My point was that if Apple offered a cheap laptop, i.e., with less power, slower graphic card, no comparable iLife suite, cheaper chassis, standard trackpad, no backlit keyboard, smaller drive, OS X (Cheetah), no Boot Camp, Windows emulation or Time Machine, would it be OK as long as it had more connectivity and a Blu-Ray player.
Don't forget to make it considerable because 9.5mm BD aren't offered yet, and then it would have to be the even thicker tray-loading drive or the price will higher, which will cause even more comparative complaining. Of course, then there are all the detractors from the heavy, thick, non-industry leading, un-Mac-like portables that Apple is now producing.
If Apple has to get a group of people being pissed off at them, It's surely better to pick the very small group than the very large group that make up the bulk of their business.
PS: To back up your point, I'm sure that throughout the entire history of Apple I'm pretty sure I can find a relatively older machine that had more ports than the new Mac at the time.
I personally wouldn't want to have to use Logic on anything less than a top - the-line Macbook Pro. Certainly not on a Macbook no matter how many FireWire ports were on it.
yes i understand that a 'top of the line' is better than a lower model
and we both know Logic Studio will work better on a MBP
but from experience it works fine on my 2006 Macbook
no crashes, able to record 8+ tracks for drum takes
plus it is nice, small & light enough to stick in the bag with all the other stuff i have to take to a gig
the only thing is that it's quite clearly straining the processors
(which i guess is your point and one that i agree with)
so the fans start pretty early and don't really stop
so an upgrade of the MB to help the heat dissipation problems (which everyone experiences)
and a power / RAM bump would have put the machine at a perfect size / capability ratio
for on the go audio purposes
i guess i'll just have to wait until some time in 2009
Exactly my situation, too. Promised my friend to sell her my MPB and now have to tell her I can't because the new machines are a glossy non-connective block of metal.
One more thing: This thread painfully shows that majority rule can be the worst kind of dictatorship. Why do you USB freaks even waste your time here to justify Apple's decisions? I mean you're happy with the new machines so please shut up an go back to your USB-friendly hobbies and don't try to majority-rule us. We have to complain because we lost something - and you complain about us, and THAT's arrogant, ignorant and not acceptable. Sorry.
But aren't you glad that you might have help save Apple as you warned, "I have said it many times before and it's happening now: Apple's ignoring the gaming industry will come back to bite it on the ass."
By the way, you haven't lost anything. You can in fact still buy a Macbook with FireWire and at $100 less than before. And "non-connective" would be an outright lie.
By the way, you haven't lost anything. You can in fact still buy a Macbook with FireWire and at $100 less than before. And "non-connective" would be an outright lie.
yes i understand that a 'top of the line' is better than a lower model
and we both know Logic Studio will work better on a MBP
but from experience it works fine on my 2006 Macbook
no crashes, able to record 8+ tracks for drum takes
plus it is nice, small & light enough to stick in the bag with all the other stuff i have to take to a gig
the only thing is that it's quite clearly straining the processors
(which i guess is your point and one that i agree with)
so the fans start pretty early and don't really stop
so an upgrade of the MB to help the heat dissipation problems (which everyone experiences)
and a power / RAM bump would have put the machine at a perfect size / capability ratio
for on the go audio purposes
i guess i'll just have to wait until some time in 2009
I was reading up on a professional audio site this morning that anything less that a Macbook Pro was not recommended for Logic Pro. Just too much draw. Unfortunately I can't find the reference.
My point was that if Apple offered a cheap laptop, i.e., with less power, slower graphic card, no comparable iLife suite, cheaper chassis, standard trackpad, no backlit keyboard, smaller drive, OS X (Cheetah), no Boot Camp, Windows emulation or Time Machine, would it be OK as long as it had more connectivity and a Blu-Ray player.
I have lots of precious antiques to sell. Aluminium and plastic cases with an apple logo that lights up. Nearly new. Some dont function properly but have some patina on them which makes them more valuable. You can use them as a bed side lamp or tray for your breakfast.
