anyway? J Allard must be a total business school dropout the way he manages his announcements.
So tell me how much money MS has made in games as compared to dumping the XBox?
Sure, we don't have to worry about MS losing money, but the shareholders do. And asinine ventures like this are not good business practices. The track record of their stock has shown where these whims are taking them.
Is MS really producing this product? It was based on a Toshiba product; MS just threw money at it and hoped that would make a competitive, better product. In a very few respects, maybe there are some things better about (though I can't think of one), but there are other MP3 makers that do not have monopolistic tendencies regarding how I manage my music that I would sooner purchase more feature-filled better product from. There is really nothing new in this product that allows it to stand out from all the other MP3 players out there other than the Zune store.
And I can't see how bizarre DRM is better.
Well in the X-box vs Sony/Nintendo... They are clearly money hatting above and beyond.
The elite sells for almost a third less as much as it does for Japan. ->major loss to take market.
The royalty for each game license is almost half of the competitors if not more. (Royalties is how you're suppose to recoup HW cost)
They have been sprinkling a lot of money for exclusively, the most nortorous, is the $50mil bank into GTA4 DLC content($50mil is like 2 games)
They PR spending is probably double of their rivals.
They took out 1billion for the RROD failure problem.
There is probably a lot more MS is "dumping" in the console market. Clearly more then others. Royalties alone is telling.
Even if their division goes black, it will be a long time, as a lot of their accountants have moved the more "embarrassing" stuff away from the books (RROD 1bil was put as a "last year" deduction)
Will they do it in this market? Probably. Though they can't do it in as many ways. No such things as SW royalties in Zune. Maybe open their own recording studio? haha. Who knows.
But if MS wants to Moneyhat the mp3 market, they are quite deadly, if not suicidal. (Sony hasn't lowered its royalties to PS3 nor nintendo I believe despite what MS does- which now you know why so many multiplat-games for 360 have been coming in)
you guys are complaining about how ZUNE is all the time. That's cause your on a MAC forum, if you were on a Microsoft or PC electronics forum, they would say ZUNE is amazing and iPods aren't that great. So think what you want.
I don't think even PC electronics forum will think Zune is good...they may think ipod isn't all that, but they wouldn't hype up Zune...scandisk or creative maybe
Heck even teamXbox forums don't touch the Zune topic.
Zune is just...
No one will miss the brown, you see it everyday after using the bathroom.
Poor example? Its pretty well known that console gaming is all about selling games even if that mean taking a lose on the hardware.
If its not a failure for the customer then who cares? We are the customer. If MS can continue to produce better products and we benifit thats the only thing that matters. I know that might sound too logical.
I don't believe we have to worry about MS losing money its all about what they take in as a company, this is simple business, its about bottom line one division will pick up the slack for others divisions not doing as well.
Same hold true for Apple unlike MS they have to make 50% on their hardware seeing only 6% of computer market owns it.
Things are fine as long as Microsoft is fighting for a market, but they have shown again and again that once they capture that market they're much more interested in maintaining that position by bullshit compatibility games than matching the competitors' quality.
Had Office used an open, structured text format between ten years ago and today, I believe everyone including Microsoft's own customers would now be enjoying office software well beyond Mellel, Excel and Keynote in quality and cheaper than Office.
Article
LOL
// Have a read on how best to use your new Zune:
Article
LOL
Simply awesome! If I didn't already have an iPod case I like, I'd order one of those! LOL
// Have a read on how best to use your new Zune:
Article
LOL
That is the best thing EVER:
HIde-a-Pod:
The ultimate iPod* (and iPhone*)
Anti-Theft Device . . .
Hide it in a Zune!
.
extremeskater - you are an idiot. Please come back after you get into college and take some business courses. Until then, just shut up and stop making a fool out of yourself. Kthx.
Poor example? Its pretty well known that console gaming is all about selling games even if that mean taking a lose on the hardware.
If its not a failure for the customer then who cares? We are the customer. If MS can continue to produce better products and we benifit thats the only thing that matters. I know that might sound too logical.
It does matter because Microsoft is trying to make themselves a monopoly in the console space. That's not a good thing.
Same hold true for Apple unlike MS they have to make 50% on their hardware seeing only 6% of computer market owns it.
Apple doesn't make 50% on their hardware. You only say that because you either don't know what you are talking about or it's it's inconvenient for your silly argument. Those tear-downs that you may be thinking about are only for iPods and still doesn't tell you Apple's net profit, only gross margin. Net profit isn't SRP - cost of components. There are an enormous number of normal business expenses related to the development and sale of the units that aren't considered in gross margin.
I don't know of too many markets that MS enters that are pointless. Any company can enter a market that fails but Bill Gates isn't the richest American because he makes bad choices.
Bill Gates is the richest American because of Windows & Office. Relative to those two, most of what else Microsoft does is of little consequence in terms of bringing the money in, everything they do that succeeds is only in connection with those two products.
Poor example? Its pretty well known that console gaming is all about selling games even if that mean taking a lose on the hardware.
If its not a failure for the customer then who cares? We are the customer. If MS can continue to produce better products and we benifit thats the only thing that matters. I know that might sound too logical.
I don't believe we have to worry about MS losing money its all about what they take in as a company, this is simple business, its about bottom line one division will pick up the slack for others divisions not doing as well.
Same hold true for Apple unlike MS they have to make 50% on their hardware seeing only 6% of computer market owns it.
You are totally off base. MS has no interest in losing billions in their XBox division. They have have had no corporate roundtables where someone has has said "Don't worry about it, we'll make it up by selling Vista Ultimate for $500 or embedding Vista and Office with OEMS and ungodly prices."
