Yeah, I had a RAZR too and I would definitely say that it didn't work so hot. They're omitting this option for a reason. They didn't just "forget" it, or over look it. The technology isn't there. And I would say that "pretty well" isn't good enough for Apple.
would this be a software update or require a hardware upgrade. trying to guess how soon this could be added
Although I look forward to getting more software updates, in my opinion Apple has released iPhone updates really quickly - not slowly. I'm not likely to change anyone's view on the subject but please consider the following :
#1 - Since introducing the iPhone in June over a million units were sold and at least three updates have come out. That averages an official update every two months. Of all the software that you're using now, from your operating system to your browser, etc.., which one of them have made three updates this year, let alone the past few months?
#2 - Keeping in mind #1, it is very hard to beta-test or search for bugs in software before officially releasing it to the general public. No software is every perfect and with what a programmer makes work for one set-up may cause havoc with another. Each new feature of the iPhone has to work with what it already has as well as what they have in mind for the future.
#3 - Apple knew they were opening the iPhone to 3rd parties developers, which means they very well aren't going to devote too much resources to introduce features that other people and companies can do just as well, if not better. Let some people focus on what the iPhone can't do in the present, some are working on what it can do in the near future. By the end of 2008, many high demand features will be available in the iPhone. In other words, some features will come out after third parties release what they've come up with.
#4 - Of at least three updates and over a million iPhone in use, none of those updates caused widespread grief or damage. Some may have been affected by the locked phone software problem but it wasn't as if half, or even a fifth, of all users suddenly had problems with their phone.
And lastly . . .
#5 - Of at least three updates it seems none of them disabled previously demanded features. Almost anywhere else in the software industry, many updates tend to cause previously working features to become unreliable or just fail outright. So when a new update for the iPhone comes out they all have a quick and easy, seamless, integration to the iPhone without undue grief or concern.
I agree with everyone that there are features that are missing and I look forward to many of those features/suggestions. It's merely my opinion that once you look at it from a software/developer point of view, Apple is staking a lot on their very first entry into the cellular market. With so much on the line, I'm impressed that they've moved so far, so fast, with most of us expecting that when the next update comes out - it will just work better than it did before.
Kephisto, only one update so far has added new features. The other two updates were bug fixes.
I guess I shouldn't complain. Tiger averaged 2 months between updates. Given the iPhone has been out for 6 months now, 3 updates would be on par with Apple's pace.
I'm just wanting them to add voice dialing so CT State Police doesn't stop me trying to dial a family member!
The multi-touch interface isn't perfect, but it's included. Bluetooth connectivity isn't perfect, but it's included. The Safari web browser isn't perfect, but it's included.
Just because something isn't perfect doesn't mean it shouldn't be included. Voice dialing works well enough that it should be included.
As I mentioned previously, I had no problem with my RAZR's voice dialing. Those that have problems either have varying voice pitches, varying enunciation, or do not record their sample voices for each name in a quiet environment.
Yeah, you brought up the "perfect point" when you mention OS X. Personally, I think OS X, multi-touch, Bluetooth and Safari have been brought much closer to perfection than voice recognition. I must not be alone either seeing as how they're all included on the iPhone and voice dialing isn't. If its just a simple software upgrade away, then why hasn't Apple included it as well? A company that obsesses over the design of their products. What happened then? Slipped their minds during the years and years of development?
Kephisto, only one update so far has added new features. The other two updates were bug fixes.
I guess I shouldn't complain. Tiger averaged 2 months between updates. Given the iPhone has been out for 6 months now, 3 updates would be on par with Apple's pace.
About only one update adding new features and the others being bug fixes, that's a good point, Southerndoc. Thanks for pointing that out - I missed it. What would be slow is if another five or six months pass and another update (with new features) wasn't released.
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Originally Posted by southerndoc
I'm just wanting them to add voice dialing so CT State Police doesn't stop me trying to dial a family member!
Maybe they'll add voice dialing. If they do, I won't complain.
Perhaps the core reason voice dialing isn't on the iPhone is that in concept it goes against what makes the iPhone so unique : Apple's OS X using their new multi - touch technology. In other words, why should they jump to supporting anything that bypasses their new multi-touch interface? They might add it after they reached the target sales they were aiming for.
Voice dialing has it's pros and cons and many cell phones can do it, but with all the patents and upcoming devices Apple is working on, all using a variation of multi-touch, to me it makes sense this multi - touch is an upcoming platform for Apple, not just a cell phone. That likely means they'll wait before introducing anything that allows users to bypass the interface, such as voice dialing.
So it's not so much a technical or software problem to be solved, it's rather a preference of the design team (and from on high, ahem) not to support it - for now.
...There's nothing more frustrating than something that doesn't work 100%. I can see apple adding this feature once it becomes foolproof. But right now, I just don't think its there.
You mean like a lack of Flash, no copy/paste, and a half-assed TXT program?
Perhaps the core reason voice dialing isn't on the iPhone is that in concept it goes against what makes the iPhone so unique : Apple's OS X using their new multi - touch technology. In other words, why should they jump to supporting anything that bypasses their new multi-touch interface? They might add it after they reached the target sales they were aiming for.
Voice dialing has it's pros and cons and many cell phones can do it, but with all the patents and upcoming devices Apple is working on, all using a variation of multi-touch, to me it makes sense this multi - touch is an upcoming platform for Apple, not just a cell phone. That likely means they'll wait before introducing anything that allows users to bypass the interface, such as voice dialing...
While you shouldn't most people use their phones in the car. Voice dialing would make the whole experience safer just like a hands-free setup does. Also, by your logic Apple should have left off bluetooth headset support and that cool little button on the headphones because they bypass the Multitouch interface.
PS. The inputs needed to dial a number are just touch, not multitouch.
You mean like a lack of Flash, no copy/paste, and a half-assed TXT program?
The thing with the iphone in its current state is that although it excells in areas to such an extent it makes Nokia and the rest look silly, at the same time it lacks in so many ways on a basic level that its also inferior to even the lowest of the low end phones.
No flash, only a 2mp cam (thats not to bad as the cam is actually quite decent in good conditions), no sms forwarding, no copy and paste of text, no mp3s as ringones, phone is too expensive on a pricey contract too. This phone had so much potential yet through Apples own greed it has lost out on many sales. If only had subsidised the phone like all other phones are, if only they had made it available on a 12 month contract again like all other phones are.
The only posative thing is that its sucessor(s) will be announced soon. Whether Apple will learn from their mistakes though remains to be seen.
Too expensive? Sales lost because of "missing" features? Do you have any real data on this? Do you have evidence of lost sales beyond the basic maxim that decreasing price almost always increases sales? I'll save you the trouble: you don't!
The phone has lots of potential, and delivers on much of it. To say that the only positive thing about the phone is that another model is expected soon is just plain silly. I'll wager that Apple will hit its goal of 10 million phones in '08, which would be very impressive considering all the sales you claim they've lost. You might consider expanding your perspective a bit.
Overall, though, this message board is comedy. You have a very small group of message board nerds here complaining about all the deficiencies, but the average user is not concerned about iChat over wi-fi or whether the phone can be used as a hard disk. If you remember nothing else, remember this: buying something now that doesn't meet your needs on the hope that at some point down the road it will be what you want and need is NOT ordinary consumer behavior. Now, if your other phone died, and you didn't want to waist money on another phone while you waited for the iPhone to meet your expectations, then that's a slightly different scenario, but truthfully your decision not to purchase is much more powerful than buying and waiting. If anything, all the people that have bought the phone despite the fact that its feature set aren't what they like have actually slowed the pace of revision.
Too expensive? Sales lost because of "missing" features? Do you have any real data on this? Do you have evidence of lost sales beyond the basic maxim that decreasing price almost always increases sales? I'll save you the trouble: you don't!
The phone has lots of potential, and delivers on much of it. To say that the only positive thing about the phone is that another model is expected soon is just plain silly. I'll wager that Apple will hit its goal of 10 million phones in '08, which would be very impressive considering all the sales you claim they've lost. You might consider expanding your perspective a bit.
Overall, though, this message board is comedy. You have a very small group of message board nerds here complaining about all the deficiencies, but the average user is not concerned about iChat over wi-fi or whether the phone can be used as a hard disk. If you remember nothing else, remember this: buying something now that doesn't meet your needs on the hope that at some point down the road it will be what you want and need is NOT ordinary consumer behavior. Now, if your other phone died, and you didn't want to waist money on another phone while you waited for the iPhone to meet your expectations, then that's a slightly different scenario, but truthfully your decision not to purchase is much more powerful than buying and waiting. If anything, all the people that have bought the phone despite the fact that its feature set aren't what they like have actually slowed the pace of revision.