I dearly wish all my clients were more like some of you. Unfortunately they are quite a bit more demanding when they have to pay for something. Glad to see that gullible people aren?t extinct may they thrive and knock on my door (especially in the midst of this recession). I really need you. Love and peace. Please give me your addresses.
I would gladly buy the MBP and enjoy the larger HD, larger screen, higher performance. It's about 1.5" wider and less than 1" taller and that buys you over 2" diag. larger screen. I would think there would be some value in that.
And for those that can't carry around extra weight, you get all this in a model that weighs 1 pound more. I think we can all man up.
It's a little more $ but if you need that FW port, that's the ticket! Over the productive years this computer will be in service, the extra $ is nothing if you're a pro.
I would gladly buy the MBP and enjoy the larger HD, larger screen, higher performance. It's about 1.5" wider and less than 1" taller and that buys you over 2" diag. larger screen. I would think there would be some value in that.
And for those that can't carry around extra weight, you get all this in a model that weighs 1 pound more. I think we can all man up.
It's a little more $ but if you need that FW port, that's the ticket! Over the productive years this computer will be in service, the extra $ is nothing if you're a pro.
And if you like having two FW ports, as I do, you can go to MacConnection's site, as I did, and get one of the last revision 2.5GHz Macbook Pros(MB134LL/A) for $1649.95, after $150 rebate, which is only about $350 more than the new MB. As in a previous post, you can go to Apples website and voice your complaints. If they don't listen to the consumers then let it hit them in the wallet as in LOST SALES.
When Apple dropped the modem port from the iMac (and subsequent computers) they provided anApple-branded solutions for those who still needed a modem port.
When Apple dropped the Ethernet port from the MacBook Air they provided an Apple-branded solution for those who still needed a Ethernet on the Macbook Air.
When Apple dropped the FireWire port from the MacBook (and probably subsequent future computers) they did NOTHING for its customers. Nothing, except drop the port.
.
When Apple dropped ADB port from Mac for USB, did Apple provide an Apple branded solution for those who still needed ADB?
When Apple dropped SCSI from Mac for Firewire, did Apple provide an Apple branded solution for those who still needed SCSI?
When Apple dropped serial from Mac for USB, did Apple provide an Apple branded solution?
When Apple dropped ADB port from Mac for USB, did Apple provide an Apple branded solution for those who still needed ADB?
When Apple dropped SCSI from Mac for Firewire, did Apple provide an Apple branded solution for those who still needed SCSI?
When Apple dropped serial from Mac for USB, did Apple provide an Apple branded solution?
Those were all upgrades. This dropping a feature of aesthetic design reasons. This is more akin to Apple dropping SCSI and requiring users to rely on the serial port.
Those were all upgrades. This dropping a feature of aesthetic design reasons. This is more akin to Apple dropping SCSI and requiring users to rely on the serial port.
— Classic Mac-to-iMac :: Dropping Floppy drives for a CD-ROM reader only for the 2.5 years it took to offer an internal CD-ROM writable./
— PB-to MBP :: Dropping PCMCIA for EC/34 when there were no PCMCIA-to-EC/34 adapter and no cards that matched the same basic functionality for about a year after the upgrade to the MBP.
— PB-to MBP :ropping the DL-DVD burner with a faster speed drive to a slower, SL-DVD burner for nearly a year until a DL-DVD burner was made available.
Every single one of those things upset a lot of people in the exact same way as this petty FW400 issue. I can see the annoyance and reason for the kerfuffle, but the excessive whining makes no sense. You have a more expensive option and you have a cheaper option that are both very capable machines. Not to mention that you don't have to change your current Mac HW because right away. it'll still work the same as it did prior to Tuesday. THERE IS NO FW400 KILL SWITCH!
Beyond that, if you didn't see the dead-end port interface of FW400 not being upgradable like FW800 and USB's standards; as well as Apple's systematic removal of its usage from its own paeripihals from using FW400. From not including the cables with the iPods, to not allowing them to sync, to not allowing them to charge the device at all with new iPods.
