"i don't get this. the iphone already does this and more, what would a larger form factor give you other than something harder to transport?"
The iPhone is not even close to a PDA! Missing some features? Yeah, like a BRICK is missing some PDA features. It doesn't have any PDA functionality at all! Yes, you can display your calendar - in READ-ONLY mode!
Have you ever USED a Newton? On a Newton you can actually update data, or enter new data. Its Agenda mode was brilliant - show both To-Do items and Calendar items on the same page. Many folks even used it as a word processor - there was no limit as to how much text you could enter.
The iPhone? It has a web browser? (sigh) So does the Nintendo DS, but nobody calls it a PDA. Get real.
I doubt this rumor is true, because Steve has made stupid statements like 'a cellphone can be your PDA' which, for anyone with a more than slightly complicated life, is absolutely stupid.
The iPhone is not even close to a PDA! Missing some features? Yeah, like a BRICK is missing some PDA features. It doesn't have any PDA functionality at all! Yes, you can display your calendar - in READ-ONLY mode!
Have you ever USED a Newton?
Have you ever USED an iPhone? Actually, there is a common misconception that you cannot edit data on an iPhone. This is false. The iPhone allows for both viewing and editing calendars. I believe that you are confusing some of the read-only features with the iPod touch. I have not yet used an iPod touch although I have read that contacts at least are read-only. Can anyone confirm this?
I do agree with you that the iPhone is not ready to replace many people's PDAs just yet, and that the Newton was a truly magically device. However, since it appears as if you have not yet used an iPhone I recommend it; I am curious to hear how close you think it could be to a fully-functional PDA once you have tried it out.
I might buy this. I don't have an iPhone or Touch and it looks like Apple will continue to fight 3rd party software on both devices. If this has wifi and Safari and is open I'd be tempted.
This assumes of course that Apple doesn't cripple it to prevent cannibalizing other sales. Sadly, this is a pretty big assumption lately.
With the ipod touch...Apple HAS released a new PDA. All they have to do is add more functionality to it. Its got the touch pad, wifi....all it needs is some programs and bingo...the new newton.
With the ipod touch...Apple HAS released a new PDA. All they have to do is add more functionality to it. Its got the touch pad, wifi....all it needs is some programs and bingo...the new newton.
I'm really concerned that my PDA may never come. If this Mac tablet is really as BIG as people are speculating it is, my need is smack-dab in the middle of the Touch and the Tablet.
I will only buy another portable (in addition to my MBP) if it's small enough to clip to my belt.
Until now, all I've ever wanted was a Touch-sized device with iCal capability. A video camera would be nice, but I'll buy without. If the Tablet skips over me, I think I'll be part of a pretty big crowd of disappointed people with $400 they want to spend on a PDA.
Well...I think if thats what you want(i do too)...we are safe buying the ipod touch....because all the things you want will eventually be offered with a simple software download from Apple.
The ipod touch already has all the "physical" PDA features...we just have to wait for the software.
In fact, I read an interview with Steve Jobs where he alluded to "Flash" and "email" and "calander" functions likely in the near future as a download.
I travel ALOT overseas...and was going to get an iphone....but the HORRIBLE inability to unlock the phone and use other sim cards when overseas forces you to become victim to insane roaming fees and data charges...EVEN when you aren't using your iphone! I've heard terrible horror stories about $3,000 bills.
Anyway....the ipod touch is perfect...and with more downloaded software will be a nice little PDA.
I'd like a camera too. Someday future models will get em. But basically I'd really like to see ichat on the ipod touch. The addition of being able to use a chat program would make the ipod touch become THE must have device from everyone from students to adults.
I guess they didn't include it to not piss off AT&T with its iphone contract.
I want to be able to sync data from both my beloved Apple OS Computer here in my comfortable home and with the retarded, idiotic, cursed Windows contraption at work. I want my personal addresses and my work addresses available on my ... Newton. I want personal and work documents available where ever I am.
Newton... I still can't believe it. It's like the Galactica has found earth.
V/R,
Aries 1B
PS: I know that this post wasn't filled with blinding insight, but I don't want this thread to sink away into oblivion. I've been waiting for this thread since 1998!
That's correct, although you will be able to add calendar events after the next software update.
I'm ready to jump for joy about this, but I have yet to see it corroborated. Have you seen a source besides the guy who claims to have received an e-mail from the Big Cheese?
A sleek modern PDA with enough "juice" would actually be a semi-replacement for carrying a laptop. It would also be much easier to type on with human-size fingers!