In the US you guys are qu9ite behind in the mobile market. Moto is the best thing you have to shout about where as we shout about 5mp cameras, VGA video recording and HSDPA. The iphone was always going to do well there as in terms of its shortcomings, it didnt really matter as you lot dont get much at all anyway. Heck it took you over a year after N95 launched over here to just to get a NAM.
And as for "nerds" well its not our fault our needs are basic. The European market is much more advanced than the american in terms of the phones we are used to and expect.
As for sales ill try and find the link but there were plenty of stories reported online about how overhyped the iphone was over here. Infact I think the only 2 stores where there were decent sized queues were the Apple stores in London and Manchester. Heres an article. Youll probabaly call it byast but im not sure if you live in the UK. If you do and were there on iphone launch night you will know its the truth.
In all I went to 2 CPW 2 O2 and passed another CPW on opening night. Most had only a few people dwaddling around. In the CPW i passed last on the way home the store was empty. lol
The fact is you dont expect to pay £268 for a handset if you are signing up for an 18month tarrif for which you get fuck all minutes anyway. On 3uk you can get 800 xnet vice minutes, 500 textx as well as unlimited internet. What does that tell you? That Apple are greedy and they could have had more sales if they had given the option to sell it on a 12 month contract. The very top end phones are usually free if not a small charge on an 18 month £35 a month tarrif. To turn around and ask for £268 is a slap in the face. In fact I dont know whats more a slap in the face, that or giving unlimited data rates with EDGE. 3uk and Tmob have 3.6mbps HSDPA coverage so the EDGE thing was right out of a comic joke if you ask me.
Ill hand it to the iphone, it has some great qualities but it also had some shocking shortcomings. I mean no video recording what the hell was that about? I know a few people at T3 magazine and they thought it was a geniune slip up by Apple to ommit such a feature considering how much they hyped up the whole "check it out iphone has a youtube app". What they forgot to say is "you can upload anything to youtube though". lol
I can sit here and all day about how iphone is the best gadget of 2007 but at the same time the biggest dissapointment. And dont give me that "i dont use that feature" nonsense. Its 2007 dude, do you think Nokia cares whether people use WIFI? No but it still puts it in all of its N range devices now. Users should be given the option to use it, not have it taken away becasue of Apples narrow way of thinking.
2008 will be an interesting year for Apple as they will launch 2 new phones one of which will be a true sucessor in terms of specs and with Nokia coming to the touch screen market in q4 Apple will have to make sure they get it 100% right as we all know Nokia wil throw all the trimmings in. decent camera, good video recording, a REAL 3.5mm jack that accepts all headphones not a dumb ass recessed one like on iphone, GPS, full flash support for browsing ect......
And by the way if you dont think Apple are launching any new phones in 2008 then you can kiss my hairy brown ass as I know for a fact they are launching 2.
And by the way if you dont think Apple are launching any new phones in 2008 then you can kiss my hairy brown ass as I know for a fact they are launching 2.
Only a moron would say that they aren't so you're not telling us anything we don't already know.
darngooddesign, please allow me to say it another way : Bluetooth is hot. Voice dialing, flat out – isn’t. Why waste resources getting the iPhone to support voice dialing directly when Apple (or a supported third party) could release a Bluetooth headset - with voice dialing? That way Apple can work on the iPhone itself and let third parties deal with the voice dialing.
bavlondon2, there are some features the iPhone seems to lack but many of them are currently on the iPhone, indirectly or otherwise. “No Flash?” Within a year we might not care, as Google and Apple/third parties start releasing more web-based interactive apps that don’t use Flash. Again, the iPhone is introducing a new platform, not just a cell phone, so within about a year they’ll have a portable personal/business computer that just about anyone can use. The price won’t have to drop because the demand keeps raising.
“Only 2mb” camera? That figure isn’t the most important in a digital camera anyways, it’s just one of many. Is it quick and easy to use, view, delete, email, and overall work seamlessly with the rest of the iPhone? It does. So in effect, what’s wrong with the camera itself, especially compared with what most camera cell phones accomplish?
“No SMS forwarding?” There are plenty of free online services which allow you to email them a picture and they then use SMS forwarding. Again, no charge. Since it takes incoming emails, which the iPhone can do, thus – indirectly, the iPhone can send SMS forwards. So, you were saying?
“No copy and paste of text” This one’s true. Copy and paste is not hard to do from a technical standpoint, it’s hard to introduce to the masses on a multi-touch interface. The cell phones that have copy/paste use a Microsoft (or related) OS. Has anyone else considered that? So how can people type in “Ctrl-C” and “Ctrl-V” when there isn’t a “Ctrl” button on the iPhone keyboard? How can they hit “Edit” then copy or paste when there isn’t an Edit menu bar? Should the iPhone have “Copy” and “Paste” buttons?
I’m sure Apple wants to wait until a few million people use the iPhone (hard core) to get feedback on the best way to use copy/paste. Maybe they’ll add two new buttons to the keyboard interface, just for that purpose. Maybe they'll have a triple tap to start where the copy begins and another triple tap to stop it. I don't know. But since they have holding your finger for a few seconds brings up the magnifying glass, its possible they're looking for the best way to copy/paste for the most people - rather than release their first impression of how it should work.
“no mp3 as ringtones”. Ok, bavlondon2, on this one you missed the memo, hehe. Apple already introduced that feature for the iPhone and it’s insanely great. It’s better than what’s out there because with iTunes you select up to 30 seconds of what part of the song is the ringtone. Can you do that with other ringtones you buy elsewhere? No, that’s right, the ringtone you bought for that other cell phone sounds exactly the same as the one anyone else buys for that ringtone. Apple? Ten people could have the same song but each of them could have a different section – the beginning, the chorus, the ending, some shorter, some longer, etc.. Unique? Definitely.
As a bonus, bavlondon2, along with anyone else that might have missed this great news, the entire song comes with it – total cost - $2. Already own the song? No problem, upgrading to a ringtone is just another 99 cents. The selection of music that can be made into a ringtone is growing.
“phone/contract expensive”. Ok, bavlondon2, on this one plenty of people missed the memo. Apple has never (and will never) try to market to those that want to play life with the “el cheapo” sign stamped on their foreheads. Apple prices their products based on their extremely high level of quality and service. In effect, people get what they pay for – and more, since Apple stands behind their products and constantly improves them.
Want to buy a BMW or a Mercedes? Should they drop the price to hopefully get more people to buy it? Why on earth would they do that?! The iPhone flat out is the BMW or Mercedes of the cell phone market. Those that buy it are willing to pay for it. Who gets in a BMW and says, “Hey, most cars, at half the price, have more cup holders.” Those that buy a BMW have other concerns than the size and number of the cup holders.
Lastly, let’s not forget, the status of simply owning an iPhone – its hot. Most people don’t care what kind of cell phone you have and very few actually enjoy using theirs. The iPhone, on the other hand, is just like those that have a iMac – they really enjoy using it!
Overall, what it all comes down to is a product that we, the consumers, choose to buy or not, use or not. Apple is working on making more updates to the iPhone and the point of this topic is expressing that for some the speed of the updates seems slow.
However, for any and all that seem, for whatever reason, not to like the iPhone or take delight on pointing out what the iPhone lacks – let’s do a simple reality check :
What other cell phones on the market do you spend your time talking about? Are you on the Chocolate or various Nokia/Motorola/Sprint/Verizon forums debating why and how and what features their phones should have? Why are you spending your time here, if you don’t even own an iPhone, might not even want one – why spend even 10 seconds here?
Yup, just what I thought – even there, the iPhone wins, hehe.
darngooddesign, please allow me to say it another way : Bluetooth is hot. Voice dialing, flat out – isn’t. Why waste resources getting the iPhone to support voice dialing directly when Apple (or a supported third party) could release a Bluetooth headset - with voice dialing? That way Apple can work on the iPhone itself and let third parties deal with the voice dialing.
Because this is a feature that should have come on the BMW of cellphones. Other much less expensive phones have it. Maybe it was something that ATT wouldn't budge on since they offer that service; kind of like Verizon crippling their phone's GPS features so you have to pay for their service. Regardless, as 3rd party devs have shown us, apps run smoother when they are part of the device and not on a remote server so phone-based VD is always going to run better than an external system provided its programmed correctly. So hopefully Apple is still perfecting the code.
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bavlondon2, there are some features the iPhone seems to lack but many of them are currently on the iPhone, indirectly or otherwise. “No Flash?” Within a year we might not care, as Google and Apple/third parties start releasing more web-based interactive apps that don’t use Flash. Again, the iPhone is introducing a new platform, not just a cell phone, so within about a year they’ll have a portable personal/business computer that just about anyone can use. The price won’t have to drop because the demand keeps raising.
