If you were referring to me, I am not quite sure at what point I said that I felt like I was falsified or even claimed that the screen of the same size that I had was even comparable or that either screen was either superior or inferior or even had the same features as each other, let alone the technology behind it. I was just simply asking and trying to find out the differences in the technology and whether it was worth the really big price differences to most average displays and especially if it is for the most average consumers or the non-professionals?
I would ask that you refer to my posts then. For "average consumers", IPS displays are not worth it, IMO. As for Apple's, the price jump between it and a high costing 24" CCFL LCD is nearly 4-5 Benjamins. Given the Cinema Display's [lack of] specs and ports, you might be tempted to look elsewhere.
Don't put words into my mouth. I *don't* want any of those things. I want a monitor with nothing else but a few ports. Most people don't use the iSight and hardly anyone would enjoy the sound coming out of built-in speakers.
No one is putting words in your mouth or rewording what you've written. I just don't see why you have an issue with this display, but not with any of Apple's notebooks or iMacs since they have cameras, speakers and mics built in them. If you don't like products that are all inclusive then you have many, many options to choose from many, many vendors. If you want a better speaker system you can get that too, if you want a display without a camera you can one of those too. Apple's been combining and consolidating components since day one, so I can't see how anyone would take issue with Apple for continuing to do what they've been doing all along.
I think we might see a few more updates before this year is out...
Maybe another 'special event' that showcases both the Mac Pro & the Mac mini.
Mac Pro gets the latest/greatest Xeon CPUs, fresh video cards with DisplayPort (or Mini DisplayPort, damn Apple & their proprieties) & an obvious pairing with an all-new 30" LED Cinema Display (sporting an iSight, stereo speakers & a 3 port USB2 hub).
Mac mini steps up to a new chassis (think Brick manufacturing process) and new internals that match the new MacBooks; this diminutive powerhouse is paired with an all-new 20" LED Cinema Display (sporting an iSight, stereo speakers & a 3 port USB2 hub).
All this saves plenty of room at MacWorld for the introduction of the Mac tablet...
(other possible new Mac products; a 10" netbook, revamping the Mac mini into a headless home server, and of course the all-new AppleTV - available in either 42" or 60" models)
I think we might see a few more updates before this year is out...
Maybe another 'special event' that showcases both the Mac Pro & the Mac mini.
Mac Pro gets the latest/greatest Xeon CPUs, fresh video cards with DisplayPort (or Mini DisplayPort, damn Apple & their proprieties) & an obvious pairing with an all-new 30" LED Cinema Display (sporting an iSight, stereo speakers & a 3 port USB2 hub).
Mac mini steps up to a new chassis (think Brick manufacturing process) and new internals that match the new MacBooks; this diminutive powerhouse is paired with an all-new 20" LED Cinema Display (sporting an iSight, stereo speakers & a 3 port USB2 hub).
All this saves plenty of room at MacWorld for the introduction of the Mac tablet...
(other possible new Mac products; a 10" netbook, revamping the Mac mini into a headless home server, and of course the all-new AppleTV - available in either 42" or 60" models)
I see them releasing this LED Cinema Display in one size to test the market. The reality of what Apple does with the rest of the line-up will greatly depend upon the demand for this new 24" LED Display.
Don't put words into my mouth. I *don't* want any of those things. I want a monitor with nothing else but a few ports. Most people don't use the iSight and hardly anyone would enjoy the sound coming out of built-in speakers.
AIO is an ok concept to a certain extent. If the quality of the built-in peripherals don't match the quality of external peripherals then, I'm sorry but, they simply SHOULDN'T be in the product.
The idea of having to buying severely crippled peripherals when one already has higher quality ones is wasteful and idiotic. I have never budged on my claim that camera phones are a stupid waste. Nobody wants to see shitty quality pictures. Hell people with real cameras can't even take a clear picture of leaked Apple products...you think a camera phone is going to improve the world? Or a shitty built-in iSight in the LCD Display?
Search your feelings, solipsism, you know it to be true.
You are jumping to a lot of conclusions. No one has even used the monitor yet to find out how well it works. You've already weighed judgment.
When Apple first put FireWire, USB ports, and Airport cards into the iMac. Very few peripherals used either FireWire or USB. Hardly any internet routers that could send a wireless signal. Were they useless because of this.
You are actually saying speakers and web cam are useless? I don't understand that at all. Everyone needs speakers. While the current use of web cam can be debatable. Its more likely to be used the more people that have them.