1) If FireWire is "obsolete" today, why wasn't it obsolete two or more years ago when Apple was still promoting its virtues? It seems nothing really has changed in that time frame that would now suddenly cause FireWire to be obsolete.
FW400 was borderline 2 years ago.
FW800 is borderline today.
2 years is a long time. What made FW400 obsolete today? eSATA is more common (needs to be in the MBP really), USB2 video cams are more common, NAS are more common in homes and 802.11N.
With up to a TB available via 802.11N on Time Capsule you don't need to be tethered via cable except when you need a lot of speed. In which case gigE is faster then FW400.
The biggest loss for FW400 for MOST folks is for connecting to FW based video cams.
Quote:
2) If FireWire really is obsolete, why did Apple expend the effort to intentionally build it into the new-from-the-ground-up MacBook Pro, especially considering there is no native support on the nVidia chipset?
FW800 is borderline. The MBP lost its FW400 port.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave K.
Well said. To add to your comments.
If FireWire is obsolete technology than why does every single external hard drive sold in Apple retail stores still have this obsolete port on them (just checked the Buffalo, NY store)? Its not a obsolete technology by any stretch...
Sure is obsolete.
1) Apple's crappy USB drivers are somewhat less crappy than before. Seagate explains this is why their crappy FW400 implementation works no faster than their USB2 implementation.
Just because you have FW400 on a drive no longer means it works any faster than on USB2.
2) External drives today should be eSATA for performance and Apple is behind by using FW. Apple's only saving grace is the expresscard on the MBP.
The only thing that FW400 ISN'T obsolete for is (older) video and pro-audio.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
Is that the compromise that needed to be made though?
I would say what's more important FW800 or Gigabit ethernet? The answer IMO is FW800. Ethernet can be supported via a USB adaptor. By contrast you can't get the benefit of FW800 from an adaptor.
GigE over USB is pointless.
I'd MUCH rather have GigE than FW800 if I could only have one. 1394c (Firewire S800T aka FW on RJ45) is only theoretical at this point and IP over FW is essentially dead since MS killed support on Vista. Likewise 1394b (FW800) is not supported in Vista despite promises to the contrary.
So FW800 is essentially dead as well. I'd rather buy a new camera than give up the ability to connect to a network at wire speeds.
I waited to see what the new MacBooks were like before deciding on a new laptop. I'm going to wait until this time next year to buy one of the new "bricks."
Not because of the lack of Firewire, but because of the lack of USB3, which we know darn well is coming, the imminent arrival of Intel's Nehalem architecture, which is supposed to leave their current chips in the dust, and the imminent arrival of Snow Leopard, which I don't want to have to turn right around and buy retail.
The absence of Firewire is unfortunate, but inevitable. I was lucky enough to time my hardware transitions so I went from being mildly inconvenienced by not having it, to having it and seldom using it, to hardly ever using it. If the luck of the draw didn't treat some of you as well, I feel your pain, but Apple tried to push Firewire, it didn't take, it's time to admit it and move on. (I loved my Betamax VCR, too.)
I absolutely will buy one of the new MacBooks when they're Nehalem, with Snow Leopard and USB3, though. Reading a lot of complaining on all these forums about Apple laptops not being as dead solid reliable as they used to be, most of the problems sound like they can be attributed to broken connections and circuit-board traces due to case flex, as all the features have gotten smaller and more delicate. (And remember that this lead-free solder they have to use now is no damn good.)
Apple has been getting all these failed machines back and undoubtedly analyzing the Hell out of them, trying to figure out why they've been failing. This much more rigid case is their answer. It sounds to me as if it will work, but a year from now we'll know better. Meanwhile, I'm buying the MacBook that was absolutely current just a week ago, except to get a Superdrive then, you had to pay $1300. Now it's $1000. Sold! And it still has a Firewire port. A year from now, when I get my new MacBook, I can still use it for my Firewire-related needs (if any.)