That's a lot of speculation to make up for a missing feature. Flash isn't going anywhere and there is every likelyhood that it will become an even more important part of the net as far as inerface/site design and online apps. Considering we still can't do Java there is no guarantee that the new formats will be supported either. Most of this relies on Adobe, in the Flash example, to port the code, but Apple could have pushed them harder to release something that the vast majority of the internet uses.
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“Only 2mb” camera? That figure isn’t the most important in a digital camera anyways, it’s just one of many. Is it quick and easy to use, view, delete, email, and overall work seamlessly with the rest of the iPhone? It does. So in effect, what’s wrong with the camera itself, especially compared with what most camera cell phones accomplish?
Unless you are in good conditions the camera kind of sucks. It doesn't necessarily need more mp or optical zoom which would undoubtedly resulted in a thicker phone, but the current phone needs much better software support. No digital zoom, no low-light enhancement, no macro settings, no image stabilation which is necessary for a camera that lacks a flash... which brings me to my next point, no camera flash. This is the BMW of phones so it should have come with beter camera features. Flashes are comonplace in expensive phones and since this is a BMW, with a BMW price tag, we should have a Flash. The 3rd party has already proven that the camera can capture video at 30+ fps but we didn't get it. I'm annoyed that Apple left it out, but happy that the SDK will probably give it to us.
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“No SMS forwarding?” There are plenty of free online services which allow you to email them a picture and they then use SMS forwarding. Again, no charge. Since it takes incoming emails, which the iPhone can do, thus – indirectly, the iPhone can send SMS forwards. So, you were saying?
Thats a bad excuse for something that was an easy software feature to add. You might as well say rely on web-based email because there are plenty of online email clients. All you had to do was double tap on the specific conversation bubble you pull up a forward/reply menu. They could even implement the copy/paste feature I describe below.
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“No copy and paste of text” This one’s true. Copy and paste is not hard to do from a technical standpoint, it’s hard to introduce to the masses on a multi-touch interface. The cell phones that have copy/paste use a Microsoft (or related) OS. Has anyone else considered that? So how can people type in “Ctrl-C” and “Ctrl-V” when there isn’t a “Ctrl” button on the iPhone keyboard? How can they hit “Edit” then copy or paste when there isn’t an Edit menu bar? Should the iPhone have “Copy” and “Paste” buttons?
I’m sure Apple wants to wait until a few million people use the iPhone (hard core) to get feedback on the best way to use copy/paste. Maybe they’ll add two new buttons to the keyboard interface, just for that purpose. Maybe they'll have a triple tap to start where the copy begins and another triple tap to stop it. I don't know. But since they have holding your finger for a few seconds brings up the magnifying glass, its possible they're looking for the best way to copy/paste for the most people - rather than release their first impression of how it should work.
Apple could have take a shot at it and refined the system later. Something as simple as wait for the magnifying glass and tap with another finger to copy and move the magnifying glass and release your finger to stop copying. Then do the magnifying glass/tap thing again to paste. I'm not even a software genius and I figured out an easy way to implement the feature totally in software in a manner that displays the benefits of the multitouch screen quite well because you don't need a second button to accomplish the task.
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“no mp3 as ringtones”. Ok, bavlondon2, on this one you missed the memo, hehe. Apple already introduced that feature for the iPhone and it’s insanely great. It’s better than what’s out there because with iTunes you select up to 30 seconds of what part of the song is the ringtone. Can you do that with other ringtones you buy elsewhere? No, that’s right, the ringtone you bought for that other cell phone sounds exactly the same as the one anyone else buys for that ringtone. Apple? Ten people could have the same song but each of them could have a different section – the beginning, the chorus, the ending, some shorter, some longer, etc.. Unique? Definitely.
As a bonus, bavlondon2, along with anyone else that might have missed this great news, the entire song comes with it – total cost - $2. Already own the song? No problem, upgrading to a ringtone is just another 99 cents. The selection of music that can be made into a ringtone is growing.
So you're ok with paying twice for a song you already own? Its corporate greed, both Apple and the record company's. The record company for making us buy a song twice, and paying as much for 30 seconds as a full 4-6 minutes; it would have seemed like less of an insult if the ringtone only cost 25c because you are getting less that a quarter of the song. Apple is greedy because they should have given us free ringtones on songs we ripped from our own legally purchased CDs. What about songs that aren't sold on iTunes? This is akin to Apple forcing you to buy a digital copy of a CD you bought, just to play it on your iPod or iPhone, even if it only cost you 99c more and other companies charge you more. This is the kind of format-shifting that should be covered under fair-use.
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“phone/contract expensive”. Ok, bavlondon2, on this one plenty of people missed the memo. Apple has never (and will never) try to market to those that want to play life with the “el cheapo” sign stamped on their foreheads. Apple prices their products based on their extremely high level of quality and service. In effect, people get what they pay for – and more, since Apple stands behind their products and constantly improves them.
Want to buy a BMW or a Mercedes? Should they drop the price to hopefully get more people to buy it? Why on earth would they do that?! The iPhone flat out is the BMW or Mercedes of the cell phone market. Those that buy it are willing to pay for it. Who gets in a BMW and says, “Hey, most cars, at half the price, have more cup holders.” Those that buy a BMW have other concerns than the size and number of the cup holders.
This is exactly why we should have been given basic features like a rich SMS/MMS client, better camera, and copy/paste. We're paying this much for a phone, we should get features that have been common on much less expensive phones. Features I might add that don't rely on extra hardware that can be left out in the name of, "its obsolete so we didn't include it". That's a perfectly valid point BTW, but we're not talking about storage capacity or networking protocols that have been exceeded by newer technology. We're talking about completely software-based solutions. Please remember that even when Apple no longer included a physical floppy they still made sure the OS supported it.
“no mp3 as ringtones”. Ok, bavlondon2, on this one you missed the memo, hehe. Apple already introduced that feature for the iPhone and it’s insanely great. It’s better than what’s out there because with iTunes you select up to 30 seconds of what part of the song is the ringtone. Can you do that with other ringtones you buy elsewhere? No, that’s right, the ringtone you bought for that other cell phone sounds exactly the same as the one anyone else buys for that ringtone. Apple? Ten people could have the same song but each of them could have a different section – the beginning, the chorus, the ending, some shorter, some longer, etc.. Unique? Definitely.
As a bonus, bavlondon2, along with anyone else that might have missed this great news, the entire song comes with it – total cost - $2. Already own the song? No problem, upgrading to a ringtone is just another 99 cents. The selection of music that can be made into a ringtone is growing.
Why go through all that nonsense when all most phones do it simply now and for free. You sure like to get suckered dot you.
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Originally Posted by Kephisto
“phone/contract expensive”. Ok, bavlondon2, on this one plenty of people missed the memo. Apple has never (and will never) try to market to those that want to play life with the “el cheapo” sign stamped on their foreheads. Apple prices their products based on their extremely high level of quality and service. In effect, people get what they pay for – and more, since Apple stands behind their products and constantly improves them.
Mate I have an N95, LG Viewty (which by the way has sold more than the iphone already in the UK. A little indicator of what I was saying, specs are what people want over here) and a P1 as well as an ipod touch. No ones talking about el cheapo, theres nothing wrong with putting a hefty price tag on the phone as its a great device but for the same money per month you can get double the number of voice minutes and texts not to mention unlimited data on what is probably a 3G phone anyway as most are now. Its like they went backwards.
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Originally Posted by Kephisto
Want to buy a BMW or a Mercedes? Should they drop the price to hopefully get more people to buy it? Why on earth would they do that?! The iPhone flat out is the BMW or Mercedes of the cell phone market. Those that buy it are willing to pay for it. Who gets in a BMW and says, “Hey, most cars, at half the price, have more cup holders.” Those that buy a BMW have other concerns than the size and number of the cup holders.
Well pardon my business sense but im pretty sure that Apple want to penetrate the market enough to take a considerable share from the big 4: Nokia, SE, Samsung and Moto. And how do they do that? Produce phones that satisfy EVERYONE. There have been plenty of makes and phones over the years that were for the niche end of the market and most fell flat on their face. Sharp 903 was oneof the best cam phones in the UK, ccd aswel but now Sharp dont even make phones for Europe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kephisto
Lastly, let’s not forget, the status of simply owning an iPhone – its hot. Most people don’t care what kind of cell phone you have and very few actually enjoy using theirs. The iPhone, on the other hand, is just like those that have a iMac – they really enjoy using it!
Yeah im sure all those N95 v1/8gb owners are just sad having all those features like 5MP, VGA 30fps, GPS. Yeah I guess they are really really bored with all those features. lol Give me a break man thats the dumbest thing ive ever heard. But I guess its typical of Americans as you guys are way behind us in the mobile market anyway. The reason they are probably so bored with their phones in the US is because they dont have anything decent on the market. I mean its pathetic, so many people still go wild for Motorolas over there. They have declined so much. The iphone was a breath of fresh air to the US market but over here its like erm....actually we have a good saying for blondes over here so ill use it to describe the iphone.
