MacBook Air demand trails that of original Intel-based MacBook

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  • Reply 81 of 189
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


    Again how do you know this? Do you have a crytal ball? You always make these points as absolute when they are just predictions. Where did you read that PC people are buying MBA's?



    I don't have to read it anywhere, it's common sense. Each MBA sale will increase the number of Macs?and Mac OS X?sold by one , so long as it wasn't lateral move in lieu of purchasing a different Mac. Or do you believe that no MBAs will be sold?
  • Reply 82 of 189
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


    STOP CALLING PEOPLE TROLLS. Just because you points are wrong you have to resort to childish name calling? Haven't you ever hear that "If you name it must be because you are it." ONLY A TROLL WOULD KNOW HIS OWN TO CALL.

    You're telling me to buy a cheap heavy laptop and I can't be a sarcastic back to you by telling you to buy a superexpensive ultra-light. Like why does that not make sense to you?



    teckstud-



    I have fallen for his tricks too. All he is looking for is a reaction from people, which he is getting. I've found the best way to get rid of a troll is to ignore them. Slowly but surely they will go away.
  • Reply 83 of 189
    teckstudteckstud Posts: 6,476member
    [QUOTE=minderbinder;1214078]First, isn't the only way for it NOT to increase market share is if 100% of them are sold to mac users? Do you really think they won't sell any of these to PC users?



    And second, isn't a mac sale that replaces an old retiring mac a good thing, even if that particular sale doesn't increase user base?



    More arguing for arguing sake instead of addressing the issues. Can we get back on topic?



    1.)Is smaller/lighter an advantage in a laptop or not?

    2.)Are there people willing to pay more for smaller/lighter or not?

    3.)Are there people willing to make sacrifices in performance/features to get smaller/lighter or not?]

    QUOTE]







    ANSWERS:

    1.) Yes but not necessary.

    2.) Yes the Neiman Marcus crowd.

    3.) Yes- Paris Hilton.



    My questions:

    1.) Wouldn't new MacBooksPros especially a 12' version sell better?

    2.) Didn't most people want a tablet at a lower cost instead of this since it's not very powerful?

    3.) Are PC people really going to switch for this with all that it's lacking?
  • Reply 84 of 189
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    The fact is that Apple has been mum on just what AIR market is suppose to be.

    In any event to take a 360 here Apple has been mum with respect to AIR's intended market. Frankly any high end market that many believe that this machine is targeted at simply doesn't exist in the Mac world. Or if it does is such a small part of the market as to be impossible to find. The AIR needs mass appeal simply because there are not enough potential customers willing to buy Apple hardware in the corporate world nor the frequent traveler world. Even if Apple stuffed XP into the box it still would not be attractive to this segment. Given Apple lack of comment on what market this machine is designed for maybe we can agree that it is the Blooming Idiot segment!



    Dave



    Well, not exactly. When this piece of hardware was released it was compared very specifically to light weight ultra-portables from other manufacturers. Anyone can look at the sales of this item and compare it to the sales of those items and decide whether or not this machine is a success.



    Furthermore, there are many seeming intangibles that one might imagine Apple will be looking for from the MBA. One, they want people coming through the door. Two, There are technical breakthroughs, like the processor, which will have use in other devices. There is the multi-touch track pad, too, and, in general, the efficient use of space is a breakthrough. Look for versions of these to find their way into other products this year.
  • Reply 85 of 189
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,841member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    You also have to realize that people are actually getting something for the money they spend on a Lexus. Not so with the AIR as they are actually getting less.



    Hello?



    Getting less what?



    You're getting "more" portability and that's what you are paying for. The reason you don't care to compare the MacBook Air to its direct competitors is that then you will have to admit that you are talking nonsense.



    Yes, the MacBook Air offers less power and capacity, and fewer ports, than the MacBook for more money, but the trade-off is that it is significantly more portable. They are not the same hardware. When you compare the MacBook Air against other laptops offering comparable hardware, the price looks good.
  • Reply 86 of 189
    Very simple:

    The computer is .25 inches thinner than a MB, weighs 2 lbs less, has a slower processor, 80 gig hard drive, slightly larger footprint, loses several basic features and costs 700 dollars more. Whats the niche? People who are willing to pay this premium obviously. Are there many? Probably not. This computer was a really stupid idea and is going to flop pretty badly because it doesn't make sense. Call me a troll for stating the facts I suppose.
  • Reply 87 of 189
    teckstudteckstud Posts: 6,476member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I don't have to read it anywhere, it's common sense. Each MBA sale will increase the number of Macs?and Mac OS X?sold by one , so long as it wasn't lateral move in lieu of purchasing a different Mac. Or do you believe that no MBAs will be sold?