I don't watch TV. Does anyone know if Apple's "Get a Mac" series included a 2008 episode that touted the powers of Firewire for diagnostic/recovery purposes, or that implicitly touted it for capturing video/audio streams? If such episodes are found, they'd make it awkward for those who say that Apple was signaling its impending demise.
It's likely that Firewire was mentioned in an episode or two that preceded 2008, because it's so useful--or was, anyway. So perhaps subsequent episodes didn't harp on it again.
I'd MUCH rather have GigE than FW800 if I could only have one.
I'd rather buy a new camera than give up the ability to connect to a network at wire speeds.
But network speeds are much slower anyway. Assuming you do have network devices that support the full Gigabit bandwidth and the target machine does too (this isn't the case for a lot of people), your maximum transfer rate is the read/write speed of your internal drive. A laptop 5400 gets about 20MB/s. A 7200 gets around 30MB/s.
Full Gig-E speed is 125MB/s so the majority of people aren't using bandwidth anywhere near the capacity. A USB2 port gives you 60MB/s, which is more than enough. The adaptors say that you get full Gig-E speeds. They will mean that you won't actually notice the difference in pretty much every circumstance.
FW on the other hand has benefits due to the architecture that can't be replicated with an adaptor.
On the principle of negatively affecting the least amount of users and given that laptop users are more likely to use wifi and given that there are adaptors for ethernet, I still think the best choice would have been to use firewire instead.
wow, we've been getting cross about this now for almost a week - and, in my opinion, understandably but...
one answer to all our problems is to buy a MBP but it's not a go-er for many of us who want a cheaper, small form laptop that's actually an upgrade from the plastimac of last year. So how about looking at some other solutions?
I work in broadcast but mostly editing and compiling reports for the web. I'm not about to spend a lot of money on a new expensive camera - I've got a £1200 Sony A1 (firewire only for video). Most USB cameras are hard drive based and aren't specced up for anything very serious (the Sony A1, for instance, has XLR mic fittings which I need to use) whereas standard cameras have 3.5mm jacks which die a death pretty quickly but I got to thinking that there must be another solution.
So I've been looking at ways to get back functionality despite lack of firewire support on the new macbook. I got to thinking about shooting DV on one (expensive camera) and then ingesting it using a different camera:
I've got an old, cheap (£120) Sony Dv camera (HC24E) which supports streaming/capture over USB - but with two caveats:
1. Low res WMV files are created.
2. yup, you guessed it... only over Windows OS.
So, I've installed XP with Bootcamp and am now ingesting via that, saving off the (admittedly low res) wmv files and then pulling them back into OS X and, eventually, can start using them again in FCP.
It is an incredibly long winded solution thanks to lack of support on the Sony/OS X front for the USB side of the camera but at least it's cheap and it means I don't have to carry another PC based laptop and then start shuttling files between them both. Perhaps I could get it working via parallels or Crossover (but I think I'd drop hundreds of frames)? If we could find a cheap/free DV stream ingest that would work with USB it could make it easier? I haven't found one that doesn't require FW yet but I'm looking...
As an aside - the guys in the Apple Stores don't seem particularly happy either - I was in the Liverpool branch at the weekend and the team said that while sales were going well they were getting loads of complaints about FW (and, yup, they're still selling FW only devices in store). As one of the guys said "nice one Steve, thanks for dropping that on us".
Has anyone else got any solutions? - obviously we seem to be realising that a £5 cable from eBay is not going to be the answer and the promised multi-platform interfaces of the past have so far failed to come to market.
Sorry to the audio guys - you seem to be having a very tough time of it - but can't we start finding solutions to Apple's mistakes?
Comments
My point was that if Apple offered a cheap laptop, i.e., with less power, slower graphic card, no comparable iLife suite, cheaper chassis, standard trackpad, no backlit keyboard, smaller drive, OS X (Cheetah), no Boot Camp, Windows emulation or Time Machine, would it be OK as long as it had more connectivity and a Blu-Ray player.