Dude, I hardly think they're making us pay for those added features. It's the same price point as the old 23" cinema display and it's LED and an inch bigger!
Dude, the 23" Cinema display is way over-priced.
Let's do some iMac math because the 24" iMac uses the same type of LCD panel the Cinema display does.
24" iMac = $1799
20" iMac = $1499
The 20" iMac has a lower cost CPU but let's be generous and say the entire $300 is for the display.
The 20" iMac has a TN display, the type you can get from Acer or HP for under $200.
That places the retail price of a 24" display using the same panel as the iMac at $499.
Compare that with the actual price of a 23" cinema display: $899.
So Apple is charging $400 for an aluminum case and two FireWire ports.
At least it doesn't change the look. A few features that a given user won't use really doesn't bother me. Having one model that covers everybody might cost the same as offering two models that reduces the economies of scale. The camera & mic on the notebook don't bother me either, even if I'll never use it. It's that issue about economies of scale that undercut an argument that it would be cheaper to offer a model without said feature.
We don't disagree. It is an Economy of Scale solution. What it isn't is a Steven P. Jobs forward thinking game changer like he loves to do just so it's more exciting and not what it truly is--a wise approach to consolidating manufacturering costs.
What I would like to see is that they begin investing some of that $20 Billion into OLED panel technologies and options for a Matte Glass finish that is very viable, when one applies state of the art manufacturing.
All glass are composites with elastic polymers intermixed and they should be able to design molds that provide a matte finish relief as an option.
What you're talking about is an ultra-niche market composed of about 8 people that would want to use their MacBooks with a display with a 2nd iSight and speakers because they absolutely want to use the screen and have the MacBook lid shut (which also means you'll be buying a keyboard and a mouse.)
Then I guess the market consists of me plus 7 others. I'd use it with an integrated IBM TrackPoint keyboard, which is much more convenient than a keyboard and mouse configuration... and which I already own.
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It's a waste of resources, money, and does [not] appeal to anyone (especially not since the world is heading for a recession or possibly a depression). Not even you.
Nobody in their right mind would or should buy this product.
Thanks for the compliment!
Quote:
This product is DOA. You can't use it with the Mac mini or Mac Pro yet,
Only because the new display hasn't arrived yet!
Quote:
Most people buy a notebook computer because they aren't or don't want to be tied down to a desk. Ultra-niche. Ultra-dumb.
Sometimes--like most days for a lot of people--you just have to work at a desk. Then what are you going to do when it's time to travel? Are going to do something SUPREMELY dumb like sync files and install missing apps at the last minute? Who has time for that??
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Apple needs to take the basic design of this display, remove all the retarded decisions such as built-in iSight and speakers, add options for a matte finish and make the hub more functional and market it to Mac mini, Mac Pro and PC users.
The iSight, speakers and mic probably add $50 to the b.o.m. and $100 to the s.r.p. Not prohibitive even if you never need them. For my purposes, I'd use them all a lot... especially the speakers.
At any rate, the price has not changed. And of course Apple will come out with an adapter for use with current Macs. Anyone who believes otherwise is just trying to stir the pot.
Its not "pot stirring" to say you can't run this monitor off a DVI/VGA output. Its facts based on the technical specs of DisplayPort (which another poster above gave in detail) and the very simple fact that if the monitor could work with older machines, why wouldn't Apple at least sell an adapter for $29 like they do for laptops?
I don't understand. Why can't they make a display that will work with both a laptop and a Desktop. Sure it might be neat to charge your laptop with your monitor, but what is wrong with plugging it in the wall again?
Everyone needs speakers. While the current use of web cam can be debatable. Its more likely to be used the more people that have them.
Who?
People who work in an office? Speaker use is usually forbidden, and rightly so. At work, what I need is not a speaker, it's a headset. And given the price tag of that monitor and its techology, the office is a prime target.
People who work at home and listen to music? Well, if I want to listen to music, I actually want to listen to music, not some distorbed and crushed noise. So, my computer is plugged to my home theater system and it's 5.0 speakers, and this has nothing to do with the pityful noise that comes out of built-in speakers. People who can't afford hifi just buy cheap external speakers - even $30 models are better than built-ins...
Gamers? Gamers don't do Mac anyway. And if they did, they would not buy a slowish IPS monitor anyway.
Really, I don't see who would have an actual use for that in the real world...
You are jumping to a lot of conclusions. No one has even used the monitor yet to find out how well it works. You've already weighed judgment.
