Ah yes, price gouging. Taking advantage of an emergency situation to charge outrageous prices. If you can find me an emergency situation that ATT is exploiting, I'll pay for your lawyer.
Lets all become lawyers and sue everyone else, then we'll all be happy!
Waa!
Define
Noun\t1.\tprice gouging - pricing above the market price when no alternative retailer is available
Noun\t1.\tprice gouging - pricing above the market price when no alternative retailer is available
Not applicable. Neither ATT nor Apple provide a product that alternative retailers do not. Simply having the only iPhone does not qualify - the iPhone is a multimedia smartphone, and there are dozens.
Doesn't seem like too horrible an increase, considering I'll be getting 3G data speeds.
you may, but there are TONS of people who I'm sure don't realize that they aren't within a 3G coverage area. I've got 3G coverage areas on either side of my home town, but it isn't here... yet. Of course it's only a matter of time, but I still think it's sad how many people won't know and eventually will blame apple or someone else for their own lack of understanding.
I'll call em out when they mess up, and why would anyone be an apologist to at&t... by the way, they are the one charging you, not Apple.
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Originally Posted by SDW2001
I have a RAZR. I had a moto e815 before, which I had to replace. It cost me $175, so I don't want to hear about "free."
it cost you $175 cause you were still in contract... they aren't going to subsidize another phone for you to need replacing again. wouldn't make business sense. if every time I wanted a new phone I just rolled into AT&T and signed up another 2 years and got another free phone, they would be bankrupt. When you got your flashy moto e815, whatever price you paid was probably about $200 less then it woulda cost any guy to walk in the store, buy, and leave. you didn't use that phone for 2 years and needed a new one... AT&T has you sign a contract saying that you will use the phone for 2 years so they can recoup that $200 they took off the phone initially. The made you pay $175 for the razr cause you still hadn't paid them back the $200 the gave you off your original phone.
Use that same formula but replace e815 with razr, and replace razr with new iphone. you haven't given them the money back they put into the original phone for you, so why give you more money off another phone?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001
$20 a month for similar service capability is different.
$20 a month to bring you to the same cost as every other smartphone at&t has in their lineup. and similar service =/= GPS and 3G... but those aren't the reasons for the price hike, it's the subsidy of the phone.
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Originally Posted by SDW2001
No one said they were. But Apple is advertising a price that is fiction for some people.
199 with 2 year contract is the price.... it's only fiction if you are totally unaware of how cellphone contracts work. All prices listed for any cell phone in the AT&T store is for a 2 year contract with new activation, or expired contract. See the basic reasoning 2 questions above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001
$60 a month was a "break?" What is outdated wireless technology? The phone wasn't subsidized and it was a brand new product. That's why it cost so much. ATT&T didn't give anyone a "break." Jesus.
the break because you paid full price for the phone. so it was a break because they could have continued to charge the original iphone users the same fees that they charge everyone else, and as you can see, people don't really seem to understand the concept behind subsidizing a phone.
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Originally Posted by SDW2001
So the iPhone is the only "relevant" phone? And pssst: It's not the "going rate" at all. Can you read? It's more than the going rate.
relevant, as in, using the same technology the other phones on the network have been using for years. and it's not more than the going rate.... unless you think the going rate is what they are charging for the original iphone, which again, shows your amazing sleuthing skills...
the going rate on ANY phone on AT&T is $39.99 for 450 minutes.... sound familiar? and $30 for unlimited smartphone data.... that also sounds like a familiar price... 69.99.. then adding texts.... holy crap, you guessed it, 5 buckeroos.
it's the same as every other phone that AT&T has, and considering it's better than every other phone AT&T has, I wouldn't complain that you have to pay the same amount.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001
That quote was from me....and it was LAST YEAR, champ. Now, the data wasn't unlimited technically...it did use my plan minutes. But I could use my e815 as a wireless modem over VZW broadband....all for about $55 a month. If it was an evening or weekend, the minutes weren't an issue at all. In fact, I don't think it actually did use the minutes.
I'm glad you don't work at AT&T too...you'd be even more of an apologist. I'm no stranger to paying for quality, but AT&T and Apple are bending their customers over on this one. It's significantly more money with less product included. You can spin it any way you'd like...it still sucks.
so technically, if you wanted to make a call, and you were on the net downloading all your facts about cell plans, you would have to stop searching to make your call since it was using the same cell technology. I bet it was a lightening fast connection too if it was going over the voice signals... and yeah, I usually liked to wait until 9pm or till saturday rolls around to do my web browsing too, so I guess that's a killer deal.
if you paid for your data in that method through Verizon you are very much a stranger to paying for quality.