Iphone is like a blonde. Its looks great on the outside but theres not much on the inside. And thats the gospel truth mate. believe what you want.
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Originally Posted by Kephisto
What other cell phones on the market do you spend your time talking about? Are you on the Chocolate or various Nokia/Motorola/Sprint/Verizon forums debating why and how and what features their phones should have? Why are you spending your time here, if you don’t even own an iPhone, might not even want one – why spend even 10 seconds here?
Yup, just what I thought – even there, the iPhone wins, hehe.
Actually I own many phones and even an ipod touch. I like the interface but most of all I hate how much potential it had but couldnt achieve through Apples own stupidity. Some of the things it does are very nice on the eye and the interface is second to none, well not quite but it sure looks cool. However with such an expensive device do you not surley expect to get at least the specs what are bog standard these days even if you dot use them? Of course. I said all along iphone wont be as big a hit as in the UK as in the US and I was right, you guy had queues coming out of your red white and blue asses and had stores out of stock. We had half empty or completley empty stores with outlets not running out of stock for over a week. LOL Dude get a reality check and get a grip the iphone may be able to turn heads in the states with its interface but over here like I said its features people want!
Hmm... I think the iPhone has a lot of evolution to do as I have complained about the slow pace of updates myself, but you have to be careful about one phone's superiority over another or how well one phone will do versus another. It's a big market, with many different cultures and different usage models.
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Originally Posted by bavlondon
2008 will be an interesting year for Apple as they will launch 2 new phones one of which will be a true sucessor in terms of specs and with Nokia coming to the touch screen market in q4 Apple will have to make sure they get it 100% right as we all know Nokia wil throw all the trimmings in. decent camera, good video recording, a REAL 3.5mm jack that accepts all headphones not a dumb ass recessed one like on iphone, GPS, full flash support for browsing ect......
Well, 2007 was an interesting year for Apple as well, no?
Apple is a US-centric company and will likely get at least 60 to 70% of iPhone revenues from the USA. Doing well in other countries is just gravy. When or if Nokia comes out with a touchscreen competitor to the iPhone, I highly doubt it will do anything to Apple's iPhone or prospective iPhone lineup. Why? Nokia has nearly zero presence in the USA. American carriers only carry 2 or 3 cheap Nokia phones. No high end phones. Consumers can go the unlocked route, but, I really don't foresee American consumers buying unlocked $700+ N-series phones in droves. The US isn't setup that way.
As for phone featuritis, I'm frankly tired of the iPhone doesn't have this, doesn't have that commentary. Maybe not tomorrow, but tired of it right now. You know, why doesn't the Nokia N95 have a QWERTY keyboard? It has physical buttons, why does it suck to use them? Why doesn't it have a 4" screen with 800 x 480 resolution? Why doesn't it have an SDHC card slot so I can have 8 GB of storage now? Why doesn't it have a 4 GB microSD card come in the box? In the case of the 8 GB version, why doesn't it have an SD slot? Why isn't the form factor 0.5 inches instead of 0.8 inches? Why do I have to pay for push email / GPS service, it's freaking $700? Why doesn't the web browser support Flash 8/9, instead of crappy Flash Lite 2.x? Flash Lite is worthless for the real web. Why are the voice recordings / memos limited to 1 freaking minute? Why doesn't it do automated email configuration? Why does HTML email suck on it, as in it doesn't support it? Do I need to go on?
Real life has trade offs to get products to market. Real life has companies considering their strategic interests. Apple chooses those they think benefits them. Others likewise.
A lot of these features are nice to haves, but no single one of them will make or break the device. The marketing on the iPhone is that it is a cell phone, an iPod, and an "Internet Communicator". It does those jobs to a reasonable degree. Apple's job will be to continually evolve what it does best and catchup to what it doesn't have. In terms of the winners and losers in the cell phone market, well, it depends on what the mass market really wants, and what niche Apple wants to be in. They are doing fine right now. With the continuing evolution of the device with the right features at the right price points in 2008, I don't think they'll have a problem.
Hmm... I think the iPhone has a lot of evolution to do as I have complained about the slow pace of updates myself, but you have to be careful about one phone's superiority over another or how well one phone will do versus another. It's a big market, with many different cultures and different usage models.
Well, 2007 was an interesting year for Apple as well, no?
Apple is a US-centric company and will likely get at least 60 to 70% of iPhone revenues from the USA. Doing well in other countries is just gravy. When or if Nokia comes out with a touchscreen competitor to the iPhone, I highly doubt it will do anything to Apple's iPhone or prospective iPhone lineup. Why? Nokia has nearly zero presence in the USA. American carriers only carry 2 or 3 cheap Nokia phones. No high end phones. Consumers can go the unlocked route, but, I really don't foresee American consumers buying unlocked $700+ N-series phones in droves. The US isn't setup that way.
As for phone featuritis, I'm frankly tired of the iPhone doesn't have this, doesn't have that commentary. Maybe not tomorrow, but tired of it right now. You know, why doesn't the Nokia N95 have a QWERTY keyboard? It has physical buttons, why does it suck to use them? Why doesn't it have a 4" screen with 800 x 480 resolution? Why doesn't it have an SDHC card slot so I can have 8 GB of storage now? Why doesn't it have a 4 GB microSD card come in the box? In the case of the 8 GB version, why doesn't it have an SD slot? Why isn't the form factor 0.5 inches instead of 0.8 inches? Why do I have to pay for push email / GPS service, it's freaking $700? Why doesn't the web browser support Flash 8/9, instead of crappy Flash Lite 2.x? Flash Lite is worthless for the real web. Why are the voice recordings / memos limited to 1 freaking minute? Why doesn't it do automated email configuration? Why does HTML email suck on it, as in it doesn't support it? Do I need to go on?
Real life has trade offs to get products to market. Real life has companies considering their strategic interests. Apple chooses those they think benefits them. Others likewise.
A lot of these features are nice to haves, but no single one of them will make or break the device. The marketing on the iPhone is that it is a cell phone, an iPod, and an "Internet Communicator". It does those jobs to a reasonable degree. Apple's job will be to continually evolve what it does best and catchup to what it doesn't have. In terms of the winners and losers in the cell phone market, well, it depends on what the mass market really wants, and what niche Apple wants to be in. They are doing fine right now. With the continuing evolution of the device with the right features at the right price points in 2008, I don't think they'll have a problem.
Yes 2007 wasa great year not just for Apple but for the whole market becasue now everyone wants to make phones like the iphone.
When Nokia launch their touch s60 device yes they will definaltey been hard pressed to make the interface half as snazzy as iphones with all those gestures. (infact I heard Nokia are having trouble and their first device may not make it onto the market till 2009)
If though iphone as you say will evolve and catch up on what they dont have then good for them, good for them as more people will buy their phones.
Your points though about the N95 8gb are a bit silly. The SD card slot thing could be also said for the 8GB iphone. Its not a business device so whats the need for a qwerty keyboard? And who in their right mind would make a slider with a 4 inch screen? As for flash, well iphone does support proper flash yet eithr. I get your points about the email ect....but if you know all that then surley you have to agree that it was a silly move to leave out basic things like video recording, especially at a time when makes are releasing phones marketed around the concept of video recording. And with such a big screen it would be an awesome feature. I guess we can only hope that iphone gets more specs in its next installments but if you really want to talk about features if you put a list of what the phone can do for the n95 8gb and iphone side by side which one do you think would come out on top? n95 8gb of course
I'd like to join your vigorous defence of the fine N95.
Cramming all those features into that tiny house-brick sized device is very impressive. Well done Nokia.
It's obviously not fair to compare the web-browser in the N95 to the iPhone. It would be like comparing ...say... one of those little blue invalid carriages to a proper car. Not that I have anything against specialist disabled modes of transport. They are very efficient and cost-effective. Well done to Reliant, or whoever it is that makes them. And well done to Nokia too. A really brave little effort.
The screen on the 95 is just great too. It stops those with limited vision having to focus on something too large.
Oh and that Keyboard! Sheer design genius! Makes entering text a breeze. Having only 12 keys makes it so much simpler than having, say 26 keys.
Bav is right. The N95 is a winning device. If it were an athlete, it would win the special olympics every time.
I'd like to join your vigorous defence of the fine N95.
Cramming all those features into that tiny house-brick sized device is very impressive. Well done Nokia.
It's obviously not fair to compare the web-browser in the N95 to the iPhone. It would be like comparing ...say... one of those little blue invalid carriages to a proper car. Not that I have anything against specialist disabled modes of transport. They are very efficient and cost-effective. Well done to Reliant, or whoever it is that makes them. And well done to Nokia too. A really brave little effort.