When Apple first put FireWire, USB ports, and Airport cards into the iMac. Very few peripherals used either FireWire or USB. Hardly any internet routers that could send a wireless signal. Were they useless because of this.
You are actually saying speakers and web cam are useless? I don't understand that at all. Everyone needs speakers. While the current use of web cam can be debatable. Its more likely to be used the more people that have them.
Well everyone needs a keyboard and mouse...should those things be integrated into the display also?
I don't understand. Why can't they make a display that will work with both a laptop and a Desktop. Sure it might be neat to charge your laptop with your monitor, but what is wrong with plugging it in the wall again?
Apple is making huge design mistakes...and it doesn't care. When this display shows itself as unpopular as the Cube or the AppleTV, Apple will be scratching its head wondering where it went wrong and just scrap their entire display plans based on info gathered from a failed design.
A retarded 6 year-old can see the flaws with this product.
edit: the retarded 6 year-old is *not* me...I'm 7.
Apple is making huge design mistakes...and it doesn't care. When this display shows itself as unpopular as the Cube or the AppleTV, Apple will be scratching its head wondering where it went wrong and just scrap their entire display plans based on info gathered from a failed design.
A retarded 6 year-old can see the flaws with this product.
edit: the retarded 6 year-old is *not* me...I'm 7.
I cannot see many people exhibiting outrage over integrated camera and speakers the way you are.
I guess this and another post are a direct reference to my own. I know full well that Apple's Cinema Display is an IPS rather than some TN panel; you don't need to pontificate the differences. Maybe the display has a leg up because it is LED and not CCFL, but lets face it the majority of casual users (your "folks") wouldn't recognize the difference, especially between the newest generation of CCFLs and the early generation of panel-quality LEDs.
I, for one, am glad that Apple chose to ignore the mass consumer market and offer high quality panel for more professional market. Of course, the actual performance remains to be seen and scrutinized, such as whether it uses S-IPS vs. S-PVA and how much of the Adobe RGB colors pace it can display. I am a bit ticked off by the glossy screen, but I guess that is a trend I cannot escape (ugh).
Comments
If you were referring to me, I am not quite sure at what point I said that I felt like I was falsified or even claimed that the screen of the same size that I had was even comparable or that either screen was either superior or inferior or even had the same features as each other, let alone the technology behind it. I was just simply asking and trying to find out the differences in the technology and whether it was worth the really big price differences to most average displays and especially if it is for the most average consumers or the non-professionals?
I would ask that you refer to my posts then. For "average consumers", IPS displays are not worth it, IMO. As for Apple's, the price jump between it and a high costing 24" CCFL LCD is nearly 4-5 Benjamins. Given the Cinema Display's [lack of] specs and ports, you might be tempted to look elsewhere.
Don't put words into my mouth. I *don't* want any of those things. I want a monitor with nothing else but a few ports. Most people don't use the iSight and hardly anyone would enjoy the sound coming out of built-in speakers.
No one is putting words in your mouth or rewording what you've written. I just don't see why you have an issue with this display, but not with any of Apple's notebooks or iMacs since they have cameras, speakers and mics built in them. If you don't like products that are all inclusive then you have many, many options to choose from many, many vendors. If you want a better speaker system you can get that too, if you want a display without a camera you can one of those too. Apple's been combining and consolidating components since day one, so I can't see how anyone would take issue with Apple for continuing to do what they've been doing all along.
Maybe another 'special event' that showcases both the Mac Pro & the Mac mini.
Mac Pro gets the latest/greatest Xeon CPUs, fresh video cards with DisplayPort (or Mini DisplayPort, damn Apple & their proprieties) & an obvious pairing with an all-new 30" LED Cinema Display (sporting an iSight, stereo speakers & a 3 port USB2 hub).
Mac mini steps up to a new chassis (think Brick manufacturing process) and new internals that match the new MacBooks; this diminutive powerhouse is paired with an all-new 20" LED Cinema Display (sporting an iSight, stereo speakers & a 3 port USB2 hub).
All this saves plenty of room at MacWorld for the introduction of the Mac tablet...
(other possible new Mac products; a 10" netbook, revamping the Mac mini into a headless home server, and of course the all-new AppleTV - available in either 42" or 60" models)
I'll add it my collection.
I think we might see a few more updates before this year is out...
Maybe another 'special event' that showcases both the Mac Pro & the Mac mini.
Mac Pro gets the latest/greatest Xeon CPUs, fresh video cards with DisplayPort (or Mini DisplayPort, damn Apple & their proprieties) & an obvious pairing with an all-new 30" LED Cinema Display (sporting an iSight, stereo speakers & a 3 port USB2 hub).