This brings me to the only relevant part of your post, and you touched on it, but didn't quite say it out loud, probably because it's hard to make a coherent thought when you are throwing insults at me like "champ", but the American method of subsidizing phones for more expensive plans is flawed.
I should have the choice to pay more for my phone, and have a cheaper plan. This does not exist. I can pay more and not be tied to a contract, but I still have to pay a monthly bill as if I received a discount for the phone. Again, this is across the board with all cell carriers in America, but it's a broken plan. I shouldn't be forced to take the $200 discount on the phone if I choose not to. This was what AT&T offered everyone who bought the original iphone, and again I still think people should have been given a choice. I think many more people would have bought the original iphone if it was $200 cheaper and the rates were the same as all other phones. This would have also stopped the brigade of angry, confused, and uninformed customers who don't know what's really going on because everyone would have just went along with the plans like they do for every other phone.
And while you didn't out right say this, it is the argument you are looking for, you are just so enraged with anger that you can't afford an iphone, that you can only attack the companies involved instead of the system.
(Also while looking for reasons to bitch, try complaining about AT&T agreeing to allow the government to illegally listen in to our private phone conversations whenever they see fit without a warrant... that's a little bit bigger of a deal since you know it's against the constitution and all)
And while you didn't bring it up, I've read some people saying AT&T shouldn't be charging people for 3G coverage that don't have 3G coverage in their area. This isn't true, you aren't paying more for the 3G, you are paying more because you are purchasing the phone for significantly less money than it's actually worth... however, this goes back to my original complaint, which should be the one people are using, and that is that AT&T should offer the choice. If I want to pay full price for a phone, I should be able to do so and have a plan similar to the original iphone plan. if I want to come to AT&T with my own phone, I should be able to just sign up for a cheaper plan. I shouldn't be forced to pitch into the subsidy pot for people that chose to have their phone subsidized. I think that carriers steer away from this because it's obvious people just really don't understand what's really going on.
Not applicable. Neither ATT nor Apple provide a product that alternative retailers do not. Simply having the only iPhone does not qualify - the iPhone is a multimedia smartphone, and there are dozens.
Are you planning to sue?
I agree. Beside, If you don't like AT&T you can buy the $599 unsubsidized iPhone and use it with T-Mobile (your only alternative in the US). I think $599 is reasonable since other smartphones such as N95 and are sold for almost the same price. I have been using smartphones for long time and they are usually priced between $500 and $700 without a contract. However, no news yet about official unlocking of the unsubsidized phone.
$20 for text messaging makes me furious. however, its interesting that the family plans are fairly well priced. however, i think the $40 per line is a bit spendy. overall, family plans are so much cheaper its nuts and im pissed off at how this is set up. its not going to be easy signing people who just want iphones and no fancy shit to these types of plans.
I just have to rant about this one more time. TEXT MESSAGES ARE THE BIGGEST RIP OFF IN THE WORLD!! It takes NOTHING for a carrier to deliver an SMS. It's only a few bits of text. It just angers me so much for some reason. I actually kinda jumped down a guy's throat who was trying to sell me the unlimited text messaging one time. I can find some other way to send text than to pay them for NOTHING!!
Otherwise, I have nothing to complain about. Our family plan won't go up by much with 2 iPhones on it. Being a business owner, I understand that you have to go up sometimes. However, I would never charge more than $5/mo for unlimited SMS!
Ok. I'm done.
Totally agree. It's bad enough that the normal plan is a bit high although not a killer. But charging like that for TEXT is ridiculous. Period.
I agree. Beside, If you don't like AT&T you can buy the $599 unsubsidized iPhone and use it with T-Mobile (your only alternative in the US). I think $599 is reasonable since other smartphones such as N95 and are sold for almost the same price. I have been using smartphones for long time and they are usually priced between $500 and $700 without a contract. However, no news yet about official unlocking of the unsubsidized phone.
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Originally Posted by cameronj
Not applicable. Neither ATT nor Apple provide a product that alternative retailers do not. Simply having the only iPhone does not qualify - the iPhone is a multimedia smartphone, and there are dozens.
Are you planning to sue?
Not planning on it. I don't like AT&T, but there is no alternative - sorry NasserAE. At least not another retailer in the USA - stories about a future unlocked version doesn't mean I can buy it. There is no mention on Apples website of a true unlocked version - wish there was so I could swap the SIM when I am overseas.
Mostly I don't like AT&T because their coverage is weak in so many areas, especially easy coast. These prices would make more sense if they allowed tethering - even if they restricted it to so many hours per billing cycle.
Lastly - the iphone is clearly not just another smartphone - I have had a Q, and several Treos - and they just are not the same.