The future of laptops is ultra-portable designs that don't get as hot as an oven and have sturdy flash-drives and get superb battery power. I would rather be carrying something like this while I'm traveling than a full-size laptop.
Indeed, but I think this modern PDA will keep its size down by including the technology for some type of projection keyboard. For example, one could use the touch screen for quick jobs done on the fly, but when you need to sit down and type, then you could activate the projection keyboard, perhaps by docking the device in an upright position.
There are several permutations of projection keyboards in development and even on the market that uses a laser to project a keyboard image on a surface and sense finger positions while you type. The camera is tiny.
There's even one that uses special gloves that turn your hands into both the typing device and the keyboard. You type on the keys by pressing your fingers against your thumbs in much the same way as you do on an actual keyboard. (see http://www.kittytech.com/index.html)
Fascinating report, but I'm really not sure exactly who this product would be for.
PDAs are currently dying - they're being wiped out by smartphones.
Apple laptops are about to get even sleeker and thinner.
The main markets would seem to be vertical markets (doctors, business users for meetings, people taking notes or needing net access while walking/working) or as an e-reader where using a notebook is impossible or a nuisance (e.g. reading on the train). But that's not what Apple is interested in. They're interested in the mass market of mainstream consumers.
So, what's the mainstream use? Why do you need one of these in addition to a computer, iPod, and/or (smart)phone?
And how many people would be willing to pay (let's say) $599 for one? Or even $499?
I'm intrigued, mind you, but I'm unsure this would find a place in the mianstream market.
I agree. What has been the problem for vertical markets and business users is that all mobile devices now are either too small like the palm size pda's and blackberries or too large like the 7" UMPC's. Thus we use laptops and subnotebooks even though most would rather have a pocket laptop. The gap that this type of device should be designed to fill is a simple computer that can have the largest screen and keyboard that would still fit into typical suit and sport coats jacket inside pockets. If this ran any desktop application I as a business person using primarily MS devices would buy one in a heart beat and pay anywhere from $700 to $1800 for one. Most would probably feel a price about $1000 would be a good price point.
cool thought but just like the pen input and thumb input; it is not that mainstream. Technology needs to make our lives easier. The mainstream market already prefers a touch type keyboard. The market for this can be huge and it is the many whom want to shed a laptop. Thus that market already prefers and uses touch type keyboards so trying to re-invent the wheel with a technology not perfected nor desired yet is not a good idea. Just keep it simple. Did you know with all our advancements in computers there has yet to be a pocket laptop with a touch type keyboard that could run dekstop programs? Never. Thus keep it simple and Apple could just blow away market share of typical MS laptops for all the more business users that would rather the mobility and do not need a super fast computer.
I agree. What has been the problem for vertical markets and business users is that all mobile devices now are either too small like the palm size pda's and blackberries or too large like the 7" UMPC's.
That I would agree with.
Quote:
Thus we use laptops and subnotebooks even though most would rather have a pocket laptop. The gap that this type of device should be designed to fill is a simple computer that can have the largest screen and keyboard that would still fit into typical suit and sport coats jacket inside pockets. If this ran any desktop application I as a business person using primarily MS devices would buy one in a heart beat and pay anywhere from $700 to $1800 for one. Most would probably feel a price about $1000 would be a good price point.
This is where I disagree. The device simply can not be more expensive than the generic laptops that businesses buy for their employees. Thus we are talking about something that begins at $250. Or to put it in another way, this would be a device in the same class as the current Touch. The primary differences would be different I/O.
I use the word 'Begin' above very deliberately as the important thing is that this sort of device needs optional capabilities. For example some business might not want a cell capability in the device, while others would very much like such. Obviously capabilities add to the price.
This is where I disagree. The device simply can not be more expensive than the generic laptops that businesses buy for their employees. Thus we are talking about something that begins at $250. Or to put it in another way, this would be a device in the same class as the current Touch. The primary differences would be different I/O.
I use the word 'Begin' above very deliberately as the important thing is that this sort of device needs optional capabilities. For example some business might not want a cell capability in the device, while others would very much like such. Obviously capabilities add to the price.
Thanks
Dave
What I see most companies spend for their sale and managers is often $1000-$2000. Most people in marketing or management also have the ability to decide what they want to buy. For me I think anywhere under $1500 would be a no brainer for a pocket laptop. It would be great to see something like that cheap but I doubt it would go for prices as low as $250 maybe $500? At 500 that would sell like crazy as that is so cheap and so much more mobile and practical in the field. At that price it would be sold all the way down to blue collar mobile workers.