Mac mini steps up to a new chassis (think Brick manufacturing process) and new internals that match the new MacBooks; this diminutive powerhouse is paired with an all-new 20" LED Cinema Display (sporting an iSight, stereo speakers & a 3 port USB2 hub).
All this saves plenty of room at MacWorld for the introduction of the Mac tablet...
(other possible new Mac products; a 10" netbook, revamping the Mac mini into a headless home server, and of course the all-new AppleTV - available in either 42" or 60" models)
I see them releasing this LED Cinema Display in one size to test the market. The reality of what Apple does with the rest of the line-up will greatly depend upon the demand for this new 24" LED Display.
Don't put words into my mouth. I *don't* want any of those things. I want a monitor with nothing else but a few ports. Most people don't use the iSight and hardly anyone would enjoy the sound coming out of built-in speakers.
AIO is an ok concept to a certain extent. If the quality of the built-in peripherals don't match the quality of external peripherals then, I'm sorry but, they simply SHOULDN'T be in the product.
The idea of having to buying severely crippled peripherals when one already has higher quality ones is wasteful and idiotic. I have never budged on my claim that camera phones are a stupid waste. Nobody wants to see shitty quality pictures. Hell people with real cameras can't even take a clear picture of leaked Apple products...you think a camera phone is going to improve the world? Or a shitty built-in iSight in the LCD Display?
Search your feelings, solipsism, you know it to be true.
You are jumping to a lot of conclusions. No one has even used the monitor yet to find out how well it works. You've already weighed judgment.
When Apple first put FireWire, USB ports, and Airport cards into the iMac. Very few peripherals used either FireWire or USB. Hardly any internet routers that could send a wireless signal. Were they useless because of this.
You are actually saying speakers and web cam are useless? I don't understand that at all. Everyone needs speakers. While the current use of web cam can be debatable. Its more likely to be used the more people that have them.
Dude, I hardly think they're making us pay for those added features. It's the same price point as the old 23" cinema display and it's LED and an inch bigger!
Dude, the 23" Cinema display is way over-priced.
Let's do some iMac math because the 24" iMac uses the same type of LCD panel the Cinema display does.
24" iMac = $1799
20" iMac = $1499
The 20" iMac has a lower cost CPU but let's be generous and say the entire $300 is for the display.
The 20" iMac has a TN display, the type you can get from Acer or HP for under $200.
That places the retail price of a 24" display using the same panel as the iMac at $499.
Compare that with the actual price of a 23" cinema display: $899.
So Apple is charging $400 for an aluminum case and two FireWire ports.
Still think the new display is a good deal?
True, but either is still better than TN.
At least it doesn't change the look. A few features that a given user won't use really doesn't bother me. Having one model that covers everybody might cost the same as offering two models that reduces the economies of scale. The camera & mic on the notebook don't bother me either, even if I'll never use it. It's that issue about economies of scale that undercut an argument that it would be cheaper to offer a model without said feature.
We don't disagree. It is an Economy of Scale solution. What it isn't is a Steven P. Jobs forward thinking game changer like he loves to do just so it's more exciting and not what it truly is--a wise approach to consolidating manufacturering costs.
What I would like to see is that they begin investing some of that $20 Billion into OLED panel technologies and options for a Matte Glass finish that is very viable, when one applies state of the art manufacturing.
All glass are composites with elastic polymers intermixed and they should be able to design molds that provide a matte finish relief as an option.
What you're talking about is an ultra-niche market composed of about 8 people that would want to use their MacBooks with a display with a 2nd iSight and speakers because they absolutely want to use the screen and have the MacBook lid shut (which also means you'll be buying a keyboard and a mouse.)
Then I guess the market consists of me plus 7 others. I'd use it with an integrated IBM TrackPoint keyboard, which is much more convenient than a keyboard and mouse configuration... and which I already own.
It's a waste of resources, money, and does [not] appeal to anyone (especially not since the world is heading for a recession or possibly a depression). Not even you.
Nobody in their right mind would or should buy this product.
Thanks for the compliment!
This product is DOA. You can't use it with the Mac mini or Mac Pro yet,
Only because the new display hasn't arrived yet!
Most people buy a notebook computer because they aren't or don't want to be tied down to a desk. Ultra-niche. Ultra-dumb.