Several people post annoyingly about sms being out-moded and people cannot grasp the alternatives. As well as in business where we use iphones, my family (here in usa) uses verizon - camera phones for the improved coverage and more affordable famiy plans. I also have many friends and relations in the UK. Emailing those phones is NOT an option, calling is expensive and unnecessary, esp. UK to USA, so what is wrong with SMS? Its easy, quick and universal. AT&T are not gouging me for text messaging, they are just ripping me off
So I have a 1st gen and the GF has a blackberry pearl. I'm upgrading to the iPhone 3G for $199 I hope. And the GF would be taking over my current iPhone. Am I going to be charged a termination fee of some sorts?
Not planning on it. I don't like AT&T, but there is no alternative - sorry NasserAE. At least not another retailer in the USA - stories about a future unlocked version doesn't mean I can buy it. There is no mention on Apples website of a true unlocked version - wish there was so I could swap the SIM when I am overseas.
Mostly I don't like AT&T because their coverage is weak in so many areas, especially easy coast. These prices would make more sense if they allowed tethering - even if they restricted it to so many hours per billing cycle.
Lastly - the iphone is clearly not just another smartphone - I have had a Q, and several Treos - and they just are not the same.
Several people post annoyingly about sms being out-moded and people cannot grasp the alternatives. As well as in business where we use iphones, my family (here in usa) uses verizon - camera phones for the improved coverage and more affordable famiy plans. I also have many friends and relations in the UK. Emailing those phones is NOT an option, calling is expensive and unnecessary, esp. UK to USA, so what is wrong with SMS? Its easy, quick and universal. AT&T are not gouging me for text messaging, they are just ripping me off
That's my point. We are already paying for unlimited data plan. Regardless of the difference in data type between SMS, MMS, and internet phone makers and carrier should start using another alternative for text messaging using the internet. Maybe by reducing number of SMS and MMS subscriptions and the increasing IM clients we can finally get there. I have friends and relatives all over the world and it seems that all carriers (at least the ones I used) started charging extra for international SMS a year or two ago. AT&T also charge you for SMS sent to international destinations whether you have text messaging plan or not.
Heh, no, it doesn't use your carrier's towers. People reply back just as if they were typing on their computer. And this is not an iChat feature - on AIM you can add a new buddy by number by adding "+1999-999-9999" where the 9s are the number, and your chat messages will go to their phone as txts. I can never understand why I'm the only person I know who does this, it's so easy.
What happens though is someone texts your cellphone number from their cellphone? The message won't come to your AIM client on your iPhone, but rather as an SMS that'll cost you 20 cents, no?
I tried searching everywhere else couldn't find the answer. I hope someone can help me out here.
So my company does not provide exchange services for my work email but I do have my own personal email on hosted exchange which provides me with contacts and calendering service as well. Now will I be able to use those exchange features without the business plan ($45/mo) and just the normal data plan ($30/mo)
There are no statues, but there are plenty of books that govern the way companies can do business.
This line is confusing. The only way I understand that a book can govern anything is if it's a law / statute.
Show me the US law that that applies to the pricing of luxury goods and services if the company is not a monopoly. I personally have not heard of one.
I say not a monopoly because AT&T isn't one, even though you seemed to say that they are. I call SMS a luxury service because most people really don't *need* SMS to get by even in life, no one really has to use it, people *choose* to use it.
I see little cause to believe that the pricing is illegal, and I don't think there is reason to regulate the pricing either. I don't like the pricing, therefore I won't use that service. But someone that does think the pricing is worthwhile, then I have no problem with them using it.
If what you're really saying is that it's legal but it doesn't make good business sense to charge what they are. If bad pricing kills them, then that's not my problem either.
What happens though is someone texts your cellphone number from their cellphone? The message won't come to your AIM client on your iPhone, but rather as an SMS that'll cost you 20 cents, no?
Correct. But that of course has nothing to do with the presence of an AIM client on your cell.
Then I'm sure you're glad to hear that the price increase gets the price of the service ($30) into line with all the other unlimited 3G services out there.
I'm OK with the increase provided it includes SMS. Also, VZW for example lets you add unlimited data to any voice plan.
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Boy I hope lots of people do sue over it, and I hope they lose their homes as a result of all the legal fees they have to pay for the frivolous suit.
Suing AT&T wouldn't work, because they've done nothing illegal. However, Apple is going to get sued, because the phone does not cost $199/$299 with a 2 year contract for all customers. It's deceptive. If you're not eligible for an upgrade, you pay twice as much. Just watch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
The premium over the previous plan is $10 a month for data or $15 a month is include the SMS from the previous individual plan.
$15.00 a month is what we need to use, since the prior plan included 200 SMS.