    Of I course I believe it will sell and sell well- to MAC users. But that does not increase OS share.- unless you count with trickery like Sony does with it's products and double count for each computer used per household.
  • Reply 88 of 189
    teckstudteckstud Posts: 6,476member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tuneman07 View Post


    Very simple:

    The computer is .25 inches thinner than a MB, weighs 2 lbs less, has a slower processor, 80 gig hard drive, slightly larger footprint, loses several basic features and costs 700 dollars more. Whats the niche? People who are willing to pay this premium obviously. Are there many? Probably not. This computer was a really stupid idea and is going to flop pretty badly because it doesn't make sense. Call me a troll for stating the facts I suppose.



    Thank you - reasonable man.
  • Reply 89 of 189
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post


    So I guess the Mac Pro is a failure since it is aimed at pros and not the Average User? Same with the MBP? Same with the ipod touch, iphone, and classic?



    Both the Mac Pro and the MBP are equipped to satisfy the needs of the average user and then some.

    Quote:

    Heck, by that logic shouldn't car companies stop selling pickup trucks since the Average Driver wants a sedan?



    Hey now I drive a pickup! In any event my pickup still comes with the I/O to meet the needs of an average user. That is it has a heater, window defroster, nice seats, roll down windows.



    The point in the computer world is that a device becomes very unusable once the real I/O drops below a certain point. There is a level of I/O that everyone needs and that isn't meet on the AIR.

    Quote:



    Why is it so bad for a company to figure out that different buyers want different things, and make multiple products aimed at those different buyers?



    Actually I fully expect companies like Apple to make multiple products for different buyers. I also want them to be successful with the products they deliver. AIR would be much more attractive to the community if a few issues where resolved. All I'm saying is that if Apple wants to avoid a flop they can address these issues.



    Lets face it we have all seen what has happened to the American Automobile industry when they produce products that don't meet the needs of the average consumer. It is not a pretty sight at all if you go to Detroit.

    Quote:

    This is the kind of statement that gets you labled a troll. People are getting a size and weight reduction for the extra money.



    I fail to see where that is a troll as that is exactly what the problem is they are getting far less for a lot more money. A size and weight reduction by the way that is not really an exercise in new technology. Sure they got a custom packaged processor from Intel but the mother boards are pretty run of the mill. Due to everything being left out they shouldn't be considered expensive or in any way premium technology over any other laptop.

    Quote:

    Do you really not understand that advantage, or are you just pretending it doesn't exist for the benefit of your argument?



    The advantage goes to the manufacture who enjoys lower materials costs and production costs. Apple certainly isn't passing these advantages on to anyone.







    Thanks

    Dave
  • Reply 90 of 189
    teckstudteckstud Posts: 6,476member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by emoney35 View Post


    teckstud-



    I have fallen for his tricks too. All he is looking for is a reaction from people, which he is getting. I've found the best way to get rid of a troll is to ignore them. Slowly but surely they will go away.



    I have always discussed threads here with ideas and facts. I don't resort to calling people names and not dicussing what is on the thread as you have just done. Please go away yourself unless you are going to discuss the topic.
  • Reply 91 of 189
    gqbgqb Posts: 1,934member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by emoney35 View Post


    Now that I've been thoroughly distracted from the the topic at hand...my main point is that unless you really want the thinness/portability of MBA, then your money would probably be better spent on a Macbook.

    \\.



    Um, add 'ooh' factor to thinness/portability that those ARE the reasons to get the Air.

    Why people don't get that this is the Rolex of laptops.

    Whether that's a good niche to market to is one question. Whether it has to meet the needs of performance geeks it totally another.
  • Reply 92 of 189
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tuneman07 View Post


    Very simple:

    The computer is .25 inches thinner than a MB, weighs 2 lbs less, has a slower processor, 80 gig hard drive, slightly larger footprint, loses several basic features and costs 700 dollars more. Whats the niche? People who are willing to pay this premium obviously. Are there many? Probably not. This computer was a really stupid idea and is going to flop pretty badly because it doesn't make sense. Call me a troll for stating the facts I suppose.



    I wholeheartedly agree.
  • Reply 93 of 189
    gqbgqb Posts: 1,934member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


    I have always discussed threads here with ideas and facts. I don't resort to calling people names and not dicussing what is on the thread as you have just done. Please go away yourself unless you are going to discuss the topic.



    Well I'd hardly call starting most threads with "Jobs is a crook, Apple is out to rip you off, and you're all fanboy suckers" fact based, but we enjoy the irony.
  • Reply 94 of 189
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GQB View Post


    Um, add 'ooh' factor to thinness/portability that those ARE the reasons to get the Air.

    Why people don't get that this is the Rolex of laptops.

    Whether that's a good niche to market to is one question. Whether it has to meet the needs of performance geeks it totally another.



    Good points.
  • Reply 95 of 189
    quinneyquinney Posts: 2,528member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post




    However, Apple has nothing to apologize for with the MacBook Air. It is what it is, and as CEO-bait to get Macs into the business market, doesn't have to sell in really high numbers to be successful.