The screen on the 95 is just great too. It stops those with limited vision having to focus on something too large.
Oh and that Keyboard! Sheer design genius! Makes entering text a breeze. Having only 12 keys makes it so much simpler than having, say 26 keys.
Bav is right. The N95 is a winning device. If it were an athlete, it would win the special olympics every time.
Comments
Yeah, I had a RAZR too and I would definitely say that it didn't work so hot. They're omitting this option for a reason. They didn't just "forget" it, or over look it. The technology isn't there. And I would say that "pretty well" isn't good enough for Apple.
would this be a software update or require a hardware upgrade. trying to guess how soon this could be added
#1 - Since introducing the iPhone in June over a million units were sold and at least three updates have come out. That averages an official update every two months. Of all the software that you're using now, from your operating system to your browser, etc.., which one of them have made three updates this year, let alone the past few months?
#2 - Keeping in mind #1, it is very hard to beta-test or search for bugs in software before officially releasing it to the general public. No software is every perfect and with what a programmer makes work for one set-up may cause havoc with another. Each new feature of the iPhone has to work with what it already has as well as what they have in mind for the future.
#3 - Apple knew they were opening the iPhone to 3rd parties developers, which means they very well aren't going to devote too much resources to introduce features that other people and companies can do just as well, if not better. Let some people focus on what the iPhone can't do in the present, some are working on what it can do in the near future. By the end of 2008, many high demand features will be available in the iPhone. In other words, some features will come out after third parties release what they've come up with.
#4 - Of at least three updates and over a million iPhone in use, none of those updates caused widespread grief or damage. Some may have been affected by the locked phone software problem but it wasn't as if half, or even a fifth, of all users suddenly had problems with their phone.
And lastly . . .
#5 - Of at least three updates it seems none of them disabled previously demanded features. Almost anywhere else in the software industry, many updates tend to cause previously working features to become unreliable or just fail outright. So when a new update for the iPhone comes out they all have a quick and easy, seamless, integration to the iPhone without undue grief or concern.
I agree with everyone that there are features that are missing and I look forward to many of those features/suggestions. It's merely my opinion that once you look at it from a software/developer point of view, Apple is staking a lot on their very first entry into the cellular market. With so much on the line, I'm impressed that they've moved so far, so fast, with most of us expecting that when the next update comes out - it will just work better than it did before.
Again, just my opinion.
I guess I shouldn't complain. Tiger averaged 2 months between updates. Given the iPhone has been out for 6 months now, 3 updates would be on par with Apple's pace.
I'm just wanting them to add voice dialing so CT State Police doesn't stop me trying to dial a family member!
The multi-touch interface isn't perfect, but it's included. Bluetooth connectivity isn't perfect, but it's included. The Safari web browser isn't perfect, but it's included.
Just because something isn't perfect doesn't mean it shouldn't be included. Voice dialing works well enough that it should be included.
As I mentioned previously, I had no problem with my RAZR's voice dialing. Those that have problems either have varying voice pitches, varying enunciation, or do not record their sample voices for each name in a quiet environment.
Yeah, you brought up the "perfect point" when you mention OS X. Personally, I think OS X, multi-touch, Bluetooth and Safari have been brought much closer to perfection than voice recognition. I must not be alone either seeing as how they're all included on the iPhone and voice dialing isn't. If its just a simple software upgrade away, then why hasn't Apple included it as well? A company that obsesses over the design of their products. What happened then? Slipped their minds during the years and years of development?
Kephisto, only one update so far has added new features. The other two updates were bug fixes.
I guess I shouldn't complain. Tiger averaged 2 months between updates. Given the iPhone has been out for 6 months now, 3 updates would be on par with Apple's pace.
About only one update adding new features and the others being bug fixes, that's a good point, Southerndoc. Thanks for pointing that out - I missed it. What would be slow is if another five or six months pass and another update (with new features) wasn't released.
I'm just wanting them to add voice dialing so CT State Police doesn't stop me trying to dial a family member!
Maybe they'll add voice dialing. If they do, I won't complain.
Perhaps the core reason voice dialing isn't on the iPhone is that in concept it goes against what makes the iPhone so unique : Apple's OS X using their new multi - touch technology. In other words, why should they jump to supporting anything that bypasses their new multi-touch interface? They might add it after they reached the target sales they were aiming for.
Voice dialing has it's pros and cons and many cell phones can do it, but with all the patents and upcoming devices Apple is working on, all using a variation of multi-touch, to me it makes sense this multi - touch is an upcoming platform for Apple, not just a cell phone. That likely means they'll wait before introducing anything that allows users to bypass the interface, such as voice dialing.
So it's not so much a technical or software problem to be solved, it's rather a preference of the design team (and from on high, ahem) not to support it - for now.
I could be wrong. It's just a thought.
...There's nothing more frustrating than something that doesn't work 100%. I can see apple adding this feature once it becomes foolproof. But right now, I just don't think its there.
You mean like a lack of Flash, no copy/paste, and a half-assed TXT program?
Perhaps the core reason voice dialing isn't on the iPhone is that in concept it goes against what makes the iPhone so unique : Apple's OS X using their new multi - touch technology. In other words, why should they jump to supporting anything that bypasses their new multi-touch interface? They might add it after they reached the target sales they were aiming for.
Voice dialing has it's pros and cons and many cell phones can do it, but with all the patents and upcoming devices Apple is working on, all using a variation of multi-touch, to me it makes sense this multi - touch is an upcoming platform for Apple, not just a cell phone. That likely means they'll wait before introducing anything that allows users to bypass the interface, such as voice dialing...
While you shouldn't most people use their phones in the car. Voice dialing would make the whole experience safer just like a hands-free setup does. Also, by your logic Apple should have left off bluetooth headset support and that cool little button on the headphones because they bypass the Multitouch interface.
PS. The inputs needed to dial a number are just touch, not multitouch.
You mean like a lack of Flash, no copy/paste, and a half-assed TXT program?
The thing with the iphone in its current state is that although it excells in areas to such an extent it makes Nokia and the rest look silly, at the same time it lacks in so many ways on a basic level that its also inferior to even the lowest of the low end phones.
No flash, only a 2mp cam (thats not to bad as the cam is actually quite decent in good conditions), no sms forwarding, no copy and paste of text, no mp3s as ringones, phone is too expensive on a pricey contract too. This phone had so much potential yet through Apples own greed it has lost out on many sales. If only had subsidised the phone like all other phones are, if only they had made it available on a 12 month contract again like all other phones are.
The only posative thing is that its sucessor(s) will be announced soon. Whether Apple will learn from their mistakes though remains to be seen.
The phone has lots of potential, and delivers on much of it. To say that the only positive thing about the phone is that another model is expected soon is just plain silly. I'll wager that Apple will hit its goal of 10 million phones in '08, which would be very impressive considering all the sales you claim they've lost. You might consider expanding your perspective a bit.
Overall, though, this message board is comedy. You have a very small group of message board nerds here complaining about all the deficiencies, but the average user is not concerned about iChat over wi-fi or whether the phone can be used as a hard disk. If you remember nothing else, remember this: buying something now that doesn't meet your needs on the hope that at some point down the road it will be what you want and need is NOT ordinary consumer behavior. Now, if your other phone died, and you didn't want to waist money on another phone while you waited for the iPhone to meet your expectations, then that's a slightly different scenario, but truthfully your decision not to purchase is much more powerful than buying and waiting. If anything, all the people that have bought the phone despite the fact that its feature set aren't what they like have actually slowed the pace of revision.
Too expensive? Sales lost because of "missing" features? Do you have any real data on this? Do you have evidence of lost sales beyond the basic maxim that decreasing price almost always increases sales? I'll save you the trouble: you don't!
The phone has lots of potential, and delivers on much of it. To say that the only positive thing about the phone is that another model is expected soon is just plain silly. I'll wager that Apple will hit its goal of 10 million phones in '08, which would be very impressive considering all the sales you claim they've lost. You might consider expanding your perspective a bit.
Overall, though, this message board is comedy. You have a very small group of message board nerds here complaining about all the deficiencies, but the average user is not concerned about iChat over wi-fi or whether the phone can be used as a hard disk. If you remember nothing else, remember this: buying something now that doesn't meet your needs on the hope that at some point down the road it will be what you want and need is NOT ordinary consumer behavior. Now, if your other phone died, and you didn't want to waist money on another phone while you waited for the iPhone to meet your expectations, then that's a slightly different scenario, but truthfully your decision not to purchase is much more powerful than buying and waiting. If anything, all the people that have bought the phone despite the fact that its feature set aren't what they like have actually slowed the pace of revision.