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Just as you can't blame AT&T or Apple for making you terminate your VZW plan early to get an iPhone
I agree with that. I was just pointing out the real cost. Speaking of which, wait until you see what I tell the VZW to do with their termination fee. I've been a customer since 2001. I had to buy a new phone before I was due for an upgrade, and they made me sign up for two more years just to pay $175 for a RAZR. I'm up in January, but I'm done with them. They'll never see the termination fee from me...not after 7 years.
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you can't call it an AT&T premium just because you are paying less with a different plan on a different carrier.
Other than data and the total lack of SMS, it's the same plan. I pay $54.99 a month now for 450 anytime minutes, unlimited VZW to VZW, unlimited SMS within VZW with 500 non-VZW SMS included, and unlimited nights and weekends. It's a premium. I'm going to pay $74.99 pre-tax for the same plan with only 200 SMS and unlimited data.
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As for the cost, the iPhone is also being sold at half the price than previously and AT&T has done a bang up job to get decent 3G coverage with good speeds over the past year. Both the subsidy and the network upgrade cost AT&T.
Boo fucking hoo. Let me cry for them. They still don't have to rape their customers with the SMS. I'm fine with the 3G data capability costing a little more money, but it should include SMS.
And remember...it's not really half the price for some people. A good majority of non-iPhone AT&T customers are going to have to pay $399/$499.
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If your current plan gives you data for less money and you are stuck with a early termination fee then it sounds like you should stay with VZW.
This is the entire point. It's not just about the plan and AT&T knows it. It's about the phone. Do I need an iPhone? No. Do I want one? Yes. And if I want one, I'm locked into AT&T and their costly plans with less features. It's not illegal, but that doesn't make it something to be happy about.
Suing AT&T wouldn't work, because they've done nothing illegal. However, Apple is going to get sued, because the phone does not cost $199/$299 with a 2 year contract for all customers. It's deceptive. If you're not eligible for an upgrade, you pay twice as much. Just watch.
Apple has nothing to do with and cannot be sued for AT&T upgrade policy. You have agreed to the policy if you signed the contract.
Suing AT&T wouldn't work, because they've done nothing illegal. However, Apple is going to get sued, because the phone does not cost $199/$299 with a 2 year contract for all customers. It's deceptive. If you're not eligible for an upgrade, you pay twice as much. Just watch.
The Apple material I've seen and heard is pretty clear that price applies to new contracts. I think this specific exclusion has already been addressed once or twice in this thread.
Stopped by AT&T store yesterday and got clarification on their definition of a "qualifying" plan for current customers who wish to get the iPhone.
- For current customers who are "upgrade eligible" then their rate plan is also deemed a "qualifying" plan and DOES NOT change when purchasing the iPhone 3G.
This is a huge benefit, since the recently-released iPhone plans for new customers are so much higher.
Other interesting information learned during corporate store visit:
1.) Existing pamily plan lines who wish to get iPhone:
In my current family plan, my wife's phone line is the "primary" number and my line is the additional $9.99/month line. When I buy the iPhone next week, I still have to sign the 2-year committment to have my service with AT&T, but my line is still considered the "additional" line. NO changes are made to your existing voice rate plan. The only extra thing you have to pay is the $30 data plan per month.
2.) Availability of accessories
The sales rep informed me that they should be getting 3G accessories by Monday of next week, so you can buy accessories ahead of time or compare them to other ones online.
3.) iPhone Inventory
Corporate stores expect to have plenty of 3G iPhones in stock. Even if they run out, AT&T has been good about re-stocking them very fast (next 1 - 2 days).
I would advise any existing AT&T customer to go to their nearest store IN PERSON and talk with a sales rep.
I went to the Apple retail store this past weekend and they are totally CLUELESS of what's going on.
Of course, you won't see this anywhere in AT&T's literature because they don't want you to know about this. That's why I went into a corporate store in person yesterday.
The Apple material I've seen and heard is pretty clear that price applies to new contracts. I think this specific exclusion has already been addressed once or twice in this thread.
it's not worth it... he doesn't seem to want to actually listen to reason. I tried to point out why all his arguments were absurd, and he brushed over my post and threw up his incorrect facts all over the place again at someone else.
Apple has nothing to do with and cannot be sued for AT&T upgrade policy. You have agreed to the policy if you signed the contract.
Yes, they do. They are partners. They also clearly advertise the phone as costing X/Y with a 2 year contract. They do say "new" 2 year contract, but that doesn't cover it. A current AT&T customer is required to sign up for an additional two years to get the non-iPhone upgrade price of $399/$499. It's deceptive and I predict they will need to change their advertising. It would be fine to say "iPhone starts at $199* and then indicate that price is only for new AT&T customers and current customers eligible for an upgrade.
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Originally Posted by JeffDM
The Apple material I've seen and heard is pretty clear that price applies to new contracts. I think this specific exclusion has already been addressed once or twice in this thread.