Don't forget to make it considerable because 9.5mm BD aren't offered yet, and then it would have to be the even thicker tray-loading drive or the price will higher, which will cause even more comparative complaining. Of course, then there are all the detractors from the heavy, thick, non-industry leading, un-Mac-like portables that Apple is now producing.
If Apple has to get a group of people being pissed off at them, It's surely better to pick the very small group than the very large group that make up the bulk of their business.
PS: To back up your point, I'm sure that throughout the entire history of Apple I'm pretty sure I can find a relatively older machine that had more ports than the new Mac at the time.
I personally wouldn't want to have to use Logic on anything less than a top - the-line Macbook Pro. Certainly not on a Macbook no matter how many FireWire ports were on it.
yes i understand that a 'top of the line' is better than a lower model
and we both know Logic Studio will work better on a MBP
but from experience it works fine on my 2006 Macbook
no crashes, able to record 8+ tracks for drum takes
plus it is nice, small & light enough to stick in the bag with all the other stuff i have to take to a gig
the only thing is that it's quite clearly straining the processors
(which i guess is your point and one that i agree with)
so the fans start pretty early and don't really stop
so an upgrade of the MB to help the heat dissipation problems (which everyone experiences)
and a power / RAM bump would have put the machine at a perfect size / capability ratio
for on the go audio purposes
i guess i'll just have to wait until some time in 2009
Exactly my situation, too. Promised my friend to sell her my MPB and now have to tell her I can't because the new machines are a glossy non-connective block of metal.
One more thing: This thread painfully shows that majority rule can be the worst kind of dictatorship. Why do you USB freaks even waste your time here to justify Apple's decisions? I mean you're happy with the new machines so please shut up an go back to your USB-friendly hobbies and don't try to majority-rule us. We have to complain because we lost something - and you complain about us, and THAT's arrogant, ignorant and not acceptable. Sorry.
But aren't you glad that you might have help save Apple as you warned, "I have said it many times before and it's happening now: Apple's ignoring the gaming industry will come back to bite it on the ass."
By the way, you haven't lost anything. You can in fact still buy a Macbook with FireWire and at $100 less than before. And "non-connective" would be an outright lie.
Now you are in my neck of the woods. No they don't.
Umm... Yes they do.
I just went to the Apple store in Walden Galleria today to check out the new MacBooks...
Every single external hard drive in the back of the store (near the Genius bar) supported FireWIre 400...
Some were USB 2 and FireWIre, some were USB 2/FireWIre 400/FireWire 800, and at least one was USB2/FireWire 400/FireWire 800/eSata.
By the way, you haven't lost anything. You can in fact still buy a Macbook with FireWire and at $100 less than before. And "non-connective" would be an outright lie.
$100 less, and with a SuperDrive included.
yes i understand that a 'top of the line' is better than a lower model
and we both know Logic Studio will work better on a MBP
but from experience it works fine on my 2006 Macbook
no crashes, able to record 8+ tracks for drum takes
plus it is nice, small & light enough to stick in the bag with all the other stuff i have to take to a gig
the only thing is that it's quite clearly straining the processors
(which i guess is your point and one that i agree with)
so the fans start pretty early and don't really stop
so an upgrade of the MB to help the heat dissipation problems (which everyone experiences)
and a power / RAM bump would have put the machine at a perfect size / capability ratio
for on the go audio purposes
i guess i'll just have to wait until some time in 2009
I was reading up on a professional audio site this morning that anything less that a Macbook Pro was not recommended for Logic Pro. Just too much draw. Unfortunately I can't find the reference.
However, perhaps the following link might interest you. Particularly Excerpt #4 at http://www.vicfirth.com/artists/queen.html or any of the others http://www.vicfirth.com/features_marching.html are entertaining, that fill my iPhone and iPod Touch.
Umm... Yes they do.
I just went to the Apple store in Walden Galleria today to check out the new MacBooks...
Every single external hard drive in the back of the store (near the Genius bar) supported FireWIre 400...