2020? You'll barely be able to find a 2TB flash drive on eBay it will be so outdated by then.
I think Clive's statement holds more than your examples do, because your examples are highly specialized and at unobtanium pricing. The cost/GB of flash seems to drop in half every year. 64GB should retail at $600 in Jan 2009. $300 in Jan 2010 $150 in 2011, $75 in 2012. Following the progression, 2TB should be about a $10 thumb drive in 2020, assuming the progression holds, there's no apocalypse and we don't just transfer stuff over the internet instead of carrying it around.
I think Clive's statement holds more than your examples do, because your examples are highly specialized and at unobtanium pricing. The cost/GB of flash seems to drop in half every year. 64GB should retail at $600 in Jan 2009. $300 in Jan 2010 $150 in 2011, $75 in 2012. Following the progression, 2TB should be about a $10 thumb drive in 2020, assuming the progression holds, there's no apocalypse and we don't just transfer stuff over the internet instead of carrying it around.
His examples seem to be in reference to the availability of the technology, not really the pricing. I think he's misjudging how fast technology develops. My examples show that in a few years, 2TB will be doable. But your pricing estimate also seems to disagree with him. Remember he's saying that it just may be available in 2020 where you have them not just being available but at prices way, way lower than what 64GB is now.
His examples seem to be in reference to the availability of the technology, not really the pricing. I think he's misjudging how fast technology develops. My examples show that in a few years, 2TB will be doable. But your pricing estimate also seems to disagree with him. Remember he's saying that it just may be available in 2020 where you have them not just being available but at prices way, way lower than what 64GB is now.
I think we're both taking Clive out of context. They were talking about how much would be put into an iPod touch, which is different than a generic solid state drive. He has the silicon fab technology right, but that doesn't reflect the price of those chips. What's available in iPods seems to be doubling every two years.
Comments
The iPhone is not even close to a PDA! Missing some features? Yeah, like a BRICK is missing some PDA features. It doesn't have any PDA functionality at all! Yes, you can display your calendar - in READ-ONLY mode!
Have you ever USED a Newton? On a Newton you can actually update data, or enter new data. Its Agenda mode was brilliant - show both To-Do items and Calendar items on the same page. Many folks even used it as a word processor - there was no limit as to how much text you could enter.
The iPhone? It has a web browser? (sigh) So does the Nintendo DS, but nobody calls it a PDA. Get real.
I doubt this rumor is true, because Steve has made stupid statements like 'a cellphone can be your PDA' which, for anyone with a more than slightly complicated life, is absolutely stupid.
The iPhone is not even close to a PDA! Missing some features? Yeah, like a BRICK is missing some PDA features. It doesn't have any PDA functionality at all! Yes, you can display your calendar - in READ-ONLY mode!
Have you ever USED a Newton?
Have you ever USED an iPhone?
I do agree with you that the iPhone is not ready to replace many people's PDAs just yet, and that the Newton was a truly magically device. However, since it appears as if you have not yet used an iPhone I recommend it; I am curious to hear how close you think it could be to a fully-functional PDA once you have tried it out.
I have not yet used an iPod touch although I have read that contacts at least are read-only. Can anyone confirm this?
I think contacts can be added, just not calendar events.
This assumes of course that Apple doesn't cripple it to prevent cannibalizing other sales. Sadly, this is a pretty big assumption lately.
With the ipod touch...Apple HAS released a new PDA. All they have to do is add more functionality to it. Its got the touch pad, wifi....all it needs is some programs and bingo...the new newton.
I don't get it.
With the ipod touch...Apple HAS released a new PDA. All they have to do is add more functionality to it. Its got the touch pad, wifi....all it needs is some programs and bingo...the new newton.
I'm really concerned that my PDA may never come. If this Mac tablet is really as BIG as people are speculating it is, my need is smack-dab in the middle of the Touch and the Tablet.
I will only buy another portable (in addition to my MBP) if it's small enough to clip to my belt.
Until now, all I've ever wanted was a Touch-sized device with iCal capability. A video camera would be nice, but I'll buy without. If the Tablet skips over me, I think I'll be part of a pretty big crowd of disappointed people with $400 they want to spend on a PDA.
The ipod touch already has all the "physical" PDA features...we just have to wait for the software.