    That is an interesting point. It is believable that if you can attract top executives with

    a stylish, expensive portable laptop and get them hooked on Mac OS, they might be

    inclined to direct their underlings to investigate Macs for the enterprise.
  • Reply 96 of 189
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post


    Hello?



    Getting less what?



    You're getting "more" portability and that's what you are paying for. The reason you don't care to compare the MacBook Air to its direct competitors is that then you will have to admit that you are talking nonsense.



    Actually you are getting less even with respect to portability. This compared to Apple's own products. Weight isn't everything with respect to portability.

    Quote:



    Yes, the MacBook air offers less power, and capacity and fewer ports than the MacBook for more money, but the trade-off is that it is significantly more portable.



    Oh come on that is complete BS you can walk into the Apple store and see them sitting side by side. There is very little physical difference and when you take into account that you will be compelled to wander around with hubs and dongles and other crap, for the AIR, it doesn't look all that portable or useful.

    Quote:

    They are not the same hardware. When you compare the MacBook Air against other laptops offering comparable hardware, the price looks good.



    Oh come on again what other hardware is so limited. Further I can buy an ASUS Eee PC and end up with more I/O ports. Not that the Eee Pc meets my needs either but they crammed a lot of I/O into that machine without much effort. Apple on the other hand had to produce a machine with out the basics for no apparent reason. This is the biggest issue with AIR, that is they could easily have supplied it with a better complement of I/O.



    Dave
  • Reply 97 of 189
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


    I have always discussed threads here with ideas and facts. I don't resort to calling people names and not dicussing what is on the thread as you have just done. Please go away yourself unless you are going to discuss the topic.



    Man, now I can see why minderbinder got after you. I was on your side! I was trying to help you!



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GQB View Post


    Well I'd hardly call starting most threads with "Jobs is a crook, Apple is out to rip you off, and you're all fanboy suckers" fact based, but we enjoy the irony.



    Can't argue with those facts.
  • Reply 98 of 189
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tuneman07 View Post


    Very simple:

    The computer is .25 inches thinner than a MB, weighs 2 lbs less, has a slower processor, 80 gig hard drive, slightly larger footprint, loses several basic features and costs 700 dollars more. Whats the niche? People who are willing to pay this premium obviously. Are there many? Probably not. This computer was a really stupid idea and is going to flop pretty badly because it doesn't make sense. Call me a troll for stating the facts I suppose.



    Amen.



    What surprises me is the defense is virtually everyone admits that this is a niche machine ... And if you say only the rich will buy it you are all of a sudden a "richaphobe" or a troll.



    Apple made bad design decisions on this that cost them sales and . The analysts here have proved it with the sales numbers which will not get better I assure you. Early adopter wonderlust will go away soon.



    Could they have made it a little smaller in footprint to make it more appealing: Yes, look at all the blank space around the screen!

    Could they have put a faster processor in: Yes, but admittedly difficult.

    Could they have had more that 80 gigs: Yes, Definitely yes.

    Could they have put more ports on it to broaden appeal: Yes, Definitely yes.

    Could they have sold it a cheaper price: Yes

    Could they have put a replaceable battery in: Yes Sony did... at same weight as apple.



    Apple = Innovative (usually ... but not this time).
  • Reply 99 of 189
    Not really a surprise, the price does push the market base for this product outside the mass consumer market.



    When I saw the Macbook Air at Macworld, my first thought was college students, women and other people who are very style oriented would love this laptop, but the price premium compared to the Macbook would force many to look at the Air and buy a Macbook. I am sure those same consumers buy the basic white macbook in greater numbers then pay the premium for the black macbook.



    Hypothetically, as the product infrastructure takes off, I could see the Air product line expand with lower and higher price point and feature models. What we see currently as the AIR could replace the Macbook at the Macbook price point and a larger screen feature rich model for users demanding higher performance. The I-Phone has followed this theory to a point with lower memory models dropping in price as higher memory models come out at the original price point.



    If the Macbook Air had a 20%-25% price premium over the base Macbook, I would probably buy one, As it is today, it cost an extra $101 for the base Macbook Pro compared to an Air with the external drive add on. The lightweight and design of the Air would be nice, but dollar for dollar, I would spend just over 5% more on a Macbook Pro.
  • Reply 100 of 189
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


    Of I course I believe it will sell and sell well- to MAC users. But that does not increase OS share.- unless you count with trickery like Sony does with it's products and double count for each computer used per household.



    To reiterate, so long as it's not sold in lieu of another Mac purchase it will increase the number of Mac/Leopard sales. Marketshare counts the number of units sold, not the number of people of using them.
    Market is the state of trade at a particular time or in a particular context.

    Market share is a measure of the portion of a market controlled by a particular company or product.

    Installed base is a measure of the number of units of a particular type of system actually in use.

    User base is a measure of the number of individuals using a particular product.
    Your comment about Sony counting each machine in a household makes me believe you are referring to user base in this conversation. Still, all you'd need is one person's switch to OS X to be a MBA. Certainly not common, but not impossible.
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