Some were USB 2 and FireWIre, some were USB 2/FireWIre 400/FireWire 800, and at least one was USB2/FireWire 400/FireWire 800/eSata.
Time Capsule doesn't.
$100 less, and with a SuperDrive included.
Should've had SuperDrive a while ago, though.
But yeah, the price drop on the PlastiBook while still retaining FW was the one unadulterated piece of good news from the event.
...
My point was that if Apple offered a cheap laptop, i.e., with less power, slower graphic card, no comparable iLife suite, cheaper chassis, standard trackpad, no backlit keyboard, smaller drive, OS X (Cheetah), no Boot Camp, Windows emulation or Time Machine, would it be OK as long as it had more connectivity and a Blu-Ray player.
I have lots of precious antiques to sell. Aluminium and plastic cases with an apple logo that lights up. Nearly new. Some dont function properly but have some patina on them which makes them more valuable. You can use them as a bed side lamp or tray for your breakfast.
I dearly wish all my clients were more like some of you. Unfortunately they are quite a bit more demanding when they have to pay for something. Glad to see that gullible people aren?t extinct may they thrive and knock on my door (especially in the midst of this recession). I really need you. Love and peace. Please give me your addresses.
And for those that can't carry around extra weight, you get all this in a model that weighs 1 pound more. I think we can all man up.
It's a little more $ but if you need that FW port, that's the ticket! Over the productive years this computer will be in service, the extra $ is nothing if you're a pro.
$100 less, and with a SuperDrive included.
Or at the $1299 price point, 400mhz slower, firewire NOT included.
I would gladly buy the MBP and enjoy the larger HD, larger screen, higher performance. It's about 1.5" wider and less than 1" taller and that buys you over 2" diag. larger screen. I would think there would be some value in that.
And for those that can't carry around extra weight, you get all this in a model that weighs 1 pound more. I think we can all man up.
It's a little more $ but if you need that FW port, that's the ticket! Over the productive years this computer will be in service, the extra $ is nothing if you're a pro.
And if you like having two FW ports, as I do, you can go to MacConnection's site, as I did, and get one of the last revision 2.5GHz Macbook Pros(MB134LL/A) for $1649.95, after $150 rebate, which is only about $350 more than the new MB. As in a previous post, you can go to Apples website and voice your complaints. If they don't listen to the consumers then let it hit them in the wallet as in LOST SALES.
When Apple dropped the modem port from the iMac (and subsequent computers) they provided anApple-branded solutions for those who still needed a modem port.
When Apple dropped the Ethernet port from the MacBook Air they provided an Apple-branded solution for those who still needed a Ethernet on the Macbook Air.
When Apple dropped the FireWire port from the MacBook (and probably subsequent future computers) they did NOTHING for its customers. Nothing, except drop the port.
.
When Apple dropped ADB port from Mac for USB, did Apple provide an Apple branded solution for those who still needed ADB?
When Apple dropped SCSI from Mac for Firewire, did Apple provide an Apple branded solution for those who still needed SCSI?
When Apple dropped serial from Mac for USB, did Apple provide an Apple branded solution?
When Apple dropped ADB port from Mac for USB, did Apple provide an Apple branded solution for those who still needed ADB?
When Apple dropped SCSI from Mac for Firewire, did Apple provide an Apple branded solution for those who still needed SCSI?
When Apple dropped serial from Mac for USB, did Apple provide an Apple branded solution?
Those were all upgrades. This dropping a feature of aesthetic design reasons. This is more akin to Apple dropping SCSI and requiring users to rely on the serial port.
Those were all upgrades. This dropping a feature of aesthetic design reasons. This is more akin to Apple dropping SCSI and requiring users to rely on the serial port.
— Classic Mac-to-iMac :: Dropping Floppy drives for a CD-ROM reader only for the 2.5 years it took to offer an internal CD-ROM writable./
— PB-to MBP :: Dropping PCMCIA for EC/34 when there were no PCMCIA-to-EC/34 adapter and no cards that matched the same basic functionality for about a year after the upgrade to the MBP.