In fact, I read an interview with Steve Jobs where he alluded to "Flash" and "email" and "calander" functions likely in the near future as a download.
I travel ALOT overseas...and was going to get an iphone....but the HORRIBLE inability to unlock the phone and use other sim cards when overseas forces you to become victim to insane roaming fees and data charges...EVEN when you aren't using your iphone! I've heard terrible horror stories about $3,000 bills.
Anyway....the ipod touch is perfect...and with more downloaded software will be a nice little PDA.
I'd like a camera too. Someday future models will get em. But basically I'd really like to see ichat on the ipod touch. The addition of being able to use a chat program would make the ipod touch become THE must have device from everyone from students to adults.
I guess they didn't include it to not piss off AT&T with its iphone contract.
That just blows. :-)
Newton... I still can't believe it. It's like the Galactica has found earth.
V/R,
Aries 1B
PS: I know that this post wasn't filled with blinding insight, but I don't want this thread to sink away into oblivion. I've been waiting for this thread since 1998!
I think contacts can be added, just not calendar events.
That's correct, although you will be able to add calendar events after the next software update.
That's correct, although you will be able to add calendar events after the next software update.
I'm ready to jump for joy about this, but I have yet to see it corroborated. Have you seen a source besides the guy who claims to have received an e-mail from the Big Cheese?
A sleek modern PDA with enough "juice" would actually be a semi-replacement for carrying a laptop. It would also be much easier to type on with human-size fingers!
The future of laptops is ultra-portable designs that don't get as hot as an oven and have sturdy flash-drives and get superb battery power. I would rather be carrying something like this while I'm traveling than a full-size laptop.
Indeed, but I think this modern PDA will keep its size down by including the technology for some type of projection keyboard. For example, one could use the touch screen for quick jobs done on the fly, but when you need to sit down and type, then you could activate the projection keyboard, perhaps by docking the device in an upright position.
There are several permutations of projection keyboards in development and even on the market that uses a laser to project a keyboard image on a surface and sense finger positions while you type. The camera is tiny.
There's even one that uses special gloves that turn your hands into both the typing device and the keyboard. You type on the keys by pressing your fingers against your thumbs in much the same way as you do on an actual keyboard. (see http://www.kittytech.com/index.html)
fletchbiz
Fascinating report, but I'm really not sure exactly who this product would be for.
PDAs are currently dying - they're being wiped out by smartphones.
Apple laptops are about to get even sleeker and thinner.
The main markets would seem to be vertical markets (doctors, business users for meetings, people taking notes or needing net access while walking/working) or as an e-reader where using a notebook is impossible or a nuisance (e.g. reading on the train). But that's not what Apple is interested in. They're interested in the mass market of mainstream consumers.
So, what's the mainstream use? Why do you need one of these in addition to a computer, iPod, and/or (smart)phone?
And how many people would be willing to pay (let's say) $599 for one? Or even $499?
I'm intrigued, mind you, but I'm unsure this would find a place in the mianstream market.
I agree. What has been the problem for vertical markets and business users is that all mobile devices now are either too small like the palm size pda's and blackberries or too large like the 7" UMPC's. Thus we use laptops and subnotebooks even though most would rather have a pocket laptop. The gap that this type of device should be designed to fill is a simple computer that can have the largest screen and keyboard that would still fit into typical suit and sport coats jacket inside pockets. If this ran any desktop application I as a business person using primarily MS devices would buy one in a heart beat and pay anywhere from $700 to $1800 for one. Most would probably feel a price about $1000 would be a good price point.
cool thought but just like the pen input and thumb input; it is not that mainstream. Technology needs to make our lives easier. The mainstream market already prefers a touch type keyboard. The market for this can be huge and it is the many whom want to shed a laptop. Thus that market already prefers and uses touch type keyboards so trying to re-invent the wheel with a technology not perfected nor desired yet is not a good idea. Just keep it simple. Did you know with all our advancements in computers there has yet to be a pocket laptop with a touch type keyboard that could run dekstop programs? Never. Thus keep it simple and Apple could just blow away market share of typical MS laptops for all the more business users that would rather the mobility and do not need a super fast computer.
I agree. What has been the problem for vertical markets and business users is that all mobile devices now are either too small like the palm size pda's and blackberries or too large like the 7" UMPC's.
That I would agree with.