Again, a person who is not eligible is told they must sign up for a new contract to get the $399/$499 price. It's not clear.
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Originally Posted by chadisawesome
it's not worth it... he doesn't seem to want to actually listen to reason. I tried to point out why all his arguments were absurd, and he brushed over my post and threw up his incorrect facts all over the place again at someone else.
I love it. First, don't expect to carry any weight around here with your whooping 42 post noob status.
Secondly, please show me what "incorrect facts" I posted. Really, I can't wait. If you can't address what I posted, then please go away. We don't have time for people like you.
Comments
Ah yes, price gouging. Taking advantage of an emergency situation to charge outrageous prices. If you can find me an emergency situation that ATT is exploiting, I'll pay for your lawyer.
Lets all become lawyers and sue everyone else, then we'll all be happy!
Waa!
Define
Noun\t1.\tprice gouging - pricing above the market price when no alternative retailer is available
Define
Noun\t1.\tprice gouging - pricing above the market price when no alternative retailer is available
Not applicable. Neither ATT nor Apple provide a product that alternative retailers do not. Simply having the only iPhone does not qualify - the iPhone is a multimedia smartphone, and there are dozens.
Are you planning to sue?
Doesn't seem like too horrible an increase, considering I'll be getting 3G data speeds.
you may, but there are TONS of people who I'm sure don't realize that they aren't within a 3G coverage area. I've got 3G coverage areas on either side of my home town, but it isn't here... yet. Of course it's only a matter of time, but I still think it's sad how many people won't know and eventually will blame apple or someone else for their own lack of understanding.
It's mind boggling what an apologist you are.
I'll call em out when they mess up, and why would anyone be an apologist to at&t... by the way, they are the one charging you, not Apple.
I have a RAZR. I had a moto e815 before, which I had to replace. It cost me $175, so I don't want to hear about "free."
it cost you $175 cause you were still in contract... they aren't going to subsidize another phone for you to need replacing again. wouldn't make business sense. if every time I wanted a new phone I just rolled into AT&T and signed up another 2 years and got another free phone, they would be bankrupt. When you got your flashy moto e815, whatever price you paid was probably about $200 less then it woulda cost any guy to walk in the store, buy, and leave. you didn't use that phone for 2 years and needed a new one... AT&T has you sign a contract saying that you will use the phone for 2 years so they can recoup that $200 they took off the phone initially. The made you pay $175 for the razr cause you still hadn't paid them back the $200 the gave you off your original phone.
Use that same formula but replace e815 with razr, and replace razr with new iphone. you haven't given them the money back they put into the original phone for you, so why give you more money off another phone?
$20 a month for similar service capability is different.
$20 a month to bring you to the same cost as every other smartphone at&t has in their lineup. and similar service =/= GPS and 3G... but those aren't the reasons for the price hike, it's the subsidy of the phone.
No one said they were. But Apple is advertising a price that is fiction for some people.
199 with 2 year contract is the price.... it's only fiction if you are totally unaware of how cellphone contracts work. All prices listed for any cell phone in the AT&T store is for a 2 year contract with new activation, or expired contract. See the basic reasoning 2 questions above.
the break because you paid full price for the phone. so it was a break because they could have continued to charge the original iphone users the same fees that they charge everyone else, and as you can see, people don't really seem to understand the concept behind subsidizing a phone.
So the iPhone is the only "relevant" phone? And pssst: It's not the "going rate" at all. Can you read? It's more than the going rate.
relevant, as in, using the same technology the other phones on the network have been using for years. and it's not more than the going rate.... unless you think the going rate is what they are charging for the original iphone, which again, shows your amazing sleuthing skills...
the going rate on ANY phone on AT&T is $39.99 for 450 minutes.... sound familiar? and $30 for unlimited smartphone data.... that also sounds like a familiar price... 69.99.. then adding texts.... holy crap, you guessed it, 5 buckeroos.
it's the same as every other phone that AT&T has, and considering it's better than every other phone AT&T has, I wouldn't complain that you have to pay the same amount.
That quote was from me....and it was LAST YEAR, champ. Now, the data wasn't unlimited technically...it did use my plan minutes. But I could use my e815 as a wireless modem over VZW broadband....all for about $55 a month. If it was an evening or weekend, the minutes weren't an issue at all. In fact, I don't think it actually did use the minutes.
I'm glad you don't work at AT&T too...you'd be even more of an apologist. I'm no stranger to paying for quality, but AT&T and Apple are bending their customers over on this one. It's significantly more money with less product included. You can spin it any way you'd like...it still sucks.
so technically, if you wanted to make a call, and you were on the net downloading all your facts about cell plans, you would have to stop searching to make your call since it was using the same cell technology. I bet it was a lightening fast connection too if it was going over the voice signals... and yeah, I usually liked to wait until 9pm or till saturday rolls around to do my web browsing too, so I guess that's a killer deal.
if you paid for your data in that method through Verizon you are very much a stranger to paying for quality.