— PB-to MBP :
Every single one of those things upset a lot of people in the exact same way as this petty FW400 issue. I can see the annoyance and reason for the kerfuffle, but the excessive whining makes no sense. You have a more expensive option and you have a cheaper option that are both very capable machines. Not to mention that you don't have to change your current Mac HW because right away. it'll still work the same as it did prior to Tuesday. THERE IS NO FW400 KILL SWITCH!
Beyond that, if you didn't see the dead-end port interface of FW400 not being upgradable like FW800 and USB's standards; as well as Apple's systematic removal of its usage from its own paeripihals from using FW400. From not including the cables with the iPods, to not allowing them to sync, to not allowing them to charge the device at all with new iPods.
1) If FireWire is "obsolete" today, why wasn't it obsolete two or more years ago when Apple was still promoting its virtues? It seems nothing really has changed in that time frame that would now suddenly cause FireWire to be obsolete.
FW400 was borderline 2 years ago.
FW800 is borderline today.
2 years is a long time. What made FW400 obsolete today? eSATA is more common (needs to be in the MBP really), USB2 video cams are more common, NAS are more common in homes and 802.11N.
With up to a TB available via 802.11N on Time Capsule you don't need to be tethered via cable except when you need a lot of speed. In which case gigE is faster then FW400.
The biggest loss for FW400 for MOST folks is for connecting to FW based video cams.
2) If FireWire really is obsolete, why did Apple expend the effort to intentionally build it into the new-from-the-ground-up MacBook Pro, especially considering there is no native support on the nVidia chipset?
FW800 is borderline. The MBP lost its FW400 port.
Well said. To add to your comments.
If FireWire is obsolete technology than why does every single external hard drive sold in Apple retail stores still have this obsolete port on them (just checked the Buffalo, NY store)? Its not a obsolete technology by any stretch...
Sure is obsolete.
1) Apple's crappy USB drivers are somewhat less crappy than before. Seagate explains this is why their crappy FW400 implementation works no faster than their USB2 implementation.
Just because you have FW400 on a drive no longer means it works any faster than on USB2.
http://www.macworld.com/article/1318...onetouch4.html
2) External drives today should be eSATA for performance and Apple is behind by using FW. Apple's only saving grace is the expresscard on the MBP.
The only thing that FW400 ISN'T obsolete for is (older) video and pro-audio.
Is that the compromise that needed to be made though?
I would say what's more important FW800 or Gigabit ethernet? The answer IMO is FW800. Ethernet can be supported via a USB adaptor. By contrast you can't get the benefit of FW800 from an adaptor.
GigE over USB is pointless.
I'd MUCH rather have GigE than FW800 if I could only have one. 1394c (Firewire S800T aka FW on RJ45) is only theoretical at this point and IP over FW is essentially dead since MS killed support on Vista. Likewise 1394b (FW800) is not supported in Vista despite promises to the contrary.
So FW800 is essentially dead as well. I'd rather buy a new camera than give up the ability to connect to a network at wire speeds.
Not because of the lack of Firewire, but because of the lack of USB3, which we know darn well is coming, the imminent arrival of Intel's Nehalem architecture, which is supposed to leave their current chips in the dust, and the imminent arrival of Snow Leopard, which I don't want to have to turn right around and buy retail.
The absence of Firewire is unfortunate, but inevitable. I was lucky enough to time my hardware transitions so I went from being mildly inconvenienced by not having it, to having it and seldom using it, to hardly ever using it. If the luck of the draw didn't treat some of you as well, I feel your pain, but Apple tried to push Firewire, it didn't take, it's time to admit it and move on. (I loved my Betamax VCR, too.)
I absolutely will buy one of the new MacBooks when they're Nehalem, with Snow Leopard and USB3, though. Reading a lot of complaining on all these forums about Apple laptops not being as dead solid reliable as they used to be, most of the problems sound like they can be attributed to broken connections and circuit-board traces due to case flex, as all the features have gotten smaller and more delicate. (And remember that this lead-free solder they have to use now is no damn good.)