In the US you guys are qu9ite behind in the mobile market. Moto is the best thing you have to shout about where as we shout about 5mp cameras, VGA video recording and HSDPA. The iphone was always going to do well there as in terms of its shortcomings, it didnt really matter as you lot dont get much at all anyway. Heck it took you over a year after N95 launched over here to just to get a NAM.
And as for "nerds" well its not our fault our needs are basic. The European market is much more advanced than the american in terms of the phones we are used to and expect.
As for sales ill try and find the link but there were plenty of stories reported online about how overhyped the iphone was over here. Infact I think the only 2 stores where there were decent sized queues were the Apple stores in London and Manchester. Heres an article. Youll probabaly call it byast but im not sure if you live in the UK. If you do and were there on iphone launch night you will know its the truth.
In all I went to 2 CPW 2 O2 and passed another CPW on opening night. Most had only a few people dwaddling around. In the CPW i passed last on the way home the store was empty. lol
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/11/11/iphone_uk_flop/
The fact is you dont expect to pay £268 for a handset if you are signing up for an 18month tarrif for which you get fuck all minutes anyway. On 3uk you can get 800 xnet vice minutes, 500 textx as well as unlimited internet. What does that tell you? That Apple are greedy and they could have had more sales if they had given the option to sell it on a 12 month contract. The very top end phones are usually free if not a small charge on an 18 month £35 a month tarrif. To turn around and ask for £268 is a slap in the face. In fact I dont know whats more a slap in the face, that or giving unlimited data rates with EDGE. 3uk and Tmob have 3.6mbps HSDPA coverage so the EDGE thing was right out of a comic joke if you ask me.
Ill hand it to the iphone, it has some great qualities but it also had some shocking shortcomings. I mean no video recording what the hell was that about? I know a few people at T3 magazine and they thought it was a geniune slip up by Apple to ommit such a feature considering how much they hyped up the whole "check it out iphone has a youtube app". What they forgot to say is "you can upload anything to youtube though". lol
I can sit here and all day about how iphone is the best gadget of 2007 but at the same time the biggest dissapointment. And dont give me that "i dont use that feature" nonsense. Its 2007 dude, do you think Nokia cares whether people use WIFI? No but it still puts it in all of its N range devices now. Users should be given the option to use it, not have it taken away becasue of Apples narrow way of thinking.
2008 will be an interesting year for Apple as they will launch 2 new phones one of which will be a true sucessor in terms of specs and with Nokia coming to the touch screen market in q4 Apple will have to make sure they get it 100% right as we all know Nokia wil throw all the trimmings in. decent camera, good video recording, a REAL 3.5mm jack that accepts all headphones not a dumb ass recessed one like on iphone, GPS, full flash support for browsing ect......
And by the way if you dont think Apple are launching any new phones in 2008 then you can kiss my hairy brown ass as I know for a fact they are launching 2.
And by the way if you dont think Apple are launching any new phones in 2008 then you can kiss my hairy brown ass as I know for a fact they are launching 2.
Only a moron would say that they aren't so you're not telling us anything we don't already know.
C.
bavlondon2, there are some features the iPhone seems to lack but many of them are currently on the iPhone, indirectly or otherwise. “No Flash?” Within a year we might not care, as Google and Apple/third parties start releasing more web-based interactive apps that don’t use Flash. Again, the iPhone is introducing a new platform, not just a cell phone, so within about a year they’ll have a portable personal/business computer that just about anyone can use. The price won’t have to drop because the demand keeps raising.
“Only 2mb” camera? That figure isn’t the most important in a digital camera anyways, it’s just one of many. Is it quick and easy to use, view, delete, email, and overall work seamlessly with the rest of the iPhone? It does. So in effect, what’s wrong with the camera itself, especially compared with what most camera cell phones accomplish?
“No SMS forwarding?” There are plenty of free online services which allow you to email them a picture and they then use SMS forwarding. Again, no charge. Since it takes incoming emails, which the iPhone can do, thus – indirectly, the iPhone can send SMS forwards. So, you were saying?
“No copy and paste of text” This one’s true. Copy and paste is not hard to do from a technical standpoint, it’s hard to introduce to the masses on a multi-touch interface. The cell phones that have copy/paste use a Microsoft (or related) OS. Has anyone else considered that? So how can people type in “Ctrl-C” and “Ctrl-V” when there isn’t a “Ctrl” button on the iPhone keyboard? How can they hit “Edit” then copy or paste when there isn’t an Edit menu bar? Should the iPhone have “Copy” and “Paste” buttons?
I’m sure Apple wants to wait until a few million people use the iPhone (hard core) to get feedback on the best way to use copy/paste. Maybe they’ll add two new buttons to the keyboard interface, just for that purpose. Maybe they'll have a triple tap to start where the copy begins and another triple tap to stop it. I don't know. But since they have holding your finger for a few seconds brings up the magnifying glass, its possible they're looking for the best way to copy/paste for the most people - rather than release their first impression of how it should work.
“no mp3 as ringtones”. Ok, bavlondon2, on this one you missed the memo, hehe. Apple already introduced that feature for the iPhone and it’s insanely great. It’s better than what’s out there because with iTunes you select up to 30 seconds of what part of the song is the ringtone. Can you do that with other ringtones you buy elsewhere? No, that’s right, the ringtone you bought for that other cell phone sounds exactly the same as the one anyone else buys for that ringtone. Apple? Ten people could have the same song but each of them could have a different section – the beginning, the chorus, the ending, some shorter, some longer, etc.. Unique? Definitely.
As a bonus, bavlondon2, along with anyone else that might have missed this great news, the entire song comes with it – total cost - $2. Already own the song? No problem, upgrading to a ringtone is just another 99 cents. The selection of music that can be made into a ringtone is growing.
“phone/contract expensive”. Ok, bavlondon2, on this one plenty of people missed the memo. Apple has never (and will never) try to market to those that want to play life with the “el cheapo” sign stamped on their foreheads. Apple prices their products based on their extremely high level of quality and service. In effect, people get what they pay for – and more, since Apple stands behind their products and constantly improves them.
Want to buy a BMW or a Mercedes? Should they drop the price to hopefully get more people to buy it? Why on earth would they do that?! The iPhone flat out is the BMW or Mercedes of the cell phone market. Those that buy it are willing to pay for it. Who gets in a BMW and says, “Hey, most cars, at half the price, have more cup holders.” Those that buy a BMW have other concerns than the size and number of the cup holders.
Lastly, let’s not forget, the status of simply owning an iPhone – its hot. Most people don’t care what kind of cell phone you have and very few actually enjoy using theirs. The iPhone, on the other hand, is just like those that have a iMac – they really enjoy using it!
Overall, what it all comes down to is a product that we, the consumers, choose to buy or not, use or not. Apple is working on making more updates to the iPhone and the point of this topic is expressing that for some the speed of the updates seems slow.
However, for any and all that seem, for whatever reason, not to like the iPhone or take delight on pointing out what the iPhone lacks – let’s do a simple reality check :
What other cell phones on the market do you spend your time talking about? Are you on the Chocolate or various Nokia/Motorola/Sprint/Verizon forums debating why and how and what features their phones should have? Why are you spending your time here, if you don’t even own an iPhone, might not even want one – why spend even 10 seconds here?
Yup, just what I thought – even there, the iPhone wins, hehe.
The 1.1.3 update looks good.
C.
I certainly agree, Carniphage.
darngooddesign, please allow me to say it another way : Bluetooth is hot. Voice dialing, flat out – isn’t. Why waste resources getting the iPhone to support voice dialing directly when Apple (or a supported third party) could release a Bluetooth headset - with voice dialing? That way Apple can work on the iPhone itself and let third parties deal with the voice dialing.
Because this is a feature that should have come on the BMW of cellphones. Other much less expensive phones have it. Maybe it was something that ATT wouldn't budge on since they offer that service; kind of like Verizon crippling their phone's GPS features so you have to pay for their service. Regardless, as 3rd party devs have shown us, apps run smoother when they are part of the device and not on a remote server so phone-based VD is always going to run better than an external system provided its programmed correctly. So hopefully Apple is still perfecting the code.
bavlondon2, there are some features the iPhone seems to lack but many of them are currently on the iPhone, indirectly or otherwise. “No Flash?” Within a year we might not care, as Google and Apple/third parties start releasing more web-based interactive apps that don’t use Flash. Again, the iPhone is introducing a new platform, not just a cell phone, so within about a year they’ll have a portable personal/business computer that just about anyone can use. The price won’t have to drop because the demand keeps raising.