This brings me to the only relevant part of your post, and you touched on it, but didn't quite say it out loud, probably because it's hard to make a coherent thought when you are throwing insults at me like "champ", but the American method of subsidizing phones for more expensive plans is flawed.
I should have the choice to pay more for my phone, and have a cheaper plan. This does not exist. I can pay more and not be tied to a contract, but I still have to pay a monthly bill as if I received a discount for the phone. Again, this is across the board with all cell carriers in America, but it's a broken plan. I shouldn't be forced to take the $200 discount on the phone if I choose not to. This was what AT&T offered everyone who bought the original iphone, and again I still think people should have been given a choice. I think many more people would have bought the original iphone if it was $200 cheaper and the rates were the same as all other phones. This would have also stopped the brigade of angry, confused, and uninformed customers who don't know what's really going on because everyone would have just went along with the plans like they do for every other phone.
And while you didn't out right say this, it is the argument you are looking for, you are just so enraged with anger that you can't afford an iphone, that you can only attack the companies involved instead of the system.
(Also while looking for reasons to bitch, try complaining about AT&T agreeing to allow the government to illegally listen in to our private phone conversations whenever they see fit without a warrant... that's a little bit bigger of a deal since you know it's against the constitution and all)
And while you didn't bring it up, I've read some people saying AT&T shouldn't be charging people for 3G coverage that don't have 3G coverage in their area. This isn't true, you aren't paying more for the 3G, you are paying more because you are purchasing the phone for significantly less money than it's actually worth... however, this goes back to my original complaint, which should be the one people are using, and that is that AT&T should offer the choice. If I want to pay full price for a phone, I should be able to do so and have a plan similar to the original iphone plan. if I want to come to AT&T with my own phone, I should be able to just sign up for a cheaper plan. I shouldn't be forced to pitch into the subsidy pot for people that chose to have their phone subsidized. I think that carriers steer away from this because it's obvious people just really don't understand what's really going on.
Not applicable. Neither ATT nor Apple provide a product that alternative retailers do not. Simply having the only iPhone does not qualify - the iPhone is a multimedia smartphone, and there are dozens.
Are you planning to sue?
I agree. Beside, If you don't like AT&T you can buy the $599 unsubsidized iPhone and use it with T-Mobile (your only alternative in the US). I think $599 is reasonable since other smartphones such as N95 and are sold for almost the same price. I have been using smartphones for long time and they are usually priced between $500 and $700 without a contract. However, no news yet about official unlocking of the unsubsidized phone.
I just have to rant about this one more time. TEXT MESSAGES ARE THE BIGGEST RIP OFF IN THE WORLD!! It takes NOTHING for a carrier to deliver an SMS. It's only a few bits of text. It just angers me so much for some reason. I actually kinda jumped down a guy's throat who was trying to sell me the unlimited text messaging one time. I can find some other way to send text than to pay them for NOTHING!!
Otherwise, I have nothing to complain about. Our family plan won't go up by much with 2 iPhones on it. Being a business owner, I understand that you have to go up sometimes. However, I would never charge more than $5/mo for unlimited SMS!
Ok. I'm done.
Totally agree. It's bad enough that the normal plan is a bit high although not a killer. But charging like that for TEXT is ridiculous. Period.
I agree. Beside, If you don't like AT&T you can buy the $599 unsubsidized iPhone and use it with T-Mobile (your only alternative in the US). I think $599 is reasonable since other smartphones such as N95 and are sold for almost the same price. I have been using smartphones for long time and they are usually priced between $500 and $700 without a contract. However, no news yet about official unlocking of the unsubsidized phone.
Not applicable. Neither ATT nor Apple provide a product that alternative retailers do not. Simply having the only iPhone does not qualify - the iPhone is a multimedia smartphone, and there are dozens.
Are you planning to sue?
Not planning on it. I don't like AT&T, but there is no alternative - sorry NasserAE. At least not another retailer in the USA - stories about a future unlocked version doesn't mean I can buy it. There is no mention on Apples website of a true unlocked version - wish there was so I could swap the SIM when I am overseas.
Mostly I don't like AT&T because their coverage is weak in so many areas, especially easy coast. These prices would make more sense if they allowed tethering - even if they restricted it to so many hours per billing cycle.
Lastly - the iphone is clearly not just another smartphone - I have had a Q, and several Treos - and they just are not the same.