MS has every intention of making money on the XBox, and this next year may actually start to make something back on their investment due to the PS3's lack of games and despite the Wii's huge popularity
The truth is, MS saw Sony as a threat to the future of ActiveX so they created the XBox. Selling at a loss was not really an issue as long as MS kept their hold on DirectX.
The Zune is another example as it attacked MS hold on it's constrictive DRM. Against popular belief, MS isn't the targeting iPod here with their Zune, they are targeting everyone else. All their previous Play4Sure partners.
MS has every intention of making money on the XBox, and this next year may actually start to make something back on their investment due to the PS3's lack of games and despite the Wii's huge popularity
Shouldn't they have been able to make a net profit sooner? I don't like it when any company just bleeds money for a half-decade or more in the hopes of eventually making money. A lot of the dot-commers did it, the difference here is that MS has a huge bank
The truth is, MS saw Sony as a threat to the future of ActiveX so they created the XBox. Selling at a loss was not really an issue as long as MS kept their hold on ActiveX.
Don't you mean DirectX?
The Zune is another example as it attacked MS hold on it's constrictive DRM. Against popular belief, MS isn't the targeting iPod here with their Zune, they are targeting everyone else. All their previous Play4Sure partners.
I really don't understand what you mean by that. Why would MS get into the market just to attack their own previous allies when they make up a small fraction of the US market? I say US because I think it's still a US-only product.
[1)]Shouldn't they have been able to make a net profit sooner? I don't like it when any company just bleeds money for a half-decade or more in the hopes of eventually making money. A lot of the dot-commers did it, the difference here is that MS has a huge bank
[2)]Don't you mean DirectX?
[3)]I really don't understand what you mean by that. Why would MS get into the market just to attack their own previous allies when they make up a small fraction of the US market? I say US because I think it's still a US-only product.
1) You'll have to ask MS about that.
2) Yes, I did mean DirectX. Thank you.
3) The iPod marketshare is quite entrenched. The people buying iPods seems to be quite happy with iPod, iTunes, and iTunes Store. The easier target is the non-iPod market. MS already turned it's back on it's previous allies when releasing the Zune instead of working with them so it makes sense that they are going after their marketshare first. They are, after all, the easy target. Will MS make a dent with SanDisk's flash based players? I don't know, as they tend to lower their prices dramatically for the holidays and i'm not sure MS is willing to match them.
1) You'll have to ask MS about that.
I mean that in a more general sense though, a company that can't net a profit at something in five years of starting something doesn't sound healthy to me.
I mean that in a more general sense though, a company that can't net a profit at something in five years of starting something doesn't sound healthy to me.
I don't think their goal was to net a profit right away unless they had a slew of games miraculously come out that made it possible. Which they didn't. I think the real benefit was to keep PS at bay just enough to keep DirectX a viable option for the XBox and WIndows platforms for many a years to come.
This same mentally is working with MS turning its cheek completely or offering very low cost software sales in developing countries. Get them dependent on MS products at a loss now and you you'll have customers decades down the road.
In other words, it doesn't matter if MS doesn't make money back right away as long as it maintains it's software monopoly.
MS has a long history of failure in every market it has entered - except the OS & Office markets - and these divisions, thanks to their monopoly positions have been responsible for propping up all of MS's other failures.
I'll remember that the next time I kill a 10,000+ client Novell network and replace it with a Microsoft backbone, and then net a 30% reduction in operation cost.
Oh wait, I've done that already - four times, two of which were banks. What have you done IT related this year my friend?
Halo3 netted $300 million in a week, so perhaps somebody here doesn't understand the concept of cash flow -vs- long term profit prospects. I'm guessing you have some sympathy for Sony or something.
it will be interesting to see if & when the Zunes are launched in Europe, what the EU reaction is to MS's anti-competitive practices....
Then again it's ok for Apple to incorporate all the software they want into their OS while Lawyers carrying Apple Laptops line up to sue Microsoft when MS simply wants to incorporate a media player in their own OS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrite
In other words, it doesn't matter if MS doesn't make money back right away as long as it maintains it's software monopoly.
Sorry, not happening. I deal with global enterprise support (unlike you) and have to deal with infrastructures in those foreign countries. If it's a U.S. company pushing into that area, then you typically see a Microsoft-centric view. If it's the other way around (more likely with the dollar dropping in value) then it's focused on Open Source. Sorry...I forgot...in the Apple universe it's; Apple -vs- Evil MS and all Linux / Open source advocates are clearly on the side of Apple, right?
In another project of mine we were putting together a beta lab of entirely Open Source servers and clients to test a *zero* cost software infrastructure for a school system. The teachers union shot it down and voted they wanted to stay with MS Office - period. Maybe you can lecture them about the virtues of iWare and how evil MS is for forcing them to choose only one hardware platform. Oh wait, that's Apple. I get confused sometime.
Are you guys still ranting about how Intel sucks and Motorola is a way superior architecture? I haven't visited an Apple forum lately and while you guys were dissussing pop culture urban myths.............
I'll remember that the next time I kill a 10,000+ client Novell network and replace it with a Microsoft backbone, and then net a 30% reduction in operation cost.
Maybe you weren't paying attention, but the person you quoted said "except OS & office markets". I think that type of thing qualifies as within that exception, because the "network" is really about using the OS, on the server and the client.
Halo3 netted $300 million in a week, so perhaps somebody here doesn't understand the concept of cash flow -vs- long term profit prospects. I'm guessing you have some sympathy for Sony or something.
Huh? Money is coming in, no one said it wasn't. The money coming in doesn't meet or exceed the money going out.