Sometimes--like most days for a lot of people--you just have to work at a desk. Then what are you going to do when it's time to travel? Are going to do something SUPREMELY dumb like sync files and install missing apps at the last minute? Who has time for that??
Apple needs to take the basic design of this display, remove all the retarded decisions such as built-in iSight and speakers, add options for a matte finish and make the hub more functional and market it to Mac mini, Mac Pro and PC users.
The iSight, speakers and mic probably add $50 to the b.o.m. and $100 to the s.r.p. Not prohibitive even if you never need them. For my purposes, I'd use them all a lot... especially the speakers.
At any rate, the price has not changed. And of course Apple will come out with an adapter for use with current Macs. Anyone who believes otherwise is just trying to stir the pot.
Its not "pot stirring" to say you can't run this monitor off a DVI/VGA output. Its facts based on the technical specs of DisplayPort (which another poster above gave in detail) and the very simple fact that if the monitor could work with older machines, why wouldn't Apple at least sell an adapter for $29 like they do for laptops?
Everyone needs speakers. While the current use of web cam can be debatable. Its more likely to be used the more people that have them.
Who?
People who work in an office? Speaker use is usually forbidden, and rightly so. At work, what I need is not a speaker, it's a headset. And given the price tag of that monitor and its techology, the office is a prime target.
People who work at home and listen to music? Well, if I want to listen to music, I actually want to listen to music, not some distorbed and crushed noise. So, my computer is plugged to my home theater system and it's 5.0 speakers, and this has nothing to do with the pityful noise that comes out of built-in speakers. People who can't afford hifi just buy cheap external speakers - even $30 models are better than built-ins...
Gamers? Gamers don't do Mac anyway. And if they did, they would not buy a slowish IPS monitor anyway.
Really, I don't see who would have an actual use for that in the real world...
You are jumping to a lot of conclusions. No one has even used the monitor yet to find out how well it works. You've already weighed judgment.
When Apple first put FireWire, USB ports, and Airport cards into the iMac. Very few peripherals used either FireWire or USB. Hardly any internet routers that could send a wireless signal. Were they useless because of this.
You are actually saying speakers and web cam are useless? I don't understand that at all. Everyone needs speakers. While the current use of web cam can be debatable. Its more likely to be used the more people that have them.
Well everyone needs a keyboard and mouse...should those things be integrated into the display also?
I don't understand. Why can't they make a display that will work with both a laptop and a Desktop. Sure it might be neat to charge your laptop with your monitor, but what is wrong with plugging it in the wall again?
Apple is making huge design mistakes...and it doesn't care. When this display shows itself as unpopular as the Cube or the AppleTV, Apple will be scratching its head wondering where it went wrong and just scrap their entire display plans based on info gathered from a failed design.
A retarded 6 year-old can see the flaws with this product.
edit: the retarded 6 year-old is *not* me...I'm 7.
Well everyone needs a keyboard and mouse...should those things be integrated into the display also?
That's ridiculous.
The isight and speakers are integrated without taking away from the usefulness of the monitor. Only adding to its usefulness.
Well everyone needs a keyboard and mouse...should those things be integrated into the display also?
1) They did that with the first Apple PC, and every laptop works that way.
2) Are you really going to compare a tactile input device for your hands to 'head-level' input and output devices?
Apple is making huge design mistakes...and it doesn't care. When this display shows itself as unpopular as the Cube or the AppleTV, Apple will be scratching its head wondering where it went wrong and just scrap their entire display plans based on info gathered from a failed design.
A retarded 6 year-old can see the flaws with this product.
edit: the retarded 6 year-old is *not* me...I'm 7.
I cannot see many people exhibiting outrage over integrated camera and speakers the way you are.
Not even the 6 year old.
I guess this and another post are a direct reference to my own. I know full well that Apple's Cinema Display is an IPS rather than some TN panel; you don't need to pontificate the differences. Maybe the display has a leg up because it is LED and not CCFL, but lets face it the majority of casual users (your "folks") wouldn't recognize the difference, especially between the newest generation of CCFLs and the early generation of panel-quality LEDs.
I, for one, am glad that Apple chose to ignore the mass consumer market and offer high quality panel for more professional market. Of course, the actual performance remains to be seen and scrutinized, such as whether it uses S-IPS vs. S-PVA and how much of the Adobe RGB colors pace it can display. I am a bit ticked off by the glossy screen, but I guess that is a trend I cannot escape (ugh).
Not even the 6 year old.
I dare him to find a 6 year old that wouldn't get a kick out of PhotoBooth.