Several people post annoyingly about sms being out-moded and people cannot grasp the alternatives. As well as in business where we use iphones, my family (here in usa) uses verizon - camera phones for the improved coverage and more affordable famiy plans. I also have many friends and relations in the UK. Emailing those phones is NOT an option, calling is expensive and unnecessary, esp. UK to USA, so what is wrong with SMS? Its easy, quick and universal. AT&T are not gouging me for text messaging, they are just ripping me off
Not planning on it. I don't like AT&T, but there is no alternative - sorry NasserAE. At least not another retailer in the USA - stories about a future unlocked version doesn't mean I can buy it. There is no mention on Apples website of a true unlocked version - wish there was so I could swap the SIM when I am overseas.
Mostly I don't like AT&T because their coverage is weak in so many areas, especially easy coast. These prices would make more sense if they allowed tethering - even if they restricted it to so many hours per billing cycle.
Lastly - the iphone is clearly not just another smartphone - I have had a Q, and several Treos - and they just are not the same.
Several people post annoyingly about sms being out-moded and people cannot grasp the alternatives. As well as in business where we use iphones, my family (here in usa) uses verizon - camera phones for the improved coverage and more affordable famiy plans. I also have many friends and relations in the UK. Emailing those phones is NOT an option, calling is expensive and unnecessary, esp. UK to USA, so what is wrong with SMS? Its easy, quick and universal. AT&T are not gouging me for text messaging, they are just ripping me off
That's my point. We are already paying for unlimited data plan. Regardless of the difference in data type between SMS, MMS, and internet phone makers and carrier should start using another alternative for text messaging using the internet. Maybe by reducing number of SMS and MMS subscriptions and the increasing IM clients we can finally get there. I have friends and relatives all over the world and it seems that all carriers (at least the ones I used) started charging extra for international SMS a year or two ago. AT&T also charge you for SMS sent to international destinations whether you have text messaging plan or not.
Heh, no, it doesn't use your carrier's towers. People reply back just as if they were typing on their computer. And this is not an iChat feature - on AIM you can add a new buddy by number by adding "+1999-999-9999" where the 9s are the number, and your chat messages will go to their phone as txts. I can never understand why I'm the only person I know who does this, it's so easy.
What happens though is someone texts your cellphone number from their cellphone? The message won't come to your AIM client on your iPhone, but rather as an SMS that'll cost you 20 cents, no?
So my company does not provide exchange services for my work email but I do have my own personal email on hosted exchange which provides me with contacts and calendering service as well. Now will I be able to use those exchange features without the business plan ($45/mo) and just the normal data plan ($30/mo)
Thanks.
There are no statues, but there are plenty of books that govern the way companies can do business.
This line is confusing. The only way I understand that a book can govern anything is if it's a law / statute.
Show me the US law that that applies to the pricing of luxury goods and services if the company is not a monopoly. I personally have not heard of one.
I say not a monopoly because AT&T isn't one, even though you seemed to say that they are. I call SMS a luxury service because most people really don't *need* SMS to get by even in life, no one really has to use it, people *choose* to use it.
I see little cause to believe that the pricing is illegal, and I don't think there is reason to regulate the pricing either. I don't like the pricing, therefore I won't use that service. But someone that does think the pricing is worthwhile, then I have no problem with them using it.
If what you're really saying is that it's legal but it doesn't make good business sense to charge what they are. If bad pricing kills them, then that's not my problem either.
What happens though is someone texts your cellphone number from their cellphone? The message won't come to your AIM client on your iPhone, but rather as an SMS that'll cost you 20 cents, no?
Correct. But that of course has nothing to do with the presence of an AIM client on your cell.
Then I'm sure you're glad to hear that the price increase gets the price of the service ($30) into line with all the other unlimited 3G services out there.
I'm OK with the increase provided it includes SMS. Also, VZW for example lets you add unlimited data to any voice plan.
Boy I hope lots of people do sue over it, and I hope they lose their homes as a result of all the legal fees they have to pay for the frivolous suit.
Suing AT&T wouldn't work, because they've done nothing illegal. However, Apple is going to get sued, because the phone does not cost $199/$299 with a 2 year contract for all customers. It's deceptive. If you're not eligible for an upgrade, you pay twice as much. Just watch.
The premium over the previous plan is $10 a month for data or $15 a month is include the SMS from the previous individual plan.
$15.00 a month is what we need to use, since the prior plan included 200 SMS.
Just as you can't blame AT&T or Apple for making you terminate your VZW plan early to get an iPhone
I agree with that. I was just pointing out the real cost. Speaking of which, wait until you see what I tell the VZW to do with their termination fee. I've been a customer since 2001. I had to buy a new phone before I was due for an upgrade, and they made me sign up for two more years just to pay $175 for a RAZR. I'm up in January, but I'm done with them. They'll never see the termination fee from me...not after 7 years.
you can't call it an AT&T premium just because you are paying less with a different plan on a different carrier.