Apple has been getting all these failed machines back and undoubtedly analyzing the Hell out of them, trying to figure out why they've been failing. This much more rigid case is their answer. It sounds to me as if it will work, but a year from now we'll know better. Meanwhile, I'm buying the MacBook that was absolutely current just a week ago, except to get a Superdrive then, you had to pay $1300. Now it's $1000. Sold! And it still has a Firewire port. A year from now, when I get my new MacBook, I can still use it for my Firewire-related needs (if any.)
I can't wait! These new 'books look fantastic.
It's likely that Firewire was mentioned in an episode or two that preceded 2008, because it's so useful--or was, anyway. So perhaps subsequent episodes didn't harp on it again.
GigE over USB is pointless.
I'd MUCH rather have GigE than FW800 if I could only have one.
I'd rather buy a new camera than give up the ability to connect to a network at wire speeds.
But network speeds are much slower anyway. Assuming you do have network devices that support the full Gigabit bandwidth and the target machine does too (this isn't the case for a lot of people), your maximum transfer rate is the read/write speed of your internal drive. A laptop 5400 gets about 20MB/s. A 7200 gets around 30MB/s.
Full Gig-E speed is 125MB/s so the majority of people aren't using bandwidth anywhere near the capacity. A USB2 port gives you 60MB/s, which is more than enough. The adaptors say that you get full Gig-E speeds. They will mean that you won't actually notice the difference in pretty much every circumstance.
FW on the other hand has benefits due to the architecture that can't be replicated with an adaptor.
On the principle of negatively affecting the least amount of users and given that laptop users are more likely to use wifi and given that there are adaptors for ethernet, I still think the best choice would have been to use firewire instead.
one answer to all our problems is to buy a MBP but it's not a go-er for many of us who want a cheaper, small form laptop that's actually an upgrade from the plastimac of last year. So how about looking at some other solutions?
I work in broadcast but mostly editing and compiling reports for the web. I'm not about to spend a lot of money on a new expensive camera - I've got a £1200 Sony A1 (firewire only for video). Most USB cameras are hard drive based and aren't specced up for anything very serious (the Sony A1, for instance, has XLR mic fittings which I need to use) whereas standard cameras have 3.5mm jacks which die a death pretty quickly but I got to thinking that there must be another solution.
So I've been looking at ways to get back functionality despite lack of firewire support on the new macbook. I got to thinking about shooting DV on one (expensive camera) and then ingesting it using a different camera:
I've got an old, cheap (£120) Sony Dv camera (HC24E) which supports streaming/capture over USB - but with two caveats:
1. Low res WMV files are created.
2. yup, you guessed it... only over Windows OS.
So, I've installed XP with Bootcamp and am now ingesting via that, saving off the (admittedly low res) wmv files and then pulling them back into OS X and, eventually, can start using them again in FCP.
It is an incredibly long winded solution thanks to lack of support on the Sony/OS X front for the USB side of the camera but at least it's cheap and it means I don't have to carry another PC based laptop and then start shuttling files between them both. Perhaps I could get it working via parallels or Crossover (but I think I'd drop hundreds of frames)? If we could find a cheap/free DV stream ingest that would work with USB it could make it easier? I haven't found one that doesn't require FW yet but I'm looking...
As an aside - the guys in the Apple Stores don't seem particularly happy either - I was in the Liverpool branch at the weekend and the team said that while sales were going well they were getting loads of complaints about FW (and, yup, they're still selling FW only devices in store). As one of the guys said "nice one Steve, thanks for dropping that on us".
Has anyone else got any solutions? - obviously we seem to be realising that a £5 cable from eBay is not going to be the answer and the promised multi-platform interfaces of the past have so far failed to come to market.
Sorry to the audio guys - you seem to be having a very tough time of it - but can't we start finding solutions to Apple's mistakes?
all the best