Thus we use laptops and subnotebooks even though most would rather have a pocket laptop. The gap that this type of device should be designed to fill is a simple computer that can have the largest screen and keyboard that would still fit into typical suit and sport coats jacket inside pockets. If this ran any desktop application I as a business person using primarily MS devices would buy one in a heart beat and pay anywhere from $700 to $1800 for one. Most would probably feel a price about $1000 would be a good price point.
This is where I disagree. The device simply can not be more expensive than the generic laptops that businesses buy for their employees. Thus we are talking about something that begins at $250. Or to put it in another way, this would be a device in the same class as the current Touch. The primary differences would be different I/O.
I use the word 'Begin' above very deliberately as the important thing is that this sort of device needs optional capabilities. For example some business might not want a cell capability in the device, while others would very much like such. Obviously capabilities add to the price.
Thanks
Dave
That I would agree with.
This is where I disagree. The device simply can not be more expensive than the generic laptops that businesses buy for their employees. Thus we are talking about something that begins at $250. Or to put it in another way, this would be a device in the same class as the current Touch. The primary differences would be different I/O.
I use the word 'Begin' above very deliberately as the important thing is that this sort of device needs optional capabilities. For example some business might not want a cell capability in the device, while others would very much like such. Obviously capabilities add to the price.
Thanks
Dave
What I see most companies spend for their sale and managers is often $1000-$2000. Most people in marketing or management also have the ability to decide what they want to buy. For me I think anywhere under $1500 would be a no brainer for a pocket laptop. It would be great to see something like that cheap but I doubt it would go for prices as low as $250 maybe $500? At 500 that would sell like crazy as that is so cheap and so much more mobile and practical in the field. At that price it would be sold all the way down to blue collar mobile workers.
Excuse me? Did you say 2012? 2TB?!?!
...two full cycles of Moore's Law units 2012... putting us at 64GB... 128GB at the very best. We can expect 2TB flash by 2020, maybe.
Can you say 2009?
A company called Adtron came out with a 160GB a year ago!
http://www.adtron.com/newsroom/25fb-...tate-Disk.html
A company called BitMicro Networks came out with a 416GB drive a little while ago
http://www.bitmicro.com/press_news_r...s_20071023.php
then plans to release an 832GB model by the fall.
http://www.bitmicro.com/press_news_r...s_20080107.php
2020? You'll barely be able to find a 2TB flash drive on eBay it will be so outdated by then.
Can you say 2009?
A company called Adtron came out with a 160GB a year ago!
http://www.adtron.com/newsroom/25fb-...tate-Disk.html
A company called BitMicro Networks came out with a 416GB drive a little while ago
http://www.bitmicro.com/press_news_r...s_20071023.php
then plans to release an 832GB model by the fall.
http://www.bitmicro.com/press_news_r...s_20080107.php
2020? You'll barely be able to find a 2TB flash drive on eBay it will be so outdated by then.
I think Clive's statement holds more than your examples do, because your examples are highly specialized and at unobtanium pricing. The cost/GB of flash seems to drop in half every year. 64GB should retail at $600 in Jan 2009. $300 in Jan 2010 $150 in 2011, $75 in 2012. Following the progression, 2TB should be about a $10 thumb drive in 2020, assuming the progression holds, there's no apocalypse and we don't just transfer stuff over the internet instead of carrying it around.
I think Clive's statement holds more than your examples do, because your examples are highly specialized and at unobtanium pricing. The cost/GB of flash seems to drop in half every year. 64GB should retail at $600 in Jan 2009. $300 in Jan 2010 $150 in 2011, $75 in 2012. Following the progression, 2TB should be about a $10 thumb drive in 2020, assuming the progression holds, there's no apocalypse and we don't just transfer stuff over the internet instead of carrying it around.
His examples seem to be in reference to the availability of the technology, not really the pricing. I think he's misjudging how fast technology develops. My examples show that in a few years, 2TB will be doable. But your pricing estimate also seems to disagree with him. Remember he's saying that it just may be available in 2020 where you have them not just being available but at prices way, way lower than what 64GB is now.
His examples seem to be in reference to the availability of the technology, not really the pricing. I think he's misjudging how fast technology develops. My examples show that in a few years, 2TB will be doable. But your pricing estimate also seems to disagree with him. Remember he's saying that it just may be available in 2020 where you have them not just being available but at prices way, way lower than what 64GB is now.
I think we're both taking Clive out of context. They were talking about how much would be put into an iPod touch, which is different than a generic solid state drive. He has the silicon fab technology right, but that doesn't reflect the price of those chips. What's available in iPods seems to be doubling every two years.