Other than data and the total lack of SMS, it's the same plan. I pay $54.99 a month now for 450 anytime minutes, unlimited VZW to VZW, unlimited SMS within VZW with 500 non-VZW SMS included, and unlimited nights and weekends. It's a premium. I'm going to pay $74.99 pre-tax for the same plan with only 200 SMS and unlimited data.
As for the cost, the iPhone is also being sold at half the price than previously and AT&T has done a bang up job to get decent 3G coverage with good speeds over the past year. Both the subsidy and the network upgrade cost AT&T.
Boo fucking hoo. Let me cry for them. They still don't have to rape their customers with the SMS. I'm fine with the 3G data capability costing a little more money, but it should include SMS.
And remember...it's not really half the price for some people. A good majority of non-iPhone AT&T customers are going to have to pay $399/$499.
If your current plan gives you data for less money and you are stuck with a early termination fee then it sounds like you should stay with VZW.
This is the entire point. It's not just about the plan and AT&T knows it. It's about the phone. Do I need an iPhone? No. Do I want one? Yes. And if I want one, I'm locked into AT&T and their costly plans with less features. It's not illegal, but that doesn't make it something to be happy about.
Suing AT&T wouldn't work, because they've done nothing illegal. However, Apple is going to get sued, because the phone does not cost $199/$299 with a 2 year contract for all customers. It's deceptive. If you're not eligible for an upgrade, you pay twice as much. Just watch.
Apple has nothing to do with and cannot be sued for AT&T upgrade policy. You have agreed to the policy if you signed the contract.
Suing AT&T wouldn't work, because they've done nothing illegal. However, Apple is going to get sued, because the phone does not cost $199/$299 with a 2 year contract for all customers. It's deceptive. If you're not eligible for an upgrade, you pay twice as much. Just watch.
The Apple material I've seen and heard is pretty clear that price applies to new contracts. I think this specific exclusion has already been addressed once or twice in this thread.
- For current customers who are "upgrade eligible" then their rate plan is also deemed a "qualifying" plan and DOES NOT change when purchasing the iPhone 3G.
This is a huge benefit, since the recently-released iPhone plans for new customers are so much higher.
Other interesting information learned during corporate store visit:
1.) Existing pamily plan lines who wish to get iPhone:
In my current family plan, my wife's phone line is the "primary" number and my line is the additional $9.99/month line. When I buy the iPhone next week, I still have to sign the 2-year committment to have my service with AT&T, but my line is still considered the "additional" line. NO changes are made to your existing voice rate plan. The only extra thing you have to pay is the $30 data plan per month.
2.) Availability of accessories
The sales rep informed me that they should be getting 3G accessories by Monday of next week, so you can buy accessories ahead of time or compare them to other ones online.
3.) iPhone Inventory
Corporate stores expect to have plenty of 3G iPhones in stock. Even if they run out, AT&T has been good about re-stocking them very fast (next 1 - 2 days).
I would advise any existing AT&T customer to go to their nearest store IN PERSON and talk with a sales rep.
I went to the Apple retail store this past weekend and they are totally CLUELESS of what's going on.
Of course, you won't see this anywhere in AT&T's literature because they don't want you to know about this. That's why I went into a corporate store in person yesterday.
The Apple material I've seen and heard is pretty clear that price applies to new contracts. I think this specific exclusion has already been addressed once or twice in this thread.
it's not worth it... he doesn't seem to want to actually listen to reason. I tried to point out why all his arguments were absurd, and he brushed over my post and threw up his incorrect facts all over the place again at someone else.
Apple has nothing to do with and cannot be sued for AT&T upgrade policy. You have agreed to the policy if you signed the contract.
Yes, they do. They are partners. They also clearly advertise the phone as costing X/Y with a 2 year contract. They do say "new" 2 year contract, but that doesn't cover it. A current AT&T customer is required to sign up for an additional two years to get the non-iPhone upgrade price of $399/$499. It's deceptive and I predict they will need to change their advertising. It would be fine to say "iPhone starts at $199* and then indicate that price is only for new AT&T customers and current customers eligible for an upgrade.
The Apple material I've seen and heard is pretty clear that price applies to new contracts. I think this specific exclusion has already been addressed once or twice in this thread.
Again, a person who is not eligible is told they must sign up for a new contract to get the $399/$499 price. It's not clear.
it's not worth it... he doesn't seem to want to actually listen to reason. I tried to point out why all his arguments were absurd, and he brushed over my post and threw up his incorrect facts all over the place again at someone else.
Secondly, please show me what "incorrect facts" I posted. Really, I can't wait. If you can't address what I posted, then please go away. We don't have time for people like you.