That's a lot of speculation to make up for a missing feature. Flash isn't going anywhere and there is every likelyhood that it will become an even more important part of the net as far as inerface/site design and online apps. Considering we still can't do Java there is no guarantee that the new formats will be supported either. Most of this relies on Adobe, in the Flash example, to port the code, but Apple could have pushed them harder to release something that the vast majority of the internet uses.
“Only 2mb” camera? That figure isn’t the most important in a digital camera anyways, it’s just one of many. Is it quick and easy to use, view, delete, email, and overall work seamlessly with the rest of the iPhone? It does. So in effect, what’s wrong with the camera itself, especially compared with what most camera cell phones accomplish?
Unless you are in good conditions the camera kind of sucks. It doesn't necessarily need more mp or optical zoom which would undoubtedly resulted in a thicker phone, but the current phone needs much better software support. No digital zoom, no low-light enhancement, no macro settings, no image stabilation which is necessary for a camera that lacks a flash... which brings me to my next point, no camera flash. This is the BMW of phones so it should have come with beter camera features. Flashes are comonplace in expensive phones and since this is a BMW, with a BMW price tag, we should have a Flash. The 3rd party has already proven that the camera can capture video at 30+ fps but we didn't get it. I'm annoyed that Apple left it out, but happy that the SDK will probably give it to us.
“No SMS forwarding?” There are plenty of free online services which allow you to email them a picture and they then use SMS forwarding. Again, no charge. Since it takes incoming emails, which the iPhone can do, thus – indirectly, the iPhone can send SMS forwards. So, you were saying?
Thats a bad excuse for something that was an easy software feature to add. You might as well say rely on web-based email because there are plenty of online email clients. All you had to do was double tap on the specific conversation bubble you pull up a forward/reply menu. They could even implement the copy/paste feature I describe below.
“No copy and paste of text” This one’s true. Copy and paste is not hard to do from a technical standpoint, it’s hard to introduce to the masses on a multi-touch interface. The cell phones that have copy/paste use a Microsoft (or related) OS. Has anyone else considered that? So how can people type in “Ctrl-C” and “Ctrl-V” when there isn’t a “Ctrl” button on the iPhone keyboard? How can they hit “Edit” then copy or paste when there isn’t an Edit menu bar? Should the iPhone have “Copy” and “Paste” buttons?
I’m sure Apple wants to wait until a few million people use the iPhone (hard core) to get feedback on the best way to use copy/paste. Maybe they’ll add two new buttons to the keyboard interface, just for that purpose. Maybe they'll have a triple tap to start where the copy begins and another triple tap to stop it. I don't know. But since they have holding your finger for a few seconds brings up the magnifying glass, its possible they're looking for the best way to copy/paste for the most people - rather than release their first impression of how it should work.
Apple could have take a shot at it and refined the system later. Something as simple as wait for the magnifying glass and tap with another finger to copy and move the magnifying glass and release your finger to stop copying. Then do the magnifying glass/tap thing again to paste. I'm not even a software genius and I figured out an easy way to implement the feature totally in software in a manner that displays the benefits of the multitouch screen quite well because you don't need a second button to accomplish the task.
“no mp3 as ringtones”. Ok, bavlondon2, on this one you missed the memo, hehe. Apple already introduced that feature for the iPhone and it’s insanely great. It’s better than what’s out there because with iTunes you select up to 30 seconds of what part of the song is the ringtone. Can you do that with other ringtones you buy elsewhere? No, that’s right, the ringtone you bought for that other cell phone sounds exactly the same as the one anyone else buys for that ringtone. Apple? Ten people could have the same song but each of them could have a different section – the beginning, the chorus, the ending, some shorter, some longer, etc.. Unique? Definitely.
As a bonus, bavlondon2, along with anyone else that might have missed this great news, the entire song comes with it – total cost - $2. Already own the song? No problem, upgrading to a ringtone is just another 99 cents. The selection of music that can be made into a ringtone is growing.
So you're ok with paying twice for a song you already own? Its corporate greed, both Apple and the record company's. The record company for making us buy a song twice, and paying as much for 30 seconds as a full 4-6 minutes; it would have seemed like less of an insult if the ringtone only cost 25c because you are getting less that a quarter of the song. Apple is greedy because they should have given us free ringtones on songs we ripped from our own legally purchased CDs. What about songs that aren't sold on iTunes? This is akin to Apple forcing you to buy a digital copy of a CD you bought, just to play it on your iPod or iPhone, even if it only cost you 99c more and other companies charge you more. This is the kind of format-shifting that should be covered under fair-use.
“phone/contract expensive”. Ok, bavlondon2, on this one plenty of people missed the memo. Apple has never (and will never) try to market to those that want to play life with the “el cheapo” sign stamped on their foreheads. Apple prices their products based on their extremely high level of quality and service. In effect, people get what they pay for – and more, since Apple stands behind their products and constantly improves them.
Want to buy a BMW or a Mercedes? Should they drop the price to hopefully get more people to buy it? Why on earth would they do that?! The iPhone flat out is the BMW or Mercedes of the cell phone market. Those that buy it are willing to pay for it. Who gets in a BMW and says, “Hey, most cars, at half the price, have more cup holders.” Those that buy a BMW have other concerns than the size and number of the cup holders.
This is exactly why we should have been given basic features like a rich SMS/MMS client, better camera, and copy/paste. We're paying this much for a phone, we should get features that have been common on much less expensive phones. Features I might add that don't rely on extra hardware that can be left out in the name of, "its obsolete so we didn't include it". That's a perfectly valid point BTW, but we're not talking about storage capacity or networking protocols that have been exceeded by newer technology. We're talking about completely software-based solutions. Please remember that even when Apple no longer included a physical floppy they still made sure the OS supported it.
“no mp3 as ringtones”. Ok, bavlondon2, on this one you missed the memo, hehe. Apple already introduced that feature for the iPhone and it’s insanely great. It’s better than what’s out there because with iTunes you select up to 30 seconds of what part of the song is the ringtone. Can you do that with other ringtones you buy elsewhere? No, that’s right, the ringtone you bought for that other cell phone sounds exactly the same as the one anyone else buys for that ringtone. Apple? Ten people could have the same song but each of them could have a different section – the beginning, the chorus, the ending, some shorter, some longer, etc.. Unique? Definitely.
As a bonus, bavlondon2, along with anyone else that might have missed this great news, the entire song comes with it – total cost - $2. Already own the song? No problem, upgrading to a ringtone is just another 99 cents. The selection of music that can be made into a ringtone is growing.
Why go through all that nonsense when all most phones do it simply now and for free. You sure like to get suckered dot you.
“phone/contract expensive”. Ok, bavlondon2, on this one plenty of people missed the memo. Apple has never (and will never) try to market to those that want to play life with the “el cheapo” sign stamped on their foreheads. Apple prices their products based on their extremely high level of quality and service. In effect, people get what they pay for – and more, since Apple stands behind their products and constantly improves them.
Mate I have an N95, LG Viewty (which by the way has sold more than the iphone already in the UK. A little indicator of what I was saying, specs are what people want over here) and a P1 as well as an ipod touch. No ones talking about el cheapo, theres nothing wrong with putting a hefty price tag on the phone as its a great device but for the same money per month you can get double the number of voice minutes and texts not to mention unlimited data on what is probably a 3G phone anyway as most are now. Its like they went backwards.
Want to buy a BMW or a Mercedes? Should they drop the price to hopefully get more people to buy it? Why on earth would they do that?! The iPhone flat out is the BMW or Mercedes of the cell phone market. Those that buy it are willing to pay for it. Who gets in a BMW and says, “Hey, most cars, at half the price, have more cup holders.” Those that buy a BMW have other concerns than the size and number of the cup holders.
Well pardon my business sense but im pretty sure that Apple want to penetrate the market enough to take a considerable share from the big 4: Nokia, SE, Samsung and Moto. And how do they do that? Produce phones that satisfy EVERYONE. There have been plenty of makes and phones over the years that were for the niche end of the market and most fell flat on their face. Sharp 903 was oneof the best cam phones in the UK, ccd aswel but now Sharp dont even make phones for Europe.
Lastly, let’s not forget, the status of simply owning an iPhone – its hot. Most people don’t care what kind of cell phone you have and very few actually enjoy using theirs. The iPhone, on the other hand, is just like those that have a iMac – they really enjoy using it!
Yeah im sure all those N95 v1/8gb owners are just sad having all those features like 5MP, VGA 30fps, GPS. Yeah I guess they are really really bored with all those features. lol Give me a break man thats the dumbest thing ive ever heard. But I guess its typical of Americans as you guys are way behind us in the mobile market anyway. The reason they are probably so bored with their phones in the US is because they dont have anything decent on the market. I mean its pathetic, so many people still go wild for Motorolas over there. They have declined so much. The iphone was a breath of fresh air to the US market but over here its like erm....actually we have a good saying for blondes over here so ill use it to describe the iphone.
Iphone is like a blonde. Its looks great on the outside but theres not much on the inside. And thats the gospel truth mate. believe what you want.
What other cell phones on the market do you spend your time talking about? Are you on the Chocolate or various Nokia/Motorola/Sprint/Verizon forums debating why and how and what features their phones should have? Why are you spending your time here, if you don’t even own an iPhone, might not even want one – why spend even 10 seconds here?
Yup, just what I thought – even there, the iPhone wins, hehe.
Actually I own many phones and even an ipod touch. I like the interface but most of all I hate how much potential it had but couldnt achieve through Apples own stupidity. Some of the things it does are very nice on the eye and the interface is second to none, well not quite but it sure looks cool. However with such an expensive device do you not surley expect to get at least the specs what are bog standard these days even if you dot use them? Of course. I said all along iphone wont be as big a hit as in the UK as in the US and I was right, you guy had queues coming out of your red white and blue asses and had stores out of stock. We had half empty or completley empty stores with outlets not running out of stock for over a week. LOL Dude get a reality check and get a grip the iphone may be able to turn heads in the states with its interface but over here like I said its features people want!
2008 will be an interesting year for Apple as they will launch 2 new phones one of which will be a true sucessor in terms of specs and with Nokia coming to the touch screen market in q4 Apple will have to make sure they get it 100% right as we all know Nokia wil throw all the trimmings in. decent camera, good video recording, a REAL 3.5mm jack that accepts all headphones not a dumb ass recessed one like on iphone, GPS, full flash support for browsing ect......
Well, 2007 was an interesting year for Apple as well, no?
Apple is a US-centric company and will likely get at least 60 to 70% of iPhone revenues from the USA. Doing well in other countries is just gravy. When or if Nokia comes out with a touchscreen competitor to the iPhone, I highly doubt it will do anything to Apple's iPhone or prospective iPhone lineup. Why? Nokia has nearly zero presence in the USA. American carriers only carry 2 or 3 cheap Nokia phones. No high end phones. Consumers can go the unlocked route, but, I really don't foresee American consumers buying unlocked $700+ N-series phones in droves. The US isn't setup that way.
As for phone featuritis, I'm frankly tired of the iPhone doesn't have this, doesn't have that commentary. Maybe not tomorrow, but tired of it right now. You know, why doesn't the Nokia N95 have a QWERTY keyboard? It has physical buttons, why does it suck to use them? Why doesn't it have a 4" screen with 800 x 480 resolution? Why doesn't it have an SDHC card slot so I can have 8 GB of storage now? Why doesn't it have a 4 GB microSD card come in the box? In the case of the 8 GB version, why doesn't it have an SD slot? Why isn't the form factor 0.5 inches instead of 0.8 inches? Why do I have to pay for push email / GPS service, it's freaking $700? Why doesn't the web browser support Flash 8/9, instead of crappy Flash Lite 2.x? Flash Lite is worthless for the real web. Why are the voice recordings / memos limited to 1 freaking minute? Why doesn't it do automated email configuration? Why does HTML email suck on it, as in it doesn't support it? Do I need to go on?
Real life has trade offs to get products to market. Real life has companies considering their strategic interests. Apple chooses those they think benefits them. Others likewise.
A lot of these features are nice to haves, but no single one of them will make or break the device. The marketing on the iPhone is that it is a cell phone, an iPod, and an "Internet Communicator". It does those jobs to a reasonable degree. Apple's job will be to continually evolve what it does best and catchup to what it doesn't have. In terms of the winners and losers in the cell phone market, well, it depends on what the mass market really wants, and what niche Apple wants to be in. They are doing fine right now. With the continuing evolution of the device with the right features at the right price points in 2008, I don't think they'll have a problem.
Hmm... I think the iPhone has a lot of evolution to do as I have complained about the slow pace of updates myself, but you have to be careful about one phone's superiority over another or how well one phone will do versus another. It's a big market, with many different cultures and different usage models.
Well, 2007 was an interesting year for Apple as well, no?
Apple is a US-centric company and will likely get at least 60 to 70% of iPhone revenues from the USA. Doing well in other countries is just gravy. When or if Nokia comes out with a touchscreen competitor to the iPhone, I highly doubt it will do anything to Apple's iPhone or prospective iPhone lineup. Why? Nokia has nearly zero presence in the USA. American carriers only carry 2 or 3 cheap Nokia phones. No high end phones. Consumers can go the unlocked route, but, I really don't foresee American consumers buying unlocked $700+ N-series phones in droves. The US isn't setup that way.
As for phone featuritis, I'm frankly tired of the iPhone doesn't have this, doesn't have that commentary. Maybe not tomorrow, but tired of it right now. You know, why doesn't the Nokia N95 have a QWERTY keyboard? It has physical buttons, why does it suck to use them? Why doesn't it have a 4" screen with 800 x 480 resolution? Why doesn't it have an SDHC card slot so I can have 8 GB of storage now? Why doesn't it have a 4 GB microSD card come in the box? In the case of the 8 GB version, why doesn't it have an SD slot? Why isn't the form factor 0.5 inches instead of 0.8 inches? Why do I have to pay for push email / GPS service, it's freaking $700? Why doesn't the web browser support Flash 8/9, instead of crappy Flash Lite 2.x? Flash Lite is worthless for the real web. Why are the voice recordings / memos limited to 1 freaking minute? Why doesn't it do automated email configuration? Why does HTML email suck on it, as in it doesn't support it? Do I need to go on?
Real life has trade offs to get products to market. Real life has companies considering their strategic interests. Apple chooses those they think benefits them. Others likewise.
A lot of these features are nice to haves, but no single one of them will make or break the device. The marketing on the iPhone is that it is a cell phone, an iPod, and an "Internet Communicator". It does those jobs to a reasonable degree. Apple's job will be to continually evolve what it does best and catchup to what it doesn't have. In terms of the winners and losers in the cell phone market, well, it depends on what the mass market really wants, and what niche Apple wants to be in. They are doing fine right now. With the continuing evolution of the device with the right features at the right price points in 2008, I don't think they'll have a problem.
Yes 2007 wasa great year not just for Apple but for the whole market becasue now everyone wants to make phones like the iphone.
When Nokia launch their touch s60 device yes they will definaltey been hard pressed to make the interface half as snazzy as iphones with all those gestures. (infact I heard Nokia are having trouble and their first device may not make it onto the market till 2009)
If though iphone as you say will evolve and catch up on what they dont have then good for them, good for them as more people will buy their phones.
Your points though about the N95 8gb are a bit silly. The SD card slot thing could be also said for the 8GB iphone. Its not a business device so whats the need for a qwerty keyboard? And who in their right mind would make a slider with a 4 inch screen? As for flash, well iphone does support proper flash yet eithr. I get your points about the email ect....but if you know all that then surley you have to agree that it was a silly move to leave out basic things like video recording, especially at a time when makes are releasing phones marketed around the concept of video recording. And with such a big screen it would be an awesome feature. I guess we can only hope that iphone gets more specs in its next installments but if you really want to talk about features if you put a list of what the phone can do for the n95 8gb and iphone side by side which one do you think would come out on top? n95 8gb of course
I'd like to join your vigorous defence of the fine N95.
Cramming all those features into that tiny house-brick sized device is very impressive. Well done Nokia.
It's obviously not fair to compare the web-browser in the N95 to the iPhone. It would be like comparing ...say... one of those little blue invalid carriages to a proper car. Not that I have anything against specialist disabled modes of transport. They are very efficient and cost-effective. Well done to Reliant, or whoever it is that makes them. And well done to Nokia too. A really brave little effort.
The screen on the 95 is just great too. It stops those with limited vision having to focus on something too large.
Oh and that Keyboard! Sheer design genius! Makes entering text a breeze. Having only 12 keys makes it so much simpler than having, say 26 keys.
Bav is right. The N95 is a winning device. If it were an athlete, it would win the special olympics every time.
C.
Bav,
I'd like to join your vigorous defence of the fine N95.
Cramming all those features into that tiny house-brick sized device is very impressive. Well done Nokia.
It's obviously not fair to compare the web-browser in the N95 to the iPhone. It would be like comparing ...say... one of those little blue invalid carriages to a proper car. Not that I have anything against specialist disabled modes of transport. They are very efficient and cost-effective. Well done to Reliant, or whoever it is that makes them. And well done to Nokia too. A really brave little effort.
The screen on the 95 is just great too. It stops those with limited vision having to focus on something too large.
Oh and that Keyboard! Sheer design genius! Makes entering text a breeze. Having only 12 keys makes it so much simpler than having, say 26 keys.
Bav is right. The N95 is a winning device. If it were an athlete, it would win the special olympics every time.
C.
You must have fat fingers.